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Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

Bubba Satori said:
They have been. I believe computers are going to start receiving the attention they deserve.
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Idon't know Apple is making pleanty $$$ off iPods and iPhones ...why would they bother ?

kastenbrust said:
Haha they arn't delayed but I doubt thats the reason they havn't come out yet. USB 3.0 is about to become mainstream and Apple knows it. Plus the Pro users who actually need firewire have the Macbook Pro. Hence the hint in the name, Pro.
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"Plus the Pro users who actually need firewire have the Macbook Pro. Hence the hint in the name, Pro."

So the guy who wants to put his family films on to his mac is a pro user because his mac has no firewire ? and his camera has firewire.

"Hint in the name"

Yeah , pro ,

hmmm ...like the guy who records music for a hobby is a 'pro user' because he needs a firewire audio card to record his music.

It's just a uncouth way of making money , like not including cables with Macbooks to connect to external monitors so you have to buy one from Apple as they are propriety at the moment , a better way to make money would be to be nice to the customers and not charge for daft stuff that should be included anyway in my humble opinion ,

oh hang on, I'm feeding a troll, sorry
 
marbles said:
"Plus the Pro users who actually need firewire have the Macbook Pro. Hence the hint in the name, Pro."

So the guy who wants to put his family films on to his mac is a pro user because his mac has no firewire ? and his camera has firewire.

"Hint in the name"

Yeah , pro ,

hmmm ...like the guy who records music for a hobby is a 'pro user' because he needs a firewire audio card to record his music.

It's just a uncouth way of making money , like not including cables with macbooks to connect to external monitors so you have to buy one as they are propriety at the moment , a better way to make money would be to be nice to the customers and not charge for daft stuff that should be included anyway in my humble opinion ,

oh hang on, I'm feeding a troll, sorry
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Its called a Firewire to USB adaptor

Only a pro would need full FW800 speeds anyway.
The "guy who wants to put his family films on to his mac" is unlikely to notice the difference

Anyway you cant really notice the difference without an SSD in the first place

Rather than procrastinating new problems how about finding cheap simple solutions.

oh hang on, I'm feeding a procrastination troll, sorry
 
kastenbrust said:
Its called a Firewire to USB adaptor

Only a pro would need full FW800 speeds anyway.
The "guy who wants to put his family films on to his mac" is unlikely to notice the difference

Anyway you cant really notice the difference without a SSD in the first place
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Sorry , what are you talking about ?

~m
 
Exactly... Anything to truly convert one to the other would need a processor, memory buffer, probably its own power supply... Basically a small computer with a USB port and a FireWire port.

Oh and that would cost more than a PCI/AGP/PCIx/PCIe/PCMCIA/ExpressCard FireWire card, so there is absolutely no incentive for any company to make one, let alone for Macs, which used to all have FireWire.
 
kastenbrust said:
Haha they arn't delayed but I doubt thats the reason they havn't come out yet. USB 3.0 is about to become mainstream and Apple knows it. Plus the Pro users who actually need firewire have the Macbook Pro. Hence the hint in the name, Pro.
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FW is consumer not pro. It's been on Apple consumer products for nearly a decade and is inexpensive and "good enough" which is why it is adequate for some lower-end professional uses.


Lethal
 
Went to the Apple Store yesterday. Hadn't been in a while.

I'm sad. :( The Macbook is a NICE machine. I like the form factor! I don't mind the shiny screen! The glass trackpad no button dilly-o is fine! All in all, this machine is RIGHT on target for me - my wallet wants to open and spend......... but I can't because of the one small omission that I MUST have firewire. I have too many peripherals that require firewire and I cannot replace many of them because the manufacturer does not offer USB versions. I'm not willing to use a 15" machine - coming from my 12" Powerbook makes the 15" feel like a giant inefficient weight.

*sigh*

mabye someday. But I'm getting tired.
 
LethalWolfe said:
FW is consumer not pro. It's been on Apple consumer products for nearly a decade and is inexpensive and "good enough" which is why it is adequate for some lower-end professional uses.
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Exactly. With the exception of the new Macbooks, every non-pro Apple machine built in this decade has included Firewire.

