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Steve Jobs Ranked as 42nd Richest American With Net Worth of $6.1 Billion

weespeed said:
Ok, once again.
If employer and employee are in cohesion with their stories about the 'gift' the IRS can't prove they did anything wrong. And yes it's illegal to avoid taxes, no one said otherwise.
It's hard to prove that you're purposely avoiding paying the taxes on it.
That's why it's a loophole.

Form IRS regarding gifts. "What is considered a gift?
Any transfer to an individual, either directly or indirectly, where full consideration (measured in money or money's worth) is not received in return."
http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=108139,00.html
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Yeah, you keep citing that and ignoring the fact that "gifts" as such between employers and employees are not even permitted. If you are audited (and I'm sure SJ has been more than once), any examiner worth anything assigned to work on such a high-profile return is going to look for any evidence of off-the-books transfers that weren't reported and if you have millions in bank accounts you can't account for or explain, well, I hope you enjoy getting prosecuted.

So unless you have some information that Apple and SJ conspire to transfer funds or assets without reporting them, you don't have any point (and if they were doing such a thing, it wouldn't be called a loophole (which is generally legal and a function of following the letter of the law), it would be evasion (which definitely is not).)
 
burgundyyears said:
Yeah, you keep citing that and ignoring the fact that "gifts" as such between employers and employees are not even permitted. If you are audited (and I'm sure SJ has been more than once), any examiner worth anything assigned to work on such a high-profile return is going to look for any evidence of off-the-books transfers that weren't reported and if you have millions in bank accounts you can't account for or explain, well, I hope you enjoy getting prosecuted.

So unless you have some information that Apple and SJ conspire to transfer funds or assets without reporting them, you don't have any point (and if they were doing such a thing, it wouldn't be called a loophole (which is generally legal and a function of following the letter of the law), it would be evasion (which definitely is not).)
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What are you talking about?? Are you even reading what's been discussed? Who said anything about transferring funds without reporting it?? WHO??

We were discussing 'gifts' and 'gift taxes' associated with them. And if there's a gift tax then wouldn't that have been reported to the IRS as such?? I suggest you go back to page 6 and re-read up to your post and tell me how it is relevant.
 
weespeed said:
What are you talking about?? Are you even reading what's been discussed? Who said anything about transferring funds without reporting it?? WHO??

We were discussing 'gifts' and 'gift taxes' associated with them. And if there's a gift tax then wouldn't that have been reported to the IRS as such?? I suggest you go back to page 6 and re-read up to your post and tell me how it is relevant.
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Any compensation from an employer to an employee would not be subject to gift taxes even if it is called a gift. It would simply be taxed as part of the employee's gross income.
 
weespeed said:
We were discussing 'gifts' and 'gift taxes' associated with them. And if there's a gift tax then wouldn't that have been reported to the IRS as such?? I suggest you go back to page 6 and re-read up to your post and tell me how it is relevant.
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Yeah, you and/or Mattie keep saying Apple uses gifting to give Steve Jobs things or money instead of through a salary and thus magically income taxes are not paid because it's a gift and thus they are using some sort of loophole you think exists to avoid income taxation.

Steve Jobs is an employee of Apple and any asset given to him of any significant value is considered income of his and is subject to being treated as income. Period. Apple cannot use the IRS definition of a gift to give SJ pretty much anything of more than de minimis value. The IRS definition of a gift is not even relevant because Apple cannot use it to give Steve Jobs anything. Steve Jobs, Apple, and gifts are three things that don't go together. What is so hard about this?
 
Mr. Jobs, While you may (or may not) be giving stuff away, can I please ask you for the name of a very good artist that is willing to work on one of my apps and does not need lots of money? (Starving collage student would be great.)

Thanks!
 
BaldiMac said:
Any compensation from a employer to an employee would not be subject to gift taxes even if it is called a gift. It would simply be taxed as part of the employee's gross income.
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Yes, the key word here is 'compensation'. In that case it's income.
Gifts are given with nothing expected in return.
 
