Steve Jobs: USB 3 Not Taking Off At This Time

[dgree03]

Why are any manufacturers going to drop the $$ to include 3.0 until there is enough demand for it?

You can't find 3.0 included in most computers right now, unless you go and buy your own motherboard or a computer from a very specific niche of the industry.

You need to have market share (or in apple's case mindshare) for consumers to care or be aware of of a product like usb 3.0, which goes way over the heads of the vast majority of such consumers.

Simply put, until 3.0 is prevalent in consumer devices besides computers thus requiring said computers to have 3.0, people aren't going to care or even know what usb 3.0 is.

Again I'd like to note I'm talking about consumers, meaning not computer nerds like us.

Please tell me where the "demand" will come from? Was there a "demand" for USB 2.0? Or was it just a natural progression to a better standard?

We are talking about functionality that is, in general, not a customers number one priority.

Customer: Can my flash drive fit into that slot?
Employee: yes and you have 2 of them.

They would not care about speed, until they have and issue with it. I would venture more important than speed is reliablity.

USB 3.0 will be a standard, if only because it is easily backward compatiable to USB 2.0. That should be enough reason for apple to include it on their next year laptop line.

As of today, I do not think apple will put USB 3.0 in there line next year. Apple is hardly ever a place for new tech to live(unless they create it)

 

[NT1440]

Please tell me where the "demand" will come from? Was there a "demand" for USB 2.0? Or was it just a natural progression to a better standard?

We are talking about functionality that is, in general, not a customers number one priority.

Customer: Can my flash drive fit into that slot?
Employee: yes and you have 2 of them.

They would not care about speed, until they have and issue with it. I would venture more important than speed is reliablity.

USB 3.0 will be a standard, if only because it is easily backward compatiable to USB 2.0. That should be enough reason for apple to include it on their next year laptop line.

As of today, I do not think apple will put USB 3.0 in there line next year. Apple is hardly ever a place for new tech to live(unless they create it)

USB 1.0 and 1.1 were painfully slow. There was a demand for something faster for devices

 

[John.B]

Not to mention if Apple waits for USB3 to be as ubiquitous as USB2 is right now before shipping it, we're in for the long haul. USB2 is close to eol right now. Thank god Apple didn't wait to implement it.

How about implementing it when it's on the rise, not when it's on the decline ?

I think they are going to try to implement Light Peak when it is on the rise....

 

[NT1440]

Please tell me where the "demand" will come from? Was there a "demand" for USB 2.0? Or was it just a natural progression to a better standard?

We are talking about functionality that is, in general, not a customers number one priority.

Customer: Can my flash drive fit into that slot?
Employee: yes and you have 2 of them.

They would not care about speed, until they have and issue with it. I would venture more important than speed is reliablity.

USB 3.0 will be a standard, if only because it is easily backward compatiable to USB 2.0. That should be enough reason for apple to include it on their next year laptop line.

As of today, I do not think apple will put USB 3.0 in there line next year. Apple is hardly ever a place for new tech to live(unless they create it)

USB 1.0 and 1.1 were painfully slow. There was a demand for something faster for devices such as mp3 players and cellphones, hence the natural progression to usb 2.0.

That said, 3.0 at this stage is more of a speed bump only for those that truly need it. Until devices, such as mp3 players and such, are using 3.0 to interface with computers, the only real demand for it will be in storage which is a niche market.

Right now 2.0 is the norm and being that is seen as "good enough" for those who have no clue what 3.0 is.

 

[John.B]

When it comes down to it, right now, I think I'd love to trade in FW800 for USB 3. Even fewer than nobody uses FW800 right now, and it almost can't be found at retail, except maybe Apple's store.

I use a FireWire audio interface* every time I record. So I guess that qualifies me for "fewer than nobody" status?

BTW, I picked up a FW800 drive from Best Buy a couple of weekends ago, I cloned my hard drive over to it and did an upgrade on the FireWire-based drive image before committing to an update on a computer with a lot of important music and applications on it.

