Stolen MacBook Pro Schematics Confirm Apple's Plans to Add More Ports and Remove Touch Bar

[tubular]

I feel so sorry for those who bought that computer, I remember how they were defending it being the future. and being future safe, USB-A STILL more ubiqtious. I remember how Tim Cook was using the reality distortion field to make it seem that the touchbar is the next big revolution in laptops.

There were bad choices, but above all one disastrous one, the butterfly keyboard, which all by itself changed the economy of laptop ownership by sapping the resale value. Nobody wants to buy a used time bomb just because the bomb didn't go off for the previous owner.

 

[I7guy]

[...]

I'm not sure if you sensed my irony or not. I don't need it to be proven to me that the majority of computer buyers put function first over how a computer looks. I know it to be true. You should too if you're being impartial. If a windows-based computer maker came out with the "world's most beautiful PC laptop," do you think the average macrumors member (whom I'm assuming prefer the Apple OS X ecosystem) is going to switch over just for looks? My place of employment is 100% PC laptops that can hardly be called pretty, and I'd be willing to bet a majority of folk would say they're less attractive than the average Apple computer. Did my company decide to buy prettier MacBooks over PC's? No. I bought an MI Mac mini last December even though the MacBook to me is arguably a much more attractive piece of hardware. Did I buy the MacBook based on looks? Noper. Function first.

If I'm being impartial, I think most people balance the form and function. As an example, why buy a great looking (to the individual) and expensive flat screen TV with a sub-par picture? At least in my circle I don't know anyone who would do such a thing.

If you are referring to some windows based laptops, that aren't taking center stage in anyones' household and that is meant to be put away after using, I would posit why does it even matter? I would buy a decent specced ugly looking pc that performs to my specs, nice keyboard, nice display in a heartbeat, because it's only out while I'm using it.

I was (trying to) make a funny by referring to (my opinion that) the teams led by Jony appeared to very highly prioritize some risky aesthetic decisions over the past 5 years that all are now being undone. And why might they be being undone...something to ponder.

I would say the same about any Mac, although Apple is a part design company, nothing they produce is "ugly". Styles change over the course of a short few years in the life of a consumer product. The best example of a polarizing form is the BMW Chris Bangle era. All of his design changes were streamlined after moving from the position of head designer. And to my thinking and so it goes.

The design elements of IOS 7 have lasted a long time although, as apple should, they are tweaking it over time.

So I really didn't sense the irony, sometimes tough to get through on the internet.

 

[Tozovac]

No, why are you banging on about keyboards. The change of keyboard has literally nothing to do with the new laptop. It happened 18 months ago.

Rather than repeat myself I highlighted in red in this thread why I feel mentioning the return to a better keyboard situation is relevant in a thread about the return of a better port situation.

Stolen MacBook Pro Schematics Confirm Apple's Plans to Add More Ports and Remove Touch Bar

Oh geez. Why am I banging on? Because the topic of the return of a few more flexible ports (this thread's topic) after they were exorcised is very much in line with the theme of other things that were once removed (for the sake of....?) and then returned... such as a more tactile keyboard...

forums.macrumors.com

... HDMI and SD slots are not "flexible" ports. They can do literally one thing.

That's fine but notice I didn't bring up those. Those aren't as important to me as USB-A which provides more flexibility to me to not have to buy/manage/carry/replace dongles/adapters.

Even USB type-A us more flexible than either of those.

Which is why I would miss having at least one on a MacBook.

When people say "flexible ports" they mean ports like USB-C/TB3, that can carry pretty much any signal.

Nope not me. I buy that a USB-C port has more flexibility but often only after you saddle up your hub or dongle/adapter bag. I term flexible as being "does not limit the devices I can instantly hook up to my or my fiancé's or parent's computer without having to drive home for an adapter."

So, no. "a few more flexible ports" are not slated to return - a few flexible ports are slated to be cut, to save the whiners from having to.. use a different cable? Or use a $7 adapter.

Here's an idea. Why can't those not in favor of having a USB-A port along side a few USB-C ports just carry around a nice USB-C hub? Why is the standard response from the USB-C-only-please crowd to say: Just buy adapters for your USB-A devices.

