Steve Jobs on iOS Location Issue: 'We Don't Track Anyone'

[KnightWRX]

So if this e-mail is legit, Steve managed once again to deflect the real issue. The real issue is not "Apple is tracking user!", it's that the file exists, contains full historical data, is backed up and restore to a new device if you opt to do that.

The file needs to be pruned once in a while and it doesn't require getting backed up at all. It should not contain more than a few weeks if even that of data.

Thank you Steve for once again not addressing the issue and just trying to deflect it so that Apple doesn't have to deal with it.

 

[QuarterSwede]

All of their info on me is wrong.

It couldn't even find me or my email address. Useless, which in this case is a good thing.

So if this e-mail is legit, Steve managed once again to deflect the real issue. The real issue is not "Apple is tracking user!", it's that the file exists, contains full historical data, is backed up and restore to a new device if you opt to do that.

The file needs to be pruned once in a while and it doesn't require getting backed up at all. It should not contain more than a few weeks if even that of data.

Thank you Steve for once again not addressing the issue and just trying to deflect it so that Apple doesn't have to deal with it.

Jobs did answer the guys question though. He never asked why it was never purged unfortunately.

 

[Ommid]

So if this e-mail is legit, Steve managed once again to deflect the real issue. The real issue is not "Apple is tracking user!", it's that the file exists, contains full historical data, is backed up and restore to a new device if you opt to do that.

The file needs to be pruned once in a while and it doesn't require getting backed up at all. It should not contain more than a few weeks if even that of data.

Thank you Steve for once again not addressing the issue and just trying to deflect it so that Apple doesn't have to deal with it.

You tell him Knight! I bet he just read that post too.

 

[benpatient]

The problem is, folks, that Apple CAN track you. Maybe they aren't doing it.

But they CAN.

So in a couple weeks or months or whatever, you're going to read about someone who was implicated in a terrorist plot or something because they subpoenaed Apple for the tracking history on the phone. Then they figure out that the guy wasn't a terrorist, but he DID spend a lot of time at that adult bookstore a couple of towns over, and oh yeah, what about all these trips you took to such-and-such.

Enterprising parents are going to be really excited to track their kids' every move.

Someone's going to sneak some code into an app that pulls all of the unencrypted data from your phone and quietly sends it to a server somewhere. Apple will block that app, but the important code will end up in the jailbroken app store all over the place, and all these helpful or silly looking free apps will suddenly be malicious. If the .db were encrypted, none of that could happen. But it's basically plaintext.

Even though he's said it's not an issue, expect Steve to announce shortly that the file will be encrypted starting with the next iOS update.

 

[immunezone]

Love For The iPhone Obviously Creates Gullible Geese!!

Are you people really this naive? Do you just love your iPhone to death?

Of course you are tracked!!! Of course S.J.'s says no!! You are tracked through

all cell phone's. iPhone just makes this easier. I am sure before the iPhone

was approved by the FCC this was something they had to except or no iPhone.

Why can't we think for ourselves? Do we just ignore vital pieces of info like this

because we just love these material gadgets so so much.

Last word, yes we are always tracked through cell phones, iPhone's, email and

probably thousands of other ways. Be smart if you do not want to be tracked.

You can still own your little fancy gadgets if you want. Just only let them

track what you want them to. If you do something not so legal, leave the

phone at home, remove sim card, turn off, or just use you brain dammit.

ImmuneZone

 

[gnasher729]

I didn't say it was the problem. Just a problem which is more important than, "oh my, someone knew I was vacationing at Disney World."

I say it's not _a problem_. Do you think an abusive spouse needs to look at someone's phone data for an excuse to get abusive?

Are you people really this naive? Do you just love your iPhone to death?

Very clever, except that a file _on your phone_ doesn't help Apple tracking anyone, so if they wanted to track you, there wouldn't be evidence, and there would certainly not be this file lying around in plain sight.

 

[Eigtball]

My first post on Macrumors. My take is since I am on the Internet, in the phone book, on a tax roll then I have to admit that my location/info is going to be tracked in some way.

I'm on groupon for christs sake, directed "ads" telling them I'm in a specific city. It's not like apple is going to sell my info, their privacy policy states that, and I am sure Mr. Jobs doesn't care where I am.

The media loves sensations.

 

[JAT]

The problem is, folks, that Apple CAN track you. Maybe they aren't doing it.

But they CAN.

