Steve Jobs Tried Unsuccessfully to Defuse Patent Dispute with Samsung in 2010

[KnightWRX]

The P800 did have a full touchscreen (I downloaded the user manual), after the keypad was flipped out of the way, and a jog dial was used on the side for scrolling, plus there was a stylus required to use the handwriting recognition (which iPhone doesn't natively support). There are also quite a few button/switches on the side.

I'll give you that is is a touchscreen, but functionally quite primitive next to the iPhone. Whether the touchscreen was the primary interface or no would probably depend upon the task. For the iPhone, the touch surface is definitely the primary interface.

So wait, you ridiculed my example without even knowing about the phone ? Good god man.

Of course it seems primitive compared to the iPhone, it's basically the iPhone's ancestor from 2002. 5 years earlier. The plain fact is, the iPhone wasn't invented in a vaccuum, there already was a certain ground work for the form factor.

BTW, the P800 had apps, two SDKs and an emulator that were free downloads from SE. These apps were sold in app stores (usually managed and owned by the different carriers). Apps could either be written in J2ME or using the Symbian C SDK. Something even the original iPhone can't boast!

The phone had a browser, e-mail and even used the grid of icon interface. All of this back in 2002. So really, anyone trying to tell us the iPhone invented anything is just ignorant of everything that came before it. The iPhone is a nice phone, I own one, I like it and will probably upgrade it this year, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple very much stands on the shoulders of giants here.

 

[TMay]

Right, the keyboard could be removed entirely, you did not need to use use, you did not need to use the 5 way scroll wheel as you could use the touch screen for all input including the on screen keyboards. On the side you had a camera shutter key and a short cut key, on the other side a 5 way jog dial and the power button.
You could control the phone with the touch screen entirely if you wanted. The keypad you could attach actually just pushed down onto the screen. Electronic keypads came in later versions like the P900. The touch screen was the primary interface if you chose. You had a choice.
The stylus was used as the screen was a resistive screen, I don't think capacitive screens were cheap enough in 2002 to put in a phone. I miss my P990, that was an awesome phone, if big.

Did it require the stylus.?

 

[ReiszRie]

Re: Apple's Australian court testimony.

Without judging who's correct, what struck me the most was how Apple's predictions of potential damages, if the Tab is allowed to sell, are pretty much the polar opposite of some oft-repeated forum concepts:

Forum: Tab sales will be slow and won't affect the iPad.
Apple: "This is going to be launched on the market with the velocity of a fire hose and [the Galaxy Tab 10.1 is] going to just come in and take away iPad 2 sales ..."

Forum: Tab sales will only take away from other Android sales.
Apple: The Galaxy Tab will only get market share by taking share away from Apple. Other Android competitors from brands such as Motorola and Acer are irrelevant.

Forum: Everyone really wants iOS and won't stay with Android.
Apple: Every Galaxy Tab sold will cost us future app sales as the users will become "Android people".

---

One thing for sure: Apple has done more to bring attention to Samsung's products than any ad campaign could.

It's still stunning to me that Apple has not learned the lesson from when it sued Jobs and NeXT. All that happened was that Apple showed the world how afraid it was of NeXT and its potential products, while NeXT got free publicity.

Put it simply, Apple's lawyer needed to create a case to show how the Galaxy Tab might impact it's business and sales as required by the court in order to justify an injunction, don't take it at face value and seriously believe that Apple thinks that the Galaxy Tab poses any real challenge to the iPad, a look at their sales figure is sufficient to make things infinitely clear.

 

[kdarling]

Did it require the stylus.?

Forget every myth Jobs has told you. As any smartphone user can tell you:

Resistive touchscreen phones never required a stylus per se. Your finger worked too. (Screens could be made to be very sensitive, almost as much as a capacitive screen if wished, although few did so.)

The major difference was that UI elements were often made very tiny in order to fit as much information on most phones' limited screen space as possible. That's mostly why they came with a stylus.

A stylus is actually quite handy for making quick drawings and jotting notes, btw. They're making a small comeback as active pens in combination with the capacitive screen for fingers. After all, people use writing and drawing instruments in real life.