What about this...

http://www.apple.com/logicexpress/apogee/

The Apogee Duet is sweet, but is not pro gear. It is a firewire audio interface marketed mainly towards hobbyists and home studios for use with Garageband and Logic Express. I bought one only 6 months ago and I find it supremely annoying to think that Apple wants me to pay a $800+ premium to go pro next time I get a laptop just so I can continue to use it.

The fact is that for musicians, even semi-pros like me, the Macbook Pro offers nothing over the Macbook except for screen size and firewire. I don't need the screen size and I don't think firewire is worth $800 (more than the cost of a new interface). This is Apple's way of sticking it to their loyal creative users by forcing them into the more expensive tier of hardware by crippling the one they've always used. I've invested a lot of money in FW over the years and have lots of hard drives which are FW-only. This just hurts.
 
I'm a pro videographer. What is apple thinking????????

I am a professional videographer and I have to tell you the only thing usb capture is good for is a flip video camera.

If you know anything about usb then you know it can't handle steady high streams of data. Copy a 2 gig file on Firewire then do the same on usb 2. No contest. Video = a bunch of dropped frames. Don't even think about uncompressed hd.

The Macbook makes a great lightweight - cheap field monitor. try staring at a 4 inch lcd screen for a few hours. I can capture to tape and Hard drive at the same time. Sure I can buy 2 16 gig P2 cards and capture to them. Anyone got 2600 bucks.

Some say pros buy a Macbook pro to do the same thing. My answer: Why? Last I checked the Macbook runs Final Cut, Motion, and After Effects just fine when I'm in the field. And for a fraction of the price
 
ericmooreart said:
Some say pros buy a Macbook pro to do the same thing. My answer: Why? Last I checked the Macbook runs Final Cut, Motion, and After Effects just fine when I'm in the field. And for a fraction of the price
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Which is part of the 'problem' in Apple's eyes, IMO. Too many people were buying MBs instead of MBPs so Apple hamstrung the MB by yanking FW.


Lethal
 
ericmooreart said:
If you know anything about usb then you know it can't handle steady high streams of data.
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Precisely why the best audio interfaces are firewire. USB 2.0 is prone to latency issues. Simple fact: USB 2.0 is system managed (master/slave architecture) and thus has overhead, causing slower transfers and sometimes delayed response times. It's inefficient at transmitting data compared to FW's peer-to-peer architecture. Not a big deal when recording a single track, but for multi-tracking the limits of USB 2.0 become more obvious.

It's kind of ridiculous that we're even on here explaining the superiority of FW. This is basic knowledge to anyone with a little experience in audio or video. Anyone defending Apple on this is only showing their inexperience and should be reading more than posting.

We creative professionals have been the backbone of Apple's market. We were buying Macs when they were beige. Their decision to exclude FW from the new Macbooks is cynical and a real slap in the face to some of their most loyal users. Especially the musicians, most of whom do not have pro budgets, but have long invested in Apple and in Firewire.
 
ateslik said:
Went to the Apple Store yesterday. Hadn't been in a while.

I'm sad. :( The Macbook is a NICE machine. I like the form factor! I don't mind the shiny screen! The glass trackpad no button dilly-o is fine! All in all, this machine is RIGHT on target for me - my wallet wants to open and spend......... but I can't because of the one small omission that I MUST have firewire. I have too many peripherals that require firewire and I cannot replace many of them because the manufacturer does not offer USB versions. I'm not willing to use a 15" machine - coming from my 12" Powerbook makes the 15" feel like a giant inefficient weight.

*sigh*

mabye someday. But I'm getting tired.
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You should have gone to the counter and made it look like your were going to order one of them but decided to change your mind once you asked about the ports on the machine noticing the lack of firewire.
 
kastenbrust said:
Seemingly complicated simple problems
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meh , how is firewire being eliminated from the Macbook complicated?, well I suppose it is complex trying to figure out why they did it if you don't actually use a firewire port but I suppose you where you just being facetious.