I am continually flummoxed how people manage to carry an entire laptop... but not one of these:
View attachment 1763232 View attachment 1763237View attachment 1763241
You know what's a PITA? Wanting to connect a high speed external device, or a display, and realising that you've used your meagre two USB-C ports, and unlike USB-C, a USB-A port can't adapt to serve either data or video, or both.

Going all-in, and maximising USB-C ports means things are slightly, and I do mean slightly less convenient for you, but it means a whole **** load of things are actually possible for a whole **** load of other people.

Why is my inconvenience less important than your potential inconvenience if Apple offers you a MacBook with 2 USB-C and one USB-A instead of three USB-C, for example?

Dell still sells a PC today that has USB2, and VGA DSUB.
Lenovo still sells a PC today with not just one, but an option for two god damn SERIAL PORTS.

Exactly how long after the USB-IF has dropped USB-A support from the latest spec, do you expect to wait? Hint: we're closing in on the 2 year birthday of that event.

Hey, if there's a market for it, why is it any skin off your back? Wow.

If all laptops continue to support a dead USB port, accessory makers will keep using it, so laptops will continue to support it, so accessory makers will keep using it.

Dead? Until each person with a me-only mindset like you forks over the $ for each user like myself who'd prefer the flexibility of having both USB-C and USB-A ports for now, it's hardly a dead port.

If I'm being impartial, I think most people balance the form and function. As an example, why buy a great looking (to the individual) and expensive flat screen TV with a sub-par picture? At least in my circle I don't know anyone who would do such a thing.

Thanks for the response, I do enjoy your thoughtful responses. I might not agree that TV's are in the same category as Macs. There are hundreds of different televisions at any one moment to choose from, for any given size and resolution. It makes sense to look for one with good function as much as looks nice in your living room. But with a Mac where the options are very, very limited, it just makes sense to ensure robust, pleasing function way first before form. Shaving a half mm off a laptop via the butterfly keyboard was such a poor decision. Exorcising physical function keys and replacing with the touchbar turned out to be just too jarring for many. Removing still-ubiquitous ports for the sake of forcing change has also turned out to just not be a universally great decision.

If you are referring to some windows based laptops, that aren't taking center stage in anyones' household and that is meant to be put away after using, I would posit why does it even matter? I would buy a decent specced ugly looking pc that performs to my specs, nice keyboard, nice display in a heartbeat, because it's only out while I'm using it.

Me too. I would buy an "ugly" Mac 1-2mm thicker if I could upgrade the battery/memory/drive easily. And have a few more unslightly ports on the sides.

I would say the same about any Mac, although Apple is a part design company, nothing they produce is "ugly". Styles change over the course of a short few years in the life of a consumer product. The best example of a polarizing form is the BMW Chris Bangle era. All of his design changes were streamlined after moving from the position of head designer. And to my thinking and so it goes.

The design elements of IOS 7 have lasted a long time although, as apple should, they are tweaking it over time.

Great comment. For me Bangle did to BMW's what iOS7 and Yosemite did to ios/OSX for me. Turned me off completely to them. His 7-series did nothing for me, it actually turned me off. I assume many loved it. Their cars went from achingly pretty & classic pre-2006 to just too cold, personally. BMW's slowly gone back to attractive cars thankfully, which makes me wonder how "worth it" the changes of the Bangle era were.

I've complained a lot about what I termed "unnecessary change for the sake of change" in Apple starting around 2013 and even BMW back around 2007, and I could say that part of both might stem from the fact that you can perhaps get blind to the fact that you've perhaps refined something to near perfection, and anything else afterwards is just rearranging furniture, more or less. Why else would we be seeing Apple returning to more ports, a better keyboard, tactile function keys, etc.

So I really didn't sense the irony, sometimes tough to get through on the internet.

Thanks for the response, I do enjoy your thoughtful responses. I might not agree that TV's are in the same category as Macs. There are hundreds of different televisions at any one moment to choose from, for any given size and resolution. It makes sense to look for one with good function as much as looks nice in your living room. But with a Mac where the options are very, very limited, it just makes sense to ensure robust, pleasing function way first before form. Shaving a half mm off a laptop via the butterfly keyboard was such a poor decision. Exorcising physical function keys and replacing with the touchbar turned out to be just too jarring for many. Removing still-ubiquitous ports for the sake of forcing change has also turned out to just not be a universally great decision.

