Steve Jobs Suggests Blu-ray Not Coming to Mac Anytime Soon

[toke lahti]

It will be interesting to see how the DRM aspect of this issue effects the outcome as time goes by. I can't be the only one who refused to buy music from Apple until they offered it DRM free and at higher quality. At that point I stopped buying CD's and ripping them.

My movie habits have followed suit: I will buy most movies on DVD because I know I'll be able to watch them one way or another in 10 years time. Classic movies, I'll buy the Blu Ray version. The ideal though is Blu Rays that come with a DVD copy.

If DRM on movies isn't circumvented, it largely helps to ensure that your copy of that title dies with the format it is distributed in. Charity shops in the UK are stuffed to the gills with VHS tapes nobody wants cluttering up their homes anymore and in that sense, I think digital downloads have so much to offer....Anybody remember those CD towers that used to take up space in the living room that someone would always knock flying when slightly drunk? Personally I like the clutter free nature of digital copies, but they have to be DRM free.

The issue of piracy will always be there, and I think ultimately people have to be trusted to do the right thing. Of course some won't but DRM makes no difference to those sorts of people anyway.

Some of us are not happy with current quality of iTunes (256kb AAC).
At least when you can have this shiny standard from 70s' that has higher quality (cd).
I'm pretty amazed that still in 2011, digital music is not sold in ALAC.
Since I have always had trouble fitting all music I want to my phone, I still buy cd's and have ripped .wav as back-up. If and when better compression technologies arrive, I can re-encode the music to have more in my phone.
I use lossless with computers and Nero's VBR AAC with phone.
Having multiple encodings is only possible by buying cd.
Btw, cd is the only reason they do offer drm-free music. There's no point selling drm-music, when everybody can buy drm-free cd (and p2p that to others..).
Video content is not available (at least in HD) without drm, so I think they will stick with drm for at least a decade.
There's also big difference in business logic between music and movies. Musicians can earn with live performance, but movies can't.

So cd's are clutter for you, but dvd's and bd's are not?
I still like to keep also cd's in a bookshelf and sometimes I even use them.
And it's nice to know that you always have hard copy as a back-up.
Sometimes it is just easier to look at them and pick few to go, without all copying and deleting with multiple devices and storages.
And for the kids, physical copies are so easy, just insert the disc and watch. We don't have computers in every rooms and kids don't have their own computers and using htpc & nas would be less easy for them.
And I think same goes for 90% of population, inserting a disc and hitting play is so damn simple.
I guess that's also why content owners still use drm.
When more than half of consumers can rip bd to nas and torrent images, they will think again. But not before...

 

[MorphingDragon]

Actually, at present time, saying no to physical media, is saying no to quality. This may of course change in the future, but there is no high quality streaming/downloading service available. And when there is, most of the planet will not have it.

If you like good quality, how you can hate bd, when it's the only distribution media with good quality?

You know neither of you have still answered my question. How is hating BD hating on quality?

 

[AidenShaw]

You know neither of you have still answered my question. How is hating BD hating on quality?

That's simply a stupid question. (In American English, it would be "neither of you have *yet* answered", but that's a cultural anomaly.)

We love all of the legal options for 40 Mbps 1080p video with 8 channel lossless audio. We love all of them.

All one of them - BD.

 

[Gomff]

So cd's are clutter for you, but dvd's and bd's are not?
I still like to keep also cd's in a bookshelf and sometimes I even use them.
And it's nice to know that you always have hard copy as a back-up.
Sometimes it is just easier to look at them and pick few to go, without all copying and deleting with multiple devices and storages.
And for the kids, physical copies are so easy, just insert the disc and watch. We don't have computers in every rooms and kids don't have their own computers and using htpc & nas would be less easy for them.
And I think same goes for 90% of population, inserting a disc and hitting play is so damn simple.
I guess that's also why content owners still use drm.
When more than half of consumers can rip bd to nas and torrent images, they will think again. But not before...

OK, I take your points about quality of audio, although for me iTunes is good enough.....I grew up with Vinyl and Cassettes which had clicks and hiss respectively so for me it's relative. Personally, I'll take the hit on extra quality for the convenience of digital since for me it's a technical difference that my ears can't distinguish between.

