Steve Jobs on Lack of Firewire in MacBooks

[CashGap]

That is categorically untrue regarding the customer. The company's revenue being high has almost nothing to do with rewarding the customer. In fact, in many ways it's the reverse.

It's perspective. You look in the mirror to see who the customer is. Leaders look out ahead.

From your point of view, driving by looking in the mirror, you might be correct. Running the company unprofitably might benefit the past customers. For a while.

Jobs has a healthier perspective. Run the company in the best interest of the future customers (which includes current customer who will repeat) and you'll also maximize shareholder value.

 

[synth3tik]

It's perspective. You look in the mirror to see who the customer is. Leaders look out ahead.

From your point of view, driving by looking in the mirror, you might be correct. Running the company unprofitably might benefit the past customers. For a while.

Jobs has a healthier perspective. Run the company in the best interest of the future customers (which includes current customer who will repeat) and you'll also maximize shareholder value.

Eliminating firewire did nothing for profitability. Chipsets are so cheap and small that from a financial aspect Apple would have not even noticed it.

 

[motulist]

It's perspective. You look in the mirror to see who the customer is. Leaders look out ahead.

From your point of view, driving by looking in the mirror, you might be correct. Running the company unprofitably might benefit the past customers. For a while.

Jobs has a healthier perspective. Run the company in the best interest of the future customers (which includes current customer who will repeat) and you'll also maximize shareholder value.

Did you not read my comment at all? I said that what he's done might be good for the company, but that doesn't mean it's good for the existing customer base, or even that it's good for any customers at all. Look at microsoft, they rarely make the best product, but because of their shrewd business tactics they manage to be the dominant product in many categories and it generates enormous profit for them. But just because they're making the most profit doesn't at all mean they're best serving the consumer's interests.

If Jobs is making decisions that make Apple more profitable, then he's doing his job, and I don't begrudge his actions. But it is completely incorrect for you to say that because the company is more profitable that means the consumer is being better served. That is simply, completely, and 100% false.

 

[John Dillinger]

It's perspective. You look in the mirror to see who the customer is. Leaders look out ahead.

From your point of view, driving by looking in the mirror, you might be correct. Running the company unprofitably might benefit the past customers. For a while.

Jobs has a healthier perspective. Run the company in the best interest of the future customers (which includes current customer who will repeat) and you'll also maximize shareholder value.

Running the company unprofitably? Apples got huge margins, boasting mega profits each year. Killing firewire on the macbook didnt get them extra macbook customers. The new design will. Question is whether removing firewire really will make more get the pro, just for firewire. I dont think they added enough to the MBP.

Right now to me it seems a poor deal, especially if you dont need/use firewire. And now you dont even have the prestige of aluminium over plastic, as they both look the same.
Theres just no in-betweens with the new lineup. How many on this thread have talked about taking their money elsewhere? What were you saying about visionary again They should have just kept the firewire on the new macbooks and everyones happy. Consumers and hobbyist's, pros whatever. Then do more to make the MBP more 'pro' and special. And sold both equally well. "Pro's" are an afterthought now even, the lack of matte screen reflects this.

Sure everyone likes to make money, apple just seem to be real blatant about it..

 

[BenRoethig]

If Jobs is making decisions that make Apple more profitable, then he's doing his job, and I don't begrudge his actions. But it is completely incorrect for you to say that because the company is more profitable that means the consumer is being better served. That is simply, completely, and 100% false.

That depends. Jobs' job is to make sure that Apple makes profit now only now, but in the future as well. His decisions are rubbing some long time Mac users the wrong way and the ones he's bringing in are not likely to be as loyal or as willing to make the kind of sacrifices we have. You also have windows 7 looming which is getting some pretty positive feedback. I don't want to see Apple and the Mac platform make all these gains only to have it all come crashing down again because of arrogance and an inflexible doctrine. It's not like it would take very many changes to rectify the situation either.

 

[motulist]

That depends. Jobs' job is to make sure that Apple makes profit now only now, but in the future as well. His decisions are rubbing some long time Mac users the wrong way and the ones he's bringing in are not likely to be as loyal or as willing to make the kind of sacrifices we have. You also have windows 7 looming which is getting some pretty positive feedback. I don't want to see Apple and the Mac platform make all these gains only to have it all come crashing down again because of arrogance and an inflexible doctrine. It's not like it would take very many changes to rectify the situation either.

