Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[Kinsella217]

Really?

I had circled Tuesday on the calendar, if not literally, than figuratively, long in advance (yes, before any such date was announced). I was prepared to buy myself a MacBook. While I genuinely loathe glossy screens, I had accepted, with a heavy heart, that I'd be saddled with such a screen for the four years I'd expect to get, from the computer.

I refreshed Engadget like a man possessed throughout the announcements and my excitement grew into horror as I watched "Pro" machines receive decidedly -non- "Pro" screens. Still, with news of my future MacBook still ahead, I listened attentively.

Surely the rumors about the new case and the loss of FireWire had to have been wrong, I believed. Sadly, my confidence was crushed.

Now listen, maybe uber-new digital video cameras come with USB 2.0 ports. Maybe the average MacBook customer doesn't care about fast backups to hard drives or target disk mode.

Or maybe I'm not the average MacBook user (although I suspect I am), but if my budget limits me to a MacBook, it certainly doesn't allow me to run out and replace the FireWire video camera I bought only two years ago from an Apple store. It also doesn't allow me to replace both FireWire hard drives that I have connected to my current G5 iMac.

I'm heavily invested (by my economic standards) in FireWire. If FireWire is to be replaced in much the same way that USB replaced serial ports, then drop FireWire -WHEN- you provide it's replacement and I'll accept that, even if I'm not thrilled about it.

But to drop FireWire completely and -THEN- charge HUNDREDS of dollars more for the same processing power that a lower price would have netted me, only one day earlier, is an insult.

I don't care how proud they are of their super-over designed case. I don't care how much they tout their mouse-button-less glass track pad. I don't care if they think the "coolness" of the backlit keyboard is going to awe me into making a poor financial decision. If it's Apple's intent to provide me with dramatically poorer value than they had previously, then it's my intention not to buy their "beautiful" new machine.

In fact, my need for a portable machine -was- happily resolved today. I was able to purchase a brand new "Early 2008" Penryn entry level MacBook Pro for $100 less than the high end MacBook would have cost me. I can't believe I'm the owner of such a sweet, matte screened, FireWire-laden, highly expandable powerhouse of a machine. This is my 11th Apple Macintosh.

It's also my last until Apple gets off this outrageous glossy screen kick and starts respecting the intelligence and needs of it's customers. Say what you will about the first generation iBook days, but Apple was hungry to prove they could make a good looking computer that was powerful and they gave you more technology and capability than you'd get, anywhere else.

The MacBook is a disastrously poor value. It's a worse value than the previous generation. I only hope this doesn't portend similar decisions yet to emerge from Cupertino.

 

[localoid]

Quoting from the article, Apple Chooses Form Over Function; Users and the Press Rebel, by Create Digital Music...

It should have been another home run for Apple today. The new MacBooks and MacBook Pros look like absolutely gorgeous, brilliantly-engineered, environmentally-friendly machines. And for many, the fact they run Mac OS is all you need to know. I really do look forward to seeing one of these machines in person. But in case you haven’t caught on, a lot of people aren’t exactly overjoyed. The loudest complaints: creating digital music and creating digital motion (ahem) are crippled by the lack of FireWire on the MacBook, a format Apple once championed.

 

[dba7dba]

Say what you will about the first generation iBook days, but Apple was hungry to prove they could make a good looking computer that was powerful and they gave you more technology and capability than you'd get, anywhere else.

Apple obviously isn't hungry enough now to keep 1 lousy FW on their most popular laptop line.

 

[corinhorn]

The MacBook is a disastrously poor value. It's a worse value than the previous generation. I only hope this doesn't portend similar decisions yet to emerge from Cupertino.

Agreed. But I wouldn't get your hopes too high for no more stupid moves from Apple. Once a compromise occurs, it is easier to compromise again and again.

 

[cube]

Apple has been a terrible hardware company for years.

 

[ryanwarsaw]

I'm surprised your brain functions well enough to keep your heart beating. At first I thought you were linking to a combo USB/FireWire hub which would have been bad enough, but you actually linked to one of those multi-functional cables where you can change each end to create whatever type of cable you need.

And you actually think that putting a USB connector on one end and a FireWire connector on the other end would "convert" FireWire to USB. I suppose (tee-hee) you also think you can convert Ethernet to USB or even Ethernet to FireWire with that same cable.

Priceless. Knee-slapping hilarity. If it wasn't so unimaginably stupid.

You must really have a very high opinion of yourself to imagine that we are all stupid enough to be getting our panties in a bunch over something that could be solved with a $5 cable. Really? Do you think you're that much smarter than everyone else?

USB and FireWire are fundamentally different to the point that there will never even be a USB-based FireWire adapter. There is no possible way to add FireWire to the new MacBook, and that's why this is a HUGE problem that we are complaining about so loudly.

Go buy a PC. Ugh people as bitter as you are sad.

