Steve Jobs to Keynote WWDC 2005

[dongmin]

And the big announcement is...

Given that most of the big software updates have been announced and power macs have been updated recently, the only thing left worthy of a Stevenote is a laptop announcement (and possibly some new iTunes initiatives).

The iBooks have not had an update in so long because, if they get any faster (167mhz bus, 1.5+ ghz cpu), they'll be eating into PowerBook territory. SO, I'm betting on a simultaneous PB and iBook update. The iBooks will only get a modest speedbump, but the PB's should debut with a new architecture. Whether this will be a 7448 G4 or a dual core G4 (that is not slated to sample until second half of this year) or the mystery G5 mobile is anyone's guess at this point. My handicap:

75% - MPC7448 at 1.8/1.6 ghz with 200mhz bus and 1MB L3 cache
25% - mobile G5 (I'm doubtful that the 970gx is cool enough to run in a laptop)
5% - dual core G4
0% - Pentium M (no way Apple supports both PPC and x86 simultaneously)

 

[Piarco]

I hope you're right! The logic of an iBook/PB update is sound due to the near cross-over of the specs if they just do the iBooks. And a faster processor would be great for the PB's, but I would like to see (as previously mentioned... talk about flogging a dead/dying horse!) a screen update for the 12" either to a higher res, or a migration to a widescreen. And a corresponding gfx update: either a 9600/9700 for the 12"/13.3" and a newer card for the 15" & 17" or just make 128MB standard.

I was going to place an order next week as I was sure some rumours would have surfaced, but its all looking quiet on that front.... what has Steve got up his sleave?!?

 

[zelmo]

Haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this is redundant.

It was two years ago at WWDC that Steve promised the 3GHz barrier would drop. He needs to stand before that same audience and have something to say about that....

That new iMac line-up makes the single processor PM pricing look completely out of place. I am hopeful that the current dual processor line-up will all take one step to the left, kicking the sp PM out, and make way for the dualcore dual processor 3.0GHz (or even 2.7GHz) Power Mac. Announced at WWDC with an estimated ship date of 7/31, but not in consumers' hands before September.

 

[CmdrLaForge]

Given that most of the big software updates have been announced and power macs have been updated recently, the only thing left worthy of a Stevenote is a laptop announcement (and possibly some new iTunes initiatives).

The iBooks have not had an update in so long because, if they get any faster (167mhz bus, 1.5+ ghz cpu), they'll be eating into PowerBook territory. SO, I'm betting on a simultaneous PB and iBook update. The iBooks will only get a modest speedbump, but the PB's should debut with a new architecture. Whether this will be a 7448 G4 or a dual core G4 (that is not slated to sample until second half of this year) or the mystery G5 mobile is anyone's guess at this point. My handicap:

75% - MPC7448 at 1.8/1.6 ghz with 200mhz bus and 1MB L3 cache
25% - mobile G5 (I'm doubtful that the 970gx is cool enough to run in a laptop)
5% - dual core G4
0% - Pentium M (no way Apple supports both PPC and x86 simultaneously)

I don't think that you are right. And the reason is that before the last PB update in January the iBooks were already pretty close to the PBs. That means Apple has done that before and will probably do it again: having iBooks that are pretty close to the PBs.

Only if the iBooks get a major overhaul Steve will present them during the show. Just a speedbumb is nothing he will mention.

My guess:
Stores down on a tuesday in the next 4 weeks and up again with new iBooks.

For the PBs I hope a new one will be presented at the Paris show. That would mean major improvements.

If not - same as with the iBooks. Silent update. Timeframe: about October

 

[gregoryp]

Mac Mini...WWDC Dream Machine?

Seeing that WWDC is a DEVELOPER'S conference, might Apple kick it up a notch and showcase the rev B Mac Mini as a developer's dream machine?

There has been a lot of press about how the Mini is good for application development (Linux?). Why not showcase it in front of the primary audience?

How expensive would it be to install a better chip (7448, 8741D apparently has the wrong I/O and is yet to be seen...anywhere), better graphic's card and better hard drive. I'm not talking insane upgrades, but small bumps that could make the machine significantly faster.

