Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Steve Jobs: USB 3 Not Taking Off At This Time
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
my PC has Firewire, USB3.0 and eSATA
I've used all of these things with external hard drives.
Not only is there a lack of USB3.0 products on the market, USB3.0 does not fix the design flaws that USB has.
eSATA is much cheaper than USB3 and eSATA's real world performance is better.
Firewire 800 is still better than USB2.0 by a mile and is almost as good as eSATA, plus Firewire doesn't need a power cord like eSATA does.
I would love to see Light Peak in the future, it sux to pay extra for all the different connectors.
I've used all of these things with external hard drives.
Not only is there a lack of USB3.0 products on the market, USB3.0 does not fix the design flaws that USB has.
eSATA is much cheaper than USB3 and eSATA's real world performance is better.
Firewire 800 is still better than USB2.0 by a mile and is almost as good as eSATA, plus Firewire doesn't need a power cord like eSATA does.
I would love to see Light Peak in the future, it sux to pay extra for all the different connectors.
It's nice that Apple included Bluetooth standard back since the dark ages but I've never used it.
Bluetooth mice are far too expensive compared to their generic 2.4 GHz dongle using counterparts.
Sound like Al Gore? He's a pretty smart guy, so I'll take that as a compliment. I'm talking about all that software for Mac, all in one place, all easy to use, and all easy to update with a click, all built in with every Mac. Sure makes it easier and more efficient doesn't it.
Maybe you should listen a little instead of "lol-ing" and ridiculing everyone and everything, because to be frank, I never use my optical drive, I can speak for a lot of people.
This is my opinion, different strokes I guess..
People sure do love to complain around these parts!
USB 3 isn't even so much as on my radar right now, and I fail to see who can honestly say differently at this point in time?
How many devices are you sitting on that support USB 3.0 but your Mac can't connect to them except in backwards-compatible 2.0 mode?
Furthermore, if you DO have such a device, my guess is, you could have accomplished pretty much the same thing if you went with a FW800 device instead? (eSATA is an option too for some Mac systems.)
As others said, Intel will support it in the future if and when they think the need is there. Apple would be foolish to waste money trying to develop a custom motherboard, vs. using what Intel provides them, as long as they're using Intel processors anyway!
USB 3 isn't even so much as on my radar right now, and I fail to see who can honestly say differently at this point in time?
How many devices are you sitting on that support USB 3.0 but your Mac can't connect to them except in backwards-compatible 2.0 mode?
Furthermore, if you DO have such a device, my guess is, you could have accomplished pretty much the same thing if you went with a FW800 device instead? (eSATA is an option too for some Mac systems.)
As others said, Intel will support it in the future if and when they think the need is there. Apple would be foolish to waste money trying to develop a custom motherboard, vs. using what Intel provides them, as long as they're using Intel processors anyway!
There are enough drives enclosures available. Last I checked, I found about 70 of them on Newegg. Probably more every week.
Also, last I heard, USB 3 improves on the problems the previous iterations had.
USB is a lot more versatile.
You don't have to be a dick about it. Not everyone keeps up with this kind of stuff (nor do I blame them).
Exactly this. Once Intel's chipsets start supporting USB 3 (I believe I read sometime in 2011? Don't quote me on that) then we'll see Macs begin supporting USB 3. For whatever reason, it seems that adding an extra chip to support it is too much for Apple to bear.
Would not it be stupid to buy USB 3.0 devices when your computer does not support them? The are many more USB 3.0 devices on the market than FW800 devices, they are also faster and cheaper (Apple does not like that, I know)
Fine, Mr. Jobs, if you don't like usb3.0 then show us something better and faster with Intel support... Maybe lightpeak? But seriously, when do your firm plan to release it?... better be soon because FW800 is not cutting it for the ever expanding HDD capacities... it simply takes too long to transfer files for the size of HDDs we have now. 