 

[fuchsdh]

I don't know, but the butterfly keyboard was replaced in 2019. It's not exactly a new change for the machines this thread is about.

What is rumoured to change with the new machines, is removal of TB3 ports, as we've already seen happen on M1 Mac minis, and M1 iMacs.

So, I don't know why you're banging on about keyboard changes that happened 18 months ago, but it certainly seemed like you were celebrating Jony Ive having left the company, because he "removed" things, based on rumours of a new laptop.... that removes things.

Jony was the head of industrial design for the entirety of this century until he left, but people seem to forget that part when they hark back to "the golden times" (which will be different per poster, of course), and lament how he ruined what was great with some newer machine, while ignoring that he was in charge when the machine they're lamenting was created.

That's why I said:



I'm pretty sure the design purpose of the toucbbar was about having a customisable interface as part of the keyboard, and completely unrelated to being 'symmetrical'.

Whether you feel that design goal is worthy or not, will obviously depend on your use case. Personally I could take it or leave it. When I used a 2018 MBP15 as my daily machine, I never used the Touch Bar for much besides what media keys do anyway, but it worked as well as physical keys, and I almost never use function keys anyway.



I don't give two flying ****s why Jony Ive liked or disliked something.

I care about how a computer can be used, and the trend so far (during the transition to Arm) has been a reduction in high performance ports. Yes, the machines in question are all arguably entry level - but they apparently warranted more ports in their previous incarnations.

The details from the OP in this thread suggest the replacement for the current Intel MBP16 will at the very least, lose a TB3 port, and possibly lose two (the iMac has re-introduced the concept lost with the death of the 12" MacBook, of USB-C ports that are USB3.x only and not TB3 (or USB4/TB4 now)).

Dropping TB3 (or USB4/TB4/whatever) ports in exchange for single-use ports, is without question a step back in flexibility and usability for anyone except those that use the very specific single-use ports they happen to pick.

So if you happen to use HDMI and SD cards and have say, a USB-C (but not TB3) external flash drive or SSD, this change is probably a positive for you, but realistically one $25 USB-C hub would have given you more than that anyway (i.e. more card formats, USB type-A ports, etc)

But it's an absolute negative for anyone who does use the capabilities of four TB3 ports.


I have absolutely zero doubt that for all the people complaining about having to use a different HDMI cable or a USB-C hub or dock or whatever, and constantly proclaiming "but pros need X, it should be included", dropping those TB3 ports will bring a chorus of complaints from actual professionals, who actually use the TB3 ports, and can't simply buy a $7 adapter or choose a USB-C to HDMI instead of HDMI to HDMI cable, because the ports that are replacing TB3, are single use ports.



But sure. Going all-in on TB3 was absolutely about making it 'pretty'. It was never about delivering a MacBook Pro with external I/O far beyond any previous model, in terms of both flexibility and throughput.

Some people refer to the last pre-TB3 MBP15 as "the last good MBP" or similar. As a refresher: this machine had 2, USB3 ports, a HDMI port that could only do 4K at 30Hz (or 24Hz if you wanted DCI 4K) and an SD card connected via USB2 internally. The saving grace for any kind of future use of this machine would be the two TB2 ports, which even then, could drive a 5K display (if you had the discrete GPU of course, no way Intel graphics was gonna support that in 2015)

The machine that replaced it, the 2016 MBP15, had four TB3 ports. It supported four, 4K displays, or 2 5K displays - as well as the built in display, and because all the ports are TB3, you could run those four displays from just two ports.

Sure the keyboard had issues, no question. Subsequent revisions added support for one (2018), and then two (2019, 16") 6K displays.


Unless Apple is deliberately gimping their 'entry level' Arm-based Macs even compared to what they previously had, to create a larger gap to the 'pro level', the trend so far seems to suggest that when it launches, the Arm MBP16 will, in terms of I/O and display support, be worse off than the MBP15 from late 2016, and the comparison gets worse with practically every revision since then.


