Steve Jobs Weighs in on iPad International Pricing and Taxes

[TallManNY]

I like these emails. I can't believe that people in the UK do not know about the VAT and factor that in to their calculations before complaining. I mean your government is basically funded by VAT. You pay it every day on everything you buy, and yet you don't know about it? That is incredibly ignorant. And Jobs is right to be pissed off that people still make these complaints. Heck we read it in these forums all the time. Sounds like you all are getting a good enough price on your apple products. And 18% of that cost is going to be handed over to government, so you get that back in social services, eventually. Or at least that is the theory.

 

[Anuba]

Thank you! That's what bothers me about some of the Apple haters that are defending the person that received the email from Jobs. We have no idea what was said on the letter that was written to him

Sure we do. Here it is:

I found it by googling for "Steve Jobs" + "educate yourself"... 36,000 hits.

 

[thespazz]

Sure we do. Here it is:

[imgs]http://thetechbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/educateyourselfipad.png[/img]

I found it by googling for "Steve Jobs" + "educate yourself"... 36,000 hits.

Ridiculous.

 

[twoodcc]

i guess i'm glad i live in america. it's too bad that those in other countries have to pay more

 

[Anuba]

I like these emails. I can't believe that people in the UK do not know about the VAT and factor that in to their calculations before complaining. I mean your government is basically funded by VAT. You pay it every day on everything you buy, and yet you don't know about it?

Again: Of course they know about VAT, everyone does.

The thing that most people don't know is that US prices are listed without VAT/sales tax. Since this is illegal in most countries, is it really that hard to imagine why they wouldn't automatically assume that the US does the polar opposite of everyone else?

The thing they needed to "educate themselves" on wasn't their own system, it was the American system.

 

[rolphi]

But I admit that this is something that all of the so-called "leading nations" nowadays have in common with the United States. It usually marks the the coming of a monumental breakdown and the need for a change in the system and a shifting of powers.

As you are from Germany, should we alert Poland and France that the Germans are thinking about re-drawing maps again?

 

[zMudvayne]

Actually it's only like a 26 dollar premium I paid 524 for my 16 gb iPad that's with tax.

I know this comment was posted several pages ago, but it demonstrates the average consumers' confusion and stupidity with international sales and tax rates that leads to justifying Jobs short response "Please educate yourself." REALLY, you should educate yourself in common knowledge before you a) email a notoriously "short" CEO or b) post incorrect information on MacRumors. It is not Jobs' responsibility to inform every consumer how pricing varies on an international scale and consumers should not look to other countries pricing unless they know how to account for the differences. Rarely is there an "unjustified" premium that doesn't correspond to some additional expense on the part of the corporation.

Amnak, the premium remains $40 (due to the cost of doing business, import fees, etc). MacRumors compared the NON-tax American Price ($499) to the exchanged, NON-tax European price ($539). Do not compare your AFTER-tax cost to their BEFORE-tax price to account for the difference.

 

[Liam8]

The noted prices for Canada are more expensive too, even though the dollar is pretty much at par. http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/05/07/tech-apple-ipad-canada.html

Yeah this bugs me!

 

[aristokrat]

Sure we do. Here it is:

I found it by googling for "Steve Jobs" + "educate yourself"... 36,000 hits.

Maybe the "educate yourself" part was in response to his English. For someone who supposedly lives in an English-speaking country (based on his complaining about UK prices), his syntax, etc. is quite bad. Maybe he's a native Welsh speaker?

 

[Anuba]

It is not Jobs' responsibility to inform every consumer how pricing varies on an international scale and consumers should not look to other countries pricing unless they know how to account for the differences.

True, but Apple + the internet age has created a rather new and unique situation where people are exposed to the US pricing in ways beyond the normal, for the reason that Apple's product launches are largely based around the Keynotes (where Steve talks about everything in dollars, dollars and more dollars), which Apple puts up on their local sites all around the world. The Keynotes have become global events. The only 'global event' releases people are accustomed to following involve Hollywood movies.

I can't really think of any other company with more 'bleeding' between the US and international information flow. I have no idea how much this or that Nokia phone, Volkswagen car, Dell computer, Microsoft product or even a pint of milk costs in the US, not only because I don't care but because none of the manufacturers make an effort to get that information through to me. People just aren't that used to advertising with USD pricetags attached to it. It's not like people in Europe sit around all day doing USD vs. EUR/GBP conversions, it's largely an Apple-related thing.

Maybe the "educate yourself" part was in response to his English. For someone who supposedly lives in an English-speaking country (based on his complaining about UK prices), his syntax, etc. is quite bad. Maybe he's a native Welsh speaker?

Mr. Manan Asif is probably an Asian immigrant, it's a Pakistani name if I'm not mistaken.

 

[jimbobb24]

Why do so many people take Steve's answers as rude or terse?
It's typed text. It has no emotion. It has no inflection. It has no underlying sarcasm.

Literature must be very dull for you.

 

[Ibjr]

There's nothing new about the VAT...

Just wait until we get a VAT here, the most regressive tax on the planet!

Please don't make such overtly political--and incorrect--statements in a computer forum. You either are abusing hyperbole (most people don't understand VAT and won't get it) or do not understand know anything about truly regressive taxes.