Somehow, people have started six different arguments in a thread about some guy's money. You folks amaze me.
 
eye said:
Somehow, people have started six different arguments in a thread about some guy's money. You folks amaze me.
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Haha, just killing time.
But I do think it has to do with how much money we are talking about. 6.1 billion is...well a whole lot of cheese.
 
weespeed said:
Yes, the key word here is 'compensation'. In that case it's income.
Gifts are given with nothing expected in return.
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That cannot happen in an employer/employee relationship. Read the link that burgundyyears has provided. Gifts from the employer are considered part of an employee's gross income.
 
BaldiMac said:
That cannot happen in an employer/employee relationship. Read the link that burgundyyears has provided. Gifts from the employer are considered part of an employee's gross income.
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You know, burgundyyears is correct. I was not thinking in terms of employee/employer. Was thinking in terms of just 'gifts' in general..
So yeah in this case 'gifts' would not be relevent.
 
4nNtt said:
I don't understand the point of the random college dropout line at the end. Are they trying to sensationalize the paragraph or throw in some unrelated jab at the US educational system?
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That comes across as an hermeneutic of suspicion. My interpretation would more that it doesn't take fancy and advanced degrees in order to be successful.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
Steve makes $1 a year like other CEO's to dodge income tax. Instead he receives "gifts" and instead pays the much lower capital gain on it. For example a few years ago Steve was "gifted" a private jet and a few years after a "gift" of a few million dollars. Its just a way too loophole taxes.
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You really hate Apple and Steve Jobs, don't you?
 
Apple!Fre@k said:
That's the only thing I dislike about Jobs. I remember when he gave $300 to a charity a couple of years ago it was a news story because a billionaire was giving $300. That's like a millionaire writing a check for 3 cents.

Personally, I don't see how someone of that wealth could not give back. If you have $6 billion, you could give away $5 billion and still have enough for 100 lifetimes.
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Then by your logic, if you make $40,000/yr, you should be giving away $30,000 of it to charity. Put your money where your mouth is freak.

It's Steve's money, he can do what he wants with it. Besides, what about all the other organizations that Bill Gates supports that aren't so friendly.

I give to charity once a month, even I can't afford it, so you may want to bite your tongue before you rebute.
 
"gifts"

In order to "gift" an employee above a certain amount, you have to give them not only the gift, but also send the IRS enough cash to pay for the tax due on both gift plus the tax reimbursement itself.

e.g. to gift a $1 item (over the insignificant gift limit) to someone in the 45% tax bracket, you would have to give them the $1 item, plus an additional 82 cents to pay the tax on $1.82. So the $40M "gift" Gulfstream jet cost Apple $40M + $33M, the $33M as compensation for the 45% tax on the total.


DISCLAIMER: IANATaxL
 
progx said:
Then by your logic, if you make $40,000/yr, you should be giving away $30,000 of it to charity. Put your money where your mouth is freak.

It's Steve's money, he can do what he wants with it. Besides, what about all the other organizations that Bill Gates supports that aren't so friendly.

I give to charity once a month, even I can't afford it, so you may want to bite your tongue before you rebute.
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:rolleyes: The logic was that Jobs could be comfortable with "only" a billion...a person with $10,000 not so much (at least in the US)
 
gnasher729 said:
You really hate Apple and Steve Jobs, don't you?
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Not one bit. Worked for the company for over 3 years and enjoyed it very much. I design and manage Apple infrastructure for a major media conglom and own thousands and thousands of dollars of Apple equipment.

I am not a blind lover of everything Steve and Apple.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
Not one bit. Worked for the company for over 3 years and enjoyed it very much. I design and manage Apple infrastructure for a major media conglom and own thousands and thousands of dollars of Apple equipment.

I am not a blind lover of everything Steve and Apple.
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Well, you might forgive people for doubting you when you start making stuff up about gifts and Apple and Steve Jobs.
 
KirkL said:
The logic was that Jobs could be comfortable with "only" a billion...a person with $10,000 not so much (at least in the US)
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Some research says that general happiness only requires an income of around $75k per year (maybe adjusted for their region's average cost of living). Above that it's mostly about power, ego, competition, etc. Some people collect farmville credits, some billions. At least the billions end up providing jobs (private jet and yacht builders, movie production company employee's) and eventually either big charitable organizations or big inheritance taxes.
 
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