By extension, the same goes for iBook and Power Book

...Unless there is a 970 gx lurking about.

 

[gruffi]

they have to do something about the powerbooks/ibooks

in my opinion they have to do something about the pb/ib. i am a big pb-fan but i won't buy one for that much money with this kind of obsolete technology. any cheap supermarket-windows-notebook has better components than any pb and they are offered at a much lower price. i hate this so much, economically its stupid but i want a powerbook!!! 😡

 

[Yvan256]

I'm dissappointed, not because I wanted one or needed one, but because Apple was supposed to be ahead of the Windows world. They've certainly achieved this in the software area, but the hardware area is another story (i.e. the 3.0 Ghz marker was supposed to have been crossed last June).

Just like intel was supposed to have a Pentium 4 running at 4.0GHz

Look, the whole industry hit a huge wall as far as GHz go. And different architectures means different maximum speeds.

Yes, a PowerMac Quad G5 would be nice, PowerBook Dual G4 too (Freescale dual-core G4's with higher FSB, etc). But if the hardware doesn't exists, Apple can't make a computer out of it.

A PowerMac Quad G5 with lots of Cell co-processors would seriously kick ass though (and CoreImage/CoreVideo/CoreAudio would make it easier to use the Cell co-processors, I bet).

 

[bodeh6]

Even look at the PC world. What is Intel up to now in the Pentium department? 3.8Ghz. 2 years ago my sister bough her Dell laptop and it had a 3.06 GHz processor. Now what is the Mobile Pentium 4 up to? Why only 3.46 GHz. 2 years for 400 MHz? That is worse then Apple. Same with the desktop Pentium 4. 2 years ago or so, 3GHz. Now 3.8 GHz. What is that, 200MHz every 6 months. Not many complained about Intel. So why are all of the Apple PowerPC people complaining? Who knows. So Steve Jobs promise did not come true. Well neither did Intel reaching 4 GHz. This whole market is right now in a stand still in terms of megahertz increases. They are working on making other parts of the chip faster like the bus and more cache but the megahertz is not going anywhere. So people that complained about the PowerMac updates, shame on you for not looking at the industry as a whole.

 

[k28]

Another iPod special edition, maybe?

I don't know, but since Apple have some relationship with Black Eyed Peas, like introduction video of iMac G5 in last year, and now Pre-Order album Monkey biz at ITMS get free booklet, then i think that this could lead to the new iPod Black Eyed Peas Special edition (or maybe iPod mini Black Eyed Peas Special edition). What do you think?

 

[Daveway]

I don't know, but since Apple have some relationship with Black Eyed Peas, like introduction video of iMac G5 in last year, and now Pre-Order album Monkey biz at ITMS get free booklet, then i think that this could lead to the new iPod Black Eyed Peas Special edition (or maybe iPod mini Black Eyed Peas Special edition). What do you think?

As far as I can remember there were no precursors leading up to the U2 announcement besides rumors of the pod.i

 

[k28]

As far as I can remember there were no precursors leading up to the U2 announcement besides rumors of the pod.i

Yeah you right, but it different now coz U2 iPod is the first EVER special edition, Anyway, i still thinking that BEP heve something to do with this keynote, because the release date of new album is one day after SJ keynote as well as apple is help them promote their album havily like put the news on startpage, exclusive videos and a digital booklet on ITMS.

Just my 2cent

 

[wdlove]

Haven't read the whole thread, so forgive me if this is redundant.

It was two years ago at WWDC that Steve promised the 3GHz barrier would drop. He needs to stand before that same audience and have something to say about that....

That new iMac line-up makes the single processor PM pricing look completely out of place. I am hopeful that the current dual processor line-up will all take one step to the left, kicking the sp PM out, and make way for the dualcore dual processor 3.0GHz (or even 2.7GHz) Power Mac. Announced at WWDC with an estimated ship date of 7/31, but not in consumers' hands before September.

I also think that Steve should stand up at WWDC and explain what has happened to his 3.0 GHz promise. Give us an update as to progress, unless you are accurate with your prediction.