If the replacement turns out the way rumours and existing releases suggest, I suspect the 2019 MBP16 will be the 'last good' MBP for a significant number of people, for a while to come yet.

Okay, let's get one thing straight: they're not deliberately gimping them at all. The reality is that Apple Silicon has its roots in a mobile design where I/O is limited, and as they've brought that to the Mac that I/O limitation is demonstrated in ways it's not on iOS devices. But it's also about priorities, and "let's add a bunch of I/O to our base consumer products" is not something I imagine Apple seems a lot of clamoring for, nor is it a target they're concerned about.

I imagine there will be a larger gap with the "pro-level" computers, but frankly if you haven't noticed that Apple thinks loads of ports are a pro feature you've been living under a rock for the past, I dunno, 10 years, easy? Apple's not all that interested in a ton of I/O on their machines, and in many ways TB3 was perfect for them—you got 4 ports that were fewer in absolute number but far more useful in terms of capabilities and flexibilities. The merging of USB4 and TB3 again makes the ports more useful, not less. But it's also building for the future with a product in the present.

In many ways, the fact that the Mac mini has two extra USB ports and the iMacs have two USB-C ports (despite Apple being loathe to include USB-C ports with TB ports) demonstrates they already are being deferential to the more ports crowd.

 

[HVDynamo]

All new macbook pro with more ports. Greatest laptop ever. 3 yrs later apple removes ports. 3 yrs later all new macbook pro with more ports

I really wish one USB-A port made a comeback too. I still have a lot of USB-A devices, and barely any USB-C Devices.

 

[cmaier]

I really wish one USB-A port made a comeback too. I still have a lot of USB-A devices, and barely any USB-C Devices.

Other than thumb drives, and maybe a couple other esoteric devices with poor designs where cables are hard-wired, there aren’t “usb-a devices.” Buy a new cable. Voila. USB-C device.

 

[Stephen.R]

the return of a better port situation

But it isn't a better port situation.

Nope not me. I buy that a USB-C port has more flexibility but often only after you saddle up your hub or dongle/adapter bag.

Ok great so we're agreed that USB-C (and when I say that I mean TB3/USB4/TB4, not plain USB 3.x Type-C as seen on the discontinued MacBook 12" or the new M1 iMac's additional ports) ports have more flexibility. Yes an adapter may be required.

I term flexible as being "does not limit the devices I can instantly hook up to my or my fiancé's or parent's computer without having to drive home for an adapter."

Look if you don't know what a word means, just don't use it.

Emphasis mine:

flexible | ˈflɛksɪb(ə)l
adjective
capable of bending easily without breaking
able to be easily modified to respond to altered circumstances
(of a person) ready and able to change so as to adapt to different circumstances

What you want is not flexibility, but convenience. I hope I don't have to quote the definition for that too?

And look, I get it. Convenience is great. But this is about convenience at the expense of functionality.

Hence why I keep asking people: Ok, you want HDMI and SD slots (or type-A USB in your case) built-in, for convenience - but do you still want that, if it comes at the expense of existing levels of TB3/USB-C flexibility?

So far, only one person has actually said "yes it's not a problem" but he also suggested that those who use four TB3 ports could buy a non-existent portable USB4 hub for an expected $200+ (if it ever exists).

Why is my inconvenience less important than your potential inconvenience if Apple offers you a MacBook with 2 USB-C and one USB-A instead of three USB-C, for example?

Because it is inconvenience for you. It's removing functionality for me. A USB-C/TB3 port can essentially "become" a USB-A port (or even a heap of them) with a cheap, ubiquitous cable, adapter or hub.

There is no hub or dongle or adapter in the world that can make a USB-A port do anything a USB-C port can do, besides carry a USB2 or 3 signal.
Compared to a plain-jane USB 3 Type-C port, (i.e. the extra ports on an M1 iMac, or potentially the 'third' USB-C port shown in the schematics discussed in this thread, a USB-A port can not offer: DisplayPort Alt Mode. HDMI Alt Mode.

