Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[Adjei]

So, you've surveyed apple computer owners and came up with the 1% figure? That's ridiculous. Just educational facilities using firewire on Macs would be a very large number. And if you and others don't care about firewire, why are you discussing it in this thread? You already have what you want. Obviously some of you are so smitten with Apple that if the told you they were coming to your home do disable some of the functionality of your Mac, you would welcome them.

Well I'm sure Apple calculated and saw the percentage of users who would be affected and they saw it wasn't wise to keep supporting a small niche. It's not like they haven't left you options, in fact they have at an even cheaper price (999) but as usual y'all will keep on complaining.

 

[RedBear]

Online petitions get printed and mailed

All that makes sense, but I really wonder how effective online petitions are. My point is, I don't think we should expend our energy on something that will not work. Somehow, I can see Steve Jobs pissing on an online petition. Personally, I think our protest needs to be more than signing an online petition.

What happens with these online petitions is that you acquire your target number of signatures and then you print it out and physically send it to someone. Trust me, if enough people participate in this a very large pile of paper will be sitting on someone's desk at Apple in the near future. I really don't think it's a waste of time to participate in the online petition.

But I do agree that more needs to be done. Send emails and write physical letters in your own words and send them by certified mail so someone at Apple is forced to sign for each letter received. This will help get their attention.

 

[dba7dba]

You don't need it for a macbook... i can't believe that people are whining so much. If firewire is such a huge part of what you do BUY THE PRO! I'm sorry but USB 2.0 is faster to transfer files and with the exception of some camcorders virtually every other piece of hardware can be purchased sans firewire. ...

DONT give me the junk about "...i have all this equipment ..." your current setup will not explode just because a new model came out, and nobody has a gun to your head making you upgrade.

Not true!

I have a relative who might switch to mac but needs to be able to get video from miniDV camcorder. See he's not pro hence he still uses non-PRO miniDV camcorder that still requires firewire to pull video down. Should I tell him to shell out $700 more just because of a lack of Firewire port on 13" macbook? This 'non pros don't need firewire port' is complete silliness!

 

[OllyW]

I use Logic on my 8-core MacPro, and use MainStage on my MacBook. The situation DOES exist. I have the original MacBook and would like to upgrade to something with 802.11n, more RAM etc, but I don't need the graphics or processor performance of the MacBook Pro - I just need Firewire as I used the Apogee Duet.

Buy the white MacBook then, it does everything you are asking for.

 

[Adjei]

You really should quit while your behind. USB 2 sucks, and I won't be replacing my many firewire devices any time soon.

It sucks and so what, that's what the majority of the public is using.

 

[editguy]

If you look at any hdd camcorder on the market you will see that they all use usb2. I also can say they work fine in imovie and transferring them is so much faster then the old fashioned mini dv realtime import mode (used both a sony and a jvc)

On the other hand I think its way too early to drop firewire. Until hdd camcorders become the mainstream then taking away firewire could be a possibility


I do think its ironic that integrated graphics was the main thing holding people back from getting a macbook and instead its firewire

Mousse they could easily remove ethernet and the outrage of it would be just as bad but again the majority of users (95%) wouldn't care about it at all because they never use it.

I have a macbook pro and have used ethernet twice since i've gotten it (march of this year)

That's fine if all you use is junky consumer USB camcorders and you don't mind using a crippled, non-conforming editing program like iMovie. But for my business, and for the high school video classes I teach, we use Final Cut. And we use FW camcorders and that's not going to change any time soon. But we may be switching our labs from Mac and Final Cut.

 

[Chaos123x]

I think Apple is destroying it's base, the creative artist crowd.

These are the people that supported apple through it's hard times, and went out to the streets and evangelized for Steve Jobs.

What do we get? No matte screens? No Firewire?

Now that Apple is ignoring the creative artists they will no longer recommend mac to every man, women, and child.

But once this whole iPod, iPhone fad dies down Apple will not have their new found consumers and their base will be all but gone.



Same thing with Nintendo...

