Steve Jobs on iOS Location Issue: 'We Don't Track Anyone'

[kdarling]

The closest cell tower to my home is 5 blocks away. How is this going to help anyone pinpoint where I live?

Who says they want to know where you live?

Perhaps it's enough for your employer to know that you spent some time at a nearby small town after midnite, where the only place open that late is a swingers bar.

My first post on Macrumors. My take is since I am on the Internet, in the phone book, on a tax roll then I have to admit that my location/info is going to be tracked in some way.

Trackable, but not necessary actually tracked. That is the big difference.

I can drive across the USA and not be tracked, if I wished.

It's not like apple is going to sell my info, their privacy policy states that, and I am sure Mr. Jobs doesn't care where I am.

Apple doesn't sell info with your name on it, but they certainly sell it anonymously. That's how they make their money off their iAds service.

According to people who've used it, they can redirect the ad server based on our sex, age, income, location, music and app interests, and supposedly they even guess sexual orientation, religion, political view and other factors based on what we've bought from their various iTunes stores.

Doesn't that make us feel special. Especially if our Mother is looking over our shoulder at our new iDevice app when an "interesting" ad shows up.

 

[bpaluzzi]

I thought of the 3rd issue.

How is it that Apple and ATT can lock onto my iPhone and track my every movement yet I can't lock onto ATT and make a call?

Wow, that would be an awesome joke, except that both parts are false. Funny guy.

 

[samcraig]

Wow, that would be an awesome joke, except that both parts are false. Funny guy.

are they? And who elected you arbiter of what was funny or not? Just asking...

 

[MacMan86]

...Perhaps it's enough for your employer to know that you spent some time at a nearby small town after midnite, where the only place open that late is a swingers bar...

Do you trust your employer so little that you would suspect them of routinely digging through your phone to find this kind of data? I don't think I could work at a company if I didn't trust them not to do that.

If you've got a company iPhone and you're worried, don't sync it to your work PC, sync it to your home PC (you'd probably be doing that already as that's where your music is likely to be). If you're not syncing it at work, your company would need to have physical access to your phone. How often do you hand over your phone to them? If it worried you so much, you could wipe it before handing it over.

 

[macUser2007]

... Jobs reportedly responded, turning the tables by claiming both that Apple does not track users and that Android does while referring to the information about iOS shared in the media as "false"....

Right....

And Flash doesn't work on mobiles (it does on all new Androids, perfectly).

And Java is dead.

And nobody reads anymore.

So brief, yet so much BS.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Right....

And Flash doesn't work on mobiles (it does on all new Androids, perfectly).

And Java is dead.

And nobody reads anymore.

So brief, yet so much BS.

I love how Steves new response is... Android did it first!

I have the ability to opt out though with Android.

 

[bpaluzzi]

Right....
And Flash doesn't work on mobiles (it does on all new Androids, perfectly).

HAHAHAHAHA.

Oh wait, you're serious.

Wow.

 

[Full of Win]

Yeah the nerve of Apple and Google!

What do you think they do with the data? Maybe Steve likes to see his herd of iPhones sparkle by the 10's of millions across the planet? I'm sure Google is also setting up the fortress of solitude so they can wield their web ads at will to all Droid's as you meander in your average life!

The nerve of them both and I bet Microsoft is doing this too!

How freak'n ridiculous.

Just because others are doing it does not make it right. I was taught this concept in the 1st grade. Apple has NO RIGHT to know our location if we do not want them to. Give us the option to opt out. One would thing turning off location services does this...but according to several reputable news outlets it does not.

 

[kdarling]

Do you trust your employer so little that you would suspect them of routinely digging through your phone to find this kind of data? I don't think I could work at a company if I didn't trust them not to do that.

Leaving aside the obvious point that this was an example of why information other than a person's home address could be of interest...

Do you realize you just said that you couldn't work for Apple?

They're infamous for their lockdowns when looking for leaks, where people's phones are confiscated and gone through to see who they've called, emailed, etc.

 

[MacMan86]

Just because others are doing it does not make it right. I was taught this concept in the 1st grade. Apple has NO RIGHT to know our location if we do not want them to. Give us the option to opt out. One would thing turning off location services does this...but according to several reputable news outlets it does not.