Compared to the 'full' TB3 USB-C ports found on every existing Mac (bar the 12" MacBook that was USB-C only not TB3), a USB-A port can not offer: DisplayPort Alt mode. HDMI Alt mode. TB3 Alt. mode - which is essentially PCIe lanes + DisplayPort. So anything that can operate over 4 lanes of PCIe, can operate over TB3. High speed network cards. Audio interfaces. GPUs. High speed SSDs. <Insert high speed I/O port>. You name it, it can almost certainly work over TB3.

That's the "inconvenient truth" that people don't like to acknowledge: You can "add" a HDMI or USB-A or SD slot to a 2016-2020 using a TB3 port (or even just a USB-C port) with a cheap, ubiquitous adapter or cable. Plenty of them offer all three of those things. Some even offer all of those things, plus USB-PD pass-through.

A HDMI port or an SD slot are very much single-use ports. USB-A is slightly more flexible, e.g. USB3 network adapters are a thing, but they're very much limited by both USB's lower overall bandwidth, and then again by the overhead of using USB for that device.


So please stop trying to equate this as just "your inconvenience vs my inconvenience".

Why can't those not in favor of having a USB-A port along side a few USB-C ports just carry around a nice USB-C hub? Why is the standard response from the USB-C-only-please crowd to say: Just buy adapters for your USB-A devices.

A bus-powered (i.e. portable) hub to provide, for example 3 USB type-A, and ethernet, from a single USB-C port costs about $20 to 25 at the low end. The market is flooded with options for this type of device. What ports do you want? Type-A USB? Downstream Type-C? Type-C with USB-PD passthrough? SD? TF? HDMI? Ethernet? VGA? DP? 3.5mm audio? There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of options, and that's without the USB-C to <insert single port type> adapters that are also on the market.


So, why can't I instead just plug in a hub to connect TB3 devices, so you can have a convenient USB-A port? Well TB3 hubs don't exist. USB4 and TB4 hubs do exist, but they start at about $200, and all require AC power. But even if/when they do, and even if we just accept that 10x the cost is 'worth it' for someone else's convenience, you're then trying to squeeze a bunch of high-speed I/O through a single cable.

Hey, if there's a market for it, why is it any skin off your back? Wow.

I don't give two ***** what they sell, I'm just sick of this "x is still around so it should be on the laptop". That kind of thinking is what leads to PCs with 2 'high speed' (relatively, they're still probably only 5Gbps) USB ports, about 8 USB2 ports, a serial port, PS2 ports and serial ports.

Dead? Until each person with a me-only mindset like you forks over the $ for each user like myself who'd prefer the flexibility of having both USB-C and USB-A ports for now, it's hardly a dead port.

Would you prefer if I said "dead-end"?

The problem isn't that you want USB type-A. It's that Apple is never going to give us the existing TB3/USB-C ports we have had for the last half-decade, and your USB-A, and that other guys' HDMI and that other guys' SD slot.

We know this. Claiming otherwise is either naïve to the extreme, or disingenuous. This whole thread is about the leaked schematics that show this very phenomenon happening, exactly as we warned, and in contrast to what every god damn whiner insisted "oh but why would they remove TB3, of course they'll just add a USB-A and HDMI and SD slot".

Every one of them parroted that same ****ing ******** assumption "oh of course it won't affect you, it's just adding ports". "Why would they remove those ports".

So, to recap this particular point: flexibility doesn't mean what you think it does, and claiming that it's the people who are arguing to retain the actually flexible port, which any one can use for anything are "me-only", as opposed to those who want single-use ports, which we know will come at the expense of actually flexible ports, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

You want me to fork over the $? Ok sure. Send me a ****ing address, and if the new MBP retains all TB3/USB-C ports, I'll send you the ****ing $7 it costs to get a USB type-A port back. Or **** it, do you want HDMI and SD slot too? I'll make it an even $30, you can choose. But by the same token, if it ships with less TB3 ports to allow for single use ports, I expect you to send me a ****ing magician who can create an adapter to turn those single-use ports into TB3 ports again. Sound like a good deal?