 

[0092762]

My ideas

Hello all,

This is my first post here. I am currently a PC user looking to buy a new laptop and I have sworn to myself that whatever I get, it won't be running that POS OS by microsoft...

Until MacOS X came, I was unimpressed with apple and I admit, a PC bigot. I was also younger and misspent much of my youth playing video games on my PC's, which explains my distate for macs at the time.

I really don't think PB G5 is that far away as some are inclined to believe. I've been searching around for info on the PB G5, I've read that at 2 Ghz, the G5 (desktop version) consumes about 25W. Guess what, that's the same as the thermal rating Intel gives for my Pentium-M 1.6 Ghz - Banias. If P-M can be put in a reasonably thin notebook, then I'd assume a G5 should be too.

While the P-M is nice, it isn't all that's hyped up to be. Whenever I'm doing some nontrivial tasks, the cpu speed gets bumped to 1.6 ghz from the cool 589 mhz, and the fan kicks in. However, since most of the time I'm surfing the web, checking email etc, the fan is usually off. I'm sure the two years since the G5 introduction has given the engineers some time to implement voltage/clock scaling features on the mobile version of G5, alongside with the trick high-latency but low-power cache found in the Pentium-M. I'm sure with these features, the G5 could be put in a reasonably thin notebook, if not 1", then definitely into 1.25". It would run at around 800 mhz nominally, but then be able to step up to 2 ghz and intermediate steps in between (along with voltage) when needed. Think of it, most of the time the laptop is actually on my lap, I don't do any intensive work that would keep the fan on for long.

Besides the CPU, the biggest issue is screen resolution. My inspiron 8600 has a 15.4 1680x1050 screen and i think it's perfect. And I have nearsightedness and astigmatism, not superman eyes. The whole "designers prefer 100 dpi" argument is pure BS if you ask me. Apple had that market cornered for years, and it needs to expand to people like me, developers, power users who have been using PC's for years. The people that have been using macs for long won't switch to PC's just because of an increase in screen resolution...The market left for apple to bite into is now casual users, programmers and power users, all firmly entrenched in the wintel camp for years. I'm sure they will be able to appreciate the increased desktop real estate that comes with a high resolution, I know I would.

So here's my suggestions for the new powerbook G5 lineup, based on other pc laptops which already use LCD panels of the same size and configuration.

12.1 PB = 1280x800 (Dell 700m)
15.4 PB = 1680x1050 (Various Dells, Compaqs, HPs)
17 PB = 1920x1200 (Sony, Dell)

This way, even the 12 PB could be marketed as being able to edit 720p HD video, and the 17 will be able to edit full HD 1080p. The 15" will appeal more to power users, developers and admins new to the mac world.

Also, why not have a webcam integrated onto the new pb? Sony had this on their laptops a few years ago, and I'd think it makes perfect sense to include a $10 part on a $3k laptop. USB webcams are so 90s, even iSight.

Also, it's time for two button mice and trackpads for apple after 20 years... It doesnt matter much to me because I'd be using my bluetooth mouse with my new pb anyway.

Hear me apple, build new pb g5's like above and they will come. I will be handing out my credit card on the 7th to the nearest apple store 🙂

 

[bodeh6]

0092762, you could not have said it any better. I am looking at getting the 15" PB this fall. If they release a HD 15.4" PB, then I will be all over that.

 

[wdlove]

Welcome to MacRumors bodeh6 and 0092762. Well just one week from now we will know what Steve has to say on the subject. Many will be disappointed if he doesn't address this issue among others.

 

[BarfBag]

Wow, 0092762. You convinced me that they could and should put G5 chips in laptops. Good work. 😱

 

[Panoctopi]

I don't know, but since Apple have some relationship with Black Eyed Peas, like introduction video of iMac G5 in last year, and now Pre-Order album Monkey biz at ITMS get free booklet, then i think that this could lead to the new iPod Black Eyed Peas Special edition (or maybe iPod mini Black Eyed Peas Special edition). What do you think?

the black eyed peas?!? 😱 WTF!!! A bunch of sell out, wannabes, pop rappers... puhlease! Give steve some credit.

