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It's funny how many Mac fans are against USB now, and all because Steve said that they're not ready for USB 3. I bet they had no opinion about USB a day earlier.

You are wrong, they don't hate USB 3.0, they just wait for it to happen. The implementation on Macs IMHO depends on what will be the result of the market study. Big companies do market research. And most of their decisions were based on market research. Imagine how much percentage were Mac users to the whole computing market? Apple only caters to Mac users, and how many of these Mac users demands for USB 3? Typical users doesn't care about these technical things, as long as they plug something and it can do the work in time, it is fine.

For example if I am doing word processing in MBP, will I get the benefit of the USB 3? I am fine with USB 2 for now. See my sig, I am still on a 10 year old power mac. And it does not have a USB 2.0 port OOTB.
 
It's funny how many Mac fans are against USB now, and all because Steve said that they're not ready for USB 3. I bet they had no opinion about USB a day earlier.

Well, my current USB external drives work just fine. Hell, I'm still trying to get over my awe of the new MBAs. I haven't gotten around to worrying about USB.

I'm pretty sure Apple has a good reason for the delay and they're not doing it because they enjoy pissing people off (well, the minority on tech sites) and giggling about it in the corner.
 
I haven't been following Apple that long, but isn't this all a little deja vu? Either you accept Apple as a greater wisdom on technology adoption, or you don't. Speaking about ports in particular, it seems like the same hullaballoo when Apple ended Firewire, or released the Air, or used Display Port over HDMI, etc, etc. I imagine there was even a similar scene when the floppy wasn't in the old iMacs.

I imagine PCs like tech demos at trade shows. They're just a sampling of what Apple might pick up and fine-tune in the future.

Affordability and risks are issues here. Newer technologies cost more and might not be adopted. A lot of people already consider Macs expensive. And Apple has to consider whether USB 3.0 might just be replaced my wireless USB or new WiFi technologies soon.

If you want the latest ports, get a PC. Then you can do your tech demos and benchmarks, and maybe get a little practical use out of it too. If you want it when it in a nicer package, wait a little. You can say this about CPUS, video cards, etc too
 
If you do not mind.! !

I think Steve Jobs tries a little too hard to be different from the competitors.

No Flash player, Bluray, USB 3, SATA 3??? These technologies will continue to be important whether Apple likes it or not. :rolleyes:

USB 3 and SATA 3 in my i7 hackintosh, but Apple doesn't support them. No drivers. Hopefully someone will make a kext.

The lack of this tech in the Mac Pro proves how overpriced it is.

I spent a $1000 on parts for a now working hackintosh that would've cost me $3500 from Apple.

I am interested to know. if you do not mind telling us, that is. Do you use it for work or Play?, is it stable, Fast, what software are you running. etc. I too am disgusted at apple for their lack of interest on the Pro User. so much so that I have jumped ships (software wise) to Adobe. so I would be interested to know about your station. maybe I will build one just for the heck of it and if it works I might build more to replace my other workstations and when Apple changes its name again to iToys Factory inc. I will be set to run Windows or Linux on them. I know it would not be pretty if apple throws the towel but the truth is, in 2 years it will be too late for apple to somewhat fix FCP, DVDSP, Compressor, Support Blu-Ray, SATA 3, etc and that by the way is not being cutting edge but keeping pase with technology. I miss the Old Apple.
 
I am interested to know. if you do not mind telling us, that is. Do you use it for work or Play?, is it stable, Fast, what software are you running. etc. I too am disgusted at apple for their lack of interest on the Pro User. so much so that I have jumped ships (software wise) to Adobe. so I would be interested to know about your station. maybe I will build one just for the heck of it and if it works I might build more to replace my other workstations and when Apple changes its name again to iToys Factory inc. I will be set to run Windows or Linux on them. I know it would not be pretty if apple throws the towel but the truth is, in 2 years it will be too late for apple to somewhat fix FCP, DVDSP, Compressor, Support Blu-Ray, SATA 3, etc and that by the way is not being cutting edge but keeping pase with technology. I miss the Old Apple.

About the "hack" thing you mean. My notebook is on a "hack", pretty stable. But I have upgraded some components on it to be near Mac specs, ie., processor to have native speed step, etc. Benchmark is comparable to original. If you like to tinker then it is fun. But nothing beats the original.
 
I haven't seen many opinions against USB3. They're more about the possible reasons why Apple and Jobs hasn't included it yet.

Throughout this thread there are plenty, including some who want to completely skip USB 3 and go to LP. Defensive tone, and it's really not about USB, but getting defensive when there's a possible Apple criticism. Those post interest me.
 
only 67MB/s? pretty bad if you ask me, but an improvement nonetheless - the drive itself does not appeal to the eyes either.
I don't think I've ever seen a good looking flash drive. Otherwise my Patriot XT currently tops out at a 30 MB/s read.
 
If USB 2.0 is too slow for you...

Get a NAS drive with Gigabit ethernet. There, no new ports needed and it's faster than USB 2.0.
 
The main thing that annoys me about this comment from Steve is this.

