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Bit rude for a CEO. Not that I care, it's just normally they are all PR and horse ****.

Prices seem fair enough. Stuff costs more in the UK, the pound is shot to pieces, VAT is high, overheads cost more, fuel costs more, we pay a higher minimum wage. It would have been laughable to expect anything below £400 in the present climate.

This is correct. When you work it out, its only about £33 more than performing an exact conversion, and then adding the VAT. it would have been more last week but the Election result caused the Pound value to drop.

The 32GB WiFi iPad seems to offer best value at about £25 over the odds, the 64GB works out about £50 more, I haven't worked out the differences for the 3G iPads

If you add sales tax for say California on the price then the gap narrows a bit but its still higher because UK VAT is a lot higher.
 
If you are living in the UK then I consider not knowing that all UK prices advertised include 17.5% VAT and not knowing that all US prices advertised include no sales tax at all to be extremely stupid
Really? Without looking it up, list the VAT rates for an iPad in France, Germany, the Netherlands and Spain, and tell me what each of those country's local laws are on displayed prices. They're politically and geographically closer trading partners to the UK than the US.

Now, could you explain to me what you mean by "all UK prices advertised include 17.5% VAT"? Are you saying that all UK VAT rates are 17.5%, or even that the majority of average household expenditure is likely to be taxed 17.5% VAT? Becaue they're both false. Are you saying that firms are always required to advertise prices inclusive of VAT? Because that's also false. And you surely don't really mean that "/all/ US prices advertised include no sales tax"?

Or are you just talking about Apple's policies on price lists? In which case, are you arguing that people are stupid if they don't know Apple's global pricing advertising policies? Do you know Microsoft's? IBM's? Intel's?

Anyway, Jobs was wrong, and I suggest the receiver of the e-mail tell Jobs to "educate himself": the German tax he refers to does not apply to iPads, because they lack the configurability and (in most cases) storage space. What's more, the surcharge - far worse outside the UK - applies in countries without silly copyright taxes. Jobs is a liar: an elegant liar sometimes, and a rude liar other times, but he's still a liar.

Complaining to the CEO of one of the world's greatest companies and wasting his time because you are too stupid to educate yourself is stupid.
He's a human, you're a human, I'm a human. This is a line: ---------. None of us appear above or below that line. If he doesn't want to respond, that's his right, but he's an ass if he thinks he gets to treat you badly just because he makes the effort.

And I realised it was because I had acted like a stupid, uneducated, thoughtless dolt. That day I started changing my ways, and today I am a billionaire myself. Thanks to Steve Jobs.
Yeah, "how you can get rich now like me!!!" publications are not written to help you get rich; they're written to make the author rich off the gullible who are easily taken in by platitudes. No silly anecdote has made a millionaire.
 
FYI in spain we are screwed with taxes

When i bought anything I hace to pay 16% extra.( this summer the stupid goverment is raising that at 18%)

If I bought a car I need to pay 16 taxes + another 12% more in another tax!

If I bought ANYTHING that can play MP3, another tax for our RIIA(SGAE), same thing for hard disks, dvds, cds, etc.

When I go to the gas station about 80% of the price I pay is taxes!!! 1 liter of gas is about 1.30 euro this days... Thats about 7.44 per gallon!!!!!

And we don't have free health care for everything, dental care is not for example.

College is not free neither, about 1000 euro a year.

And you do not want me to talk about houses! A 90meters(295 feet)house in a flat can cost easily 300.000 euro \ 380.000 USD. And that is in a regular city, in Madrid, in a good zone can go up to ****
 
And you do not want me to talk about houses! A 90meters(295 feet)house in a flat can cost easily 300.000 euro \ 380.000 USD. And that is in a regular city, in Madrid, in a good zone can go up to ****

Supply/demand. All your parents in Spain took advantage of the socialist+EU lift out of poverty and bought two houses while there was a housing boom. There's not infinite land in Madrid.

Similarly, Apple can afford to keep prices high in the UK, say, because it's pitched itself for most of its range (computers, not really iPod) as a premium supplier for the copious volume of yuppies, while it's far more a brand for students (who have more cash than UK state-provided students, but aren't rolling in it) and any-old users in the US.
 
And if your talking about healthy as in "health care" every government run health care system on the planet is in shambles (unless your just in denial, and the private system in the USA needs plenty of work, Ill agree) and ready to collapse.

while I agree on the rest of your points, this is a bit of a nonsense. Scaremongering form the tabloids may infer the NHS of always on the brink of collapse, the reality is that it provides some pretty good if not great healthcare for the UK population.