So in a couple weeks or months or whatever, you're going to read about someone who was implicated in a terrorist plot or something because they subpoenaed Apple for the tracking history on the phone. Then they figure out that the guy wasn't a terrorist, but he DID spend a lot of time at that adult bookstore a couple of towns over, and oh yeah, what about all these trips you took to such-and-such.

Enterprising parents are going to be really excited to track their kids' every move.

You need to learn more about this before mouthing off. First, parents can already do that. (and should) Look up AT&T FamilyMap, for instance. Second, this particular file does not actually do what you think, read my earlier post and others explaining it. Third, the paranoid police checking you described is up to a judge. Yes, they can order pretty much anything, but a judge has to do it. Maybe that's what you should be paranoid about.

 

[QuarterSwede]

I say it's not _a problem_. Do you think an abusive spouse needs to look at someone's phone data for an excuse to get abusive?

They don't need an excuse but it could it could easily escalate from beating them to killing them. It's a definite problem especially when you're talking about someone who is willing to do that to someone else anyway. They aren't in a normal mental state to begin with. To say it isn't a problem at all is to be blind.

 

[bandalay]

So let me get this straight.

The closest cell tower to my home is 5 blocks away. How is this going to help anyone pinpoint where I live?

Wouldn't it be easier to just look at my address book on the stolen device?

This is the dumbest thing evah...

 

[QuarterSwede]

The closest cell tower to my home is 5 blocks away. How is this going to help anyone pinpoint where I live?

Wouldn't it be easier to just look at my address book on the stolen device?

This is the dumbest thing evah...

The tool can playback where you travel so someone could see what route you take to work and how regularly you go. It's a lot more dangerous than you think.

 

[torbjoern]

The closest cell tower to my home is 5 blocks away. How is this going to help anyone pinpoint where I live?

Wouldn't it be easier to just look at my address book on the stolen device?

This is the dumbest thing evah...

How about if they already know where you live, and then figure out exactly what hours you won't be at home? I hope your wife and daughter know how to use a gun...

 

[HankScorpio]

Has anyone checked that this file isn't simply like your cookies from Safari, but instead from Maps? If you open Maps and asked it to find you it'll likely store the data and then if you leave maps running the background it'll likely keep storing that data. Surely no more dangerous than the cookies and Internet history on your phone. You're not surprised your phone logs your web history are you?

I took a look at my data and it was of such a poor quality I do not believe it would be of use to any one. The majority of markers were in places I've never been!

Like many others have pointed out I would much more concerned about the other 'tracking' of you and your data - this seems pretty low key to me and kind of expected.

 

[MacMan86]

The tool can playback where you travel so someone could see what route you take to work and how regularly you go. It's a lot more dangerous than you think.

And then what? If they've got my iPhone, they've got my home address (in multiple places: Address Book, saved as 'Home' in my sat nav app…) they'll know where I work (phone numbers/Linked In/Facebook). It'd easier for someone to watch me get in my car in the morning and follow me to work than dig around on my phone and try to work out the route from the very inaccurate database. The file is all about coarse location after all - it's not accurate enough to know which road you turned down.

And anyway - what can someone do with my route to work that is more dangerous than them knowing my home and work address?

 

[Stridder44]

HA. Whoever sent that email to Jobs has no idea what their talking about. Android absolutely tracks your movements, even more so than anything that's being discussed regarding iOS.

 

[MacMan86]

Has anyone checked that this file isn't simply like your cookies from Safari, but instead from Maps? If you open Maps and asked it to find you it'll likely store the data and then if you leave maps running the background it'll likely keep storing that data. Surely no more dangerous than the cookies and Internet history on your phone.

I took a look at my data and it was of such a poor quality I do not believe it would have been of use to any one. The majority of markers were in places I've never been!

Like many other have pointed out I would much more concerned about the other 'tracking' of you and your data - this seems pretty low key to me and kind of expected.

It's not that because there is more data being stored than would be stored by one app alone. Maps doesn't appear to run in the background as well

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

All this talk about Ads and Android.

I have one program that has Ads. Angry Birds. Other than that I haven't received any other unwanted ads, spam email, or anything else.

 

[samcraig]

1) the issue isn't the tracking as much as it's the fact that the database is not only easily accessible, but that it's retained via backups/itunes/etc and can be accessed pretty "easily"

2) There's nothing in that email of value. Much like when Steve wrote to me and told me that there was "no issue" with my iPhone 4 and the antenna.