Firewire wasn't taking off when Apple got involved.
802.11g wasn't taking off when Apple got involved.
Display Port wasn't taking off when Apple got involved.

And Mini Display Port sure as **** wasn't taking off before Apple invented the standard :mad:

So to hear him say that USB 3 which is probably one of the most important new standards that is actually being used by a lot of companies with growing support every day just really pisses me off. He really is an ass, says one thing does the complete opposite whenever it suits him.
 
I fully support USB 3.0. What is Jobs talking about?

USB 3.0 is a classic too many cooks in the soup. When I saw the mechanical change, I knew it would go no where. You don't introduce mechanical alterations that are not backwards compatible in a recession. FAIL!
 
I think Light Peak (LP) is useful and will probably get some market traction. It is the hand wavy claims that it going to eliminate all the other protocols that is just hype and smoke.






I do grasp it. Managing a protocol by simply transporting the signals from one box to another does not remove , change , or supercede the protocol. A USB 2.0 connection routed over LP will be just as fast as USB 2.0 over a normal USB 2.0 cable. You can get complementary attributes to USB by using LP. For example you can extend the distance between the hub and the device ( presuming provide power to the client side if necessary). Likewise you can run USB 2.0 and a Display bitstream over the same wire ( and decode on the both sides back into the underlying protocols). So you get fewer cables.

As long as it the diagram goes from something like.

[usb controller ]------< usb cable >-------[ usb client ]

to

[usb controller]--[LP controller ]---<LP cable >----[LP controller]---[usb cleint]

you are not removing anything. You are only adding components to the system. That will almost always make it more expensive.

Note that as long as the computer still has a usb controller, PCI-e controller, etc. in it then it is trivial to just run a physical connection out to a single protocol specific socket. if there 10 USB connectors, 5 SATA ones , etc. then if you just prune a few off to LP routing, you can still use the rest with extremely minimal cost out to the side of the box.


There is a couple of general approaches Intel could implement this multiprotocol support. One is internally add the legacy ones to the controller. The other is something that just decodes the signals which are routed somehow to the legacy controllers ( by pins and/or other means.)
Neither one of those removes the controllers from the system. All the current properties are still there. You just get complementary properties that LP enables (e.g., distance , fewer cables , room for future compatibility with updated standards with speed improvements if added. )




I don't really buy that first option will be widely taken. If that happened at all it would be way out in the far distance future. Likewise it is extremely doubtful it would happen across the board.

This is a variation on the classic "Embrace , Extended , Extinguish" methodology that folks like Microsoft and others have attempted to use.
The problem for LP is that the mixed use will be the normal mode. As long as the legacy protocols are supported in the core chipset they will always be around.

The other major problem is that a couple of the legacy protocols are fast enough. For devices with dramatically less than 3-5Gbps bandwidth requirements all that extra speed doesn't buy much of anything. Especially if it is only close distances to a singlular device you are trying to traverse (e.g., a small single chip USB Flash drive plugged into a socket on the computer. )

the claim that are going to subsume and eliminate has been trotted out many times before. For instance many years ago written about Firewire:


http://www.ausairpower.net/OSR-0201.html

SCSI is still here. It mutated into SAS and iSCSI but still around. I don't think Ethernet , USB , SATA , PCI-e etc. standards committees are just going to throw up their hands and say "we give up.... Sauron's one true ring, LP, will rull them all." Nor will having LP making you automagically forward compatible. If all you have internally is a PCI-e v2.0 controller and there is a PCI-e v4.0 device on the other end ... you are not going to get "v 4.0" in your "2.0" box just because they are connected by LP.


Ethernet can use the exact same optical transceivers that LP is using and already has 10-100Gbps standards. Likewise PCI-e and SATA can pick up optical foundation without picking up the LP protocol overhead. There is a huge pile of USB devices that just don't need the speed at all. 50Gbps LP .... phfffff printer stil runs at exactly same speed.


A decent portion of the LP spin is just hype to get folks to adopt yet another new standard protocol. If they came straight out and said "we just want everyone to adopt something new so you have to buy all new stuff". There would be a very large "forget you" and the protocols would continue to evolve.

So Intel spins it as .... "Oh we are going to get along". Then once have traction enough to get included onto a high enough percentage of boards then get folks to do native LP protocol devices. However, it is extremely dubious that will eliminate all the other sockets. It is far more likely to get LP to the point where it can get enough traction to survive, not subsume , the other protocols. In short "embrace and extend" will work well enough. The " Extinguish...." that isn't going to happen.

There are too many things that Ethernet (the world wide web ) , Infinibate (low latency transfers ) , SATA ( high enough bandwidt) , etc. that LP just don't have a better story for.

Basically for the exact same reason that just about everyone still has a RJ-11 jack in their house (even if have VOIP). 25-30 years about phone companies used stuff like microwave, cables, sat, etc. to move phone traffic. Over time lots of that go multiplexed on to fiber cable. That didn't remove the RJ-11 jacks from folks out. Adapters flips the bits back to the legacy traffic so that still plug into the same old jacks.
(yeah there are internet only VOIP phones, but they are small, small , small percentage of all the phones in use. It will be many years before that changes. )

My point regarding a transition is that Light Peak protocol management includes all the currently supported options, with the new LP protocol.