Now as to the actual thread topic, I do think Jobs was a bit rude. BUT that's a pretty standard response from the guy. I do agree that due to EU local taxes always make the RRP a little higher, the iPad isn't marked up as high as other products over here.
 
Apple products, espcially Macs, aren't that popular in Germany anyways - so why bother - German Apple Fanboys will buy the iPad no matter what price it has.
Tell that to every media concern, advertising agency, and printing company here. As a consumer device, the iPhone is a major hit... as are the MBPs. Telekom is probably 85% MBPs. Checkout ZDF news... even they have one on the desk with the Apple logo covered up. There is no other laptop on the market like an MBP in shape and size... no need for the logo to see it's one... and they're popping up on TV all over the place.

Just FYI from someone who works and lives here.

Better get out more often.
 
Steve Jobs is quickly becoming a jerk. How about this -- if you are going to offer an antagonistic response to a customer's email, just don't email them...


Complaining to the CEO of one of the world's greatest companies and wasting his time because you are too stupid to educate yourself is stupid.

LOL. How are you wasting his time? He doesn't have to answer. Plus, it's his job, if he chooses to answer, to do it intelligently. I'm 99% sure that, day to day, I am busier than Steve Jobs is. And I wouldn't respond the way he did...


My guess is the email he got was less polite than his reply!

That does NOT matter. He could receive the rudest email ever composed and that would still make it a bad business decision to respond using the same tone. He has a duty to either not respond, or respond politely...
 
FYI in spain we are screwed with taxes

When i bought anything I hace to pay 16% extra.( this summer the stupid goverment is raising that at 18%)

If I bought a car I need to pay 16 taxes + another 12% more in another tax!

If I bought ANYTHING that can play MP3, another tax for our RIIA(SGAE), same thing for hard disks, dvds, cds, etc.

When I go to the gas station about 80% of the price I pay is taxes!!! 1 liter of gas is about 1.30 euro this days... Thats about 7.44 per gallon!!!!!

And we don't have free health care for everything, dental care is not for example.

College is not free neither, about 1000 euro a year.

And you do not want me to talk about houses! A 90meters(295 feet)house in a flat can cost easily 300.000 euro \ 380.000 USD. And that is in a regular city, in Madrid, in a good zone can go up to ****

Tuition at most public universities in the US is around $10,000/ann. At my alma mater, an expensive private university, it is over $50,000/ann if you include housing costs (which are prepaid) - I spend more per course for graduate school than you do per year. Homes of that size (90 m^2 = 968 sq
ft, not 295 sq ft) are around $600K in The larger cities here. Medical insurance here never pays for dental, that's separate.
 
In the UK, white collar professionals have to share 4 to a flat because 80% of income goes to taxes,fees,etc..
 
So why is the Time Capsule 2TB $499 in the states and £388 in the UK, when the iPad 16GB wifi is $499 in the states and £429 in the UK?

Time Capsule 2TB - $499 = £388

iPad 16GB wifi - $499 = £429

Because the Time Capsule you mention was introduced some time ago and Apple don't seem to vary prices until there is an update.
 
LOL. How are you wasting his time? He doesn't have to answer. Plus, it's his job, if he chooses to answer, to do it intelligently. I'm 99% sure that, day to day, I am busier than Steve Jobs is. And I wouldn't respond the way he did...

Instead of "educate yourself" I'd say "spend the time of thinking this through". I'd estimate value of a factual answer from Steve Jobs at $100, and the value of a factual + polite answer from Steve Jobs at $100 plus 2 cents. Spending only half a second on being polite would be very inefficient.

In your case, value of a factual answer = 2 cents, value of a factual + polite answer = 4 cents. You double the value of your answer by being polite. Therefore being impolite would be inefficient.

That does NOT matter. He could receive the rudest email ever composed and that would still make it a bad business decision to respond using the same tone. He has a duty to either not respond, or respond politely...

Wrong conclusion. Apple is better off if that rude emailer buys a Dell. There are plenty of people out there that you don't want as customers and that you don't want in your store. 80/20 rule: 20 percent of the customer produce 80 percent of your support cost.
 
So US indicated prices are net of tax. At what point in the transaction is the tax actually charged? At the point of checkout does the website lookup the tax rate for your location?

You got one answer, and it wasn't incorrect -- but it was incomplete.

Sales taxes in the US are astonishing, mind-bogglingly complex, and that's even without considering online purchases.

Some states have no sales taxes at all.

Among the states that do, some have uniform tax rates across the state, and some have tax rates that vary by county (or other political entity). Often the state declares a base rate, and then each taxing entity adds an amount to that. Where I live, the sales tax used to be smaller in the next county over, so people making large purchases would often go over there to buy things. Same for people who live in a state with tax but are close enough to a state without it so that they can cross over and buy there. This works for almost everything except items where the state gets involved in licensing and registration, such as cars.