I'll try to explain...


Obviously this problem doesn't affect you but the thing is, lots of hobbyists and family folk use firewire devices and can no longer hook up there gear to the latest Macbook which IMHO is a bit daft on Apples part as most folks who use a Mac in this way will not pony up the necessary £$£ to go 'pro' for a port, they'll buy elsewhere ie: a PC.

So you see? the term 'Pro' used on the MacbookPro is simply marketing hype and nothing more for instance I need a firewire port for my external HD's , my soundcard etc and I am no 'Pro' user.

I don't need the extra graphics power in the MBP or the bigger screen.

I just need what a lowly non 'Pro' Macbook offers but you see? I cannot buy one at the moment because they have no FW port, I'm certainly not going to buy all new HD's and certainly will not use a USB soundcard for obvious reasons ...just search the board for firewire v's USB audio interfaces if you don't understand why.

Bottom line you need firewire or you don't, Apple's offering that does have firewire is £650 more expensive !, that's £650 difference in the base models of Macbook and MacbookPro just for a port. Even if you are a billionaire it is irresponsible to spend £650 for a simple port which probably costs Apple less than 20$.

So, you see? that when your own uses show a 15" screen will give no benefit over a 13.3" screen(I connect to a monitor when not mobile) & you don't play games(I use a machine for work)...........to pay £650 for a Firewire port is, well, quite bizzare.

Then again there are types who will buy the MacbookPro simply because it is called a 'Pro' to show off (this is also complex for me to understand)


If you don't understand now I cannot help you.

~m
 
Obviously a lot of users are pi$$ed off about the Firewire issue...but how do the companies that make the Firewire based hardware...like Digidesign...feel about this? After the nightmare they went through just getting Pro Tools to work with Leopard, they must have a photo of Steve Jobs up on their company dartboard. I'd like to take a few throws actually.
 
chakosticks said:
Obviously a lot of users are pi$$ed off about the Firewire issue...but how do the companies that make the Firewire based hardware...like Digidesign...feel about this? After the nightmare they went through just getting Pro Tools to work with Leopard, they must have a photo of Steve Jobs up on their company dartboard. I'd like to take a few throws actually.
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I suggest we all throw our Firewire gear that we won't be able to use anymore at the person who suggested they should remove Firewire
 
LethalWolfe said:
Which is part of the 'problem' in Apple's eyes, IMO. Too many people were buying MBs instead of MBPs so Apple hamstrung the MB by yanking FW.


Lethal
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Thing is, it's flawed thinking by Apple IMO because those of us who use firewire and don't need the graphics and screen size increase on the MBP( and thats a big fat lot much amount of people) have no choice but to buy a MBP because it has a firewire port.

It's that simple to Apple : pony up the extra £650£ for a firewire port or that's it , no mobile Mac for you Mr & Mrs Music and film enthusiast .

I'm thinking unless they do something really fast, serious money and market share is going to be lost because of this ridiculous 'up sell' tactic Apple is leaning more and more toward.

Fair play, 'up sell' works sometimes and is an efficant way of increasing profits but this time it really is one step too far, I don't know about you guys but for me at least ...no way I'm shelling out 650 of the Queens finest Great British pounds so I can continue to use a mobile Mac .

The investment in software I've made is what does me as well for if I switch to windows I'll have to re invest although I believe it will be less expensive than buying new, inferior USB based audio interfaces and slower USB external HD's.

My mind boggles that some one at Apple thinks that your average Macbook purchasing public who use and require firewire on a computer will spend 650 for the privilege, some folks need a reality check, oh just wait till those figures start to roll in, just wait crazy Apple dood who gave the OK to remove firewire port from the macbook,.oh dear .... when the board see;s the drop in revenue ..ouch! then again they prolly don't care with tens of billions in the bank

sorry but RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

It makes me so mad , I'd saved and waited to buy a couple new macbooks then all this nonsense with firewire , ah well it's only my lively hood that's at stake, I feel like I'm being held to ransom by someone not even anywhere near me " pay me 650 or you cannot go on working "

thanks Apple :mad:

rant over , sorry
 
CrackedButter said:
I suggest we all throw our Firewire gear that we won't be able to use anymore at the person who suggested they should remove Firewire
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I just had this vision of Earth as a desolate wasteland, with myself in a cave somewhere beside a heaping stack of lithium-ion batteries...with 63 devices daisy-chained to the Firewire 400 port on my 366mHz Key Lime iBook...using a unibody MacBook tied to a stick to fend off bears.
 
