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Hard to believe a credibly company would use pages for any design work and send off a PDF from pages for print. I've been in graphic design for years, its my profession (photography second) and never have i seen anyone use pages or ms word for actual print. All of it has always been either collected for output via quark, indesign or a simple PDF file (sometimes AI depending on the printers). Does pages even allow any advanced controls before outputting to PDF? Does it handle bleeds, trapping, etc?

Its not impossible to use pages, but from a graphic designers POV, assuming youre serious, using pages is the absolute most amateur method ive ever heard.

I agree with you. I would never use Pages for actual graphic design work. That app is geared for the low-end users who want 'quick' results. Judging from what this person says, he's using amateur methods. I would use InDesign or Quark for high end results if the project calls for it.

But it sounds like he's selling himself "cheaply" to his clients in terms of 'spec work'. I won't get into this because people on here won't know what it's about, but you do.
 
I'm a photographer. I see the iPad as useless, completely. Heres why;

1) No professional photographer, or even amateur would want to use Crayola Software to touch up photos before sending off to a publisher. This is why lightroom/photoshop is used.

2) The hardware specs on the iPad are far too poor for it to run anything usefull. All its good for is insignificant time wasting drivel, like that finger painting application. The iPad has no balls to play with high megapixel count images, or even RAW files, edit and work with layers, etc. The accuracy on every touchscreen laptop and tablet has been far too dodgey for it to be any good, as close cropping, masking, etc would prove to be as much fun as browsing the internet without flash (zing!).

There is so much blind/ignorant faith into this ipad, I'm having a really hard time accepting this reality that people are already treating it like its the second coming of christ, but then again, this is the apple occult.

One problem with that statement is that there are some 'lite' apps that are based on the professional software such as Autodesk Sketchbook Pro seen at: http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?siteID=123112&id=6848332

It has an iphone version of it which is quite nice but the full version for the Mac platform is fantastic. I have it and am pleased with it especially Painter 9.5 which still works great to this day. Very simple program that one uses with the wacom tablet and the results are stunning. I would never want to use my fingers to draw or paint because that is too "kindergarten". I don't know what Jobs was thinking but they need to add in pressure sensitivity on the iPad for stylus use.

Sketchbook Pro is far better than Brushes and I, for one, would not be surprised if Corel releases a tablet version of Painter.

Otherwise, Wacom's Cintiq and Intuos are the best tablets to use for graphic design and illustration use due to pressure sensitivity and accuracy.

On for other application use, I play traditional RPGs (Pathfinder or D&D) using old school pen and paper methods. However, using the iPad would be beneficial to store in all the gaming manuals and search for information, use a scalable map to move around minatures (3d polygons maybe), create and keep track of character sheets, and so on. But I prefer to use actual dice in my hands instead of digital :).

I know for a fact that there are similar apps to this for the iphone/itouch and would NOT be surprised if some of this migrates to the iPad.
 
Great, so buy a Dell. What's stopping you? Why b*tch and moan about Apple pricing if Dell better suits your needs? Seems there's an obvious solution here, but you'd rather just rant. :confused:
YOU BROUGHT IT UP. I was talking about the "trap" set by Apple by offering dirt cheap software that's only available for Mac, which locks you to the platform. You then went on a mostly unrelated rant about Office being expensive and cried no fair because PC fans (a group I don't belong to, which should be obvious from my signature) bitch about prices of Macs, but not about the prices of Microsoft's software products. I then explained the (bleeding obvious) difference between a Mac made from commodity PC components with known prices, and a software product that isn't. You then argued that aluminum, backlit keyboard and glass screen would explain the hefty price discrepancy, which it doesn't even begin to do.

Don't change the subject and blame me later.
 
That's what happens when you go from focusing on producing high priced boutique workstation computers to run of the mill easily copied iCrap. Every company that has gone down that route has upped revenue in the short run, but completely destroyed itself in the long run as cheaper competition obliterated them and their boutique status was eroded to the point it no longer mattered.

The perfect example; in the 70's, there were ten great organ manufacturers, and when the 80's came along with cheap competition from Casio and other Japanese keyboard manufacturers, the companies that tried to compete with them by lowering the quality of their line were utterly obliterated by the competition within a single decade. NONE of them survive today.

The ONLY organ manufacturers that survive today are the ones making product lines that START at $20,000 and go up from there to well over $100,000. And there are about half the number of top manufacturers, around five.

And NONE of them make cheap iToys for kiddies. That is why they survived, and every other company that went down the short run route of choosing quantity of sales over quality died. And quality is producing CUTTING EDGE workstations that feature CUTTING EDGE technologies like Blu-ray. And anything else people who can afford Adobe's $2500 Master Suite need, like Flash. And people who aren't getting it are taking their BIG BUCKS ELSEWHERE. Just like organ buyers in the 80's went with the companies with the most expensive cutting edge products.