Hardcore gamers that like Mario, Metroid, and Zelda supported them through the hard times, but now they have great success with casual gamers, they are ignoring the base, when the Wii fad is over so is Nintendo, because their hardcore base will be gone.



Why can't companies serve their base and their new found casual costumers at the same time???

 

[synth3tik]

Buy the white MacBook then, it does everything you are asking for.

Until they drop that from the line as well. Why should people who want firwire for what ever reason be forced to do one of 3 things:
1) stay with what they have even if out dated.
2) Get the lowest end MB which lacks benefits over the aluminum (firewire aside)
3) Buy a MBP when they don't need to horsepower and would like a smaller screen.

 

[RedBear]

You can help

That's fine if all you use is junky consumer USB camcorders and you don't mind using a crippled, non-conforming editing program like iMovie. But for my business, and for the high school video classes I teach, we use Final Cut. And we use FW camcorders and that's not going to change any time soon. But we may be switching our labs from Mac and Final Cut.

Someone like yourself should definitely be writing to Apple. Once they realize they're about to lose dozens or hundreds of school labs because of this idiocy, maybe they'll wake up. An official letter from a purchasing agent carries a lot more weight than letters from individuals. Please take some time out of your day to give feedback both electronically and by certified mail. We would all really appreciate your help.

Oh, and sign the online petition and get anyone you know to sign it as well:

http://www.petitiononline.com/MB1394/petition.html

Thanks.

 

[bilbo--baggins]

Buy the white MacBook then, it does everything you are asking for.

Good point, but I would much rather have the new aluminium case, the faster integrated graphics, the new Mini Display Port, the organic LED display... The white Macbook is already an outdated product.

If only they had included a Firewire port...

The worst part of all this is that this is presumably just the start of a slippery slope - Apple will likely be phasing out Firewire from all of it's computers over the next few years.

 

[Fast Shadow]

If all new camcorders use USB then Apple should take USB off of the Macbook because it's a Pro feature.

And they should remove the optical drives, too. Those are also for pros.

And they should switch to single core processors for the Macbook, only pros need multi core.

 

[cube]

The worst part of all this is that this is presumably just the start of a slippery slope

It's not the start:

- Overkill Mac Pro
- iMac stubborness
- Stupid Mac mini
- Stupid displays
- Fascist iPhone

 

[dba7dba]

as a musician... I have a mac pro, and a macbook pro.

I would never ever ever consider running reason, logic, drums from hell, etc. on a macbook. You are creating a situation that does not exist.

There are many many casual consumer users of macbook who occasionally download video from camcorder which require firewire. Because they are not PRO users, they don't go out and buy the latest and greatest camcorder, camcorders such as those that don't need firewire connection for downloading video.

What about them? Should they purchase MBP or a latest camcorder just because MB has no firewire? And pls don't tell me they can get the white macbook.

 

[Chaos123x]

If all new camcorders use USB then Apple should take USB off of the Macbook because it's a Pro feature.

And they should remove the optical drives, too. Those are also for pros.

And they should switch to single core processors for the Macbook, only pros need multi core.

Yeah and only pros need Nvidia graphics casual are good with intel integrated.

Only I.T. pros need ethernet.


But really maybe they should remove USB because most consumers don't know what it is anyway.

 

[Courtaj]

If all new camcorders use USB then Apple should take USB off of the Macbook because it's a Pro feature.
And they should remove the optical drives, too. Those are also for pros.
And they should switch to single core processors for the Macbook, only pros need multi core.

Good God, man! Don't tempt them!

 

[OllyW]

Good point, but I would much rather have the new aluminium case, the faster integrated graphics, the new Mini Display Port, the organic LED display... The white Macbook is already an outdated product.

If only they had included a Firewire port...

The worst part of all this is that this is presumably just the start of a slippery slope - Apple will likely be phasing out Firewire from all of it's computers over the next few years.

I agree, I doubt if I would buy the white MacBook myself unless it was heavily discounted.