marbles said:
Fair play, 'up sell' works sometimes and is an efficant way of increasing profits but this time it really is one step too far, I don't know about you guys but for me at least ...no way I'm shelling out 650 of the Queens finest Great British pounds so I can continue to use a mobile Mac .
Click to expand...

When my band heads over this May to the land that my family hasn't called home since Oliver Cromwell ruined everything for us, we'll be bringing an outdated PowerBook along instead of a shiny new MacBook. We'll use the money we would have spent on the MacBook on copious amounts of lager instead.
 
"Actually, all of the new HD camcorders of the past few years use USB 2"

Yeah.
Tell that to my 2007 tape-based Canon HV30. I have a mid-'07 MBP so I don't have any problems but I have some friends that have similar camcorders and bought one of the new Macbooks (they couldn't afford the MBP) and now they'll have to buy an external card to capture their footage.

I just really hope that when the new standard (FW3200) gets released, they put a port on ALL Macs.
 
marbles said:
It makes me so mad , I'd saved and waited to buy a couple new macbooks then all this nonsense with firewire , ah well it's only my lively hood that's at stake, I feel like I'm being held to ransom by someone not even anywhere near me " pay me 650 or you cannot go on working "

thanks Apple :mad:

rant over , sorry
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Well, I wouln't call it exactly a rant. I myself feel the same way and there is nothing wrong for a faithful Mac user to vent off some frustration when he/she is being screwed by the very company he/she has been supporting for so many years.

I mentioned a few times in this thread already that for the first time, I'm actually considering the purchase of a non Apple computer. I never thought that this would happen. But alas, Apple can only go so far before they trip up on their arrogance again as they did back in the mid-eighties.

Here's hoping that Apple changes it course (and mind) before it is too late.
 
the Helix said:
Well, I wouln't call it exactly a rant. I myself feel the same way and there is nothing wrong for a faithful Mac user to vent off some frustration when he/she is being screwed by the very company he/she has been supporting for so many years.

I mentioned a few times in this thread already that for the first time, I'm actually considering the purchase of a non Apple computer. I never thought that this would happen. But alas, Apple can only go so far before they trip up on their arrogance again as they did back in the mid-eighties.

Here's hoping that Apple changes it course (and mind) before it is too late.
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Yeah, I'm here hoping too. Though I don't fancy our chances much .

Apple are 'high' on success at the moment and sitting pretty with billions in the bank but like druggies who are high and won't listen until it's too late , I feel Apple will be like this and not listen ....too 'high' on success and full of arrogance, unfortunately.

The next few weeks/months are going to be crucial to Apple and I for one am hoping they come down to reality before it is too late.

Make the right decision Apple, don't get all arrogant and lose the plot at this stage, you've been doing so well since the glitch in the 80's a bit like an alcoholic going back on the drink after 20 years ....just stoopid


BAH :mad: I don't want to use windows an I'm far from an Apple fanboi but I find OS X is simply the best OS for what I do(audio) but with no affordable option (ie around 6-700£) for mobile computing I'm afraid it's looking like I will have to buy a windows laptop,......we'll find out for sure these next few weeks after the refresh of the Macbooks.

Maybe they'll even release an up to date Mini? along with a MB with firewire who know's ....One can dream about having an affordable Mac desktop and mobile unit, can't one?.

Apple, can I dream?, can I dare to hope that you will supply me with a machine for my uses ? or are you going to go all out arrogant and say feck it and only have ports on the MacPro because after all it is the 'Pro' machine and only 'Pro's need ports, right?

I'd better stop now :eek:
 
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