 

[HLdan]

Sure we do. Here it is:

I found it by googling for "Steve Jobs" + "educate yourself"... 36,000 hits.

Just a I suspected. That email to Jobs was 10 times more rude. "It's like leeching blood out of our bodies"? That's a stupid thing to say and honestly it doesn't deserve any response.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I'm sure they can, it's just that they don't realize that the US prices are listed without sales tax. It's not difficult to imagine why they wouldn't think of this, since listing prices excluding sales tax/VAT is not customary (and in many cases, flat out illegal) in their part of the world.

:
Nooo, Apple's prices are as high as they ever were, the exchange rate surplus is being sucked down Steve's greedy little throat like deep-fried Oreo's into a binge-eating whale woman.

Apple's prices are high here in the US, too. But, if you feel that Apple is profiteering, why not buy a few shares of Apple stock instead of buying Apple products? Nobody is making anybody buy Apple products...

Another thing about taxes that seems to elude some folks in Europe is that when it comes to taxes, our States are like EU States (=countries). Every US State has a different balance of sales, property, and income taxes. A couple of states have 0% sales tax, while others are ~10%. But, that 10% is usually the sum of city, county, and state sales taxes, and may differ from county to county. Some states have high property taxes, some don't. Some have income taxes, some don't. Sales taxes are seen as a state prerogative, and any attempts to impose a national sales tax in the US will be extremely unpopular with politicians in every state.

One thing that has always surprised me about the VAT in Europe, though, is why egalitarian Europe would embrace a high rate on the most regressive form of taxation. Oh well, I guess this should be in some other forum ...

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

I can't really think of any other company with more 'bleeding' between the US and international information flow. I have no idea how much this or that Nokia phone, Volkswagen car, Dell computer, Microsoft product or even a pint of milk costs in the US, not only because I don't care but because none of the manufacturers make an effort to get that information through to me. People just aren't that used to advertising with USD pricetags attached to it. It's not like people in Europe sit around all day doing USD vs. EUR/GBP conversions, it's largely an Apple-related thing.

Good point.

 

[3282868]

Wow. Seems to be a lot of "heat" in this discussion. This same topic arose a few months ago in a front page discussion on the possibility of new Cinema Displays. Many from foreign countries stated that Apple displays are over priced, and when a few stated that it was the VAT and such that increased the price points and not Apple, those from other countries denied it. Well, seems even Steve Jobs has correctly confirmed, it's not Apple, but the import/VAT/etc. taxes that are added BEFORE sale to Apple's prices, and not Apple over-pricing their products overseas. Complaints should be directed to individuals' respective governments, and not at Apple (although I would imagine some might argue Apple should LOWER their product prices so that the VAT will even it out LOL). Oi.

 

[Anuba]

Just a I suspected. That email to Jobs was 10 times more rude. "It's like leeching blood out of our bodies"? That's a stupid thing to say and honestly it doesn't deserve any response.

Meh, I didn't find it that rude. I'll give you twice as rude as Steve's response, but certainly not 10 times. I can think of 1,000 more rude things to say right now.

I don't know if you've ever been on the receiving end of a corporate email address, but 6 out of 10 people write extremely rude emails. The company I worked for at the time certainly had done nothing to deserve it, they were an honest company with top notch products, excellent support and and overall solid reputation. But people are rude anyway. I don't know if it's a sign of the times, but it seems as though a lot of people have "I am being screwed" as a sort of starting point for all interaction with their surroundings, it's as if they wake up and go to sleep in a chronic state of perceived notion of being screwed by everyone, and start every conversation by dumping some sort of burden of proof on others who then have to prove somehow that the person is not being screwed. And not to start WWIII or anything, but I found this to be particularly common among American customers, who nearly always sport that kind of "You're screwing me, if not, prove it" attitude in their (often shockingly rude) communication with sales people. I'm not sure if they're more used to being screwed on a regular basis or if it's just some sort of paranoia epidemic that hasn't reached overseas yet.

 

[3282868]

I'm sure they can, it's just that they don't realize that the US prices are listed without sales tax. It's not difficult to imagine why they wouldn't think of this, since listing prices excluding sales tax/VAT is not customary (and in many cases, flat out illegal) in their part of the world.

As someone else correctly stated, sales tax varies not just by state but by county. For example, in upstate NY, Monroe County (within the Finger Lakes/Rochester, NY area) has a different sales tax than Ontario County. Most sales tax in the U.S. ranges from 0%-10%. It's 8% in Monroe County but 7.5% for Ontario County which is right next door. The Apple Store in Victor, N.Y. is located in a Mall 10 miles from my home in Ontario County. As I have a home in Pittsford, NY (Monroe County), I pay 7.5% tax on Apple products (Ontario County). There is no double digit VAT or such government tax in the U.S. as there is in the U.K. or E.U., and the sales tax isn't included in the listed price of products as it varies by state and county. However, our taxes in the U.S. aren't nearly as high as the taxes in other countries, so blaming Apple for the cost in their prices based on your countries VAT is ridiculous (and the snide tone from the sender of the email to Steve Jobs does need to be educated as do a few "frequenters" of MacRumors from Sweden regarding pricing and taxes).