I only suggested it because it does everything you were asking for.

 

[RedTomato]

Apple took out ADB. Workaround = buy adaptor cable. ($10?)
Apple took out floppy. Workaround = buy external floppy ($30?)
Apple took out optical. Workaround = buy external optical from Apple. ($100)
Apple took out DVI. Workaround = buy miniDisplayPort adaptor ($xx <$100)

Apple took out Firewire. Workaround = NONE.

This is a different issue. 90% of decent video cameras, from low end to high end transfer video via Firewire, and ONLY via firewire. There 's no existing workaround. Even using a transfer deck ($1000+) won't help, these are FW controlled too.

(USB is only used on these cameras for transferring still or low-res images)

MacBooks (even the new Alu MB) are underpowered for AVCHD, and with too small HDs for this format (50GB/hr of footage). But they're PERFECT for miniDV as everyone knows.

Apple programs that depend on FW for their incoming data:

iMovie
iDVD
Final Cut Express
Final Cut Pro
DVD Studio Pro
Colour
Motion
Compressor

All of these are best-of-breed (or nearly so) in their sectors. Jobs is cutting off his nose to spite his face here.

Is there really no space for even a tiny 4-pin FW port? That would have satisfied 95% of people here.

 

[editguy]

If all new camcorders use USB then Apple should take USB off of the Macbook because it's a Pro feature.

And they should remove the optical drives, too. Those are also for pros.

And they should switch to single core processors for the Macbook, only pros need multi core.

And that's part of the point I've been trying to make. Not all new cameras use USB. But I agree with the spirit of your post. And if they were really trying to differentiate, why did they make it look like the Pro?

 

[dba7dba]

Apple took out ADB. Workaround = buy adaptor cable. ($10?)
Apple took out floppy. Workaround = buy external floppy ($30?)
Apple took out optical. Workaround = buy external optical from Apple. ($100)
Apple took out DVI. Workaround = buy miniDisplayPort adaptor ($xx <$100)

Apple took out Firewire. Workaround = NONE.

This is a different issue. 90% of decent video cameras, from low end to high end transfer video via Firewire, and ONLY via firewire. There 's no existing workaround. Even using a transfer deck ($1000+) won't help, these are FW controlled too.

(USB is only used on these cameras for transferring still or low-res images)

MacBooks (even the new Alu MB) are underpowered for AVCHD, and with too small HDs for this format (50GB/hr of footage). But they're PERFECT for miniDV as everyone knows.

Apple programs that depend on FW for their incoming data:

iMovie
iDVD
Final Cut Express
Final Cut Pro
DVD Studio Pro
Colour
Motion
Compressor

All of these are best-of-breed (or nearly so) in their sectors. Jobs is cutting off his nose to spite his face here.

Is there really no space for even a tiny 4-pin FW port? That would have satisfied 95% of people here.

Apple knew exactly what it was doing. Forcing all these consumer level users to buy mbp...

 

[Cole Slaw]

Yeah and only pros need Nvidia graphics casual are good with intel integrated.

Only I.T. pros need ethernet.


But really maybe they should remove USB because most consumers don't know what it is anyway.

Haha, that was funny.
Just get rid of all ports, because only "Pros" need 'em anyways.

 

[dba7dba]

Apple took out ADB. Workaround = buy adaptor cable. ($10?)
Apple took out floppy. Workaround = buy external floppy ($30?)
Apple took out optical. Workaround = buy external optical from Apple. ($100)
Apple took out DVI. Workaround = buy miniDisplayPort adaptor ($xx <$100)

Apple took out Firewire. Workaround = NONE.

This is a different issue. 90% of decent video cameras, from low end to high end transfer video via Firewire, and ONLY via firewire. There 's no existing workaround. Even using a transfer deck ($1000+) won't help, these are FW controlled too.

(USB is only used on these cameras for transferring still or low-res images)

MacBooks (even the new Alu MB) are underpowered for AVCHD, and with too small HDs for this format (50GB/hr of footage). But they're PERFECT for miniDV as everyone knows.