* Because USB audio interfaces depend on the CPU to move data across the bus in addition to encoding, etc. they are notorious for generating noise from the Rice Krispies triplets: Snap, Crackle, and Pop...

 

[SockRolid]

USB3 might never replace FireWire on MacBooks.

...
The connector on the computers looks EXACTLY the same. It's only the device connector that looks different. Not Steve's problem. ...

Then FireWire will live on forever. USB3 will never replace FireWire (on MacBooks) unless a mini-USB3 device connector is designed for it. FireWire target disk mode requires that you connect two Macs together with, you guessed it, a FireWire cable. And FireWire 400 and 800 each have identical computer and device connectors.

 

[dgree03]

USB 1.0 and 1.1 were painfully slow. There was a demand for something faster for devices such as mp3 players and cellphones, hence the natural progression to usb 2.0.

That said, 3.0 at this stage is more of a speed bump only for those that truly need it. Until devices, such as mp3 players and such, are using 3.0 to interface with computers, the only real demand for it will be in storage which is a niche market.

Right now 2.0 is the norm and being that is seen as "good enough" for those who have no clue what 3.0 is.

They were only slow when there was something WAY faster. At the time USB 1.1 was "goood enough"

I asked you how do you judge demand on port on a computer? I dont think there needs to be "demand" for a backwards compatible USB port.

On light peak, there would need to be some sort of demand OVER USB 2.0 or 3.0.

 

[weckart]

Then FireWire will live on forever. USB3 will never replace FireWire (on MacBooks) unless a mini-USB3 device connector is designed for it. FireWire target disk mode requires that you connect two Macs together with, you guessed it, a FireWire cable. And FireWire 400 and 800 each have identical computer and device connectors.

USB 2 has already superseded FW on Apples sole remaining Macbook. Since USB2 and USB3 sockets are the same size and USB3 is backward compatible, I cannot see the problem in moving to USB3 from the point of view of space on the housing. If you look at portable USB3 drives, you would notice the micro USB3 connector they sport.

 

[Piggie]

Again, I struggle to comprehend the mentality of some people on this forum.

Would you like something that's faster than what you have now?

Answer = No, what I have now is fast enough for my need thanks.

But it's backwards compatible, so you can plug all your current items into it, but when you go shopping if you see something that runs at the higher speed then you will be able to take advantage of it.

Answer = No, Not interested.

And to back it up, I don't like the look of the new connector !!

I don't want anything faster now, I want to wait till something even faster that's not out yet comes along.

Jesus, I'm amazed some people here actually managed to progress out of caves.

 

[dgree03]

Again, I struggle to comprehend the mentality of some people on this forum.

Would you like something that's faster than what you have now?

Answer = No, what I have now is fast enough for my need thanks.

But it's backwards compatible, so you can plug all your current items into it, but when you go shopping if you see something that runs at the higher speed then you will be able to take advantage of it.

Answer = No, Not interested.

And to back it up, I don't like the look of the new connector !!

I don't want anything faster now, I want to wait till something even faster that's not out yet comes along.

Jesus, I'm amazed some people here actually managed to progress out of caves.

Tell me about it! Too many people here are trying to think like a CEO and not like a customer!

Just look at the Bluray thread or this one, or any apple tv thread. People are constantly talking as if they wouldnt benefit from faster, or better formats or perpherials.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Steve Jobs is a pathological liar.

USB 3, like BD, is widely available on PCs starting at $700.
Photography websites have tested USB 3 external
hard drives that transfer RAW files 3x-5x than USB 2
or FW 800.

Sorry, the RDF is broken. He's holding it wrong. Stay tuned.

 

[NT1440]

USB 3, like BD, is widely available on PCs starting at $700.

Source?

 

[Don Kosak]

All of these different ports and buses are ridiculous.

We should push for one standardized I/O bus for medium distance interconnectivity. (i.e.: anything you need a 1' to 50' cable to connect.)

PoE - Power Over Ethernet is already at 10 Gigabits and delivers about 80 watts, that's enough juice for LED backlit monitors, external drives, etc. You could replace display ports, firewire, USB, etc with PoE.

