Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[notjustjay]

I have a mini DV camcorder that has USB but I can't seem to get it to transfer to my Macbook without using a windows app. Leopard/iMovie/QT doesn't recgonize it.

USB means MPEG-2. I don't think the old iMovie works with MPEG-2, or any of the other formats, yet.

To clarify, many miniDV camcorders have USB ports, but they are NOT meant for video. They are for accessing still images stored on the memory card. Many cameras are also capable of pretending to be a webcam, and this video stream can be captured over USB, but you are not getting the full resolution/quality of the miniDV format.

The hard-drive based camcorders do use USB to transfer MPEG2 (or whatever) encoded files. But not the miniDV camcorders.

I would love to give a new hard-drive-based HD camera a try, but I've been reading so many things about them being incompatible with iMovie/FCE that I'm still in wait-and-see mode.

 

[Maury]

I think Steve's answer stinks. So I am expected to buy a new camera every two years?

... but you're assuming you ARE expected to buy a new laptop.

Really, people, DUH!

 

[OneMike]

This is one of reasons I'm not upgrading.

 

[Arcady]

The people who posted links to DV camera adapters are not getting it. That doesn't convert FireWire to USB. It translates the DV codec to whatever windows video garbage that USB cameras use. It does not make your USB port into a FireWire port.

I have about 20 FireWire hard drives that are completely worthless with a new MacBook. And I was planning on buying one. The MacBook Pro is too large and too expensive. I can live with a glossy screen (but I still think it sucks) and the lack of a ExpressCard slot, but no FireWire = no sale. It would cost Apple about $1 to add FireWire. The chipset has FireWire in it. All they need is a connector.

 

[sonicwind]

yep. My thoughts exactly, Steve. However, most cameras, phones and many camcorders also use SD cards, which all laptops have had in them for the past few years.

 

[unity]

People who generally buy Macbooks ($999-$1600) do not typically spend $1299 on the Final Cut PRO software. If you're a home user, Apple is clearly steering you towards the low end software, iMovie or FCE.

Exactly. $400 gets you FireWire AND the two video cards. Not much considers the cost of FCPro and a DV camera....

 

[Wotan31]

I don't get what the big deal is. If you need Firewire, just buy the white MacBook. It's even cheaper than any other option. Or just buy a USB to Firewire adapter.

LOL you're as out-of-touch as Steve is! USB does not provide isochronous transfers, critical to real-time audio/video work. Also, there's no such thing as a USB to Firewire adapter, and even if there were, USB2 performance absolutely sucks compared to firewire. I think you need to do your homework before making clueless suggestions.

This is Crap most camera's I have used have usb2 but they only send out lower quality video or just the stills taken to the card. What about New HD Cameras that use Mini DV tape. The Canon I just used had only Firewire out.

You've hit the nail on the head - yes, most cameras from the past 2 or 3 years have a USB2 port - but it's only for low-quality webcam type video and for still photos. If you want the full resolution good stuff, the whole reason you bought the silly camera to begin with, firewire is a *requirement*. No way around it, I don't care what brand of camera you own.

The fact is, Apple made a piss-poor decision here to remove such an important port.

 

[kurzz]

Steve sure knows how to fuel the fire.

 

[happydude]

i'm sorry, but this answer is bullsh#t. the "consumer" model of apple's laptop are more likely to be bought by people who will also own "consumer" models of digital camcorders. if a person isn't able to shell out $4-500 more for a laptop, who expects that same person to shell out $4-500 more for a digital camcorder.

his reasoning is that "HD" camcorders for the past couple years support USB 2.0. great, well the customer for macbooks aren't the people who own HD camcorders, especially from the past couple years when they've all been near $1000 vs "regular" dv camcorders being in the $400-$500 range at top end.

his "reasoning" is flawed.

so, a person who owns a dv camcorder, if they want to stay with apple for laptops, now has to buy the top end laptop when they upgrade or buy a new camcorder. that goes against everything apple has seemingly tried to do - make computing compatible for the average person.

f*ck you steve, and the high horse you rode in on.

 

[Arcady]

This may be a crazy-A$$ idea, and if so, don't hesitate to shoot it down, but...

Would it be possible to import video this way:
1) Connect your MB via USB to a hard drive that has both a USB and a FW port.
2) Connect your video camera to the HD via FW.
3) Mount everything.
4) Suck in the video over this ragtag net using iMovie.

Not elegant, but possible?

No, that won't work.

 

[o0samotech0o]

Just wait and see. I know apple will have their iCamcorder ready, fully compatible with USB, which will suck up your money

-Sam

 

[Adjei]

Apple probably crunched out some numbers and figured it's not worth it to support the niche of owners who require firewire on the macbook, besides the 999 macbook has firewire, go buy that if you need it so badly.

 

[Flobber88]

A friend of mine recently purchased a Dell laptop so he could run Excel - he needs VBA. It had a glossy screen, and after trying it for a few days, has given up in disgust, finding it unable to be used except in cases of highly indirect light.

We went out last night looking for a machine with a matte screen. The only ones we found were last-model MacBook Pros.