 

[McBeats]

lol I got flamed HARD in another thread bringing this up on a different topic...

well heres the friggin topic, only hours later, so ill post my opinion here along with others...

that firewire 400 was still useful, and if they got rid of it, they coulda at least gave us another usb port, cuz 2 usb ports is not much to work with. I understand I can get a hub, and I do have one... but my soundcard doesnt work properly through the hub. (along with other devices, I'm sure)

k back to the studio, ill be back in the next revision (or new mac pro announcement)

 

[PMR]

Not to sound like an arse, but everyone here complaining had planned on buying THIS MacBook? What was wrong with the prior version? No one REMOVED FireWire from your current setup.

Of course if your serious about video editing and importing on the road you would get a MacBook Pro.

Or is this another case of "Well in all honesty I was not going to buy one, I just like to complain."

Sorry guys, but I see this all to often. Remember that the consumer end did not have FireWire til MUCH later in the game.

Also keep in mind that $400 IS $400 dollars, but not a whole lot when you consider the MacBook over a MacBook Pro which will not ONLY have FireWire but ALSO twin video cards - you know, for all you "serious" video editors. And lets not forget a 15" screen over the MacBook's 13" screen. Something else most video guys seem to want.....

So, to put it bluntly if you are this serious about the video thing and can pony up the cash for a DV camera with firewire, spend $400 more for the better machine with FireWire or just pick up the prior model.

Ok, done with rant...

If the previous MB didn't have FW, no one should be whining about it. But since this lame "upgrade" removed FW from virtually the same product, everyone is pissed off with reason.
My external drives have FW 800, 400 and USB. Try to edit/move 60GB of video across USB and feel the pain.

I don't want to spend more $700, I don't need a 9600GT for editing video, a 15" screen on a laptop nor the increased weight.
And three more flaws on the MBP: the usb ports are to close to each other; it only has one FW port; glossy.

With this I can only say that the last apple laptops where the real deal.

PS: 2GB of ram on a $2000 laptop is LAME

 

[Adamo]

Hackingtosh ahoy, surely?

 

[rockosmodurnlif]

1) How much can you really save by dropping FW? $20? $30?

Let's say it's $20 and extrapolate that across 1,000 machines. That's $20,000. Now how many laptops does Apple make per year?

Can you daisy chain USB? Do the Macs provide enough power from the USB slot to power a notebook hard drive in an enclosure?

In my experience the answer has been no, which is why I prefer FireWire to USB.

 

[montanachad]

Hackingtosh ahoy, surely?

I priced parts for 8GB of RAM, 5 firewire ports, 64bit Intel mobo and CPU, older lightsrub drive, wireless n/b/g, 500GB hard drive, Kick ass video card, for only 900.00

 

[kaiwai]

This is Crap most camera's I have used have usb2 but they only send out lower quality video or just the stills taken to the card. What about New HD Cameras that use Mini DV tape. The Canon I just used had only Firewire out.

They're still using tape? Who the hell designs these things - have they heard of this little thing called a hard disk? you know, replace the whole idea of a tape with a 160gb hard disk - and store it is a single file which can be accessed from the computer as if it were a disk?

Dear god, who are these idiots who design cameras - they don't seem to have any degree of common-sense what so ever!

 

[corinhorn]

They're still using tape? Who the hell designs these things - have they heard of this little thing called a hard disk? you know, replace the whole idea of a tape with a 160gb hard disk - and store it is a single file which can be accessed from the computer as if it were a disk?

Dear god, who are these idiots who design cameras - they don't seem to have any degree of common-sense what so ever!

Um, tapes are used for DV content. Hard drives are usually used for compress content. If you want DV, tape is the most financially viable option.

 

[synth3tik]

I am fumed about no Firewire on the new MBs.

While everyone is talking about video and HD, let's not forget the bashing we are going to take in the digital world as all (or most) of all the pro audio interfaces are FW400. This is a major bump with anyone in pro audio. There is no way that I can update to a new MB without FW in it.

This is literally going to strand us in audio. While the MBP does have FW800, these devices are not equiped for this.

This is a huge mistake!!!

I have had a lot of people say "why don't you just get a new MBP". We both know how picky FireWire audio interfaces can be. Adding an adapter into the mix will only make matters worse. And it is hard enough to remember to bring everything with you as it is.

I can see it now. I get to the gig. Have the computer, the interface, racks and everything else. Right before the gig starts. "oh no I don't have my FireWire adapter. I also don't think it's far to force feed us the MBP

 

[robotfist]

Mbp???????

People keep talking about not having firewire on the MB. It sucks, but I'm fine with that. The thing that irks me is not having Firewire 400 on the MBP. That is downright ABSURD. Here is why:

1. PREVIOUS STORAGE. - I work in professional video and edit on a MBP. I have terabytes of data stored on FIREWIRE 400 drives. These drives do not have USB 2.0. They are strictly firewire 400 drives. What am I supposed to do with all these drives I can no longer access?