Are there cheap keyboards being made today? Of course, and selling like iCrap. But the big organ makers that tried to make them to compete with Casio are DEAD.

I know recent hop ons to Apple via iCrap will never understand this, but the old guys around, they get it.

Apple really needs to split into two companies. One that makes the iCrap, that can boom and quickly go bust as stronger cheaper competition kills it, and the other the original Apple computer workstation company that will survive by giving people what they need and want AND THEN SOME and continuing to charge a premium for it.

NOT tell them what they need and don't need and try to ram it down their throats like a tinhorn megalomaniac dictator pumped up by VERY temporary sales of disposable iCrap.

Someone who would have given them workable authorable Blu-ray BEFORE it became a standard, to MAKE it the standard QUICKER.

But that only can come from someone with the vision to see what people need now, and not try to live in 2030 when everyone has iChips implanted in their brains running the iBrain OS with all applications from the cloud and downloading low-res movies that Apple WOULD call HD.

I say WOULD, because Apple the iCrap iToy manufacturer won't last beyond 2014 at the current rate of arrogance.

:apple:

Well done, sir. Agreed.
 
I think most folks (the consumers/families this is aimed at), won't understand what "lack of flash" means. Once they find out it doesn't let them browse the sites and play the games they are used too (FB and all that stuff)...they'll quickly lose interest and perhaps wonder why they paid $500. They could have a "proper" laptop for that price (and believe me...that's how they think).

Why would they be bothered about flash games when they have a huge app store full with games?
 
Why would they be bothered about flash games when they have a huge app store full with games?

Not to mention the fact that any flash game can be directly exported to an app and either given away or sold for the price of a can of soft drink?

Bear in mind that apple mobile users are a small a demographic, but building from the richest downwards.
 
Why would they be bothered about flash games when they have a huge app store full with games?
You've never been addicted to one particular game? They're all interchangeable? "But dad, I wanna play Quake!" "No problem son, there's this other game called 'Monster shooter' that looks almost the same."

Lots of talk about ad banners, games and intros that beg to be skipped, but little talk about...

- Flash based streaming video sites like ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, Hulu and fifty-twelve others around the world

- Flash based online stores and entire company sites, particularly popular with fashion companies for the rich and trendy

- Flash based e-learning programs for both kids and adults

Do you think all that stuff will be ported to HTML5 in 50 days time? By who? Using what? For what money? Wanting Flash to go away is one thing, but FFS be realistic about the timeframe. Apple has been trying to make Windows go away for decades. Still 95% to go worldwide.
 
Wow Apple really seems to be nervous.

Not only that they can't make Flash or BluRay work on their products also the pace of their competitors seems really to annoy them.

Being the only major smartphone company that lost market share in the holiday quarter also hurt them a lot I guess.

It's not that they are nervous (worst case scenario, Apple would still do a ******** of money with mobile devices) or that they can't. It's just that they are too arrogant to accept current reality.

Lots of talk about ad banners, games and intros that beg to be skipped, but little talk about...

As much as you people hate this, the truth is that flash is not only used for video streaming. It used for a lot of things on the web. Canvas and HTML5 might be able to do the same in the future, but the biggest problem right now is the difficulty of this compared to Flash AND the current authoring tools. As I said, Apple is just being too arrogant, people will not move to HTML5 overnight.
 
Do you think all that stuff will be ported to HTML5 in 50 days time? By who? Using what? For what money?

Some businesses will ignore it, some will change design or make apps.

A crisis is a dangerous opportunity after all.

And a goldmine for the designers that can build a decent flash converter.
 
When you are trying to change current reality - what do you expect?
Humility?
Timidity?
Modesty?
Realism. For instance, they could look at their own mobile platform that's been around for 3 years (iPhone / iPod Touch), sold at least 100 million, and has barely made a dent in Flash. Almost as many blue lego pieces now as it was in 2007. How many years do you think it will be before iPad has sold in iPhone volumes, and what makes you think that would trigger a move away from Flash any more than the iPhone did?
 
When you are trying to change current reality - what do you expect?
Humility?
Timidity?
Modesty?

No, I just expect interoperability to respected. Your so called revolution would be much bigger if you could accept the fact that interoperability is the reason why you have all the tech you currently have.
 
Realism. For instance, they could look at their own mobile platform that's been around for 3 years (iPhone / iPod Touch), sold at least 100 million, and has barely made a dent in Flash


The collary is that at least 100 million people are browsing the web on iphones and getting along fine without flash.

Flash on the web breaks down into 3 main flavours

  • Video - legit and illegal. There are alternative legit video solutions - youtube for example
  • Missing ads. This hurts noone but advertisers.
  • Truly creative flash websites - This accounts for maybe about 2% of all the web flash. This is indeed a pity.