 

[xaqt93]

I honestly would laugh so hard if this was not stolen at all and it was just a render. Lol. Like, we knew these rumors. This company could have easily said,"Yeah, we hacked it and this is it." and then everyone believes them. Honestly, I like the Touch Bar and I don't want to see it go. I just got the M1 MacBook Pro and this is by far my favorite computer I have had in a long time. I personally don't see the need to upgrade my computer anytime soon...Haha. But I guess we will see.

 

[Stephen.R]

But it's also about priorities, and "let's add a bunch of I/O to our base consumer products" is not something I imagine Apple seems a lot of clamoring for, nor is it a target they're concerned about.

... but the M1 Macs released so far, aren't just "not adding" I/O ports. Every single one of them regressed in terms of I/O. Admittedly the two-port laptops didn't regress in number of ports, but they still regressed in display support.

The mini regressed in display support and port count.

The iMac went even further than the mini with the port count regression.

And I get it. The GPU only supports so many displays. They apparently want to use 1 controller per TB port now, so providing four ports would mean providing four controllers.

But my point is still this:
- either Apple has accepted that at least initially Arm Macs will have worse I/O than their predecessors - I see no reason to believe this acceptance wouldn't also carry over to a MBP (the schematic confirms this acceptance of worse I/O, regardless of how many displays it's GPU supports or how those may be connected);

OR

- apple is deliberately over-gimping their "entry level" Arm Macs I/O. Presumably because this would allow them to differentiate easier for higher end models (the iMac already shows a preview of this: more $ = more ports, not a faster CPU).


And you know what, if they take that approach with the MBP and let the cheap-end have 3 USB-C ports, plus a bunch of single-use ports, and provide 4 or 6 or 8 full-speed TB3 ports on the high end, I'm 100% fine with that.
WIN. ****ING. WIN. Shut up and take my money. Etc.


But I fear that isn't the likely outcome. So we'll get another X years of gimped I/O, because Jimmy Whines A Lot didn't want to use a $7 USB adapter.

if you haven't noticed that Apple thinks loads of ports are a pro feature you've been living under a rock for the past, I dunno, 10 years, easy?

Define "loads of ports"? Do you mean the number or variety?

you got 4 ports that were fewer in absolute number but far more useful in terms of capabilities and flexibilities. The merging of USB4 and TB3 again makes the ports more useful, not less. But it's also building for the future with a product in the present

And now they're apparently reducing the number of TB3 ports, to add back single-use, Whiner-Approved ports. I don't know if you misunderstood my point - I'm not against them focusing all-in on TB3 ports. I'm against them removing TB3 ports - whether it be just a straight removal (as with the M1 mini) or a "swap" (as it will apparently be with the MBP).

In many ways, the fact that the Mac mini has two extra USB ports and the iMacs have two USB-C ports (despite Apple being loathe to include USB-C ports with TB ports) demonstrates they already are being deferential to the more ports crowd.

The Mac mini doesn't have "two extra" USB ports. It's had two USB3 type-A and four TB3/USB-C ports since 2018. Before that, it had 4 USB3 and 2 TB2. Before that it had 4 USB3 a TB1 and a FW800.

The M1 Mac mini simply drops the number of ports available.

the more ports crowd

You need to be more specific who you mean.

I am very pro on "more ports". More TB3/USB4/TB4 ports. What's being done so far with M1 desktops at least, can not accurately be described as "more ports". It's DIFFERENT ports in some cases (i.e. the M1 iMac swaps 4 USB3 type-a ports for 2 USB3 type-c ports), but it's also less ports.

The rumoured MBP in the schematic apparently shows 3 USB-C ports of some kind, HDMI, and SD. Technically I guess that is "more", but it's more accurately different. They're not just adding to the ports. They're removing/swapping.


Edit: fixed "are" > "aren't" in the first sentence. I think you knew what I meant though.

 

[Arctic Moose]

What the 2021 MBP really needs is an ADB port so I can use my Extended II keyboard. (What? Doesn’t suit you? Tough luck. It is much more useful to me than USB-A, HDMI or SD.)

 

[HVDynamo]

Other than thumb drives, and maybe a couple other esoteric devices with poor designs where cables are hard-wired, there aren’t “usb-a devices.” Buy a new cable. Voila. USB-C device.