I prefer wireless, but when you need ultra high speed combined with power, something like PoE makes a lot of sense.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I find it funny people think light peak will replace USB. That could not be father from the truth.

For most things Leak peak will be massive and I mean MASSIVE over kill. For example USB is great for mice and little things will all hook up to our computers. We do not need the much data bandwith. Now lets look at firewire. It has great amount of bandwithe but is rarely use by most of the world.

USB 3.0 is backwards compatible with USB 2.0,1.1, and 1.0. Light peak is not.
This means USB 3.0 will replace USB 2.0 in computers just because of it being backwards compatible.
Light peak will be like Firewire. Great for when it needs to be used but for most of the world it is worthless. At most I see it becoming a new display port since it will be able to handle larger displays that have things like USB, firewire and other things plug into them but it will not replace USB.

 

[GregAndonian]

In other news, ANOTHER awesome technology that Apple won't support just won an EMMY!

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=5389#comments

 

[ericinboston]

There have been some articles throught 2010 stating that Intel is not quite on board with USB 3.0...because USB 3.0 will cut into their profits from some other technology (I forget what). Therefore, the articles are stating that since Intel is not supporting it locally in the motherboards/BIOS, that's a sign that Intel may never...which understandably scares off the hardware vendors from creating USB 3.0 devices because they don't want to have to make and support their Drivers.

However...articles are articles and we'll see what happens. There are already numerous external hard drives on USB 3.0 and people rave about the speeds. Plenty of mid-priced PC desktops and higher end-priced PC notebooks (over $1200) support USB 3.0.

My bet is that USB 3.0 will finally be embraced by Intel soon...we've all waited very long for this and there's really no reason to crush it if a better technology does NOT already exist and is consumer-friendly for pricing.

 

[baryon]

Yay, another stupid shaped cable.

Why not make ONE cable that works with everything? And why not make it a JACK? Apple proved with the iPod Shuffle that USB can go through a jack with 4 wires. Why not invent a new connector, that is a jack, with just ONE, small size, that has no right or wrong way to connect, and is compatible with everything? This connector should also supply much more than the current, ridiculous 500 mA that isn't even enough to power a hard drive, leading people to have to use stupid adapters and dual-USB cables that use up all the 2 (because there are only two for some reason...) ports on your MacBook Pro.

Why are people overcomplicating things with these stupid cables, like FireWire 800 and USB 3?

 

[dgree03]

Yay, another stupid shaped cable.

Why not make ONE cable that works with everything? And why not make it a JACK? Apple proved with the iPod Shuffle that USB can go through a jack with 4 wires. Why not invent a new connector, that is a jack, with just ONE, small size, that has no right or wrong way to connect, and is compatible with everything?

Why are people overcomplicating things with these stupid cables, like FireWire 800 and USB 3?

USB 3.0 has the same connector as 2.0 it seems.

 

[lilo777]

USB 1.0 and 1.1 were painfully slow. There was a demand for something faster for devices such as mp3 players and cellphones, hence the natural progression to usb 2.0.

That said, 3.0 at this stage is more of a speed bump only for those that truly need it. Until devices, such as mp3 players and such, are using 3.0 to interface with computers, the only real demand for it will be in storage which is a niche market.

Right now 2.0 is the norm and being that is seen as "good enough" for those who have no clue what 3.0 is.

MP3 player owners already can benefit from USB 3.0 - just not iPod owners. Those who have MP3 players with flash cards can buy USB 3.0 card reader. Same goes for photo cameras.

 

[KnightWRX]

USB 3.0 has the same connector as 2.0 it seems.

Let's make this clear once and for all :

http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html#5

5. Will my existing peripherals still work? How will they co-exist?

The good news is that USB 3.0 has been carefully planned from the start to peacefully co-exist with USB 2.0. First of all, while USB 3.0 specifies new physical connections and thus new cables to take advantage of the higher speed capability of the new protocol, the connector itself remains the same rectangular shape with the four USB 2.0 contacts in the exact same location as before. Five new connections to carry receive and transitted data independently are present on USB 3.0 cables and only come into contact when mated with a proper SuperSpeed USB connection.

