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Heres one for you 19 for me...

I wouldn't mind the higher tax for healthcare IF my health insurance premiums lowered enough to balance out (decreased monthly premiums + increased government tax = 0 ). However, that is unlikely as our politicians (Repub's and Dem's alike) refused to play fairly in the sandbox, and healthcare reform quickly became a no bid contract for the insurance companies to "insure" every American, much like Dick Cheney's Halliburton "received" no bid contracts for Iraq. Politics as usual, they all suck (us dry).

Oh so true. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we are screwed. VAT may come to the US as well. My tip for the day. Tax Free Bonds....
 
The noted prices for Canada are more expensive too, even though the dollar is pretty much at par. http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2010/05/07/tech-apple-ipad-canada.html
Yeah this bugs me!
Actually, it's not at par at the moment; the CDN dollar is about US $0.96. Also, you're both forgetting about the "We're all pirates here so let's just add $30 to the price of an electronic storage device" tax. And yes, since its income is reported in US$, Apple does hedge against currency fluctuations to protect its bottom line.
 
yup the german goverment is so stupid and in the pocket of the media industry that they add a extra fee on everything that could be used to view media content like TV.

it's like charging you 100 bucks a month and giving it to Nike, Adidas and Gucci because you have feet and could wear shoes. So you have to pay of file three separate forms in duplicate to get an exemption in case you have only one or no foot.


Meanwhile, users in Germany have discovered that their iPad prices are higher than in other European countries, even when accounting for tax differences. At least one reader also emailed Jobs about this issue and reported to fscklog that he noted a special copyright tax imposed by the government there.
Quote:
Blame your government. Germany just added a new copyright levy for computers.
The report notes that iPad prices in Germany are about 15 euros higher than those in France and Italy, with the extra copyright tax being applied due to the iPad's classification as a "PC without burner".
 
"Please educate yourselves"

Charming!

Anyway, point is, it is APPLE who sets the selling price, NOT the government through its tax regime. Having a global net price (selling price before tax) would be pretty darned unusual to say the least!

It is this fact that allowed people to exploit differences in taxation throughout the EU to buy cars cheaply in the UK. The net price in other EU countries was lower due to the higher tax because the manufacturers wanted a more uniform gross price. So UK owners paid the net price, then paid 15% VAT to the government and saved thousands of pounds. Apple could easily do this if they wanted to, but clearly they don't have to at the moment. They will presumably drop the price like they did with the iPhone if it doesn't work out.

So unless Apple is selling iPads at COST price in the US (i.e. making no profit) then Steve's argument is frankly nonsense.
 
Then my question is why have you and others seemed to be quick to quip about Apple's price points when it's not Apple but your countries taxes that raise those prices? You are educated as you have demonstrated, others may not be aware of these facts, but I have read posts from you in the past in which you complain about Apple's prices, in the states and otherwise.
Apples, oranges and pears.

1) It's true that myself and others have questioned Apple's pricing, mainly on the grounds that it's just mass-produced junk from Chinese sweatshops just like any Wal-Mart blow dryer, that the components inside are largely commodity PC components, and that the premium is therefore largely unjustified. If Audi manufactured their cars in China I would be questioning their premium pricing too, but their cars are hand made in Germany by ludicrously expensive labor so I can't really argue. People like to know what the premium is based on so they can feel that paying more was justified, and Apple's excuse appears to be little more than "just because".

2) I have never been unaware of the VAT issue, and I also don't pay VAT on Apple products since I run a firm and can buy computers etc. VAT free as long as they're used for work only (yeah, right ;)). Which is why I always click the "exkl. VAT" button in webshops to get the correct price for me.

3) VAT aside there are still considerable discrepancies between US and overseas pricing. I'm perfectly OK with that since I'm aware of the added costs, possible import duties etc. The only thing I've questioned with regards to the discrepancy is the fact that Apple's exchange-rate based price adjustments is a one way street, they're quick to jack up the price when the USD is doing well, but deaf blind and dumb when it's the other way around. This is inconsistent with the practices of many other US based hi-tech hardware manufacturers who employ a more dynamic and fair approach to rate fluctuations.