 

[NSK123]

Ohh please why don't you educate yourself. I don't agree on everything SteveJobs says but i gotta give him credit for flipping off people who ask stupid questions.

This isn't just a UK issue, it's the same ALL OVER EUROPE.. When I was living in Denmark everything was taxed by 25% which means that the iPad will cost a minimum of $650 there.. and that doesn't include various ecotaxes which might be added. The price difference is big on small products like the iPad and straight out outrageous on more expensive products like MacBooks... Not to mention cars and motorcycles with different sales tax rates of over 210%.. Which means that a $40K Family Car with taxes paid would cost you more than a new Ferrari does back in the states.... U.K Citizens are taxed alot but those taxes are nothing compared to the taxes imposed on the people living in more hardcore socialist countries.

So I just have say.. QUIT YOUR WHINING and SIT DOWN U.K PEOPLE.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Wow. Seems to be a lot of "heat" in this discussion. This same topic arose a few months ago in a front page discussion on the possibility of new Cinema Displays.
:

(although I would imagine some might argue Apple should LOWER their product prices so that the VAT will even it out LOL). Oi.

One more comment about Apple's prices. When the iPod first came out, it had an amazing price for what it did. What else was in the market? When the (white) Macbook came out, it had a very competitive price for what it did, compared to what else was out there. With the iPad, again, what are you going to compare it to-- right now? I think the problem people have with Apple is that as time goes on, people's appetites get bigger, while Apple product prices don't decline as much as the mass-produced competition. You can now buy a Macbook competitor for significantly less than the Macbook -- if you don't mind going back to Windows. But, if you're hooked, you're hooked.

 

[Anuba]

As someone else correctly stated, sales tax varies not just by state but by county. For example, in upstate NY, Monroe County (within the Finger Lakes/Rochester, NY area) has a different sales tax than Ontario County. Most sales tax in the U.S. ranges from 0%-10%.

Yes, yes, I know that the US sales tax system is a can of worms and that it's impractical if not impossible to list prices including tax. But I know this because I'm interested in US politics, while most people overseas would consider it sleep- and nausea-inducing trivia. As far as "education" pertaining to the US goes, it's mostly about 1776, the declaration of inde-something-or-other, the emancipation proclawhatchamacallit, cowboys, indians, Al Capone, Pearl Harbor, D-Day, Hiroshima, Rosa Parks, Lee Harvey Oswald, Vietnam and hippies. No European teacher is going to sit you down and go "Today, we're going to talk about the complicated American sales taxation system. We'll go through the states in alphabetical order. Now, in Alabama..."

 

[louis Fashion]

Average Bear.

i guess i'm glad i live in america. it's too bad that those in other countries have to pay more

Not for long, we will be paying higher taxes soon. Health care for all is expensive.

 

[3282868]

Yes, yes, I know that the US sales tax system is a can of worms and that it's impractical if not impossible to list prices including tax. But I know this because I'm interested in US politics, while most people overseas would consider it sleep- and nausea-inducing trivia. As far as "education" pertaining to the US goes, it's mostly about 1776, the declaration of inde-something-or-other, the emancipation proclawhatchamacallit, cowboys, indians, Al Capone, Pearl Harbor, D-Day, Hiroshima, Rosa Parks, Lee Harvey Oswald, Vietnam and hippies. No European teacher is going to sit you down and go "Today, we're going to talk about the complicated American sales taxation system. We'll go through the states in alphabetical order. Now, in Alabama..."

Then my question is why have you and others seemed to be quick to quip about Apple's price points when it's not Apple but your countries taxes that raise those prices? You are educated as you have demonstrated, others may not be aware of these facts, but I have read posts from you in the past in which you complain about Apple's prices, in the states and otherwise. Now you admit that it's not so much Apple but the country's VAT? Your post is an excuse, not an explanation.

 

[awmazz]

Maybe the "educate yourself" part was in response to his English. For someone who supposedly lives in an English-speaking country (based on his complaining about UK prices), his syntax, etc. is quite bad. Maybe he's a native Welsh speaker?

Fair enough Steve telling Mana Asif to educate him/herself instead of accusing the Apple sales dept of setting the price and leeching £'s etc.

It is little wonder that politicians can get away with so much blaming other people. See this person honestly believes it's Apple doing the leeching and keeping prices high and not the govt and politicians. Ditto that copyright levy in Germany on non-burner PCs. What the feck is that and where did it come from and how many Germans actually know about it, or just blame Apple for the extra % in the price instead?

 

[3282868]

Not for long, we will be paying higher taxes soon. Health care for all is expensive.

I wouldn't mind the higher tax for healthcare IF my health insurance premiums lowered enough to balance out (decreased monthly premiums + increased government tax = 0 ). However, that is unlikely as our politicians (Repub's and Dem's alike) refused to play fairly in the sandbox, and healthcare reform quickly became a no bid contract for the insurance companies to "insure" every American, much like Dick Cheney's Halliburton "received" no bid contracts for Iraq. Politics as usual, they all suck (us dry).