Last resort is a recall. All they need to do is make sure that calls are not being dropped. Primary role of the device is the phone functionality. If it's a hardware fault, you have limitations in what you can "fix".
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Steve Jobs denies iP4 reception issues!
- Thread starter rfbandit
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Last resort is a recall. All they need to do is make sure that calls are not being dropped. Primary role of the device is the phone functionality. If it's a hardware fault, you have limitations in what you can "fix".
I'm saying it seems to happen less in areas with a really great signal
I don't even think signal strength is the issue, I just think theres certain areas towers that might be prone.
I live in Central Florida. When I am in Melbourne, FL I can reproduce the antenna issue, BUT it has absolutely NO impact on my call quality or data speeds. The signal even goes down to zero bars, and yet the call quality remains the same and Safari browses just as fast.
However, when I go to Orlando (UCF area), I CANNOT reproduce the antenna issue at all no matter how hard I try, using the exact same phone.
Both places have strong 3G signals and very fast data speeds. So I don't think having a weak signal is the only explanation, must just have something to do with certain bands etc, and most likely has a lot to do with software issues.
I'm not convinced this is a hardware defect, rather a simple software error.
As has been stated and restated many times across many posts by many folks, just because you're not having the problems doesn't mean the problems don't exist.
Consider yourself fortunate, and according to the poll on the front page, still in the minority of those that have participated in it.
And as a matter of record, yes I am an engineer but with that said I'll add the disclaimer that it's not in radio antenna design and signal propagation. But with 3+ decades of Ham radio experience, building over 300 microwave antenna arrays, building Wi-Fi antennas from 3 dB to 36 dB in gain over the years, with two degrees, and a whole host of experience of working on, repairing, maintaining, and operating radio communications equipment, all I'm gonna say is this:
You're off your rocker by a significant degree if you state touching a microwave resonator, aka an antenna to laymen, has no effect on attenuation.
Yeah, stay tuned....
BTW: -78dbA (on table) and -116dbA in your hand (3G). But hey, it's not a hardware problem
Busted! The software issues has been pegged to iOS 4.0. Unless you're running jailbreak that doesn't exist yet you can't get the -dbA readings without running iOS 3.x or less.
The display has nothing to do with the software bug, either displayed as -dbA or 5 bars. The algorithm at hand is way below anything we can determine with what we see the phone tell us. it is a bug caused by releasing .0 hardware with .0 OS.
The OS will get fixed...I bet a nickel!
OK, here's how software could fix this issue.
The antenna (wave length) is a component of a tuned circuit (the iPhone receiving system), when someone touches the antenna (depending on how conductive each individuals skin surface is) this could effect the properties of the tuned circuit (ie change the induction value) which inturn could effect the signal strength etc. If you assume that the induction value (optimum value for max signal strength which is derived from the tuned circuit) should be a fixed value then any change to this (allowing for a tolerence range) could be adjusted ( + or -) in software thus maintaining an appropriate value needed to secure the best reception.
This is just a thought given I used to work with antennas and receiving circuits many years ago. Obviously without knowing any of the details of the iPhone inner workings this is just an educated guess.
I have to say I do not experience the problem with my iPhone here in the UK but maybe as I tend to have dry skin I am less conductive.
Raw headers don't prove anything at all. Anyone with a bit of technical knowledge can create email header junk just as any mail server would...
And of course, there is absolutely no way you would be able to verify them anyway.
The only way you are going to get any type of validation is to see the email for yourself in a mail client that has limited access to the backend... which I believe is already shown.
Kinda silly...
People just want the phone they have to work fully. iPhone 4 is an absolutely lovely device with a big flaw (or just to clarify, mine is). Sending it back before there's a chance of a fix isn't great advice.
Apparently, not by much:
On Table Top - No Contact
While Bridging Gap and Holding with Left Hand
As stated by Millah, this may have more to do with certain bands (800, 1900) and how the software interprets them.
I'll refrain from declaring design flaws until this discrepancy is clarified.
I have the same reception issues on a iPhone4 (I am left handed). Called Apple support Germany yesterday and told the supporter about the interrupted calls when holding the device in my left hand. He heard about that the first time and told me to stay in the line while he talks to another department. 10 minutes later he got back to me and told me that they know about this issue and that this would be a hardware issue and that I am eligible to get a hardware swap. As I have no Apple Care Protection Plan I had to pay 29 EUR to first get the new phone and then send the old one back. I could have chosen to send first my phone in, in which case I had nothing to pay, but in that case I wasnt't available for some days (no other phone here that eats micro sims). So I decided to call T-Mobile to have them replace the phone for free. And they told me that they also know about the issue and expect to have a decision about how to handle it on monday.