So I'm not sure there's anything Apple can do about this, it appears all LCD's now come with glossy screens. True for desktop monitors as well.

Maury

I think the actual display is Matt on the MB/MBP, it's just the piece of glass that makes it "glossy", so assuming this is true, Apple could have easily introduced a matte version as well, but lately Apple seems to be telling consumers what they want rather than the opposite.

 

[Small White Car]

Not to sound like an arse, but everyone here complaining had planned on buying THIS MacBook? What was wrong with the prior version? No one REMOVED FireWire from your current setup.

Of course if your serious about video editing and importing on the road you would get a MacBook Pro.

...

Ok, done with rant...

Well, if you'd read my post on the first page, I think I address every point you raised.

 

[Courtaj]

I would love to give a new hard-drive-based HD camera a try, but I've been reading so many things about them being incompatible with iMovie/FCE that I'm still in wait-and-see mode.

The incompatibility issues have been ironed out. That was before Apple had dropped firewire support on irons.

 

[notjustjay]

... but you're assuming you ARE expected to buy a new laptop.

Really, people, DUH!

You do have a point.. sort of. I won't expect to need a new Apple laptop for a few years, because I already have a nice MacBook Pro. It's got Firewire, so I'm all set.

But in five years when this laptop needs to be replaced, its replacement might not have Firewire. MAYBE then I'll be in a position to buy a new USB HD camcorder. I think this is what Apple expects. But what if I'm not? What if I'm still happy with the camcorder I already have (that cost thousands of dollars)? Camera technology isn't on the same replacement life cycle as computers are.

But people who need a laptop NOW, are stuck.

 

[Fidgetyrat]

Steve sure knows how to fuel the fire.

I don't think he's that upset with a group of people bitching about firewire when he can sell macbooks to tons and tons of college students who don't even know what firewire is.

 

[Adjei]

What angering BS. I mean really, so now I can't use my slightly older camera? Please.

Also, what about HDD's that I am using a Firewire connection for because I've tied up my USB ports?

Face it Apple, you botched a lot things with this upgrade. That's 2 piss poor releases in a row: iPhone 3G and this.

Piss poor upgrade, please, maybe to you, but you're irrelevant, I guess all the millions of people buying the 3g iphone didn't seem to mind and the millions who will buy these laptops won't either.

 

[Tummy]

if a person isn't able to shell out $4-500 more for a laptop, who expects that same person to shell out $4-500 more for a digital camcorder..

Digital HD 1080p camcorders that record to memory are as little as $150 now. Check out Aiptek for example. They're kinda crappy now, but are catching up. In good light, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference between it and HD camcorders costing 5x the price.

Search for examples on http://www.vimeo.com

 

[unity]

Well, if you'd read my post on the first page, I think I address every point you raised.

Nope.

Because if you can spend $12,000 on all those cameras I am sure you can spend $400 for a SLIGHTLY larger laptop. I mean do you shop for the SMALLEST camera?

 

[Dan2k]

Big Mistake Steve,

I use Fire wire all the time.... and Glossy Screens are not a Option for me.... I dont know what your thinking.... I hope you dont start screwing around with the MBP 17" or you will lose a sale.....

 

[MicOSX]

The technology exists to support firewire over ethernet. In theory, couldn't Apple release (yet another) adapter that plugs into the ethernet port?

 

[TheNorthWaves]

apple: I am keeping my old macbook until this is resolved. What ever happened to "think different"?

 

[FasterQuieter]

Me too. If it had a Firewire 800, I'd buy one. I've tried editing with an external USB 2 and it is a joke. Apple know this and this is their way of forcing us to buy the Macbook Pro. Like a previous commenter I already have a $3000 Mac Pro, so I want a cheap laptop. A cheap and very small laptop.

The $999 Macbook is ugly (relatively), old and has crumby integrated graphics. This was never an option for me. I will not pay $700 for a Firewire connection. That is just absurd.
Anyone know if there is an Ethernet to Firewire solution? I read something about the possibility of this the other day. I have no idea if this is a viable solution.

 

[slu]

Not to sound like an arse, but everyone here complaining had planned on buying THIS MacBook? What was wrong with the prior version? No one REMOVED FireWire from your current setup.

Of course if your serious about video editing and importing on the road you would get a MacBook Pro.

Or is this another case of "Well in all honesty I was not going to buy one, I just like to complain."

Sorry guys, but I see this all to often. Remember that the consumer end did not have FireWire til MUCH later in the game.

Also keep in mind that $400 IS $400 dollars, but not a whole lot when you consider the MacBook over a MacBook Pro which will not ONLY have FireWire but ALSO twin video cards - you know, for all you "serious" video editors. And lets not forget a 15" screen over the MacBook's 13" screen. Something else most video guys seem to want.....

So, to put it bluntly if you are this serious about the video thing and can pony up the cash for a DV camera with firewire, spend $400 more for the better machine with FireWire or just pick up the prior model.

Ok, done with rant...

And you need to realize that the video card makes little difference when editing video. The integrated graphics in the previous Macbooks is just fine for FCE or even FCP.