Ok, again :

the connector itself remains the same rectangular shape with the four USB 2.0 contacts in the exact same location as before.

Just to make sure everyone is clear on this :

the same rectangular shape

Capiche ?

I hope no new posters come with the stupid notion of somekind of different connector...

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Yay, another stupid shaped cable.

Why not make ONE cable that works with everything? And why not make it a JACK? Apple proved with the iPod Shuffle that USB can go through a jack with 4 wires. Why not invent a new connector, that is a jack, with just ONE, small size, that has no right or wrong way to connect, and is compatible with everything? This connector should also supply much more than the current, ridiculous 500 mA that isn't even enough to power a hard drive, leading people to have to use stupid adapters and dual-USB cables that use up all the 2 (because there are only two for some reason...) ports on your MacBook Pro.

Why are people overcomplicating things with these stupid cables, like FireWire 800 and USB 3?

Have you look at what the connector USB3.0 looks like. The standard connector (like the one on a USB flash drive) will connect to a 2.0 port just fine and would run at 2.0 speeds.

A 2.0 wire will connect to a 3.0 port. The only time a 3.0 wire/connector will not work with a 2.0 connection is if running on the square connection, micro or mine connection but standard one like on our computers is 100% backwards compatible with out ANY modification or adaptors like you need to connect a FW400 to 800 port.

 

[barmann]

Again, I struggle to comprehend the mentality of some people on this forum.
....
Jesus, I'm amazed some people here actually managed to progress out of caves.

It's the inevitable '95% of users' rule.
Aka: if I don't know anyone who needs it, noone needs it .

Progress is not part of the equation; arguably, the infamous 95% of users would be perfectly happy with a G3 and OS 8 .

USB 2.0 is inferior in every respect to even FW 400, but for one thing - the PC industry never embraced it.

 

[KnightWRX]

It's the inevitable '95% of users' rule.
Aka: if I don't know anyone who needs it, noone needs it .

From reading the comments on this issue, the blu-ray issue, etc... it's more the "Steve said it" rule.

Aka : If Steve said it, I will defend it to the death!

 

[deconstruct60]

That said, 3.0 at this stage is more of a speed bump only for those that truly need it. Until devices, such as mp3 players and such, are using 3.0 to interface with computers, the only real demand for it will be in storage which is a niche market.

How is storage a niche market? Backups a niche market ? Ever back up a 100GB drive that is mostly full via a USB 2.0 socket? A 250GB dirve? Probably not because it takes a long time. Fact is that USB 2.0 is slower than many modern hard drives when they are streaming data to the drive (writing/reading stuff sequentially). So now you are paying for functionality of a drive which USB 2.0 proceeds to throttle it and not give you access to it. Why is that an acceptable status quo ?


USB 3.0 is not just a speed bump. If want an example of a niche market, it also allows much better isochronous and latency performance. Meaning you can use it to record music/video without getting dropouts and/or interference from slow devices also attached. Essentially, the new SuperSpeed wires are run separately from the USB 2.0 wires. So the legacy devices and lecgacy protocol problems that hindered USB 2.0 use for these kinds of applications is gone.

There is a bit of a "chicken or the egg" effect here. Some uptick in peripherals (cameras, audio equipment , etc. ) won't happen unitl there are computer to plug into. Likewise some computer system vendors won't put on until there are peripherals. Both sides are moving at this point though.

 

[Piggie]

I feel USB3 will just gradually happen, even if you don't need it, it will just happen.

USB3 hardware will become cheaper, and if you are a manufacturer you want to give your product the edge over someone else's, so you wil fit the USB3 chip into you device so you can put it on your adverts.

This will be seem be consumers over time and the move will just happen.

Like now, many would say, well if I'm getting a new Mboard, I'll get one with USB3 on it. No point in limiting myself to 2.0 now.

It's early days, but the PC and peripheral market will move to the faster better standard naturally.

If Apple wants to sit on the sidelines and say Mac users don't need it, then that's up to them.