I've noticed I've been finding excuses to read articles and do other things on mine that really would make more sense on my iPad. This new display is indeed droolworthy.
Patents. The antenna design has been researched intensively and the feasible antenna constructions have been patented. Antenna design is one of the area in the Nokia / Apple patent mess. And antenna designs are not part of essential patents, there is no requirement for Nokia to license the technology to Apple at fair (or at any) cost.
So Apple can go back to 20y+ old designs (external antennas) or try to come up with something else. In this case a construction defective by design.
Apparently, not by much:
On Table Top - No Contact
While Bridging Gap and Holding with Left Hand
As stated by Millah, this may have more to do with certain bands (800, 1900) and how the software interprets them.
I'll refrain from declaring design flaws until this discrepancy is clarified.
You have consistent wifi. Want to try it again over 3G ????
I was on holiday so was unable to buy an iPhone 4 at launch. One of the first things I was going to do this week was to see if I could buy an iPhone 4 but after seeing the problem I won't be buying one.
Unfortunately I do hold a phone in my left hand (and I'm right handed) so this phone would end up being an expensive iPod Touch for me rather than a mobile phone.
A mobile phone should primarly be designed for making and receiving phone calls and clearly this phone doesn't in some cases.
I could put a case on it but I would prefer to use it without a case unless I see one I really like. The case would have to be designed so it wasn't bulky and didn't hide the nice looking design of the iPhone 4.
I am really suprised that the engineers let this happen. They should have known this would happen and if not surely this problem would have shown up in any testing.
I love Apple products but they slipped up with this phone unfortunately.
So... I wonder when the iPhone 4.1 or 5 comes out?
Unfortunately I do hold a phone in my left hand (and I'm right handed) so this phone would end up being an expensive iPod Touch for me rather than a mobile phone.
A mobile phone should primarly be designed for making and receiving phone calls and clearly this phone doesn't in some cases.
I could put a case on it but I would prefer to use it without a case unless I see one I really like. The case would have to be designed so it wasn't bulky and didn't hide the nice looking design of the iPhone 4.
I am really suprised that the engineers let this happen. They should have known this would happen and if not surely this problem would have shown up in any testing.
I love Apple products but they slipped up with this phone unfortunately.
So... I wonder when the iPhone 4.1 or 5 comes out?
Is it just me or did you use Wi-Fi for those tests since 3G speeds aren't going to get anywhere near that 10Mbps+ speeds you're showing.
I'm asking, seriously, no games, no BS, I'd like to see your specific results.
Disable Wi-Fi, disable GPS, disable Bluetooth (seems to be disabled already), to ensure that antenna (the one on the left side from the lower seam to just over the headphone jack) is taken completely out of the equation, and retest, if you please. Only 3G matters here.
Apparently, not by much:
On Table Top - No Contact
While Bridging Gap and Holding with Left Hand
As stated by Millah, this may have more to do with certain bands (800, 1900) and how the software interprets them.
I'll refrain from declaring design flaws until this discrepancy is clarified.
You're on wifi.
Since you have done all this research, super duper CEO, can you point us where did Nokia patented this kind of Antennas you imply here?
Nokia has every reason to fear Apple, but responding with legal actions isn't gonna help them at all. They had almost one decade to prove that their ****** Symbian initiative eventually will work and they failed.
Time for Apple to step over and Nokia can watch how things are done.
But, show us where did Nokia invented those antennas?
What if someone wants to call that person but they have no signal because of where their hand is?
I, too, suspect that all phones are susceptible to the issue and that there is NOT simply a bad batch of phones this happens to.
As I posted earlier in other threads (search through my most recent posts), I was not able to reproduce this issue. That was at my home. Doesn't budge by a single bar. So I figured I was one of the lucky ones who got a "working" phone.
In the same small rural college town of about 20K people, at my office, which can't be more than 2 miles from my house as the crow flies, I tried to demonstrate this to my co-worker on Friday who also has an iPhone 4 but who suffers from the problem, and found that my phone REACTED THE SAME WAY HIS DID, going from 5 bars to 1 in less than a minute. I was shocked. I had tried this in my home MULTIPLE times across multiple days, using my hands and various metal objects, and the signal never budged.
So I think this is a combination of the phone's antenna design plus the configuration of the nearby towers. Not sure where the different ATT towers are in my area, but it seems likely that there is SOME difference (and would make the most sense if that difference turned out to be the band of transmission; like, say, what if the phone was asymptomatic when talking to 850MHz, but demonstrated the problem with 1900MHz?).