 

[gorgeousninja]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)

Steve probably initiated contact by being an arrogant douche and Samsung hung up on him.

and you were obvioudly well behind Steve when they were handing out the charm and civillity.

 

[apolloa]

Did it require the stylus.?

Not if you had finger nails! Which I didn't lol. The P800 was actually very popular as it was the first Symbian touch screen phone, it became popular with business people, and it looked funky! I'm not sure but I think Windows touch screen smart phone came out just before the P800? And that brings me to my other point, the market has been totally flooded with touch screen devices WAY before the iPhone was launched.
But alas, they were still a bit business orientated, Sony Ericson offered something different with the Symbian UIQ interface being fresh and feature packed. The interface was more funky looking. Just the same as many a tablet has been available long before the iPad.

 

[kdarling]

I'm not sure but I think Windows touch screen smart phone came out just before the P800?

Yep, just a year before, in 2002.

And that brings me to my other point, the market has been totally flooded with touch screen devices WAY before the iPhone was launched.

Yep again. A fun site to search sometimes is http://pdadb.net/ , the world's largest database of handhelds and phones.

There are some predefined searches on its lefthand menu. Just click on say, the link for "All devices with VGA or higher" and be amazed at seeing almost 900 devices.

Speaking of touch phones, here's one I'd never heard of: the 2006 Samsung SGH-Z610, which used simple touch gestures to launch apps and move between pages. It also had a front camera:

View attachment June06_Samsung_SGH-Z610.bmp

 

[Luis Ortega]

Finally somebody put pictures showing where and in what Samsung is claimed to be copying from Apple. C'mon, even a kid can see that the depicted objects are highly similar!!!

How many ****ing ways are there to make a cable?
How many ****ing ways are there to stuff a tablet into a box?
I have seen cables, boxes, plugs and all sorts of hardware that look almost alike. So what?
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
You people need to get a life.
If one product is better than the other, the cream will rise to the top.
If they are comparable, then let the buyers choose whatever the hell they want to buy.

 

[adder7712]

How many ****ing ways are there to make a cable?
How many ****ing ways are there to stuff a tablet into a box?
I have seen cables, boxes, plugs and all sorts of hardware that look almost alike. So what?
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.
You people need to get a life.
If one product is better than the other, the cream will rise to the top.
If they are comparable, then let the buyers choose whatever the hell they want to buy.

Guess manufacturers that use microUSB should sue each other as their cables look-alike.

^ sarcasm ^

 

[AppleScruff1]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_5 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8L1 Safari/6533.18.5)



and you were obvioudly well behind Steve when they were handing out the charm and civillity.

Tell me what I'm really like. His arrogance is well documented. It's all about his ego and has been all along. Gates has given away $28 billion while Jobs and Apple are suing over the color of a box. Now that's charm and civility.

 

[adder7712]

Forget every myth Jobs has told you. As any smartphone user can tell you:

Resistive touchscreen phones never required a stylus per se. Your finger worked too. (Screens could be made to be very sensitive, almost as much as a capacitive screen if wished, although few did so.)

The major difference was that UI elements were often made very tiny in order to fit as much information on most phones' limited screen space as possible. That's mostly why they came with a stylus.

A stylus is actually quite handy for making quick drawings and jotting notes, btw. They're making a small comeback as active pens in combination with the capacitive screen for fingers. After all, people use writing and drawing instruments in real life.

Why would people thumb this down? This is true.

I played around with a Nokia 5800 which has a resistive screen. The buttons are sized well enough for finger input and in fact, it's quite accurate for a resistive screen.

Heck, my friend has a back-up SE P800 and the buttons are small but the larger ones are still navigable by fingers but the UI seems to prefer a stylus but still it recognises your fingers.

Do some people think if you disagree, you're a troll?

 

[AppleScruff1]

Why would people thumb this down? This is true.

I played around with a Nokia 5800 which has a resistive screen. The buttons are sized well enough for finger input and in fact, it's quite accurate for a resistive screen.

