Steve Jobs: USB 3 Not Taking Off At This Time

[Rodimus Prime]

Wrong.

Light Peak also has the ability to run multiple protocols simultaneously over a single cable, enabling the technology to connect devices such as peripherals, displays, disk drives, docking stations, and more. . Light Peak components are expected to begin to become available to customers in late 2010, and Intel expects to see Light Peak in PCs and peripherals in 2011.

Today, if you want to plug a display into PC one needs a display cable plugged into a display connector. Likewise if one was to plug a projector into a PC a different projector cable and connector are needed. Not so with Light Peak, because the Light Peak controller implements multi-protocol.

The multi-protocol capability the controller implements is an innovative new technology that will enable new usage models like flexible system designs and thinner form factors, media creation and connectivity, faster media transfer and cable simplification. As end users rely more on their PC’s and CE devices as they go mobile, they want smaller and thinner form factors.

Intel is planning to supply the controller chip and is working with optical component manufacturers to make Light Peak components ready to ship in late 2010, and expects complete systems in 2011. Light Peak is complementary to existing I/O technologies, as it enables them to run together on a single cable at higher speeds.





Hopefully you will get the idea that are you still making an argument over USB 3.0 without the understanding of what LightPeak is.

You do not get it.
A Light peak port can not connect directly to a USB devices with out extra equipment.
End of story. The fact that Light peak can move the data does not mean it can support a USB devices directly.
That is what you are missing.

 

[Fraaaa]

Except USB3 offers progress while maintaining current peripheral compatibility, easing the transition. What's the downside exactly ? Look, in the end, the best technology doesn't always win. Sometimes, convenience wins out. VHS over Beta, USB over Firewire, there's plenty of examples out there.

By your logic, we should throw away perfectly good working hardware every 3 years just to please some corporate overload. Do I really need LightPeak bandwidth for a mouse and keyboard ?

Do you need an USB 3.0 for that?

So because LP is too good is not going to take off?
And you can plug USBs to it as you would do it on a normal USB port, no dongle for that.

Are we over with this? Please?

 

[firestarter]

No, I happen to like the rolleyes. Maybe ask the admins or mods to remove it if you don't like it ?

Fair enough. I'll have to remember that you like it whenever I get to reply to one of your posts

 

[Fraaaa]

You do not get it.
A Light peak port can not connect directly to a USB devices with out extra equipment.
End of story. The fact that Light peak can move the data does not mean it can support a USB devices directly.
That is what you are missing.

LP in fact has USB-style port, proven in the picture. End of story.

 

[firestarter]

Light Peak also has the ability to run multiple protocols simultaneously over a single cable, enabling the technology to connect devices such as peripherals, displays, disk drives, docking stations, and more. . Light Peak components are expected to begin to become available to customers in late 2010, and Intel expects to see Light Peak in PCs and peripherals in 2011.

Fraaa, you've sold me on Lightpeak.

It would be great to have a computer with only one type of connector for everything - graphics, networking, peripherals - and Lightpeak certainly looks better thought out from a driver stack point of view than USB3.

Intel really has to get themselves in gear on this though. The PC world isn't hurting when it comes to external storage - since they've been happy to adopt eSATA.

I really think the Mac world IS starting to hurt though. It doesn't help that most of Apple's machines are single drive models - and have and increased need for expandable fast storage over comparable MS-running desktops.

Does Intel really have the timetable to put this on Macs by Q2 2011?

 

[euphuistical]

If technology has to be managed like you think, than we could have kept the PS/2. Let's not progress, ever.

I use PS/2 for my keyboard (Filco Majestictouch with cherry MX brown switches). USB2 doesn't give you NKRO.

Of course if a PC does have USB3 why getting the USB2? I do understand that.

I don't get what you're saying. There is no mobo controller for USB3 at the moment so my mobo has the two USB3 slots on the back along with several USB2 (cost and controller thing) Plus my mouse and headphones don't need USB3, though I could maybe see mice and keyboards making use of USB3, but probably only the gaudy and gimmicky gamer labled ones. I definitely think audio may get a nice boost (I just have boring onboard sound, so I am using the UUSB (built in sound card thng that goes plugs in to USB2 on the computer and the audio in/out of the headset on my Seinheisser PC350s.