So, the reason that some people have seen the problem and others haven't has nothing to do with a bad batch of phones, or anything like that. There are other factors involved, and these factors include location-specific ones. My wager is that if one iPhone 4 in a given place has the issue, all other iPhone 4s in the immediate vicinity will also show symptoms, even if they never have before.
If this can be fixed by software, count me in amongst those who say they will be almighty surprised. If Apple DOES manage to counteract the problem with an update, I will be very curious to know exactly what it is doing, but I'm pretty sure that we can count on Apple not telling us...
-- Nathan
As I posted earlier in other threads (search through my most recent posts), I was not able to reproduce this issue. That was at my home. Doesn't budge by a single bar. So I figured I was one of the lucky ones who got a "working" phone.
In the same small rural college town of about 20K people, at my office, which can't be more than 2 miles from my house as the crow flies, I tried to demonstrate this to my co-worker on Friday who also has an iPhone 4 but who suffers from the problem, and found that my phone REACTED THE SAME WAY HIS DID, going from 5 bars to 1 in less than a minute. I was shocked. I had tried this in my home MULTIPLE times across multiple days, using my hands and various metal objects, and the signal never budged.
So I think this is a combination of the phone's antenna design plus the configuration of the nearby towers. Not sure where the different ATT towers are in my area, but it seems likely that there is SOME difference (and would make the most sense if that difference turned out to be the band of transmission; like, say, what if the phone was asymptomatic when talking to 850MHz, but demonstrated the problem with 1900MHz?).
So, the reason that some people have seen the problem and others haven't has nothing to do with a bad batch of phones, or anything like that. There are other factors involved, and these factors include location-specific ones. My wager is that if one iPhone 4 in a given place has the issue, all other iPhone 4s in the immediate vicinity will also show symptoms, even if they never have before.
If this can be fixed by software, count me in amongst those who say they will be almighty surprised. If Apple DOES manage to counteract the problem with an update, I will be very curious to know exactly what it is doing, but I'm pretty sure that we can count on Apple not telling us...
-- Nathan
Could have something to do with the baseband not responding correctly to the drop in signal. Baseband can be calibrated using software so I think that's what he is referring to.
I was thinking about this earlier today as I was working with some Apps and the phone was fluctuating between 0 bars and No Service...
And of course as quickly as I stopped 'man-handling' it, signal returned.
If you happen to be in an area where the signal is beyond awesome, the phone might not exhibit the problem. When this issue was emerging some days ago, some suggested it was an issue with iOS4 and insisted the exact same phenomenon occurs on 3G/3GS with iOS4 installed, so I tried it with my 3G. I tried to block, double-block and triple block the signal in all sorts of ways by wrapping both hands tightly around the antenna area, squeezing it between my legs etc, but I absolutely couldn't make it go down even from 5 bars to 4. But that's how it's always been in my apartment on any phones, Apple or other, the signal here is beyond awesome.
The belief in the potential for it being related to frequencies is interesting and could prove to become fixable with a firmware update to address how the phone handles attaching itself to any given cell site.
As each site is unique, and since we all know how Apple is claiming that the phone should be able - because of design and programming - decide which cell site offers the more reliable connection over a stronger one, this most definitely could be resolved in that manner.
That could be and most likely is the software issue, as we've all come to understand it.
But that's just the one side of the dual issue most of us are having: it doesn't address the bridging of the two antennas which is the hardware issue and the one I suffer from most dramatically - I can cause the phone to simply disconnect from the cellular network entirely with a fingertip, doesn't take a full on "Vulcan Death Grip" or anything close to it, just the tip of a finger and I'm so close to a cell site I could almost fry a CD with it.
Ok, that last bit was a stretch but I am within about 750 feet of the antenna array on the AT&T building here in downtown Vegas (this stuff is explained in my sig link) which should definitely qualify as a very strong if not excessively strong signal area and yet I can still lose it all with the touch of a finger.
I'm wondering if, when the phone is in a relatively stationary position - and by this I mean you're in the same location physically, like your house, your property, etc. and not the phone sitting dead center of your desktop, etc. - that it'll stick to the first cell site it attaches/associates with and won't budge, and when you grip it (not the bridging thing) the attenuation change isn't enough to trigger it to switch frequencies...
The more I think about it right now the more I'm leaning towards that possibility.