One thing that has always surprised me about the VAT in Europe, though, is why egalitarian Europe would embrace a high rate on the most regressive form of taxation.
You'd think so, but it's compensated by sharply progressive taxation on other fronts. Also, VAT (in Sweden anyway) is progressive; essentials like transportation and food have a lower VAT (6% and 12%, respectively), while the highest rate of 25% is reserved for "hardware" like electronics, cars, furniture etc. If the poor in Sweden are being hit hard, it certainly doesn't show in the statistics; Sweden retains the #1 spot on UN's Human Poverty Index, meaning that when you consider factors such as health, average life span, % of population below 50% of median income, long-term unemployment, average educational level, Sweden is ranked as the best place to live. Or rather, the place where the largest percentage of the population has a decent life. It's expensive to keep the entire population well educated, healthy and well fed, but there are benefits as well - the population is more adaptive to changes and resilient to changes in the economy. If you allow a large chunk of the population to become poor and poorly educated if not illiterate, they will have more health problems (expensive) and won't adjust to rapid changes in skills demand (=unemployment/welfare, also expensive) and generally passive and helpless. That's the kind of baggage you don't want when a recession hits.

yup the german goverment is so stupid and in the pocket of the media industry that they add a extra fee on everything that could be used to view media content like TV.
You know that's not really the reason they added this tax though. The governments are always on the lookout to add more taxes in general, but they have to think up semi-plausible excuses to do it. This is one such semi-plausible excuse. It's just general taxation with an arbitrary label on it. I'm sure they love the whole climate hysteria thing, that's a veritable goldmine. Fuel taxes, CO2 taxes, excessive breathing taxes...
 
"Please educate yourselves"

Charming!

Anyway, point is, it is APPLE who sets the selling price, NOT the government through its tax regime. Having a global net price (selling price before tax) would be pretty darned unusual to say the least!

It is this fact that allowed people to exploit differences in taxation throughout the EU to buy cars cheaply in the UK. The net price in other EU countries was lower due to the higher tax because the manufacturers wanted a more uniform gross price. So UK owners paid the net price, then paid 15% VAT to the government and saved thousands of pounds. Apple could easily do this if they wanted to, but clearly they don't have to at the moment. They will presumably drop the price like they did with the iPhone if it doesn't work out.

So unless Apple is selling iPads at COST price in the US (i.e. making no profit) then Steve's argument is frankly nonsense.

So you are saying that Apple should pay the tax that you are supposed to pay?
 
Is he really? How do you know it's not his secretaries?

Also, with those kinds of answers, maybe it's better if he did leave it to his secretaries, if it was really him.

People who can't handle a blunt response (ie whining babies) need to send their questions through the normal apple PR channels. If you've got the nerve to email the CEO of a huge company, then you get what you ask for.

I appreciate his terse responses, and people that are complaining about price differences between countries, really have no business emailing the CEO of a company anyway. He's right they need to educate themselves before wasting others time with their complaining.
 
"Please educate yourselves"

Charming!

Anyway, point is, it is APPLE who sets the selling price, NOT the government through its tax regime. Having a global net price (selling price before tax) would be pretty darned unusual to say the least!

It is this fact that allowed people to exploit differences in taxation throughout the EU to buy cars cheaply in the UK. The net price in other EU countries was lower due to the higher tax because the manufacturers wanted a more uniform gross price. So UK owners paid the net price, then paid 15% VAT to the government and saved thousands of pounds. Apple could easily do this if they wanted to, but clearly they don't have to at the moment. They will presumably drop the price like they did with the iPhone if it doesn't work out.

So unless Apple is selling iPads at COST price in the US (i.e. making no profit) then Steve's argument is frankly nonsense.

There is some subtle nonsense here that everywhere everything is equal.... let's compare salaries, benefits, cost of living... the reality is different countries are different markets. These markets are affected by a lot of variables including tax structures and government regulation. People that think the iPad or any other product should cost the same in any two countries really ignore all the other differences between markets. I'm with Steve on this one. Go educate yourselves. The world isn't the way you think it is.
 
Is naive/ignorance to expect the same pricing overseas.

