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Steve Jobs: USB 3 Not Taking Off At This Time
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USB 3 and SATA 6 are the two things holding me back for my next computer. I'm not buying another until that's in them.
I know that sounds hard headed but if I'm dropping $2k for a new 27" iMac with big SSD and all the other I want the highest end data connections I can get. It'll keep me happy for a longer time. SSD has already started to exceed what current SATA connections can handle.
I know that sounds hard headed but if I'm dropping $2k for a new 27" iMac with big SSD and all the other I want the highest end data connections I can get. It'll keep me happy for a longer time. SSD has already started to exceed what current SATA connections can handle.
My point was to do with market adoptance and price.
Since Apple restricted the 1394b to the high end machines, and since 1394b needed a different (or additional) connector - then 3rd party disk companies looked at 1394b as having significant cost, and a potential market that was a niche of a niche.
USB 2.0, on the other hand, was completely compatible and had no extra cost for controller or connector.
I don't know why one has to lay out his own cash to purchase an Apple to understand those market forces. It really doesn't have anything to do with how the user interacts with her devices on her platform of choice.
Since Apple restricted the 1394b to the high end machines, and since 1394b needed a different (or additional) connector - then 3rd party disk companies looked at 1394b as having significant cost, and a potential market that was a niche of a niche.
USB 2.0, on the other hand, was completely compatible and had no extra cost for controller or connector.
I don't know why one has to lay out his own cash to purchase an Apple to understand those market forces. It really doesn't have anything to do with how the user interacts with her devices on her platform of choice.
ASUS Eee PC with USB 3 for $370 is the lowest price computer
with USB 3 that I could find.
http://www.asus.com/product.aspx?P_ID=4Bf6sc0o5FMGABzh
Looking forward
Steve Jobs always likes to look forward to what's next.
If Apple is planning on using Lightpeak very soon would it make sense for them to start adding USB 3 right now and have customers go out and buy USB 3 peripherals just to be pissed off at Apple maybe soon when they add Lightpeak?
Yes it is speculation but it makes sense to me. Everyone that knows how Steve Jobs works knows that he doesn't like to start on something that is going to be old tech soon, he wants to be the company that is using the latest tech that he thinks will be dominate. And if you look at Lightpeak using fiber optic connection I don't see how he could be wrong on that one. What are they going to come out with a USB cable thats faster than light??
Steve Jobs always likes to look forward to what's next.
If Apple is planning on using Lightpeak very soon would it make sense for them to start adding USB 3 right now and have customers go out and buy USB 3 peripherals just to be pissed off at Apple maybe soon when they add Lightpeak?
Yes it is speculation but it makes sense to me. Everyone that knows how Steve Jobs works knows that he doesn't like to start on something that is going to be old tech soon, he wants to be the company that is using the latest tech that he thinks will be dominate. And if you look at Lightpeak using fiber optic connection I don't see how he could be wrong on that one. What are they going to come out with a USB cable thats faster than light??
So, in your view Apple is helping consumers by selling them computers with USB 2.0 instead of USB 3.0? Only in the Apple distortion field USB 2 is better than USB 3.
Doesn't really matter actually. Steve knows people will ALWAYS complain about Apple's products, for whatever reason, no matter what they do. Sure, it would be good to have USB 3, but then I know this thread would be full of people complaining about something else, like the lack of, say, a fingerprint reader, which is nearly useless.
I'd say that his position on BD is a counter-example.
Weirdly enough, I just authored and burned a BD on my mac.
Why would they get pissed when the LP got added in addition to USB 3.0 ? There is zero reason why anyone building a computer would turn this into an exclusive or situation. There may be some more specail purpose devices which are only USB 3.0 or LP but there is few reasons why it has to be exclusive. Especially when Intel both updates the core chipsets to either provide more PCI-e v2.0 and/or PCI-e V3.0 lanes and/or incorporates USB 3.0 into the core chipset itself ( where you get maybe 1-2 USB 3.0 connection and 4-5 regular USBs connection support built in. ) .