Just an FYI from the Windows front: core i motherboards have had USB 3.0 for about a year. I recently purchased an ASUS Rampage Forumla III, which has two NEC controlled USB 3.0 ports, and I get almost full drive speeds. For example, my Samsung 2TB is at half capacity and gets about 90MB/s through an external drive dock. This is way faster than USB 2.0, obviously, and also better than gigabit NAS.
Now I realize that's Windows info, but note that CalDigit, the mac-centric storage vendor, also has a USB 3.0 card and companion drive enclosure. As far as I can tell, CalDigit is a respected company, and not "crappy first gen" tech.
I would love Light Peak *today*, assuming all of its uni-bus Utopian promise, but my storage requirements can't wait two more years. Apple is conservative on the component front, which of course gives them a lot more control over the usage model and expectations (and profit). I would never count on them to provide tech that exposes them in ANY way as risk-takers.
Oh, and to the PCIE x1 criticism - that's 2.5GBps, which even at 8/10 bit overhead is 2GBps, which makes the interface speed 250MBps. This is faster than any platter drive, and though a good SSD will saturate the line, USB is more of an extension bus than a primary one. Point being that, "they aren't even using the full speed..." doesn't really matter in this case, because it is faster than any single spinning drive, faster than many SSD and RAID setups, and a legitimate "stop-gap" DAS measure until Light Peak (hopefully) comes out in however-long-it-will-take.
You won't have to upgrade anything. Just like USB 1.1->2.0, the transition to USB 3.0 is a very smooth, painless affair.
This is USB 1.1 -> 2.0 all over again.
I recall Apple being VERY late to supporting USB 2.0; they didn't support it until it had already been on generic PCs for quite some time. I remember buying a TiBook in 2003 and having to deal with USB 1.1 much longer than anyone should have to.
I also wonder why Intel is lagging in support. Hell, weren't they the ones that pushed USB 2.0 so hard in the first place over Firewire?
I recall Apple being VERY late to supporting USB 2.0; they didn't support it until it had already been on generic PCs for quite some time. I remember buying a TiBook in 2003 and having to deal with USB 1.1 much longer than anyone should have to.
I also wonder why Intel is lagging in support. Hell, weren't they the ones that pushed USB 2.0 so hard in the first place over Firewire?
What are you talkling about? All of Apple's Mac motherboards are custom. They don't use a standard format motherboards in anything.
That is one reason why people are tweaked. The fact is that just about all the standard motherboard markers are churning out USB 3.0 boards. They first started dropping this time last year and at this point you can't go to a decent store that sells standard format motherboards that does not have at least 4-5 different boards with USB 3.0 for both Intel and AMD processors.
When the system vendors rev their designs to absorb the boards the standard source vendors are doing they will have them too. Since had to redesign for Sandy Bridge and AMD updates anyway lots of new designs probably picked up USB 3.0 over the last year. They will start appearing on the market in increasing larger numbers over the next 12 months. Apple can sti out 2011 if they want to, but very few of the other larger vendors are. At least on some subset of the models they release.
Intel is the about the only major board supplier ignoring USB 3.0. Probably, in part because don't want to buy NEC/Renesas chips. Just don't want to have to pay someone else for USB implementation. Just like you are not likely going to see Apple buying a truckload of Dell boxes.
The first gen USB 3.0 implementation didn't fit well with low power designs. That is a disconnect with Apple. The second problem have is that this is yet another chip. Several Apple motherboard designs don't have room, power, and/or bandwidth. [ Don't have them for LightPeak either.... ]
So basically, it will be a major FAIL for external hard drives and pretty much all external devices that are used in the mobile space. Because you WILL need an integrated power source here, and USB 3.0 provides that (and sufficient speed for the next years).
Nor is making up excuses to save production costs of like 10 bucks per Mac and leaving out a very useful feature as a consequence.
I'm sure they'll support usb3 when the integrated chipsets do. Apple's smart not to add another power-sucking, space-occupying, heat-generating, complexity-adding die to the motherboard to support it.
Wow -- 13 pages of comments on this, and I think everybody has missed the point.