Heck, my friend has a back-up SE P800 and the buttons are small but the larger ones are still navigable by fingers but the UI seems to prefer a stylus but still it recognises your fingers.

Do some people think if you disagree, you're a troll?

If you don't praise everything that Apple does, even if it's bad for the consumer, many here get upset and you will be branded as a troll or hater. They think that Steve can walk on water and personally invented the products that Apple sells, even the ones where he took the idea from elsewhere.

 

[kdarling]

Why would people thumb this down? This is true.

Mass downmarkings just started in the forum yesterday, not long after someone here got a "warning" in email that people should not say anything negative towards Apple.

Apparently a gang of kids has gotten together to "defend Apple" or something.

.

 

[AppleScruff1]

Mass downmarkings just started in the forum yesterday, not long after someone here got a "warning" in email that people should not say anything negative towards Apple.

Apparently a gang of kids has gotten together to "defend Apple" or something.

.

I take it that the email didn't come from MR Admin?

 

[voonyx]

If you don't praise everything that Apple does, even if it's bad for the consumer, many here get upset and you will be branded as a troll or hater. They think that Steve can walk on water and personally invented the products that Apple sells, even the ones where he took the idea from elsewhere.

I don't know about everyone else but you definitely come across as a troll.

As for downvoting why does everyone here care. You act as if it validates your life or something. Ppl downvote for no reason and I'm not sure why ppl, who claim to be these people in the field who claim to have all this knowledge, are getting so upset over a downvote. Get over it already...

 

[AppleScruff1]

I don't know about everyone else but you definitely come across as a troll.

As for downvoting why does everyone here care. You act as if it validates your life or something. Ppl downvote for no reason and I'm not sure why ppl, who claim to be these people in the field who claim to have all this knowledge, are getting so upset over a downvote. Get over it already...

I could care less about down voting, and I have never once complained about it. I was merely explaining the reason why in my post to a member who brought up the subject. I find it quite comical actually. Like the link I posted of the video where Steve talks about stealing ideas. The fangirls didn't like it. And obviously I was correct. It has nothing to do with being a troll or hater. If you think I'm a troll, that's fine. I think you're a respectful user and not a blind faith fanboy. My idiotic responses are directed to those that earn them, not you and the other intelligent users. Face it, there are many here who are responsible for giving Apple users the reputation that they have. Read any thread and there is ample evidence of it.

 

[voonyx]

I could care less about down voting, and I have never once complained about it. I was merely explaining the reason why in my post to a member who brought up the subject. I find it quite comical actually. Like the link I posted of the video where Steve talks about stealing ideas. The fangirls didn't like it. And obviously I was correct. It has nothing to do with being a troll or hater. If you think I'm a troll, that's fine. I think you're a respectful user and not a blind faith fanboy. My idiotic responses are directed to those that earn them, not you and the other intelligent users. Face it, there are many here who are responsible for giving Apple users the reputation that they have. Read any thread and there is ample evidence of it.

I feel like we've had this discussion already. Yes there are ppl here who blindly just agree with everything apple says/does. And then there are trolls. I think you look far worse calling these ppl fangirls and posting like twenty responses in every thread about apple sheep. We get it. Apple sheep exist. No need to say it fifty times a day... that makes u look like a troll

 

[AppleScruff1]

I feel like we've had this discussion already. Yes there are ppl here who blindly just agree with everything apple says/does. And then there are trolls. I think you look far worse calling these ppl fangirls and posting like twenty responses in every thread about apple sheep. We get it. Apple sheep exist. No need to say it fifty times a day... that makes u look like a troll

Yes, we had this discussion a few days ago. Again, I mean no offense to you.

 

[Tiggs]

At least he tried. Don't hold out much hope for Samsung management now for coming to their senses. Samsung apparently likes to keep shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[divinox]

Besides, it's not like icons are a novum, [like everyone else] Apple just put them in a box. Whoa, innovation strikes.

There, even better! :- )

----------

So wait, you ridiculed my example without even knowing about the phone ? Good god man.

Of course it seems primitive compared to the iPhone, it's basically the iPhone's ancestor from 2002. 5 years earlier. The plain fact is, the iPhone wasn't invented in a vaccuum, there already was a certain ground work for the form factor.