The HUGE unsubstantiated assumption being thrown around here is that it will be common for systems to only offer one of these. Not even Intel has said that. There is hand wavy future (out 3-5 years ) speculation about maybe convergence way off in the distance. That is just marketing smoke for a product that isn't even on the market yet.
I can see 150 Million reasons can go wrong. The 150+ Million iOS devices that will floating around out there by the time Apple releases any Mac with LP on it. Likewise the 1+ Billion other USB devices floating around out there in the world at that point in time also.
A USB 3.0 is instantly compatible with all 1.15 Billion of those devices.
Let's see iOS revenues accounts for what ...... 40-50% of Apple's revenues? Nah..... no way that has any baring on it.
So the notion that Apple is going to rip all the USB sockets off of their future Macs is an extremely dubious notion.
So there are Macs with USB sockets on them far into the immediate future. No here is the equally dubious part. Why wouldn't Apple make 1 or 2 of those USB 3.0 if that functionality is supposed in the core chipset that they have to buy anyway ? When you stick your iPad into the socket it charges/transfers data using exactly the same cord you do now . At some other time when you stick a USB 3.0 device into the same socket it works at a substantially faster speed with a USB 3.0 cable.
Apple could even come out with a 32-34 pin dock connector which would make the new iPods with the extra SuperSpeed pins connected transfer at USB 3.0 speeds when coupled with a cable that takes them all the way across.
The reason why Firewire got dumped from the iPods was that Apple had to go with the lowest common denominator , yet fastest , bus since need a solution for the whole PC market (not just the Mac subset). When USB 3.0 makes it to the core chipsets of AMD and Intel it will only be about 18-28 months until that is USB 3.0 . ***
Is there a delay putting USB into the core chipsets? Yeah. In part, because it needs lots of bandwdith to work to spec across the range. LP is even worse bandwidth hog to put into the core chipset. Especially if want to expand past just 2 sockets. It isn't going in any time soon.
LP may not get adopted by everyone. Many sysetms won't have "spare" 4x-6x PCI-e v2.0 lanes to plug the controller into. Nobody is even hinting at putting it into the core chipsets. To date there is only one controller implementation. It isn't even standardized or even gone to a committee. Certainly some upscale systems are going to get it.
That doesn't make it a good candidate to put inside of an iOS device. Second it is a two chip solution. An optical transciever chip. A LP controller chip. Exactly where is the copious extra space generally inside of iOS devices ( iPad aside) ? Since LP wouldn't be industry pervasive or compatible they'd have to include a LP to USB dongle. What is that going to cost $30-40 .... it is $20 just for something that is largely just USB. Let alone have to put conversion electronics inside of it.
Steve could decree all Macs get LP. That's about 4-6% of the PC market. The iOS devices primarily sell to the other 94-6% .
earlier version of USB proposed by Intel had a optical SuperSpeed bus. That got reject.
Second.... fast as light has nothing to do with it. Using light gives you less secondary, and often increasingly bad as increase speed , side effects.
ahh well that makes sense then. lucky bugger
i would say not many, as most people would have used windows (or some variant) and therefore have a good inclanation of how it might work.
And how many pieces of non-Apple hardware and software did you need to do that?
And is it a native BD as recognized by consumer BD players - or is it a mutant?
And, could you review it on your Apple, or did you have to insert the BD disc into your home system to verify that it's OK?
You got that wrong. USB is smaller than FW800. The USB 3 connector is exactly the same size as USB 1.1 or 2.0. What you see in the picture is the peripheral side.
An external BD drive, and Toast Titanium Pro. Plays on my PS3 and on my mac. It's for the in-laws (kid movies).
I used to this on my PC. The PC also used a third party BD drive (same drive, in fact) and software. Not much difference from where I'm sitting.
i dont know how this got onto BD again, but MakeMKV wins!Until you try to watch a Hollywood BD....
Thats just not true...FireWire required specific hardware inside of iPods to be supported. Since FireWire usage was lower then that of USB, FW got the axe.
Until you try to watch a Hollywood BD....
I do that all the time with makem4v and vlc. I even make personal back-up copies that play natively, but usually I don't watch the copies.