• Yes, Apple will most likely add USB 3 when Intel controllers are part of the standard chipset packages.
• One reason for this is cost
• One reason for this is physical space -- Apple laptops are quite small, remember (yes, even the Pros)
• Another big reason is compatibility -- I think Apple is probably concerned that the current USB chipsets may end up having some compatibility issues with the Intel chipsets that will inevitably become standard in another handful of months, and they do NOT want to release something now that could have problems with USB 3.0 devices down the road, that have been engineered and QA tested with what will then be the prevalent chipsets, made by Intel. This was a big problem with Firewire devices when the standard was new, and very much a problem with eSATA. Frankly, still is -- some controllers are MUCH MUCH MUCH better than others in terms of performance, and flakiness. I think Apple wants to avoid this as much as possible with USB 3.0, and this is probably the MAIN reason it's not out yet on Macs. Be patient.
• Yes, Apple will most likely add USB 3 when Intel controllers are part of the standard chipset packages.
• One reason for this is cost
• One reason for this is physical space -- Apple laptops are quite small, remember (yes, even the Pros)
• Another big reason is compatibility -- I think Apple is probably concerned that the current USB chipsets may end up having some compatibility issues with the Intel chipsets that will inevitably become standard in another handful of months, and they do NOT want to release something now that could have problems with USB 3.0 devices down the road, that have been engineered and QA tested with what will then be the prevalent chipsets, made by Intel. This was a big problem with Firewire devices when the standard was new, and very much a problem with eSATA. Frankly, still is -- some controllers are MUCH MUCH MUCH better than others in terms of performance, and flakiness. I think Apple wants to avoid this as much as possible with USB 3.0, and this is probably the MAIN reason it's not out yet on Macs. Be patient.
Thank you for saying this. I didn't feel like reading the whole thread to see if anyone touched on the obvious. In Apple's recent devices there simply isn't ANY room for extra chips. It's all battery. That's they way it'll be going forward for the mobile line. I think for the desktops it's simply a matter of stability and letting Intel do all the work.
First...
Most people don't care/know about/have ever heard of USB 3 unless you are posting on this board. Most people don't know the difference between USB 1/2 or Firewire. Most people don't use external hard drives. Remember stores are selling "printer" cables at 1000% markup because most people don't know any better.
Secondly...
It's a pattern Apple has always followed. Apple doesn't really believe in upgrades or future-proofing its products. Apple wants you to buy new products all the time. Apple may someday add USB 3 if it becomes a popular enough and will convince you its the greatest thing ever...if you really need it you will sell your old computer and buy a new one. Buy what you need/want now or don't buy. Complaining doesn't help. I choose not to buy anymore Mac's without a blu-ray drive. My 2006 MacPro is holding up fine anyway.
Most people don't care/know about/have ever heard of USB 3 unless you are posting on this board. Most people don't know the difference between USB 1/2 or Firewire. Most people don't use external hard drives. Remember stores are selling "printer" cables at 1000% markup because most people don't know any better.
Secondly...
It's a pattern Apple has always followed. Apple doesn't really believe in upgrades or future-proofing its products. Apple wants you to buy new products all the time. Apple may someday add USB 3 if it becomes a popular enough and will convince you its the greatest thing ever...if you really need it you will sell your old computer and buy a new one. Buy what you need/want now or don't buy. Complaining doesn't help. I choose not to buy anymore Mac's without a blu-ray drive. My 2006 MacPro is holding up fine anyway.
Why people are calling Steve an idiot or moron is beyond me. I'm not a fan of Steve Jobs by any means, but he did build a computer computer from the ground up, developing a loyal fan base and brand image equivalent to Harley Davidson(well, without the leather and tattoos). Steve probably knows more than we do guys. Relax.
There's a probability that you will never buy another Mac. Fair enough.
My own opinion is that Apple will support AVC encode/decode off Sandy Bridge in iMovie/FCE/FCS but not support BD. I would be okay with merely supporting an AVC BD container for SDXC as I already have a Panasonic BD Player with SD AVC support.