When the phone associates with a given cell site, as long as the phone remains relatively stationary (meaning the same general location and not actively mobile which would trigger the switchover to another physical cell site) it should stay associated and not need to do any "channel hopping," ever, as long as the signal remains at a given level.
Now, if in that situation we cause attenuation by gripping it, holding it, touching it, whatever because of the antenna band contact or close proximity (since you can put it inside a case and negate the skin-on-metal contact) the phone should switch frequencies as required to maintain a given level of service, but NOT switch cell sites.
The software "bug" we could be experiencing is because it's NOT switching frequencies or even cell sites, it's sticking on that associated site on the assigned frequency and it just degrades as the attenuation remains in place - remove the attenuation and the signal (because it hasn't changed frequencies or cell sites) suddenly spikes right back to life.
There are countless videos out there now where that happens, the change in signal and data reception/transmission is literally instant, as if a switch had been thrown.
Yeah, this is my theory now: For those of us experiencing this problem the issue is that currently the phone, when the signal is degraded by attenuation to any significant degree, is NOT changing frequencies to accommodate the attenuation, nor is it switching cell sites, as long as the phone believes that the signal it locked on to is reliable enough to not trigger some threshold programmed in that says "Ok, that signal is crap, let's hop for something better."
That could be it... that's what I'll stick with till something better comes along, that the phone simply isn't adjusting itself based on a given threshold of signal quality. The "lag" thing I've seen mentioned could end up being part of this as well since the hand-off from frequency to frequency as well as site to site only has a given period of time to go in and get accepted or... you get Jack Squat© as a result.
Now if they can just resolve the bridging/shorting issue with a firmware update that's getting somewhere...
As each site is unique, and since we all know how Apple is claiming that the phone should be able - because of design and programming - decide which cell site offers the more reliable connection over a stronger one, this most definitely could be resolved in that manner.
That could be and most likely is the software issue, as we've all come to understand it.
But that's just the one side of the dual issue most of us are having: it doesn't address the bridging of the two antennas which is the hardware issue and the one I suffer from most dramatically - I can cause the phone to simply disconnect from the cellular network entirely with a fingertip, doesn't take a full on "Vulcan Death Grip" or anything close to it, just the tip of a finger and I'm so close to a cell site I could almost fry a CD with it.
Ok, that last bit was a stretch but I am within about 750 feet of the antenna array on the AT&T building here in downtown Vegas (this stuff is explained in my sig link) which should definitely qualify as a very strong if not excessively strong signal area and yet I can still lose it all with the touch of a finger.
I'm wondering if, when the phone is in a relatively stationary position - and by this I mean you're in the same location physically, like your house, your property, etc. and not the phone sitting dead center of your desktop, etc. - that it'll stick to the first cell site it attaches/associates with and won't budge, and when you grip it (not the bridging thing) the attenuation change isn't enough to trigger it to switch frequencies...
The more I think about it right now the more I'm leaning towards that possibility.
When the phone associates with a given cell site, as long as the phone remains relatively stationary (meaning the same general location and not actively mobile which would trigger the switchover to another physical cell site) it should stay associated and not need to do any "channel hopping," ever, as long as the signal remains at a given level.
Now, if in that situation we cause attenuation by gripping it, holding it, touching it, whatever because of the antenna band contact or close proximity (since you can put it inside a case and negate the skin-on-metal contact) the phone should switch frequencies as required to maintain a given level of service, but NOT switch cell sites.
The software "bug" we could be experiencing is because it's NOT switching frequencies or even cell sites, it's sticking on that associated site on the assigned frequency and it just degrades as the attenuation remains in place - remove the attenuation and the signal (because it hasn't changed frequencies or cell sites) suddenly spikes right back to life.
There are countless videos out there now where that happens, the change in signal and data reception/transmission is literally instant, as if a switch had been thrown.
Yeah, this is my theory now: For those of us experiencing this problem the issue is that currently the phone, when the signal is degraded by attenuation to any significant degree, is NOT changing frequencies to accommodate the attenuation, nor is it switching cell sites, as long as the phone believes that the signal it locked on to is reliable enough to not trigger some threshold programmed in that says "Ok, that signal is crap, let's hop for something better."
That could be it... that's what I'll stick with till something better comes along, that the phone simply isn't adjusting itself based on a given threshold of signal quality. The "lag" thing I've seen mentioned could end up being part of this as well since the hand-off from frequency to frequency as well as site to site only has a given period of time to go in and get accepted or... you get Jack Squat© as a result.
Now if they can just resolve the bridging/shorting issue with a firmware update that's getting somewhere...