Luckily though my case has 2 USB3 ports on the front so I will never have to reach back there to plug in a temporary device like an external HDD. It also has esata if I had to use that for some reason instead of USB 3.

It was really trippy going back to PCs and this was also the first one I build myself. I have options, I got exactly what I want and I can do exactly what I want with it so it does what I want how I want. Not how some ******* wit the last name Jobs wants me to do it.


But what about audio and USB3 and possibly LP? Would it allow us to have audio cards / speakers / headsets just have a single USB3 port or a LP port if LP is ever relevant (I think it will be if all this massive hype is close to real, but I definitely see USB3 also potentially having a place along side it, but if it surpasses it thats cool I guess).

But you guys doubting USB3 are really underestimating the full backwards compatibility. I know I sure don't want to have to use lame dongles or buy AND buy a new expansion card for everything, and I don't want to have to rebuy every non LP periferal I have, and I know 99% of other people don't want to. So expect LP to integrate in stages. Its not going to turn 2011-2013 and all of a sudden everything is all LP all the time. That is a pure fantasy. Especially by then we will be talking about the neext big thing and how it will replace SATA 3.0, USB3, SATA, Ethernet, and wifi and power cords.

 

[euphuistical]

LP in fact has USB-style port, proven in the picture. End of story.

So the fact that the outside looks like a USB style port means it will be backwards compatible with USB3 and USB2? It makes it possible/plausible/probable , it certainly doesn't make it end of story.

 

[firestarter]

So the fact that the outside looks like a USB style port means it will be backwards compatible with USB3 and USB2? It makes it possible/plausible/probable , it certainly doesn't make it end of story.

It is designed to be compatible with USB2.

You would likely need a dongle to support USB3.

 

[Fraaaa]

So the fact that the outside looks like a USB style port means it will be backwards compatible with USB3 and USB2? It makes it possible/plausible/probable , it certainly doesn't make it end of story.

Yes. And I'll see you at the next generation of MacBooks.

 

[RobQuads]

Article Link: Steve Jobs: USB 3 Not Taking Off At This Time

lol... and a couple days later Intel release thier new mobile chips will support USB3

 

[KnightWRX]

LP in fact has USB-style port, proven in the picture. End of story.

And you're basing all this theory of USB-style port that connects with USB devices off 1 picture ?

LightPeak is not a USB style port. It's an optical interconnect, USB is electrical. Heck, one just needs to show the inside of the port to prove how wrong you are :

As for "every device will be LightPeak enabled", again, this misses the fact that I'd need to replace everyone of my existing devices or get adapters for them. Not feasible.

It is designed to be compatible with USB2.

You believed Fraaaaa, the least credible person in this thread up to now, on his word alone when it can be proven wrong so easily ? You deserve one too

 

[euphuistical]

Yes. And I'll see you at the next generation of MacBooks.

If LP is on the next gen of macbooks or MBPs (and for the love of god get rid of the normal macbook, it just such a disgrace all around it needs the axe), the only thing I can say is that I am glad I plan to keep the laptop for a good 3-5 years because thats how long I am guessing

 

[KnightWRX]

If LP is on the next gen of macbooks or MBPs (and for the love of god get rid of the normal macbook, it just such a disgrace all around it needs the axe), the only thing I can say is that I am glad I plan to keep the laptop for a good 3-5 years because thats how long I am guessing

Apple loves them dongles. 30$ a pop, 1 for displayport, 1 for DVI, 1 for USB, 1 for Ethernet (let's hope a 10/100/1000 this time), 1 for FW, 1 for HDMI, 1 for...

That's a lot of 30$ to get working connectivity to your existing peripherals... that or Apple will add a lightpeak port along with all the other existing connections (USB, Ethernet, Displayport) to ease the transition.

That or LightPeak will get a niche somewhere and DisplayPort/Ethernet/USB3 will be the next generation.