I can still buy a PC motherboard with PS/2 ports. I haven't used them in years, but I still have them.

Intel will still support older protocols while transitioning to LP. They are already predicting it will replace USB 3.0.

http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/04/14/intel.suspects.light.peak.will.take.over/

However, replacing usually entails a 5-10 year full replace.
 
I guarantee you that the reason they're not supporting USB 3.0 is because they're planning on releasing LightPeak as a replacement for USB, and possibly all ports, on a mac in the near future. LightPeak has much more potential than USB 3.0 anyway, so i can't blame him. Also, Apple is part of the reason LightPeak exists, so it would be silly for them to adopt USB 3.0 shortly before adopting a technology that wipes it off the face of the earth. If you don't know what LightPeak is look here.
 
I agree with Steve... who needs all this new technology anyway? Leave that stuff to Windows users who need all the useless hi-tech nonsense. Current technology should fill all the needs of Mac users. USB3 is just another useless small enhancement, like Bluray and i-processors from Intel (Core 2 Duo is enough for most users, and Steve knows that).
 
I'm still waiting for a Mac that has eSATA.

Not going to wait for USB 3.0. My flying car will be too much fun to drive to think about that by then.

Holding out for Steve to put a widespread consumer technology over his own tech agenda (in this case Lightpeak) just to play nice is a waste of your energy. He doesn't change so just roll your eyes at Apple and do something more fun.
 
what, it took age for me ipad to back up with usb2.
if it has usb3, and my notebook have it too, it will not be a problem.

is to believed, it seems Mac users will have to continue to wait for USB 3, According to an email response inquiring about USB3 for Mac, Steve Jobs reportedly wrote:USB 3 has been previously rumored to be coming to the Mac Pro and iMac lines, though the latest email casts some doubt on how quickly Apple will adopt the new standard. USB 3 promises higher speeds for external devices.

Article Link: Steve Jobs: USB 3 Not Taking Off At This Time
 
I have a radical plan for Apple and the way it does things.

Rather than NOT supporting the latest tech and NOT making your computers (In Steve's own words) "The best we can make them" but saying, well stick with old tech for now, but there will be something better in the future.

Here's an idea:

How about supporting the latest tech NOW, then in a few more years when new tech comes along, THEN supporting THAT.

Seeing how Apple operate now, I do not believe that reasons that are publicly given and now only believe it's done for financial corporate reasons than anything technical.

Like in the past when some Military does not use the latest best tech because then have agreements and deal in place already with suppliers of older good.
It's all under the table dealing and you are never told the truth.

We live NOW, we don't live TOMORROW Steve.

When Tomorrow comes you can give us tomorrows tech, but please give us todays tech TODAY.
 
Apple needs to get moving on whatever standard they choose to follow. I hope it's USB 3, not LightPeak - since that's where the rest of the industry is heading. I grew tired of paying a 20%+ premium for Firewire drives - just because the interface wasn't well supported on other platforms.

USB 2 has been too slow for storage use for a long time. The PC side of the industry are happy enough with SATA - but Apple will never follow as it's inflexible, an ugly connector, and unpowered. Products like the MBA are really crippled due to their inability to access fast external storage.
 
Oh come on! If all other computer manufacturers somehow managed to fit this controller in their laptops, Apple could do it. Sure the laptop might have grown in size but nobody would notice. And what about iMacs and Mac Pros? They have been a laughing stock for a lack of pro hardware for quite a while (like GPUs). Is adding a chip also an issue there?

Who's laughing??? Whenever I mention I've got an iMac or someone sees my iMac all I get is awe and jealously, no laughing!
 
an ugly connector

Is the Apple community so vain that it has to always attribute some kind of gradation to the "beauty" of things ? Seriously folks, it's a connector. It's neither ugly nor beautiful.

I've seen this comment pop up in every thread about a connection standard. "It's ugly". What Mini display port is the beautiful brunette in the corner while DVI is the ugly duckling ?

:rolleyes: I'm glad I have more important issues in my life than worrying about how the many different connectors I use look.
 
Is the Apple community so vain that it has to always attribute some kind of gradation to the "beauty" of things ? Seriously folks, it's a connector. It's neither ugly nor beautiful.

It doesn't bother me, but it DOES bother perfectionists like Steve Jobs - and it's Steve Jobs who gets to decide what's included on the Mac. That is highly relevant to this discussion.

SATA connectors are IDC/crimp style on a narrow ribbon cable. They weren't intended for external use. They also don't carry power - so that can often mean a dual wire connection to a PSU-less external drive.
 
USB3 connectors are too big for a MacBook Pro.

... It's neither ugly nor beautiful. ...

Definitely too big to fit on a current MacBook Pro. A FW800 port just barely fits, and it looks like the USB3 connector is much larger than that.

Light Peak connectors appear to be roughly the size of USB2 connectors, so they would fit nicely. End of story (until there's a mini-USB3 connector, if USB3 ever does take off.)

Oh and yeah, USB3 connectors are dog butt ugly.
 
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