Yes, Blu Ray and DVD's are clutter also, which is why I usually rip my DVDs and then they go down in the cellar, next to the crate with all my CD's . The Blu Rays stay put away in a cupboard out of sight. We don't have kids, just a dog who used to like the taste of DVD cases so for our domestic situation, stuff like that is better tucked away. But you know, each to their own....No point getting bent out of shape over it.

Regarding Blu Ray ripping....Isn't that already possible? Maybe I have my wires crossed but I thought that the DRM on Blu Ray had been defeated.

 

[Gomff]

You know neither of you have still answered my question. How is hating BD hating on quality?

Umm.....Never said I did hate Blu Ray

 

[toke lahti]

You know neither of you have still answered my question. How is hating BD hating on quality?

Having hard time following my extermely complicated logics?
IF
bd is the only good quality distribution
AND
you hate bd
THEN
you hate the only good quality distribution
WHICH MEANS
you hate good quality
...

 

[toke lahti]

OK, I take your points about quality of audio, although for me iTunes is good enough.....I grew up with Vinyl and Cassettes which had clicks and hiss respectively so for me it's relative. Personally, I'll take the hit on extra quality for the convenience of digital since for me it's a technical difference that my ears can't distinguish between.

Yes, Blu Ray and DVD's are clutter also, which is why I usually rip my DVDs and then they go down in the cellar, next to the crate with all my CD's . The Blu Rays stay put away in a cupboard out of sight. We don't have kids, just a dog who used to like the taste of DVD cases so for our domestic situation, stuff like that is better tucked away. But you know, each to their own....No point getting bent out of shape over it.

Regarding Blu Ray ripping....Isn't that already possible? Maybe I have my wires crossed but I thought that the DRM on Blu Ray had been defeated.

People usually think that there's something wrong with their ears, when it's usually just about how analythically you listen and with what equipment.
I suggest not to listen analythically iTunes music with Genelecs...

First thing I found interesting about iTunes was LP. First time digital offers something more than that cd from 70s'. Just wondering why iTunesLP isn't any more popular?

Okay, you do keep your cd's in the cellar, that makes sense. There has been so many people preaching here that you should put your cd's in a landfill...

Every drm has been or will be cracked.
That's not the economical point.
It's about how common the circumventing is.

 

[Porco]

Today I watched Legend of the Guardians, visually stunning.
I paid £9.49 for the Blu-ray, DVD and Digital Copy (which you redeem via iTunes, but the file is on the DVD) on Amazon.

iTunes UK has it in standard def only for £9.99.

er...

 

[Samppaa]

We shall see who laughs the last about macs not having blueray. Soon it's all about digital distribution.

 

[CWallace]

Today I watched Legend of the Guardians, visually stunning.
I paid £9.49 for the Blu-ray, DVD and Digital Copy (which you redeem via iTunes, but the file is on the DVD) on Amazon.

iTunes UK has it in standard def only for £9.99.

er...

I can rent "Let Me In" in HD, but can't buy it in HD, which is a annoying.

But I fully expect this is not Apple fracking with me, but the studios preventing Apple from offering the HD version for sale.

(Not to imply you're blaming Apple for such situations, but I get the feeling some people assume that Apple alone decides what content is available on the iTunes Store, when I am positive it's the labels and studios that decide and Apple is forced to implement those decisions to get what content they do have).

 

[MorphingDragon]

Having hard time following my extermely complicated logics?
IF
p = bd is the only good quality distribution
AND
q = you hate bd
THEN
r = you hate the only good quality distribution
WHICH MEANS
s = you hate good quality
...

I'm having no issue following your logic.

(p ^ q) -> r <=> s, is not a valid statement (WFF). It is therefore entirely within reason for someone to hate BD but not hate good quality media. Not to mention what you suggest is also a critical thinking fallacy.

So I ask again , how does hating BD mean you hate quality?

That's simply a stupid question. (In American English, it would be "neither of you have *yet* answered", but that's a cultural anomaly.)

We love all of the legal options for 40 Mbps 1080p video with 8 channel lossless audio. We love all of them.

All one of them - BD.

But are YOU actually going to answer my question? Mr Non. Answer.

 

[samcraig]

I'm having no issue following your logic.

(p ^ q) -> r <=> s, is not a valid statement (WFF). It is therefore entirely within reason for someone to hate BD but not hate good quality media. Not to mention what you suggest is also a critical thinking fallacy.