I agree with you 100%, the only reason why I stated it that way is because I don't know enough about Apple's business plans to make an educated assumption about what decisions will or won't help the company financially. For all I know Apple may be purposely trying to stop serving the traditional Mac user because Apple thinks it would be more profitable to make fewer unique products and just have one nearly homogenous product line that appeals to the average low-requirements user. Now I don't think that's really what Apple is thinking, but clearly Apple's laptop updates this generation have shown us that they're testing the waters for the idea of serving fewer customer needs and thus maybe selling fewer units, but making more profit overall since the products are cheaper to produce since both laptop lines are so similar now. Personally I think that abandoning the prosumer and pro user needs is a sure fire way to make less money over the long haul, but Jobs has been great at improving Apple's profits for years now, so it's hard to second guess him.

Anyway, all that is beside the point. The point is that except at the extreme ends of the scale, a company's profitability is in no way shape or form an indicator of how well that company is serving the consumer. And even at the extreme ends of the scale, a company's profitability and the level to which they serve the consumer's need is only a loose correlation.

In summary:

company profit level ≠ consumer needs being served

 

[the Helix]

another business axiom...

In summary:
company profit level ≠ consumer needs being served

That is true only up to a certain point. There is another business axiom that needs to be considered and it involves supply and demand: at a certain point, when the supply no longer fulfills what the consumer needs, i.e. when consumers needs are no longer being met, there will necessarily be a decline in demand.

Moreover, consumers by nature, tend to be fickle (Mac die hards, which Apple is now alienating, are an exception) and these new consumers will move on just as quickly as they jumped on. Bottom line: good business sense will never preclude the consumer from the equation.

Apple made a mistake pure and simple by omitting FW. It would have cost them practically nothing. Now they will pay in the long run by having betrayed their most faithful consumers.

 

[cheesymogul]

Let's not forget, it is NOT the hardware that lures hordes of switchers into Apple camp. It's simply because they are sick and tired of Windows!
These desperate M$ victims would buy ANY MACHINE with a reliable, easy to use OS that needs no tinkering (if it was plug and play, they would go Ubuntu or any other Linux in a heartbeat).

Do you honestly think IF Vista/XP were at least 80% as reliable and easy to use as Leopard, the fancy $1300 Macbook would still reach higher sales figures than a $800 HP or Lenovo notebook with similar or even better interfaces (i.e. PCexpress)?

If you are dealing in a proprietary market, you have THE OBLIGATION to give the people the widest variety of options, otherwise you'll lose customers in the long run. Especially during such economically difficult times where people are thinking twice before buying, and buy only what fits their needs.

Therefore it is extremely dangerous to abandon the hardcore high-end users. They might be a much smaller figure on the sales chart – but these are the people more likely equipped with the ability and ingenuity to make Hackintoshs work. Not with the goal to save money like the current Hackintosh community does. But to make OSX run on the best hardware available on the planet.

EFIX is just the beginning...

 

[BenRoethig]

Let's not forget, it is NOT the hardware that lures hordes of switchers into Apple camp. It's simply because they are sick and tired of Windows!
These desperate M$ victims would buy ANY MACHINE with a reliable, easy to use OS that needs no tinkering (if it was plug and play, they would go Ubuntu or any other Linux in a heartbeat).

Do you honestly think IF Vista/XP were at least 80% as reliable and easy to use as Leopard, the fancy $1300 Macbook would still reach higher sales figures than a $800 HP or Lenovo notebook with similar or even better interfaces (i.e. PCexpress)?

If you are dealing in a proprietary market, you have THE OBLIGATION to give the people the widest variety of options, otherwise you'll lose customers in the long run. Especially during such economically difficult times where people are thinking twice before buying, and buy only what fits their needs.

That's why windows 7 has me concerned. From the early reviews, it looks like Microsoft is starting to get their act together. Most of the original iMac switchers switched back. It's a great accomplishment to sell one mac to them, but the goal should be to keep them happy enough to buy a second.

Therefore it is extremely dangerous to abandon the hardcore high-end users. They might be a much smaller figure on the sales chart – but these are the people more likely equipped with the ability and ingenuity to make Hackintoshs work. Not with the goal to save money like the current Hackintosh community does. But to make OSX run on the best hardware available on the planet.

EFIX is just the beginning...

Not so much about hackintoshes, but that is the who they need to hang on to. If they feel taken advantage of or that they no longer have aplace here and if windows 7 is any good, you could see, what used to be your base not too long ago doing their own version of a switch. The constant ridicule of the Apple cam do no wrong fanboys only exacerbates the situation.

 

[AidenShaw]

That's why windows 7 has me concerned.
...

If they feel taken advantage of or that they no longer have aplace here and if windows 7 is any good, you could see, what used to be your base not too long ago doing their own version of a switch. The constant ridicule of the Apple can do no wrong fanboys only exacerbates the situation.

Interesting, and people should realize that Win7 doesn't have to be markedly better than OSX 10.6 in order for this reversal of switchers to happen. It doesn't even need to be as "good" as OSX, just close. ("good" of course is subjective and a matter of individual taste)

Despite Apple's TV adverts, people do have hassles with Apples -- all is not perfect in The Steve's fantasy land.