Is not just a matter of taxes, there is more labor and shipping costs.

For example, I used to live in Venezuela. I could buy an Apple computer in the US but it cost me $500 to bring it to Venezuela + taxes.

In the US everything is regulated and calculated but imagine sending 10 thousand iPads to Germany or Europe? extra package, airlnes fees... do I have to explain that?
 
No, I think he's saying that other companies do it, so what's Apple's excuse?

Car manufacturers aren't in the same market segment as CE device manufacturers. People will travel a lot further to save the taxes on something that costs as much as a car than they will on an iPad. Apple could follow that practice, but there is no reason to expect them to, nor do they need and excuse when they don't.
 
since I run a firm and can buy computers etc.

3)The only thing I've questioned with regards to the discrepancy is the fact that Apple's exchange-rate based price adjustments is a one way street, they're quick to jack up the price when the USD is doing well, but deaf blind and dumb when it's the other way around. This is inconsistent with the practices of many other US based hi-tech hardware manufacturers who employ a more dynamic and fair approach to rate fluctuations.

Let's see how honest you are --- since you are running your own firm.

Are you reducing your prices as soon as your suppliers reduced their costs? Or do you pocket the difference?

99.9% of the businesses out there pocket the difference.
 
There is some subtle nonsense here that everywhere everything is equal.... let's compare salaries, benefits, cost of living... the reality is different countries are different markets. These markets are affected by a lot of variables including tax structures and government regulation. People that think the iPad or any other product should cost the same in any two countries really ignore all the other differences between markets. I'm with Steve on this one. Go educate yourselves. The world isn't the way you think it is.

Ah, now you're talking. It is how they choose to MARKET it that sets the price, which I believe is what I was saying? Manufacturers choose to market products at a set point presumably relative to the perceived value the market will support and with an eye to the perceived competition.

So in terms of "educating yourselves" Steve should have said, "We price it how we want to - go educate yourselves" rather than blaming tax. Wouldn't you agree?
 
I just got a mail from Apple and the japanese prices are already on the website. (As well as pre-order)

Wi-Fi Model:
48,800 yen
58,800 yen
68,800 yen

Wi-Fi + 3G Model
61,800 yen
71,800 yen
81,800 yen


3G Data Plan (Softbank Mobile)
A)4,410 yen (Cap: 30 days OR 1GB, whichever comes first)
B) 2-year contract @2,910/month

*Multiply by 0.01085 to get current value in USD (I'm too lazy)
*Japan has 5% VAT

EDIT: Cheapest model is 529+USD w/tax, 505+USD w/o tax as of NOW
 
I hate it when people forget VAT. It's pretty simple to work out the UK pricing from the US. Convert the $ to the £, then add 17.5%, then add the extra Apple charge for doing business in the UK, which Steve once said is 7% (although seems to be 8-9% these days!).

Yes, Apple products are more expensive in the UK. We'll just have to wait until Osborne/Darling/Cable sorts out the £, so we can get back to the point we can buy $2 with it. :)
 
Healthcare

I wouldn't mind the higher tax for healthcare IF my health insurance premiums lowered enough to balance out (decreased monthly premiums + increased government tax = 0 ). However, that is unlikely as our politicians (Repub's and Dem's alike) refused to play fairly in the sandbox, and healthcare reform quickly became a no bid contract for the insurance companies to "insure" every American, much like Dick Cheney's Halliburton "received" no bid contracts for Iraq. Politics as usual, they all suck (us dry).

I know this is off-topic, but if you have universal healthcare why would you pay ANY health insurance premiums? Here in the UK there is little difference in quality between public and private healthcare. The only difference is speed; hence why some businesses pay health insurance for their workers - to get them back to work quicker.
 
Again: Of course they know about VAT, everyone does.

The thing that most people don't know is that US prices are listed without VAT/sales tax. Since this is illegal in most countries, is it really that hard to imagine why they wouldn't automatically assume that the US does the polar opposite of everyone else?

The thing they needed to "educate themselves" on wasn't their own system, it was the American system.