 

[firestarter]

Link

Of more direct interest, though, was the practical side of things. After the rather overwhelming tour of the labs, I was finally allowed to play with Light Peak myself – probably, in fact, on the very same laptop that Barry had already seen in Brussels. As he noted at the time, prototype Light Peak hardware runs over a hybrid USB 3 connector, with an optical interface embedded alongside the electrical one:

Mr Paniccia stated several times that this hasn’t been confirmed as the final connector for Light Peak; but it’s clearly an ingenious marriage, combining the new technology with legacy USB compatibility, plus an electrical connection that can be used for power (which, of course, can’t be carried over a pure optical link). I would guess Intel is being cautious not because it reckons it can do better, but simply because it hasn’t yet secured approval from the USB standards body for this rather radical upgrade to the standard connectors.

 

[res1233]

Let's make this clear once and for all :

http://www.everythingusb.com/superspeed-usb.html#5



Ok, again :



Just to make sure everyone is clear on this :



Capiche ?

I hope no new posters come with the stupid notion of somekind of different connector...

Listen smarty, it's the B connector that's different, not the A connector. The A connector is the same rectangular shape, but the B connector has an extra hump on it. So you're only half right.

 

[res1233]

I just had a funny thought... Remember that photo of the MBA's internals prior to release, and how it says that the port on the other side of the mac was "Not USB"? I wonder if it ISN'T USB... If LightPeak was designed with USB 2.0 compatibility in mind, then what if it is actually LightPeak, but apple chose to release it as USB 2.0 for now. I'm not sure where you people are getting a 2012 release date from, but Intel said themselves that they expect it to be released by the end of this year. What if they did? Perhaps Apple is giving hardware manufacturers a chance to make LightPeak compatible devices before announcing the fact that it's actually LightPeak. Your thoughts.

 

[christene20]

USB 3.0 is easily better and should be applied solely on that basis. A USB 3.0 dock is furthermore rearwards matching, so the entire "will my vintage stuff work" is irrelevant.

 

[KnightWRX]

Listen smarty, it's the B connector that's different, not the A connector. The A connector is the same rectangular shape, but the B connector has an extra hump on it. So you're only half right.

Listen smarty, when is the last time you saw a B connector on a PC ? My post, in its context, was to point out to people screaming about "the ugly connector!" not being able to replace the USB connector on their MacBooks due to the extra thickness.

Context smarty, context. It prevents you from making responses that while on the surface appear insightful are actually quite the contrary.

 

[AidenShaw]

However, you misused the word backward compatibility.

I do prefer having a dongle and having one port type only that multiple ports that I might not even use.

To me, having to buy and carry around an extra-cost dongle for each port is a PITA (and pain in the wallet).

Just because there's multi-protocols on the fibre, does not mean that you can just plug into Light Peak. (You can run Ethernet protocols over USB, but you can't plug your Cat6 cable into an Ethernet jack - you need to buy a $29 dongle.)

When Intel introduced Light Peak, they said that Light Peak will be good for "extreme computer I/O performance" for "laptops, HD displays, cameras, video players, iPods*, docking stations and solid-state drives". You don't see keyboards, 3G dongles, mice, printers, etc in that list. (And Ipod seems strange, since an Ipod doesn't even use full USB 2.0 bandwidth.)

You'll see both USB 3.0 and Light Peak on systems, and probably only see direct Light Peak connections on high bandwidth devices.

I do like the idea of a Light Peak docking station for a laptop. One simple connection to the laptop, and a box with USB, HDMI, DisplayPort, eSATA and other connections to your devices. Or a Light Peak hub with 10 eSATA ports would be a great device for people with large or high bandwidth storage needs.

Don't think that we're knocking Light Peak - we're not. It's just not going to replace USB overnight, and USB 3.0 is replacing USB 2.0. The minimum will be USB+LightPeak - and even so I'll bet that most laptops will also have {one.or.more.of: VGA/HDMI/DVI/DisplayPort} and RJ45 Ethernet.

I'd rather have more ports on my devices, and fewer dongles and hubs.


ps: Please use multi-quote to reply to multiple posts.