Have you read ANY of the information out there? Apple doesn't find out your location - your iPhone does. This data isn't being sent to Apple

 

[lantzn]

ridicoulous

This is ridiculous! Bunch of paranoid fools, nobody's being tracked.

Sent from your iPhone.
47° 36' 23" N / 122° 19' 50" W

 

[macUser2007]

HAHAHAHAHA.

Oh wait, you're serious.

Wow.

Uhm, yes, I am serious.

I view Flash sites virtually every day on my Google Nexus S. In fact, it works so well, that nowadays I don't even think about it at all.

HAHAHAHAHA....

 

[MacMan86]

Leaving aside the obvious point that this was an example of why information other than a person's home address could be of interest...

Do you realize you just said that you couldn't work for Apple?

They're infamous for their lockdowns when looking for leaks, where people's phones are confiscated and gone through to see who they've called, emailed, etc.

Leaving aside the point that you've yet to come up with a serious scenario where this data actually could be obtained and actually used…

The funny thing is I actually have worked for Apple. 2 years in a retail store, 1 year part time as a Specialist, 1 year full time as a Genius. When I joined, they made it very clear that your emails may be read and there is software installed on staff computers that allows them to view your screen at any time. They disclosed what methods they used and told you to not do anything stupid - simple. They're open about what they do. It's a different matter if you're a company who does the same but in secret, with your staff unaware.

 

[Gyro1]

Consolidated.db

From what I've read, this really isn't that big of an issue. The database is just a list (that's locally stored) of places that you've been to. If it was uploaded to Apple, I would definitely be concerned but if it's a local file, then what's the fuss?
To get to the information, people would have to either:

A. Steal your phone and access the file
B. Steal your computer and access your iPhone backups
C. Hack your phone and find the file (if that's even possible)
D. Hack your computer and access the backups
E. Follow you wherever you go (unlikely, but who knows)

To me those options are more worrying when it comes to privacy than a list of coordinates stored locally on your phone, hidden in some sub-folder.

Anyway, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Ams.

On your iPhone, within a Terminal,
rm /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreLocation.framework/Support/consolidated.db

Problem solved. No more db.

 

[baryon]

• What are the chances that someone cares about your location?
• What are the chances that they can gain access to the file on your iPhone?
• What are the chances they are able to subtract data relevant to them?
• What can they do with that data?

Oh, right, you girlfriend (who is secretly a hacker) will figure out that you were cheating on her since you went somewhere after work before coming home yesterday.

Or a thief, who also happens to be a hacker, will steal the data, figure out what route you take to work every day, then wait for you along that route so he can steal your iPhone now that he knows you have one.

Or an advertising company will deliberately advertise services available near you.

What other similarly tragic things can this yield?

I get that this shouldn't be happening, because it's wrong and unauthorized, but nothing is really going to happen while this gets fixed. No one should be returning their iPhone because of this, that's over reacting.

 

[viewfly]

Android Devices Collect Location Data, Send it to Google

Android Devices Collect Location Data, Send it to Google
Friday, 8:38 AM by Eric M. Zeman

Earlier this week, researchers discovered that the Apple iPhone records users' location data, syncs it back to the host computer and stores it there in unencrypted, but invisible, files. What happens to that data in not yet fully understood. The Wall Street Journal points out that smartphones running Google's Android platform also collect user data but take it one step further. Security analyst Samy Kamkar reported that an HTC Android phone "collected its location every few seconds and transmitted the data to Google at least several times an hour. It also transmitted the name, location and signal strength of any nearby Wi-Fi networks, as well as a unique phone identifier." Google has said in the past that it collects cell phone location data in order to help generate the live traffic information it provides on Google Maps. The revelations this week have prompted concerns over user privacy.

Wall Street Journal Article:

 

[mdelvecchio]

Right....

And Flash doesn't work on mobiles (it does on all new Androids, perfectly).

And nobody reads anymore.

....uh, maybe you missed all the android reviews that said flash sucked, often laggy and prone to crashes?

and the stats on adult reading (way down) are not owned by jobs, theyre simply facts. google man.

 

[JAT]

Perhaps it's enough for your employer to know that you spent some time at a nearby small town after midnite, where the only place open that late is a swingers bar.