Among the states that have sales tax, different items are taxed. Some tax clothing, some tax food, some tax only some kinds of food, some give time-limited tax holidays on certain items, some tax services and some don't and on and on and on. If you buy for a business you might not have to pay sales tax if the items are used in production, but if the items will be transferred to the client you do (I'll leave it to you to imagine the swamp that creating software as a consultant leads you into -- is it "tangible personal property?); if you're a not-for-profit then there will be different rules there, also.

Many states expect you to reveal out-of-state/online purchases to them, and after confessing, to pay the appropriate sales tax. Some people actually do this, but most don't.

So the tax-map in the US is an enormous patchwork of different rates and regulations.

As for internet purchases, it's also complex. States with sales tax will always insist on the tax when the vendor has a physical presence in the state. So were I to buy a Mac from the Apple website, Apple would charge me the appropriate sales tax for my state and county. Were I to buy it from another vendor, one who had no physical presence in my state, that vendor might or might not charge me that tax. This used to be the case for Amazon.com and New York state (where I live) but NYS passed a law requiring Amazon to collect tax, and although Amazon has filed some sort of protest, they have been complying. When I'm in another state and buy the identical item from Amazon, they don't charge me sales tax.

Sometimes people will buy online from a vendor within their state (and, online or not, that vendor should charge tax) but will have the item shipped to another state, thus avoiding the tax. Then they either go and pick it up, or have somebody ship it to them.

Complicated? Yes. And it's tricky even if you're the vendor (I was in business in NY State for a long time, and had to collect sales tax) -- for example, I had an onsite specialized data processing business, and although I might have done much of the work in one county and then finished up in the client's county, I had to collect and remit the tax appropriate for the client's county, even though the services were performed mostly in another.

Fun! Whatever VAT's flaws may be, at least it's easier. Isn't it?
 
Tuition at most public universities in the US is around $10,000/ann. At my alma mater, an expensive private university, it is over $50,000/ann if you include housing costs (which are prepaid) - I spend more per course for graduate school than you do per year. Homes of that size (90 m^2 = 968 sq
ft, not 295 sq ft) are around $600K in The larger cities here. Medical insurance here never pays for dental, that's separate.

Thats not 100% true, I don't know anyone parents with more than one house, but i know plenty of people that just bough for speculation, and I know plenty more of stupid that were fine paying double the price without thinking with a 30 years mortage dedicating 80% of the family income only to pay this mortage.

So, yes, this is a country of fools and ignorants, we are the north of Africa, not the south of Europe.

Ok, at the end we are all screwed by our politicians ;)

back to topic... i think the prices of the ipad here is Spain are Ok according to the USA prices
 
To all the fellow Europeans posting here:

It's NOT the high taxes that is bothersome... it is what is wasted... truly thrown down the toilet wasted... from the taxes that we have granted our respective governments.

It was recently calculated here in Germany that fully 1/3 of our taxes are being frivolously and inefficiently put to use...and we're piling up massive debt at the same time. Meaning the government is spending (speculatively) blowing upwards of 50% in wastefulness and interest on debt.

That's the crime. Million $ question/answer is: what's the solution, and what's the penalty?
 
To all the fellow Europeans posting here:

It's NOT the high taxes that is bothersome... it is what is wasted... truly thrown down the toilet wasted... from the taxes that we have granted our respective governments.

It was recently calculated here in Germany that fully 1/3 of our taxes are being frivolously and inefficiently put to use...and we're piling up massive debt at the same time. Meaning the government is spending (speculatively) blowing upwards of 50% in wastefulness and interest on debt.

That's the crime. Million $ question/answer is: what's the solution, and what's the penalty?

i think in Spain the taxes are wasted in 99% :(
 
Sometimes a little rudeness goes a long way.

is it me, or is Steve just getting more rude every time??

he doesn't have to attack!! people are just asking questions...

his PR team should talk to him... or spank him hahaha

Frankly he is doing the right thing. One thing that I have found with Europeans is that they don't want to admit to the costs of their welfare society and out of control governments. The new German copyright tax is a prime example of a government more interested in special interest groups than the population at large.


Dave
 
is it me, or is Steve just getting more rude every time??

he doesn't have to attack!! people are just asking questions...

his PR team should talk to him... or spank him hahaha

I don't think he should be answering individual questions like that. There has to be a balance between isolation and access.

Agreed, but unfortunately the world has gone towards unfriendliness and rudeness lately, especially companies must I say. Is there an equivalent in English for "Client est Roi" ? It literally means the client is king.