2. PROFESSIONAL VIDEO/AUDIO HARDWARE - A great number of PROFESSIONAL breakout boxes, cameras, and mixers continue to run off FIREWIRE 400 (such as ProTools 003 systems or the Panasonic HVX200 camera). I don't care what Steve Jobs says about consumer gear. The PRO GEAR runs off friggin' FIREWIRE!! By not including Firewire 400 on their MacBook "PRO", Apple has succeeded in making 75 percent of my hardware obsolete in one fell swoop. And this is current hardware that is up to date and still being sold by the manufacturer.

3. FUTURE STORAGE OPTIONS - Reliable Firewire 800 drives are roughly twice as expensive as Firewire 400 drives yet often offer me no great benefit. Yes, they access Photoshop files quicker, but my HD video clips play the same over Firewire 400 as they do 800. USB 2 is not an option when working with large media because it does not have a sustained throughput.

4. FIREWIRE ROBOTS FROM BEYOND - When mysterious space invaders finally discover Earth they will want to communicate peacefully with us through a fast and economical data port. What if those alien robots use firewire 400? We'll all be screwed.

-Firewire Adapters are not a solution. They are extremely buggy and often only work with certain applications.

 

[corinhorn]

People keep talking about not having firewire on the MB. It sucks, but I'm fine with that. The thing that irks me is not having Firewire 400 on the MBP. That is downright ABSURD. Here is why:

1. PREVIOUS STORAGE. - I work in professional video and edit on a MBP. I have terabytes of data stored on FIREWIRE 400 drives. These drives do not have USB 2.0. They are strictly firewire 400 drives. What am I supposed to do with all these drives I can no longer access?

2. PROFESSIONAL VIDEO/AUDIO HARDWARE - A great number of PROFESSIONAL breakout boxes, cameras, and mixers continue to run off FIREWIRE 400 (such as ProTools 003 systems or the Panasonic HVX200 camera). I don't care what Steve Jobs says about consumer gear. The PRO GEAR runs off friggin' FIREWIRE!! By not including Firewire 400 on their MacBook "PRO", Apple has succeeded in making 75 percent of my hardware obsolete in one fell swoop. And this is current hardware that is up to date and still being sold by the manufacturer.

3. FUTURE STORAGE OPTIONS - Reliable Firewire 800 drives are roughly twice as expensive as Firewire 400 drives yet often offer me no great benefit. Yes, they access Photoshop files quicker, but my HD video clips play the same over Firewire 400 as they do 800. USB 2 is not an option when working with large media because it does not have a sustained throughput.

4. FIREWIRE ROBOTS FROM BEYOND - When mysterious space invaders finally discover Earth they will want to communicate peacefully with us through a fast and economical data port. What if those alien robots use firewire 400? We'll all be screwed.

Good news for you. FireWire 800 is backwards compatible. There are 800 to 400 adapters/cables.

 

[pavelbure]

overly manufactured case

maybe if they would have chosen to make the cases the old way instead of making them from a brick the cost could and should be lower and still have out ports.

no wonder they said profit margins would be smaller. they're wasting money on this overly designed case.

 

[localoid]

Good news for you. FireWire 800 is backwards compatible. There are 800 to 400 adapters/cables.

And the bad news is that there isn't a FW800 port on the MacBook.

 

[corinhorn]

And the bad news is that there isn't a FW800 port on the MacBook.

Indeed, but weren't they talking about the MBP?

 

[thedragonden]

Went to the support site

http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/

looked under "MacBook (Late 2008)" and clicked on "iMovie ’08: Camcorder Support"

and under "Tape-based Camcorder Support " it plainly states:

"iMovie works with most Mini DV tape-based camcorders that use a FireWire cable (also known as IEEE 1394 or i.Link) to transfer data. iMovie works with DV (standard definition) or HDV (high definition) formats."

They just don't have a clue.

 

[corinhorn]

Went to the support site

http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/

looked under "MacBook (Late 2008)" and clicked on "iMovie ’08: Camcorder Support"

and under "Tape-based Camcorder Support " it plainly states:

"iMovie works with most Mini DV tape-based camcorders that use a FireWire cable (also known as IEEE 1394 or i.Link) to transfer data. iMovie works with DV (standard definition) or HDV (high definition) formats."

They just don't have a clue.

Wow! That's pathetic!

 

[afrowq]

what a crock of $#it.

"think different" my arse. Apple is now a toy company.

 

[localoid]

Indeed, but weren't they talking about the MBP?

Oh Ok.

Just trying to clarify, since there's been so much talk about the mythical $5 "adapters" in this thread that will fix the Firewire "problem". They pop up again and again on every other page.

 

[ichiro]

I guess my major question is: is what Steve says true?

I have a mini-DV cam from the late 90s that only has firewire, so I honestly don't know....

dude, how do you get from late 90's to last FEW years? 1999 is nearly a decade ago! decade ≠ last few years.

 

[compuguy1088]

I don't think he's that upset with a group of people bitching about firewire when he can sell macbooks to tons and tons of college students who don't even know what firewire is.

If your going on that thread of logic...most college students are not technically inclined with computers. As for me...I do know what firewire is. There is a common trend that for the addition of Firewire 800, there is a premium added over just having USB.