So I ask again , how does hating BD mean you hate quality?




But are YOU actually going to answer my question? Mr Non. Answer.

Ok - what good quality media do you like and not hate?

 

[AidenShaw]

But are YOU actually going to answer my question? Mr Non. Answer.

Several of us have already attempted to answer - which is to say that if you dislike the only legal high-quality movie distribution and refuse to buy into it, you must not like quality that much.

On the other hand, you could dislike BD yet buy them anyway, then your desire for quality would be stronger than your hate.

Only a pedant could fail to see this.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Several of us have already attempted to answer - which is to say that if you dislike the only legal high-quality movie distribution and refuse to buy into it, you must not like quality that much.

I've been asking for the reasoning behind the assumption the if you dislike/hate/herpderp BD media that you dislike high quality media. Being the only legal route currently in most countries isn't much of a reason for the assumption, we do not have any other things to compare behaviour against.

BD being the "only only legal high-quality movie distribution" is irrelevant to whether you enjoy/dislike quality media or not. BD is only a medium, People can still entertain high quality movies through cinema or other means.

On the other hand, you could dislike BD yet buy them anyway, then your desire for quality would be stronger than your hate.

But the two aren't linked, they are forced to buy BluRay because it is the only option to them for one reason or another. If there was another medium equal to BD which got similar treatment, then you could say that they dislike quality media. But to say otherwise currently is a fallacy.

Only a pedant could fail to see this.

I'd rather be a pedantic pedant even than label one's thoughts and opinions through assumption.

Ok - what good quality media do you like and not hate?

In general or just Movies?

Music - CDs and/or FLAC/ALAC rips of them, Vinyl
Games - Anything really VIA DD or Disc with realistic DRM. Not afraid not strip out some of the more draconic stuff EA or Ubisoft make.
Movies - Cinema Theatres, Film Reel. BD Rips - If they offered DD equal in "Good Quality" I would happily pay for also.

 

[samcraig]

I've been asking for the reasoning behind the assumption the if you dislike/hate/herpderp BD media that you dislike high quality media.

BD being the "only only legal high-quality movie distribution" is irrelevant to whether you enjoy/dislike quality media or not. BD is only a medium, People can still entertain high quality movies through cinema or other means.



But the two aren't linked, they are forced to buy BluRay because it is the only option to them for one reason or another. If there was another medium equal to BD which got similar treatment, then you could say that they dislike quality media. But to say otherwise currently is a fallacy.



I'd rather be a pedantic pedant even than label one's thoughts and opinions through assumption.



In general or just Movies?

Music - CDs, Vinyl
Games - Anything really VIA DD or Disc with realistic DRM. Not afraid not strip out some of the more draconic stuff EA or Ubisoft make.
Movies - Cinema Theatres, Film Reel. BD Rips.

Now you're just ridiculous and being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Really? You like BD rips but you don't like BD? How can you have one without the other.

ANd we were (honestly now) talking about HOME media.

When was the last time you could go buy the latest flick to play at home on celluloid?

Don't bother responding - I doubt there's anything you can say that would "save" your argument.

 

[416049]

Now you're just ridiculous and being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

Really? You like BD rips but you don't like BD? How can you have one without the other.

ANd we were (honestly now) talking about HOME media.

When was the last time you could go buy the latest flick to play at home on celluloid?

Don't bother responding - I doubt there's anything you can say that would "save" your argument.

Maybe all movies could be downloaded in Bluray Quality (in the future) however in current times I love Bluray and watching it on my PS3 is simply amazing.

 

[MorphingDragon]

Now you're just ridiculous and being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

OK Then... Stop labling people's opinions then.

Really? You like BD rips but you don't like BD? How can you have one without the other.

I don't have to deal with all that I loathe with BD. No device restriction, no media player restriction, no screen restriction, no expensive equipment, no plastic case taking up space, Instant viewing, portability, OS Agnostacy, freedom to put on protable devices. If the movie distributors offered Full Quality DDs I would happily donwload them, just because I dislike BD doesn't mean I dislike high quality media.

ANd we were (honestly now) talking about HOME media.

But I thought avid movie goer's home was the cinema?

When was the last time you could go buy the latest flick to play at home on celluloid?

Pay enough cash and you can get anything.