The "customer is always right" is the closest equivalent, but it's not common anymore. To an extent, I think it became an entitlement on the part of the customer to be rude, because the customer sometimes is wrong. There are a lot of "interesting" stories I've heard from people that do customer service or retail work.

Europeans complain a lot about high prices, they should really complain about high VATs, 17% doesn't sound right at all... it's a rip off. Anything above 8% should not be tolerated, you're paying the company (i.e. Apple) for the product, not the government or the EU.

It's just how the countries have decided to collect taxes. They have much larger social programs than most other countries.

I'd like to see the actual emails from both parties. It seems that civility is lost when talking about anything with an "i" or the word Flash in front of it.

I think there generally has been a lack of civility, one that only watches Apple might not notice it elsewhere now or in the past.

Assuming that tis email is authentic (seeing is believing)

Seeing what? The originally received bits? Emails can be 100% forged, I don't think it could be authenticated short of going to Apple PR, who knows if they would answer. Most email doesn't have an authentication system applied to it.

As said it portrays the person he was talking to as uneducated, inferior. It belittles them. It also portrays Jobs as arrogant, uncaring.

That, and a basic expectation that someone do more research than just doing a math operation before complaining would help too. This information isn't a secret, I found answers in a minute with a simple Google search. But instead of taking a minute to look it up, they'll complain in an email to one of the busiest men in the world. Please explain where this makes sense.

Don't worry rest of the world, old president obummer has already said vat is coming to the USA, so we'll be with you price wise soon.

Source? I think you're listening to a source that is trying to scare you. A lot of Obama's opponents are shrieking pretty loudly these days, and largely using misinformation and hyperbole to scare people.

Edit: I found a video that said it's under consideration, and not even that seriously yet, as of April 21. Under consideration isn't the same as "it's coming". The above comment stands, because misinformation confuses the two.
 
To all the fellow Europeans posting here:

It's NOT the high taxes that is bothersome... it is what is wasted... truly thrown down the toilet wasted... from the taxes that we have granted our respective governments.

It was recently calculated here in Germany that fully 1/3 of our taxes are being frivolously and inefficiently put to use...and we're piling up massive debt at the same time. Meaning the government is spending (speculatively) blowing upwards of 50% in wastefulness and interest on debt.

That's the crime. Million $ question/answer is: what's the solution, and what's the penalty?
It's called democracy. you can change your government and the way it spends it's revenue
 
Actually it is a very polite way to respond.

Whilst I like how direct Jobs is, replying with the words "Please educate yourself" is just rude and offensive to a potential customer.
Not really, rude would be saying something like: why are you bothering me with this horse *****. Clearly he is trying to say to the customer to go complain to the right person.
Yes, most of us know that taxes are to blame for the price difference, but if Jobs thought that this was common knowledge then not replying at all would have been the better option :rolleyes:

The worst thing a company can do is become detached from it's customer base. However open communications means that any idiot can join in. Sometimes the only legal way to get the message to sink in is to be rude. It is bad enough that Europe discriminates against American companies but then we have the people in Europe complaining about the price of American goods. You can't have economic equality without a legal framework to support it.
 
Instead of "educate yourself" I'd say "spend the time of thinking this through". I'd estimate value of a factual answer from Steve Jobs at $100, and the value of a factual + polite answer from Steve Jobs at $100 plus 2 cents. Spending only half a second on being polite would be very inefficient.

In your case, value of a factual answer = 2 cents, value of a factual + polite answer = 4 cents. You double the value of your answer by being polite. Therefore being impolite would be inefficient.



Wrong conclusion. Apple is better off if that rude emailer buys a Dell. There are plenty of people out there that you don't want as customers and that you don't want in your store. 80/20 rule: 20 percent of the customer produce 80 percent of your support cost.

OK. First, you have no idea how much any of my answers cost. But I can tell you this, it ain't cheap... I'd like it to be cheap, but that's irrelevant..

And, you clearly don't have much experience managing much of anything. That or, if you did a better job, you would be more successful than you are now (no matter how successful you may be now). Why do you assume that by answering rudely Jobs is adding anything? Maybe it is having an overall net-negative effect. Are you just pulling those valuation numbers out of the air. They don't seem to be grounded in reality?

And on what basis do you say that Apple is better off with "rude emailers" buying a Dell? LOL. Rude emailers? If someone sends a rude email they are not worth having as a customer? On what do you base that? Apple is always better off with an extra customer. Are you assuming that, because someone is a rude emailer that they will buy and Apple, complain, and have a net-negative effect on the company? Or is there something else? Or is it just not a well thought out post?

This post would have cost you a minimum of $130....
 
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