Apple programs that depend on FW for their incoming data:

iMovie
iDVD
Final Cut Express
Final Cut Pro
DVD Studio Pro
Colour
Motion
Compressor

All of these are best-of-breed (or nearly so) in their sectors. Jobs is cutting off his nose to spite his face here.

Is there really no space for even a tiny 4-pin FW port? That would have satisfied 95% of people here.

Apple must've thought it's better to make extra $700 from each laptop purchaser instead of $100 for adapters...

 

[momoe]

I'm pretty sure they did this so that there is now a distinct reason to get the MacBookPro over the MacBook. If it wasn't for that, I would seriously be thinking about getting a MacBook instead. I'm sure this will help the "Pro Users" decide to stay with the higher end models.

That logic is fine, but the difference should be between a 13" white MB w/out FW and a 13" Al MBP w/ FW - NOT between 13" white MB with old GPU technology/bus speeds, a hobbled 13" Al MB with new GPU/bus speeds w/out FW, or a BIG 15" Al MBP identical in every way to the Al MB except the FW and CardBus!

momoe

 

[editguy]

Apple knew exactly what it was doing. Forcing all these consumer level users to buy mbp...

I'm sure he'll succeed, but not all of us will follow. I bought a 12.1 Asus laptop (with just about every port you can imagine and higher specs except for the processor which was equal and $500 less than the MBP) last spring running CS3 and it has been a great machine. No freezes, no problems. I will mourn the loss of the Mac programs I love, but if I have to completely migrate to get everything I want and need, I will do that. A computer is a tool and it doesn't matter how pretty or elegant that tool is if it can't do the job.

 

[BillyBobBongo]

Until they drop that from the line as well....

Which is bound to happen. Its days are numbered!

 

[midiotlv]

My email to Steve (no response received or expected):

Mr. Jobs:

I wanted to express my disappointment in the decision to remove firewire from the new MacBooks. I currently have a MacPro (Early 2008) and a firewire recording/audio interface (from MOTU). It had been my plan to purchase a MacBook for recording in the field. Unfortunately, with the new MacBooks, I am stuck without a port for my audio interface.

Yes, there are audio interfaces with USB 2, but some research will clearly show that firewire is a better architecture for streaming multiple tracks of audio + MIDI (not to mention interface capability through mLAN --- which is completely firewire based).

To accomplish my remote recording with Logic Studio now, I must either purchase the 999 white MacBook (which scares me due to the lower end graphics and reports of case cracking, etc...) or go to the MacBookPro. Realize that the MacBook (new) is everything I need...except for one "$700" port!!

I understand that Apple may want to distinguish 'pro' from 'consumer', but not all musicians who would buy an audio interface for home recording are pros. We also have to buy keyboards, disk arrays, interfaces, mics, etc.... For the student or hobbyist producer, a cheaper PC laptop is probably going to be an attractive option. At the very least, the MacBook should include an expansion port for those who want to add firewire as an option.

As for me, I will probably not buy any Apple laptop at this point as I just cannot justify 2100+ for the few times I've considered mobile recording (around 1K was a bit more of a possibility).

What scares me even more is the general feeling that Apple is moving away from firewire in general. This will cause every musician/producer to have to buy a new interface to use with the newer hardware. Since many/most of these interfaces already run from 500 to 1000, I feel that many people will simply choose to move away from Apple hardware due to the cost of the pro line. Also, manufacturers of the audio interfaces have just had their target audience slashed. There are many prosumer audio interfaces (2/4 channels) that now have no home on Apple consumer hardware.

...I've preached that Apple is THE company for creative people and musicians. Unfortunately, I now have to modify that to be creative people and 'pro' musicians.

Please don't leave the musical community behind or force new/student musicians into pro hardware. In my humble opinion, it will only force people to consider other (inferior) hardware platforms.

....

***********

Although I also think this sucks for video use (I also capture video via FW), my biggest hit is with my audio interface.

-D