Um...so he can join you for a drink? Or what? (maybe your sister lives there and you were watching her kids while she had a hot date with hubby )

How is this a realistic problem? A crime, for instance, requires motive. What's the motive for any person, including homicide police, for needing to know which cell towers and wifi networks you have been near? The cops can get far better info real fast from the actual provider data, and I just don't see how anyone else would use this. Not after they've already stolen your phone or laptop, or broken in and taken this file off your hardware sitting in your house.

Someone could kill me with my own steak knife, but I'm not going to not have steak knives because of that possibility.

 

[Swift]

So Steve is saying there is no database of locations? Thats just an outright lie.

No, it's not, onion-breath.

He's saying Apple doesn't track you. The file isn't there for them. It's there for you to use. When you want to know where you are, roughly, but you don't want to allow the GPS radio to turn on and know exactly. When you open a GPS app and give it permission to run GPS, and then you're in a place where you can't see the location. You get the last good position until you can see the GPS.

I think they should explain, but just because this file is created doesn't mean it's used according to the worst paranoid nightmare.

 

[macUser2007]

...

Earlier this week, researchers discovered that the Apple iPhone records users' location data, syncs it back to the host computer and stores it there in unencrypted, but invisible, files. What happens to that data in not yet fully understood. The Wall Street Journal points out that smartphones running Google's Android platform also collect user data but take it one step further....

They all collect location data, but Apple keeps it for months, while Google deletes all but the most recent locations. That's the big issue with the Apple way of tracking.

....uh, maybe you missed all the android reviews that said flash sucked, often laggy and prone to crashes?

and the stats on adult reading (way down) are not owned by jobs, theyre simply facts. google man.

oh, boy...! maybe you missed the part where I said I have hands on experience with Flash on Android. It works. It just works. (You are probably reading the very early reviews from a year ago.)

As far as reading, Apple is pushing the iPad as a reading device nowadays. Around where I live, everyone and their dog has an ereader and reads ebooks. And here are some facts from the iTunes store, now that Steve has figured he can make money from books

Steve was just slamming the Kindle at the time, just like he was slamming Flash so he can push iAd, and just like he is slamming Android now, while lying to you that the iPhone does not track you.

Oh, and let's not forget the pronouncements about how there is "no need for cut/paste/copy" functions on the iPhone....

 

[Swift]

On your iPhone, within a Terminal,
rm /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreLocation.framework/Support/consolidated.db

Problem solved. No more db.

You know, if this master thief is a hacker, the first thing he'll do is wipe the iPhone, because he knows chances are good that you'll use "Find my iPhone" from MobileMe, and he lose it all. If I had my iPhone stolen, I'd be much more worried about not keeping passwords in an accessible form. Use LastPass or a password generator to get random passwords, and lock it with a password that's non-obvious. And don't jailbreak your iPhone.

Nothing's perfect, but jeez.

 

[Swift]

Leaving aside the obvious point that this was an example of why information other than a person's home address could be of interest...

Do you realize you just said that you couldn't work for Apple?

They're infamous for their lockdowns when looking for leaks, where people's phones are confiscated and gone through to see who they've called, emailed, etc.

If they give you the phone, or you use it at work, they own the data on it...

 

[Swift]

Just because others are doing it does not make it right. I was taught this concept in the 1st grade. Apple has NO RIGHT to know our location if we do not want them to. Give us the option to opt out. One would thing turning off location services does this...but according to several reputable news outlets it does not.

Apple doesn't know it. There's a former location in your file. It doesn't ask for it, some apps need it to work properly. They do say that they periodically share your location data -- but not identified as you -- and forensics shows it does that every 12 hours. In says, not "Joe was here," but "iPhone was here." No information about me.

The periodic location information? You're told about that in the terms of service.

 

[viewfly]

See what your iphone tracks look like with this free program. The program is here

As you can see it only saves cell tower locations...if you think otherwise, believe me I cannot jump around like that...it is not tracking my gps individual coordinates.

If you think you know where I live in Boston from this data...you actually would be wrong.

Pretty useless for tracking a person in any detail...
This is for all time. If I did one day...it still shows several towers that are so far apart and on this grid...that you would only know that I'm in Boston.

 

[JAT]

They all collect location data, but Apple keeps it for months, while Google deletes all but the most recent locations. That's the big issue with the Apple way of tracking.

Was there some Flash ad that told you this? Probably why I missed it.