Sheesh this is beating a dead horse to oblivion.
USB 3 - Intel isn't putting it in the chipsets (yet). Apple could roll their own but why? It isn't like consumers at large are feeling heat because USB 2 or Firewire is all that slow.
Blueray - Not gonna happen folks. I don't care how good looking Blueray is mechanical devices have no place in laptops anymore. The Macbook Air update is fantastic. Fast and no slow spinning devices to slow it down. Blueray on a Mac is stillborn and i'm glad. I'll continue to enjoy my movies the proper way on a HDTV being fed by my Samsung BD player.
Lightpeak is far more enticing IMO- It'll support USB 3, DisplayPort and Networking protocols over a single cable that can extend to 328 feet. Make more sense in the long term as a adjunct connectivity platform to Wireless tech.
USB 3 - Intel isn't putting it in the chipsets (yet). Apple could roll their own but why? It isn't like consumers at large are feeling heat because USB 2 or Firewire is all that slow.
Blueray - Not gonna happen folks. I don't care how good looking Blueray is mechanical devices have no place in laptops anymore. The Macbook Air update is fantastic. Fast and no slow spinning devices to slow it down. Blueray on a Mac is stillborn and i'm glad. I'll continue to enjoy my movies the proper way on a HDTV being fed by my Samsung BD player.
Lightpeak is far more enticing IMO- It'll support USB 3, DisplayPort and Networking protocols over a single cable that can extend to 328 feet. Make more sense in the long term as a adjunct connectivity platform to Wireless tech.
Due for a new Mac, but .....
Like some others, this transfer-bandwidth issue has got me waiting (OK Steve, please give us a workable timeframe for the successor to FW/USB2).
Looks like ExpressCard or PCIe is the way for now.
From http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html#6
"It is important to note that NEC (now Renesas Electronics) and Fresco Logic are the only fabs to produce xHCI USB 3.0 host silicons as of this writing (October 2010). Until Intel, nVidia and AMD start bundling USB 3.0 as part of their motherboard chipset, companies interested in equipping USB 3.0 on their systems will have to source from said fabs for the chipsets."
Like some others, this transfer-bandwidth issue has got me waiting (OK Steve, please give us a workable timeframe for the successor to FW/USB2).
Looks like ExpressCard or PCIe is the way for now.
From http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html#6
"It is important to note that NEC (now Renesas Electronics) and Fresco Logic are the only fabs to produce xHCI USB 3.0 host silicons as of this writing (October 2010). Until Intel, nVidia and AMD start bundling USB 3.0 as part of their motherboard chipset, companies interested in equipping USB 3.0 on their systems will have to source from said fabs for the chipsets."
Absolutely right - Light Peak will allow 10G connectivity to a 2012 model MBA without spoiling the look - so why bother with an interim technology.
http://www.electronista.com/articles/10/09/16/intel.doesnt.see.light.peak.ready.for.two.years/
To all the people saying they'd rather have lightpeak:
Do you seriously expect to see lightpeak thumbdrives? Lightpeak mice? Lightpeak coffee pots?
USB will remain the standard connector on computers for the next 10 years, if not longer. Lightpeak could come out tomorrow and this won't change. If anything we'll see lightpeak ports added in along side USB on new computers. So if you're going to have USB ports, why not make them USB 3?\
Even Intel doesn't see lightpeak replacing USB, just supplementing it.
Do you seriously expect to see lightpeak thumbdrives? Lightpeak mice? Lightpeak coffee pots?
USB will remain the standard connector on computers for the next 10 years, if not longer. Lightpeak could come out tomorrow and this won't change. If anything we'll see lightpeak ports added in along side USB on new computers. So if you're going to have USB ports, why not make them USB 3?\
Even Intel doesn't see lightpeak replacing USB, just supplementing it.
I respectfully disagree, the days of Apple being the launch partner for new technologies seem to be over, take the MacPro for example with the xeon's and how long it took Apple to use i series processors. If a Mac didn't come loaded with OS X it wouldn't be worth buying.