 

[0092762]

Here's an excerpt from this page

IBM's own literature (IBM PowerPC Quick Reference Guide - G224-7178-02) states the power dissipation of the 970 (130nm) and 970FX (90nm) are as follows:

970@1.8 Ghz 51W typical
970FX@1.4 GHz 12.3W typical
970FX@2 GHz 24.5W typical
Scaling the power (pdiss is proportional to operating frequency) to 2.5GHz for the 970FX leads to ~35W

A 2.5 GHz 970FX is lower power than a 1.8GHz 970. [...] The latest PowerBooks use the low power 7447A. From MPC7447AEC.pdf Rev. 0 2/2004

1267 MHz 18.3 W typical
1333 MHz 18 W typical (screened for lower power)
1420 MHz 20 W typical
A 970FX at 1.8 GHz consumes about 20 W typical. Why is Apple saying it is so hard to put a G5 in a laptop? Perhaps there aren't good power-saving features in the 970FX but that is a battery life issue not a thermal one.

 

[EGT]

If what you have said happens, i will be a very happy man for a long time.

Fingers crossed for next week! Come on Steve!!! What have you been dreaming up!?

This is better than Christmas, this is!

 

[DHagan4755]

Why is Apple saying it is so hard to put a G5 in a laptop? Perhaps there aren't good power-saving features in the 970FX but that is a battery life issue not a thermal one.

You forgot about the system controller. This is probably the reason why we aren't seeing (to date) G5s in PowerBooks. There was a site that recently showed the logic board of the new G5s with pretty sizeable heat pipes on the underside of the Power Mac's logic board. We need to see a more efficient and cooler G5 chip for PowerBooks, so a controller can be made that will also contribute to keeping the system cool.

I think such a cooler G5 chip now exists for PowerBook use and I think we'll see PB G5s at WWDC (I'm overly confident)

 

[0092762]

You forgot about the system controller. This is probably the reason why we aren't seeing (to date) G5s in PowerBooks. There was a site that recently showed the logic board of the new G5s with pretty sizeable heat pipes on the underside of the Power Mac's logic board. We need to see a more efficient and cooler G5 chip for PowerBooks, so a controller can be made that will also contribute to keeping the system cool.

I think such a cooler G5 chip now exists for PowerBook use and I think we'll see PB G5s at WWDC (I'm overly confident)

Why not make the system controller also able to scale down frequency AND vdd (scaling down voltage is key, since power consumption increases with the SQUARE of the voltage) I have a feeling apple and IBM have been working on this, and it is fundamentally an easier challenge, since it does not run at as high frequencies as the G5 to begin with...

 

[jaw04005]

the black eyed peas?!? 😱 WTF!!! A bunch of sell out, wannabes, pop rappers... puhlease! Give steve some credit.

Steve made a mistake in featuring the Black Eyed Peas in the iMac G5 introduction and elsewhere. The "Peas" have promoted every music service available and now you can't turn on your TV without seeing them. I think their latest commercial promotes their album with Best Buy. I also got an email from American Eagle stating that their album would be available for download as part of an exclusive contract.

A few other of Steve's featured celebrities like Sheryl Crow have promoted other music services after publicly promoting iTunes. Although Crow's music is better than the Peas, so it doesn't bother me as much. 🙂

I guess it's good marketing by their managers, but it makes them look like sell outs.

 

[obeygiant]

the black eyed peas?!? 😱 WTF!!! A bunch of sell out, wannabes, pop rappers... puhlease! Give steve some credit.

dude, who cares about selling out, you gotta make what you can when you can. screw the haterz.

 

[obeygiant]

dude, who cares about selling out, you gotta make what you can when you can. screw the haterz.

maybe they'll come out with the Black Eyed Peas Special Edition iPod!

YEAH!

 

[CubaTBird]

i dunno... i mean this wwdc.. im not that excited going into it.. last year i was like 'O SHNAP NEW IPODS TEH COMING OUT NO??!!!111" but now, im like meh... maybe its cuz i have and ibook with tiger and two ipods.. so im good.. for now.. 🙂 🙄