 

[lilo777]

Good news

According to Digitimes:

Intel recently notified its partner about its latest platform Chief River that adopts 22nm Ivy Bridge processors with native support of USB 3.0, according to sources from motherboard makers.

As Intel is set to release its Huron River platform at CES 2011 along with notebook brands showcasing their related models, the company is also in preparing the new Chief River platform aiming for mass production in September 2011 and a public announcement in January 2012.

So, it means that we should get USB 3.0 on Macs by 2012.

In other news:

ASUS will be debuting a full range of boards when Intel's Sandy Bridge CPUs launch in January 2011. At the top of the stack will be the Republic Of Games (ROG) Maximus IV Extreme, designed for the most hardcore of overclockers. With this board, the manufacturer has tried to cut away all the unnecessary components, and that means that legacy ports - including PCI and FireWire - have been removed. Even USB 2.0 ports have been taken off, leaving nothing but ten super-speedy USB 3.0 ports in their stead.

Clearly USB 3.0 is not taking off at all (in Apple distortion field).

 

[pr5owner]

It is just apple that does not want to be on the USB 3.0 bandwagon. There maybe some technical reasons behind, who knows?

If it takes off then SJ is wrong in his assumption. There are a limited number of mobos that have USB 3.0 already. Everyone have the liberty to buy what he wants and can't push what he wanted to anybody's throat.
.

there are 62 Motherboards that use AMD Cpus and have USB 3 and 75 Intel

how do you figure thats a "limited" number? keep in mind this is ONE store carrying 100+ different models of motherboards all having USB3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...&srchInDesc=motherboard&name=AMD Motherboards

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...rchInDesc=motherboard&name=Intel Motherboards

The killing of the optical drive starts with the Mac App Store.

uhh? so people couldn't download content before? and do you really expect people to wait over night for 7-9GB of data to download when a DVD program takes max 20 mins to install? games for 1 are that big, adobe master suit is a couple dvds, etc, etc

I have to agree with you. Personally, I don't miss USB 3 at all. I'm totaly satisfied with FW800. It may be slower, but I had terrible experiences with USB 2 using up too much CPU on my MBP and lagging during backups.

your free to live in the past if you wish however, usb 2 doesnt really take up much cpu at all unless your running a pentium III or first gen P4.

what really chews the cpu is gigabit ethernet, even with checksums all off-loaded to the nic my cpu is still running at 12-18% copying at 90MB/s

Light Peak is the way to go. Hopefully it will allow Target Disk Mode (as now possible with FireWire on Mac).

not exactly, fiber cables are extremly delicate when compared to just regular copper cable usb. you cant bend fiber cables more than 60 degrees per foot or you will compromise the attenuation, with usb ive folded them a hard 180 degrees and they work like brand new.

USB3 should be dead... were is lightpeak already?

thats like saying bluray is dead lol oh FYI streaming some crappy 1mBit/s bitrate video from itunes isnt the same as playing a 50mbit/s BD

 

[mdelvecchio]

SO, in typical fashion Apple remains behind the curse in certain technologies

typical? you mean like how apple introduced the 3.5 floppy to consumers? or removed it later in favor of optical- & usb-storage? or devising firewire?

 

[pr5owner]

looks like you all have to wait until 2012 (i think someone else said that in the thread)

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/03/intel-chief-river-laptop-platform-to-support-usb-3-0-arrive-in/

 

[res1233]

Listen smarty, when is the last time you saw a B connector on a PC ? My post, in its context, was to point out to people screaming about "the ugly connector!" not being able to replace the USB connector on their MacBooks due to the extra thickness.

Context smarty, context. It prevents you from making responses that while on the surface appear insightful are actually quite the contrary.

You pretty much do nothing but flame and insult people on this forum. What's your problem dude? You may not be intending to come off as a jerk, but that's how it is.

 

[Bubba Satori]

Do you need an USB 3.0 for that?

So because LP is too good is not going to take off?
And you can plug USBs to it as you would do it on a normal USB port, no dongle for that.

Are we over with this? Please?

Ah, the ubiquitous "you don't need that" apologetic. Magic.