But it has been nearly THREE years since Apple started selling the iphone --- and with all the newspaper coverage and internet coverage, it is inexcusable for journalists and Apply fans to not realize this fact.

And when Apple announces the 4th generation iphone in the next couple of months, these same people will conveniently forget that the European prices are inclusive of VAT and the American prices are not.

It's called fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. How many times have we talk about this VAT thing on the iphone --- 1st gen iphone, 3G iphone, 3GS iphone....
 
In the US everything is regulated and calculated but imagine sending 10 thousand iPads to Germany or Europe? extra package, airlnes fees... do I have to explain that?

Both the US-american and European iPads are coming from China, so where are the costs of additional package coming from?
 
Better than a platitude!

At least Steve did not resort to that ubiquitous customer service platitude "Sorry for any inconvenience caused" - so often heard, but so totally lacking any sincerity.

It seems the world has become very sensitive to anyone's comments. I personally think Steve is being succinct, not rude. Again, in a world of waffle it is refreshing to see someone getting to the point and lets face it, Simon Cowell makes a living out of it, so come on, move on.

VAT, import duties, cost of operations, local business tax, cost of living etc all impact of setting a price point in any country. Gasoline/Petrol is a great point case.
 
But it has been nearly THREE years since Apple started selling the iphone --- and with all the newspaper coverage and internet coverage, it is inexcusable for journalists and Apply fans to not realize this fact.

And when Apple announces the 4th generation iphone in the next couple of months, these same people will conveniently forget that the European prices are inclusive of VAT and the American prices are not.

It's called fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. How many times have we talk about this VAT thing on the iphone --- 1st gen iphone, 3G iphone, 3GS iphone....

But they aren't the iPad, are they? Besides, we love to debate about stuff we are passionate about (I think they've identified the gene that makes us do so).
 
Ah, now you're talking. It is how they choose to MARKET it that sets the price, which I believe is what I was saying? Manufacturers choose to market products at a set point presumably relative to the perceived value the market will support and with an eye to the perceived competition.

So in terms of "educating yourselves" Steve should have said, "We price it how we want to - go educate yourselves" rather than blaming tax. Wouldn't you agree?

I think you're missing the point. Yes, there is an extent to which capitalism allow people to price their goods at whatever price point they want to. Companies are out to make a profit which some socialists have trouble with. The iPad is not like milk/bread or even like gasoline. If you think the price is unreasonable for your market, don't buy it. If enough people make that decision, the price will come down.

But (and a very bit but), I don't know why you want to ignore the fact that the TAX is one of the big market variables affecting the price. What I take Steve to mean is that people who are upset need to examine the market conditions in their country, and look at the bigger picture of pricing differences and factors that influence them (many of which are because of government policies).
 
There was nothing rude at all about Steve Jobs' reply.

He received an extremely rude email from a barely literate and obviously unintelligent and ignorant person residing in the UK, who was rambling on about excessively high prices and accusing Apple of "leeching blood" in a poorly written email, showing an extreme lack of education, respect and knowledge.

If a person is too stupid and/or ignorant to even know how the tax/vat system in their particular country operates, then they probably have no business operating or owning any computer hardware at all. Just face it, there are countless stupid people on this planet and there is nothing rude at all about being blunt and to the point when it comes to replying to an ignorant question asked by a rude moron.

The Euro welfare system leads ignorant people to having a sense of entitlement, and unfortunately for these ignorant people, Apple's products will always cost slightly more in their heavily taxed and socialist societies. My advice to any whiny Europeans is to quit whining, and either suck it up, change your government or simply don't purchase any Apple products.

Apple has a huge customer base with enormous hype surrounding it's offerings in recent years. Along with the increased customer base, there will also be a greater percentage of ignorant customers. Macs aren't just for professionals and creative people anymore. If you think that the prices are too high in your neck of the woods for whatever reason, then don't buy it. That's how things work in a free society. If the slightly higher price for Apple products causes less ignorant people to purchase Macs, then I see that as a net positive! Personally, I suggest that the ignorant email writer who moaned about "leeching blood" purchase a netbook. It will be a perfect match for a person who will obviously never produce anything of significance or importance on their machine, besides surfing goat porn websites.
 
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