BTW, the P800 had apps, two SDKs and an emulator that were free downloads from SE. These apps were sold in app stores (usually managed and owned by the different carriers). Apps could either be written in J2ME or using the Symbian C SDK. Something even the original iPhone can't boast!

The phone had a browser, e-mail and even used the grid of icon interface. All of this back in 2002. So really, anyone trying to tell us the iPhone invented anything is just ignorant of everything that came before it. The iPhone is a nice phone, I own one, I like it and will probably upgrade it this year, but that doesn't change the fact that Apple very much stands on the shoulders of giants here.

To add, SE partnered up with Handango (and maybe others) in 2003 to create its own store, and implemented a store-client in the p800 and p900 devices called "Sony Ericsson Application Shop Client".

"Sony Ericsson is committed to make the every-day life of our consumers easier, at the same time as helping operators and service providers increase mobile data usage and subsequently the Average Revenue per User. We are convinced that the possibility to download value-adding applications to phones over-the-air will contribute to both, and will
bring the Sony Ericsson Application Shop closer to the user,"
- SE

"The launch of the Application Shop Client with Sony Ericsson is a
significant milestone for Handango. The client extends Handango AMPP,
our provisioning platform directly to the phone and delivers an
incredible, intuitive user experience. Using the Application Shop
Client, mobile operators can expose their entire base of users to
downloadable goods, driving adoption and wireless data revenue,"
- Handango

​

Exchange a few names here and there and one could easily fool people to think it was an Apple press release ;- )

Nifty little device the 900, too bad i could never afford one back in 2003 :- )

 

[vrDrew]

These Samsung threads are always good entertainment.

Its kinda of a cool glimpse into this Bizarro-world where everything is the complete opposite of reality: The New York Yankees are perennial losers. The Nazis won WWII. And Apple is this blatant copycat.

Never mind the incredible financial performance. Ignore the lines of excited customers around the block of every Apple Store. Pay no heed to the rave reviews in tech and mainstream publications. Forget the sight of those iconic white earbuds in every jogger and tennybopper's ears.

Apple ripped everyone off. Apple stole from Sony and Microsoft. Apple made the "me too" products.

And everybody in the world got fooled by Steve Jobs, the Pied Piper of California. Everybody was too dumb to see through the cunning smoke and mirrors of marketing thats turned a couple of billions into mindless sheeple.

Thank heavens we here at MacRumors are blessed with the wisdom, the piercing insight, of those courageous enough to fight the evil power of Apple with Youtube clips and fuzzy jpegs that prove the wicked, wicked ways of the Cupertino Cartel. A rag-tag band of internet freedom fighters that will boldly stand up and defend helpless South Korean billionaires (and tax cheats) as they strive nobly to give us poor customers the choice to buy their derivative and nasty tablets.

 

[divinox]

These Samsung threads are always good entertainment.

Its kinda of a cool glimpse into this Bizarro-world where everything is the complete opposite of reality: The New York Yankees are perennial losers. The Nazis won WWII. And Apple is this blatant copycat.

Never mind the incredible financial performance. Ignore the lines of excited customers around the block of every Apple Store. Pay no heed to the rave reviews in tech and mainstream publications. Forget the sight of those iconic white earbuds in every jogger and tennybopper's ears.

Apple ripped everyone off. Apple stole from Sony and Microsoft. Apple made the "me too" products.

And everybody in the world got fooled by Steve Jobs, the Pied Piper of California. Everybody was too dumb to see through the cunning smoke and mirrors of marketing thats turned a couple of billions into mindless sheeple.

Thank heavens we here at MacRumors are blessed with the wisdom, the piercing insight, of those courageous enough to fight the evil power of Apple with Youtube clips and fuzzy jpegs that prove the wicked, wicked ways of the Cupertino Cartel. A rag-tag band of internet freedom fighters that will boldly stand up and defend helpless South Korean billionaires (and tax cheats) as they strive nobly to give us poor customers the choice to buy their derivative and nasty tablets.