Fortunately flash can export as an app so this minority of beautiful content can be passed on - with the benefit of having its icon footprint like a permanent advert on the screen.

Its not perfect, but then neither are the alternatives.
we make out choice.
 
Does YouTube have an alternative solution for catching up on TV shows? I didn't think so. You'll notice any protected content cannot currently be viewed in their HTML5 beta.
 
The collary is that at least 100 million people are browsing the web on iphones and getting along fine without flash.
It happens to be the case that a bunch of sites have made iPhone friendly versions (For the small screen). Does the iPad show up as a normal browser or a mobile one? Will we see iPad formatted sites (what is the most common resolution for web browsers/sites)?

Does YouTube have an alternative solution for catching up on TV shows? I didn't think so. You'll notice any protected content cannot currently be viewed in their HTML5 beta.
Nor can you do full screen...
 
Do you think all that stuff will be ported to HTML5 in 50 days time? By who? Using what? For what money? Wanting Flash to go away is one thing, but FFS be realistic about the timeframe. Apple has been trying to make Windows go away for decades. Still 95% to go worldwide.

The internet has been having technology transitions right from day 1. You'll have HTML 4 coexisting with HTML 5 coexisting with XHTML 1.0 (strict and transitional) coexisting with XHTML 1.1 coexisting with XML/XSLT with a load of legacy netscape,early IE browser specific tags thrown in to spice up the mix. HTML sites will come along in good time as the number of supporting browsers becomes favourable to it and as soon as the web designers have stopped crying into their hands over having to adjust to another set of technologies.
 
The internet has been having technology transitions right from day 1. You'll have HTML 4 coexisting with HTML 5 coexisting with XHTML 1.0 (strict and transitional) coexisting with XHTML 1.1 coexisting with XML/XSLT with a load of legacy netscape,early IE browser specific tags thrown in to spice up the mix. HTML sites will come along in good time as the number of supporting browsers becomes favourable to it and as soon as the web designers have stopped crying into their hands over having to adjust to another set of technologies.
Yes yes, but that's not what I'm saying. This isn't just about simple porting of ad banners and Flash based navigation panes to HTML5, that stuff can be done in a jiffy. I'm talking about games, animated Flash cartoons, big e-learning productions and other complex content that requires a production environment as sophisticated as Flash. Forget the Flash plugin/player, that's at the browser end, I'm talking about Flash itself. It's up to version 11.0 (CS5) soon. When will there be HTML5/Canvas tools of that caliber and maturity? The people who produce the material are very spoiled at this point, they want their tweening and their layers and their effects, not some dodgy tools that take them back to FutureSplash from 1996 as far as the creation process is concerned (or worse, animating by coding). You're all talking about HTML5 as if all it takes is for the browsers to support it properly, but the content isn't going to come if there are no tools for its creation. It's the kind of tools you'd be looking to Adobe for, but they won't be in a hurry for obvious reasons.
 
Yes yes, but that's not what I'm saying. This isn't just about simple porting of ad banners and Flash based navigation panes to HTML5, that stuff can be done in a jiffy. I'm talking about games, animated Flash cartoons, big e-learning productions and other complex content that requires a production environment as sophisticated as Flash. Forget the Flash plugin/player, that's at the browser end, I'm talking about Flash itself. It's up to version 11.0 (CS5) soon. When will there be HTML5/Canvas tools of that caliber and maturity? The people who produce the material are very spoiled at this point, they want their tweening and their layers and their effects, not some dodgy tools that take them back to FutureSplash from 1996 as far as the creation process is concerned (or worse, animating by coding). You're all talking about HTML5 as if all it takes is for the browsers to support it properly, but the content isn't going to come if there are no tools for its creation. It's the kind of tools you'd be looking to Adobe for, but they won't be in a hurry for obvious reasons.
In my view it makes the web to a much more flexible media delivery platform, without giving any company propietary control over any of its technologies. Granted HTML5 doesn't do a magnificent job for games when compared to Flash and Shockwave and that's where Flash continues to be good, but I've always strongly objected to the use of Flash as a website delivery platform with no alternative offered as seems to happen quite a bit with the technology.

Back to Flash on the iPad. It's clear that Apple is attempting to create a walled garden for its own eBook activities. With their ever-increasing market presence in hardware, software and media distribution and continued efforts to lock out other vendors from their hardware, I wonder if there will be an anti-trust case for Apple to answer in the not-too-distant future?
 
In my view it makes the web to a much more flexible media delivery platform, without giving any company propietary control over any of its technologies. Granted HTML5 doesn't do a magnificent job for games when compared to Flash and Shockwave and that's where Flash continues to be good, but I've always strongly objected to the use of Flash as a website delivery platform with no alternative offered as seems to happen quite a bit with the technology.