Maybe if Consumer Reports writes up Apple and states that the iPad can no longer be recommended because of the database issue, Apple will actually acknowledge that it's an issue....

 

[MacMan86]

How about if they already know where you live, and then figure out exactly what hours you won't be at home? I hope your wife and daughter know how to use a gun...

Much easier to just park around the corner and use a pair of binoculars. A couple of days of surveillance and they've sussed out your habits. When it's that easy and has been used for so many years, why go to the extra trouble of getting hold of your phone (much more difficult than passively watching) and then hoping there's enough data there to work out the same habits?

It's a huge leap of the imagination to think people will be using this instead of the old fashioned methods. Neither you nor I think like a criminal thinks. A criminal would probably laugh at your suggestion.

 

[torbjoern]

Much easier to just park around the corner and use a pair of binoculars. A couple of days of surveillance an they've sussed out your habits. When it's that easy and has been used for so many years, why go to the extra trouble of getting hold of your phone (much more difficult than passively watching) and then hoping there's enough data there to work out the same habits?

It's a huge leap of the imagination to think people will be using this instead of the old fashioned methods. Neither you nor I think like a criminal thinks. A criminal would probably laugh at your suggestion.

Maybe a couple of days will be enough, maybe it won't. But it's a huge leap from there to catching several weeks or even months of location data.

 

[radiohead14]

All this talk about Ads and Android.

I have one program that has Ads. Angry Birds. Other than that I haven't received any other unwanted ads, spam email, or anything else.

right, it's even part of the initial setup with android asking if you want location turned on. even when opening maps, there's a pop up asking the user if they would like location to be turned on if they want more results. it just doesn't turn on by itself.. not sure where people are getting the impression that the user doesn't have a choice in this.

 

[MacMan86]

Maybe a couple of days will be enough, maybe it won't. But it's a huge leap from there to catching several weeks or even months of location data.

Irrespective of the fact that most of the data will simply be duplicated (5 return journeys almost exactly the same every week for a lot of people), would anyone really care where I was 6 months ago? If this data is so valuable, why aren't there people watching my movements right now? It's very unlikely that anyone on these forums has a life interesting enough to be worthy of someone following us. It's very easy to make up hypothetical scenarios - but they're just not happening.

This file has been known about for years, there's a book called 'iOS Forensic Analysis' - Amazon Link which you could buy off the shelf and talks about this file amongst other things - this isn't a new discovery. That book is 372 pages long - there are plenty of other ways an iPhone, or indeed any phone could be forensically rich.

If someone has the time, money and resources to find out information about you then they can. To think that this file is going to unleash either a whole wave of crime or even a new type of crime is just foolish.

 

[gnasher729]

The tool can playback where you travel so someone could see what route you take to work and how regularly you go. It's a lot more dangerous than you think.

Burglars would just check if there is a car parked in front of the house. And if there is a car parked, they go to my neighbour's house. Look, you are living in a phantasy land. No criminal goes and steals an iPhone from me in order to find out when I go to work and come back so they know when to go to my house and steal my iPhone - oh sorry, they got that already.

They don't need an excuse but it could it could easily escalate from beating them to killing them. It's a definite problem especially when you're talking about someone who is willing to do that to someone else anyway. They aren't in a normal mental state to begin with. To say it isn't a problem at all is to be blind.

Well, if someone has an abusive spouse who is willing to kill them eventually, they should better never go to MacDonalds, because they might get suspected to have an affair with old Ronald McDonald and get killed for it. Ok, so they buy an Android phone instead of an iPhone. Maybe that nutter spouse-killer-to-be is a mad Apple fan and kills them for buying an Android phone. Surely it is irresponsible of Google to make any phones when someone could get killed for buying one.

If you are concerned about security risks, think about some real risks. I actually pointed out one _real_ risk, not caused by any phones, but by Google's database which always anyone access to its database of router locations.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

right, it's even part of the initial setup with android asking if you want location turned on. even when opening maps, there's a pop up asking the user if they would like location to be turned on if they want more results. it just doesn't turn on by itself.. not sure where people are getting the impression that the user doesn't have a choice in this.

Exactly. I have it turned off by default but if I need it, I push the button to enable it, it takes literally a second to enable, and than disable when I am done.

 

[samcraig]

I thought of the 3rd issue.

How is it that Apple and ATT can lock onto my iPhone and track my every movement yet I can't lock onto ATT and make a call?