Where are these people you speak of? All i see is sober accounts of "what actually happened", as opposed to historical-rewrites in which "Apple (almost) created life itself!". Rarely, do i ever see anyone stating that Apple is the copier (other than for examplifying that Apple copies too), rather, i see people provide unrefutable evidence which counters the many uninformed claims made with regards to Apple, and their superior ability to innovate and do what "nobody else could do" -- or even "think of". Even less often, do i see the word "steal" used by people outside of the Apple-camp (other than for highlighting inconsistencies in others reasoning, in the form of: if A stole B from C, then C stole D from E).

That said, even if they were, financial performance alone would say nothing. To examplify, using my earlier parenthical exceptions, one must then conclude that a) MSFT stole nothing b) MSFT innovated tons. Yet, the common view in the Apple-camp is rather "MSFT stole everything", "MSFT innovated none". The inconsistency and conflict is self-evident and fundamental. Similar lines of thought could be used for ability to create lines (e.g. crappy sci-fi movies, or anything with a dedicated fan-base, really).

Furthermore, the market and product success too say nothing on the subject at hand. For example, it would not be hard to find examples in which a product has achieved high-use without being technically superior (e.g. VHS vs Betamax), and even if it were - it still would not prove that Apple did not build on the achievements of others. (Really the only thing i see people outside of the Apple camp claim).

So yeah.... did you even have the outline of a point in your rambling above? Or were you just trolling? For your sake, i almost wish it's the latter...

 

[macsmurf]

These Samsung threads are always good entertainment.

Its kinda of a cool glimpse into this Bizarro-world where everything is the complete opposite of reality: The New York Yankees are perennial losers. The Nazis won WWII. And Apple is this blatant copycat.

Never mind the incredible financial performance. Ignore the lines of excited customers around the block of every Apple Store. Pay no heed to the rave reviews in tech and mainstream publications. Forget the sight of those iconic white earbuds in every jogger and tennybopper's ears.

Apple ripped everyone off. Apple stole from Sony and Microsoft. Apple made the "me too" products.

Does it have to be either one or the other? It's clear that Apple has inspired other large companies - maybe even to the extent that these companies go from inspiration to emulation. They've certainly inspired me.

It's also clear (to me) that Apple are inspired by others - sometimes to the point of copying features from other products. That's not unique to Apple. Everybody does it.

 

[divinox]

Does it have to be either one or the other? It's clear that Apple has inspired other large companies - maybe even to the extent that these companies go from inspiration to emulation. They've certainly inspired me.

It's also clear (to me) that Apple are inspired by others - sometimes to the point of copying features from other products. That's not unique to Apple. Everybody does it.

Thing is, in saying that you're just acknowledging that you're part of this bizzaro crowd that hes pointing at. Because, that is all that people outside of the Apple-camp really say around here.

 

[vrDrew]

Does it have to be either one or the other?

Keep in mind that the original topic of this thread was a report about Steve Jobs' efforts to diffuse a brewing legal dispute with Samsung over IP.

It seems to me that many of the arguments asserted by the anti-Apple people go along the lines of: "Apple product X has feature Y that was similar to something made previously by company Z. Therefore Apple is wrong to sue Samsung."

This strikes me as being a classic example of the Tu Quoque logical fallacy. The conclusion does not follow from the premise: In actual fact Apple's use of feature Y usually either compensated company Z, or did not infringe company Z's patents.

A second line of arguments are examples of the Ad Hominen fallacy: "Steve Jobs was rude to people in an Elevator, Steve Jobs doesn't give enough money to charity, etc. etc. - therefore Apple is a bad company." And therefore Apple is wrong to sue Samsung.

Take a look at any one of the dozens of Samsung threads here: How long before someone starts yammering about Xerox Parc, or posting the notorious "Great Artists Steal" interview quote?

The thing that I, personally, find so fascinating is: Why? I literally cannot understand why so many people get so worked up about one multi-billion dollar corporation suing another. Apple obviously feels it has the facts and the law on its side. But, at the end of the day, the issue will ultimately be decided by Judges far more familiar with the actual facts and laws at issue than any of the armchair litigators present.