So, Windows 7 plus those $699 quad-core 4GiB 1TB Blu-ray mini-towers will make those all-in-ones a harder sell....

 

[danny_w]

Interesting, and people should realize that Win7 doesn't have to be markedly better than OSX 10.6 in order for this reversal of switchers to happen.

Despite Apple's TV adverts, people do have hassles with Apples -- all is not perfect in The Steve's fantasy land.

So, Windows 7 plus those $699 quad-core 4GiB 1TB Blu-ray mini-towers will make those all-in-ones a harder sell....

Actually Win7 doesn't even have to be as good as OS X, as long as it is close those who are frustrated may be willing to give it a try.

 

[robanga]

it looks like Microsoft is starting to get their act together. Most of the original iMac switchers switched back. .

Can you give your source for this switch back trend? Certainly it can not be the sales figures of new computers. (Where the market share growth is consistently showing Apple gaining)

Really those who are concerned and see a great utopia coming in Windows 7 should really go there, i totally agree.

I will have a Win 7 machine in the house as I do Vista and XP now, its a great counterbalance to the joy of OS X.

 

[Sehnsucht]

I have an old tv that has S-Video, and I can't afford a new one, and now I can't use that anymore!!!!11!! Why don't we have S-Video output on our laptops anymore (for the past 3 years?!?!?) !!??!?! ACCOMMODATE MY OLDER STUFF.

I have a Apple Dot Matrix printer from 1983 that I COULD STILL USE if it weren't for "The Steve" deciding for us which ports we need and which ones we don't. Forget FireWire, where's the freakin' parallel port??

(sarcasm)

WTF is S-video?

 

[danny_w]

I have a Apple Dot Matrix printer from 1983 that I COULD STILL USE if it weren't for "The Steve" deciding for us which ports we need and which ones we don't. Forget FireWire, where's the freakin' parallel port??

(sarcasm)

WTF is S-video?

A dot matrix printer from 1983 is a little different case than firewire equipment that is still being sold but can't be used any longer. And S-Video adapters were avaialble for all Macs until the current unibody models, which silently removed the feature and now no cable is available.

 

[Sehnsucht]

A dot matrix printer from 1983 is a little different case than firewire equipment that is still being sold but can't be used any longer. And S-Video adapters were avaialble for all Macs until the current unibody models, which silently removed the feature and now no cable is available.

Yes I know about FireWire and I agree, I was just having some fun with the S-video statement. Again I ask, "WTF is S-video"?! All recent and even somewhat-recent displays use DVI and/or VGA and/or DisplayPort and/or HDMI. Sorry but Apple isn't going to put an S-video port on any more of their computers, and the reaction (or lack of one) to the discontinued S-video adapter was telling. I don't think MR had a "Steve Jobs on Lack of S-video in MacBooks" thread with 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 people bitching and screaming.

 

[Tosser]

A dot matrix printer from 1983 is a little different case than firewire equipment that is still being sold but can't be used any longer. And S-Video adapters were avaialble for all Macs until the current unibody models, which silently removed the feature and now no cable is available.

I cannot believe that after more than 2300 posts people still try to make the argument that Firewire is redundant and "too old" a technology. I guess some people will never learn. They seem to think that popular is the new supreme and that because McDonald's doesn't sell haute cuisine, haute cuisine isn't any good, and that noone should be able to buy or eat anything but a Big Mac. To hell with the forks!

 

[danny_w]

Yes I know about FireWire and I agree, I was just having some fun with the S-video statement. Again I ask, "WTF is S-video"?! All recent and even somewhat-recent displays use DVI and/or VGA and/or DisplayPort and/or HDMI. Sorry but Apple isn't going to put an S-video port on any more of their computers, and the reaction (or lack of one) to the discontinued S-video adapter was telling. I don't think MR had a "Steve Jobs on Lack of S-video in MacBooks" thread with 5,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 people bitching and screaming.

Yes I know, but there are plenty of people bemoaning the loss of S-Video. Even though all recent vintage tv's have other methods of connection, this still leaves plenty of people out in the cold:

1) Many people want to hook up at a school or hotel or convention where, although the other connectors may be available, they may not be accessible. This involves plenty of people that need to use their computer to give a presentation. There are numerous threads on the Apple forums concerning this, and the shock at finding it out only after getting the computer home.

2) My tv (1999 52" Hitachi Ultravision that cost almost $3000) and many other people's tv's don't have the connectors you mention, at least not on the front panel. Mine has composite, s_video, and component only.

 

[Eric S.]