It issue has not been whether or not flash is good... It's about it being needed and not realistic that people are going to up and switch for Apple. HTML5 is an alternative to flash... but does that mean we should all switch to HTML5 and have no alternative to that? Flash and HTML5 will likely exist side-by-side. Websites will continue to use whatever meets their needs the best. Apple is just chosing to limit their users to specific sites. That's all and there is no arguing with it really.

Back to Flash on the iPad. It's clear that Apple is attempting to create a walled garden for its own eBook activities. With their ever-increasing market presence in hardware, software and media distribution and continued efforts to lock out other vendors from their hardware, I wonder if there will be an anti-trust case for Apple to answer in the not-too-distant future?

Already has been. :D Pystar tried that.
 
It issue has not been whether or not flash is good... It's about it being needed and not realistic that people are going to up and switch for Apple. HTML5 is an alternative to flash... but does that mean we should all switch to HTML5 and have no alternative to that? Flash and HTML5 will likely exist side-by-side. Websites will continue to use whatever meets their needs the best. Apple is just chosing to limit their users to specific sites. That's all and there is no arguing with it really.
Flash will continue, it's already been pointed out that it still has more on HTML5 with regard to interactive games, but the most exciting thing about it is that it removes the leverage of Flash as pretty much the sole medium for web video distribution.


Already has been. :D Pystar tried that.
Funnily enough, Psytar's probably the weakest of the possible attacks on Apple in my view. The aspect I immediately think of is the position with iTunes and the iPod where if you buy another music player then you're locked out of iTunes and if you want to buy your music elsewhere then it's at least a big faff to get your music on your iPod. Each is reinforcing the other and they're both the dominant products in their sectors: paid media downloads and portable media players.
I think perhaps it's time that Apple were forced to deliver an iTunes API for other media players. They represent over 2/3 of the online music distribution industry over 25% of the entire music industry's sales.

I love their products, but Apple is getting too big and too strong.
 
I think perhaps it's time that Apple were forced to deliver an iTunes API for other media players. They represent over 2/3 of the online music distribution industry over 25% of the entire music industry's sales.

I love their products, but Apple is getting too big and too strong.

Oh no doubt! I'm not sure exactly what the rules are on Anti-trust, but I think that Apple has as much control of the MP3 industry (Software and Hardware) that Microsoft does! And Microsoft would get smacked so hard if they tried to bundle their next OS with ONLY M$ branded computers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antitrust#Dominance_and_monopoly

It sounds like Apple could be considered in violation should someone be able to successfully argue they have a market dominance... but I feel like that can't be too hard. Just use the slides that Jobs shows in his keynotes! He seems to be awfully proud of that. :p

It's a tricky thing but I feel like those to bennefit haven't made any attempt at this. What ever happened with Palm and the Pre? Did they try to make this case?
 
In my view it makes the web to a much more flexible media delivery platform, without giving any company propietary control over any of its technologies. Granted HTML5 doesn't do a magnificent job for games when compared to Flash and Shockwave and that's where Flash continues to be good, but I've always strongly objected to the use of Flash as a website delivery platform with no alternative offered as seems to happen quite a bit with the technology.
Right, but again... you're looking at it from a technology perspective, and a bit of a political one too. This may be true, but what good is an open standard if the creative tools are not there? Flash is a great environment to work in. Whether you're a developer or an animator, the possibilities are endless. In order for the content producers to give up Flash, there would have to be a production environment that's as good as or better than Flash, and the end result must look as good as or better than Flash. If people were crazy about open standards/platforms and were keen on not giving up control to one company, they would all flock to Linux and avoid Windows and OS X like the plague.

Also, once the rich media content leaves the Flash sandbox and becomes one with the HTML, how will you guard yourself against it? How will you block that content? How many minutes of battery time will your iPhone have when all those animated banners that used to show up as blue Lego pieces will now be an inescapable part of the HTML?
 
It sounds like Apple could be considered in violation should someone be able to successfully argue they have a market dominance... but I feel like that can't be too hard. Just use the slides that Jobs shows in his keynotes! He seems to be awfully proud of that. :p

It's a tricky thing but I feel like those to bennefit haven't made any attempt at this. What ever happened with Palm and the Pre? Did they try to make this case?

I'm surprised as well, but perhaps they think the time hasn't come yet. I'm sure it will come though.
 
Flash CS5 has a feature to turn a flash application into an iphone compatible app

I also saw a demo where they made a flash animation and turned into a HTML5 canvas animation. I'm not sure yet if you can take a game and convert it though.

Needless to say a lot of things can be converted easily. And I am sure there will be more programs after CS5 releases that can do more.
 
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