I have old movies that no one would care to put on BD. In fact next month Im getting them put onto PC by a resotaration company.

Don't bother responding - I doubt there's anything you can say that would "save" your argument.

How about you start having an argument against my argument? Or better yet, answer my question.

Why must we dislike high quality media if we dislike Blu Ray?

 

[L33t Masta]

OK Then... Stop labling people's opinions then.

Image



I don't have to deal with all that I loathe with BD. No device restriction, no media player restriction, no screen restriction, no expensive equipment, no plastic case taking up space, Instant viewing, portability, OS Agnostacy, freedom to put on protable devices. If the movie distributors offered Full Quality DDs I would happily donwload them, just because I dislike BD doesn't mean I dislike high quality media.


But I thought avid movie goer's home was the cinema?



Pay enough cash and you can get anything.

I have old movies that no one would care to put on BD. In fact next month Im getting them put onto PC by a resotaration company.



How about you start having an argument against my argument? Or better yet, answer my question.

Image

Why must we dislike high quality media if we dislike Blu Ray?

This is the greatest response I have seen thus far on these forums. I am of the same mindset. I believe that downloadable HD content is superior to that of bluray and for the exact reasons you listed. Fight on, Brother!

 

[AidenShaw]

Why must we dislike high quality media if we dislike Blu Ray?

There is only one example of legal high quality media for home movie distribution - that's BD (full name "Blu-ray Disc").

If you dislike Blu-ray, you dislike the only example of high quality media that exists.

Wishing for a unicorn doesn't make unicorns exist.

 

[samcraig]

OK Then... Stop labling people's opinions then.

Image



I don't have to deal with all that I loathe with BD. No device restriction, no media player restriction, no screen restriction, no expensive equipment, no plastic case taking up space, Instant viewing, portability, OS Agnostacy, freedom to put on protable devices. If the movie distributors offered Full Quality DDs I would happily donwload them, just because I dislike BD doesn't mean I dislike high quality media.


But I thought avid movie goer's home was the cinema?



Pay enough cash and you can get anything.

I have old movies that no one would care to put on BD. In fact next month Im getting them put onto PC by a resotaration company.



How about you start having an argument against my argument? Or better yet, answer my question.

Image

Why must we dislike high quality media if we dislike Blu Ray?

As the world is now - the only MEDIA available for hi def is Blu-Ray. A rip of a blu-ray is not media. We are talking physical media. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

But go ahead - if you have money to burn for a celluloid version of Lord of the Rings and prefer to spend it on that vs the blu-ray - more power to you....

 

[AidenShaw]

This is the greatest response I have seen thus far on these forums. I am of the same mindset. I believe that downloadable HD content is superior to that of bluray and for the exact reasons you listed. Fight on, Brother!

And where do you find legal downloadable BD-quality content?

 

[L33t Masta]

And where do you find legal downloadable BD-quality content?

God bless Canada. The land where I can download anything I would like as long as it's for personal use.

 

[AidenShaw]

God bless Canada. The land where I can download anything I would like as long as it's for personal use.

I should have said "legal and ethical" - downloading pirate copies of ripped BD movies is never ethical.

By the way, are those rips in the 40GB to 120GB range? Must take a long time to download.

 

[L33t Masta]

I should have said "legal and ethical" - downloading pirate copies of ripped BD movies is never ethical.

By the way, are those rips in the 40GB to 120GB range? Must take a long time to download.

Yea they're pretty big. And not really. USENET speeds average around 6 MBps. So it's about 2 hours for a 40GB rip. Not too bad. Lots of stuff I can do in 2 hours. And downloading movies is ethical depending on how you look at it. They gouge me for prices and tell me I can't use my HD media on certain hardware, so I'm ethically inclined to download because I believe that that is just not right.

 

[wonderspark]

Well, they may not get it, but at least they admit that they love Blu-ray. It's amusing to see that the same people who think BD should go away haven't figured out that if that wish came true, they could not get their rips of BD movies, and thus would be forced to watch the next lower level of quality.

The reality is that BD will not die. It will be around for years to come, and thus the rippers will always be able to get their rips from someone else. This will allow them to continue to argue that the physical disc is lame and should die, even though it's as meaningful as saying Mila Kunis should sleep with them.

Ah, but isn't it fun to argue?