I have a Apple Dot Matrix printer from 1983 that I COULD STILL USE if it weren't for "The Steve" deciding for us which ports we need and which ones we don't. Forget FireWire, where's the freakin' parallel port??

(sarcasm)

Yeah, I have a circa 1990 Personal LaserWriter NT that only lacks a serial port. I paid $1700 for it new, to go along with my $8800 Mac IIci (that I got for half price), which is why I always chuckle when people complain that Macs are too high-priced today.

But I'm still going to miss Firewire on my new Macbook.

 

[BenRoethig]

Can you give your source for this switch back trend? Certainly it can not be the sales figures of new computers. (Where the market share growth is consistently showing Apple gaining)

Try looking at news articles from 2000-04 or when Mac market share was declining.

Really those who are concerned and see a great utopia coming in Windows 7 should really go there, i totally agree.

Who said anything about a utopia. It just has to be usable.

I will have a Win 7 machine in the house as I do Vista and XP now, its a great counterbalance to the joy of OS X.

Mac OS X is a joy. Unfortunately you have to pay almost three grand for the one computer in Apple's lineup that can actually take advantage of the benefits of the OS. The Ive designed artsy crap like the iMac, Mini, and both laptops are severely limited in capability by their aesthetics first design philosophy.

Yeah, I have a circa 1990 Personal LaserWriter NT that only lacks a serial port. I paid $1700 for it new, to go along with my $8800 Mac IIci (that I got for half price), which is why I always chuckle when people complain that Macs are too high-priced today.

But I'm still going to miss Firewire on my new Macbook.

in 1990 you didn't have to pay close to $200 a month for cable, internet, and cell phone bills.

 

[ateslik]

I went to the Apple store at Roosevelt Field in New York this holiday weekend. What a zoo. You could barely get into the store it was so packed. While my wife picked up some things I decided to go take another look at the macbook.

Every device in the store had a line to view it - at least 3 people deep... except the macbook. There was no one there. I walked right up to it. A store worker happened to be there with a customer looking at something else. When he finished I asked him, "How are these macbooks selling without the firewire?". He replied, "Well, I think they made a mistake by not including it." I agreed and left.

Hopefully the holiday season financials will drive home the shortsightedness of this decision and result in firewire appearing in all models until a suitable substitute is available (and by suitable I mean realtime friendly for audio and video - not just a bunch of burst rate statistics that don't work).

 

[Sehnsucht]

I cannot believe that after more than 2300 posts people still try to make the argument that Firewire is redundant and "too old" a technology. I guess some people will never learn.

I meant S-video is the outdated technology, not FireWire. There's a ton of people who have FireWire external hard drives (I do), FireWire cameras, FireWire audio equipment, etc. But S-video????

P.S. I don't really have an Apple Dot Matrix printer.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Every device in the store had a line to view it - at least 3 people deep... except the macbook. There was no one there. I walked right up to it. A store worker happened to be there with a customer looking at something else. When he finished I asked him, "How are these macbooks selling without the firewire?". He replied, "Well, I think they made a mistake by not including it." I agreed and left.

You probably shouldn't have mentioned which Apple store it was...because "The Steve" is probably reading this...what if he's already called them up and fired that poor guy?? Hee hee hee.

 

[vvebsta]

Every device in the store had a line to view it - at least 3 people deep... except the macbook. There was no one there. I walked right up to it. A store worker happened to be there with a customer looking at something else. When he finished I asked him, "How are these macbooks selling without the firewire?". He replied, "Well, I think they made a mistake by not including it." I agreed and left.

This has got to be my favorite post of this thread. I too have noticed the lack of attention in the Apple store. I've been there twice in the last week and haven't seen anyone walk out with a MacBook yet. Way to go public!

I love how this thread doesn't quit. I hope Apple is swapping out a USB for a FireWire 800 port in their MacBook build as we speak. Not announcing a revision in their January event would just seem foolish (along with push notification, but that's for another thread )

 

[darwinian]

This has got to be my favorite post of this thread. I too have noticed the lack of attention in the Apple store. I've been there twice in the last week and haven't seen anyone walk out with a MacBook yet. Way to go public!

I love how this thread doesn't quit. I hope Apple is swapping out a USB for a FireWire 800 port in their MacBook build as we speak. Not announcing a revision in their January event would just seem foolish (along with push notification, but that's for another thread )

I wonder how many people that would infuriate (irrespective of the merits of it, since they did buy it). It's obvious to us that they should just do it at MW.

 

[CyberBob859]

It's obvious to us that they should just do it at MW.

I don't think they would make a public announcement, especially not as soon as MacWorld. It would be an admission of a mistake, and that ruins their image. *IF* they add a FW port, it would probably happen later in 2009 and a slipstream release, like when they bump up the processor speed.

However, I still wouldn't hold my breath.