This argument of 'just buy more stuff' always astounds me. Problem is that a lot of the things I have that are USB-A and use on a regular basis are Thumb drives and logitech mice with a 'gasp' USB-A wireless dongle. No cable. So, to use those devices that literally have 0 reason to be replaced, I have to buy and carry more garbage with me. Just one port. ONE USB-A port. Why is that such a big deal to you all?!? The big problem with Apples stance here is that they completely missed the transitional machines. I had a laptop with both Firewire 400 and Firewire 800. Then later Firewire 400 was dropped. Why the F couldn't they have done the same with USB-C. Have BOTH for a while, then when the time is right drop the older port.

The other issue I have is the robustness of the port. USB-C is way more fragile than USB-A. It has it's benefits, yes, but I've seen many broken usb-c ports. Pretty much every friend I have who has a laptop with USB-C ports has had one or more just quit working on them. Not just on a mac either. I suspect that has more to do with using the USB-C port as a charging port, so at least with MagSafe coming back I won't have to wear out my USB-C port charging.

 

[HVDynamo]

HDMI? What for...

MagSafe ok but as long as we can still charge via USB C. I want to be able to charge my laptop from the monitor

Because countless meeting rooms everywhere have HDMI as the interface to connect to the projectors. It's nice to not have to remember a dongle to do the presentation that's on your laptop.

 

[HVDynamo]

It sounds so ridiculous can’t believe it but the source seems solid. old MagSafe idiotic idea, hdmi is part of usb-c and who the hell needs an SD card.
ports as of now perfectly fine and was never an issue for the other 99% of users.

Magsafe was and is not an idiotic idea at all. It's saved my laptop many times.
HDMI is in meeting rooms everywhere, and it's a pain in the ass to forget a dongle when you were supposed to present.
Creators use SD cards as many cameras still use them to hold the pictures/videos taken.

Calling ******** on your 99% statistic. Maybe 99% of the people in your echo chamber.

I will finally be upgrading from my old machine specifically BECAUSE of MagSafe, HDMI, and SD Card slot return. As will many others I'm sure. I just wish they had thrown in a single USB-A port along with those. I still use more USB-A devices than USB-C. Dongles suck ass.

 

[Arctic Moose]

ONE USB-A port. Why is that such a big deal to you all?!?

Because we desperately want the ****ing thing to go away! For that to happen it needs to disappear from laptops.

 

[Stephen.R]

Why the F couldn't they have done the same with USB-C. Have BOTH for a while, then when the time is right drop the older port.

Well given that you're still moaning about it 5 years later, when the market is already chock full of USB-C accessories, exactly how long do you imagine until "the time is right", and how much longer would that have been if they'd half-assed it and split to USB Type A and TB3/USB-C ports?

ONE USB-A port. Why is that such a big deal to you all?!?

The big deal is that we know in reality, that is likely to mean one less USB-C port. A USB-C port can adapt to USB-A devices, the reverse is not always true. Removing a USB-C/TB3 port to add a USB-A port is a negative step for flexibility. Hence arguably 80% of the non "morality" discussion in this thread.

I will finally be upgrading from my old machine specifically BECAUSE of MagSafe, HDMI, and SD Card slot return. As will many others I'm sure. I just wish they had thrown in a single USB-A port along with those. I still use more USB-A devices than USB-C.

And conversely, I specifically won't be upgrading, BECAUSE of a reduction in TB3 ports to placate the whiners. As many others won't, I'm sure.

As I've said earlier, I think over the next few years, the late 2019 MBP16 is going to become a sought after item, not only because it's (presumably) the last 16" Intel MBP, but because it's (presumably) the last one before the external I/O get's gimped.

 

[Nütztjanix]

What the 2021 MBP really needs is an ADB port so I can use my Extended II keyboard. (What? Doesn’t suit you? Tough luck. It is much more useful to me than USB-A, HDMI or SD.)

And while they're at it, a parallel port for my HP DeskJet 720C would be great!

 

[Stephen.R]

And while they're at it, a parallel port for my HP DeskJet 720C would be great!

No love for a BNC to plug in to Coax ethernet?

 

[Arctic Moose]

No love for a BNC to plug in to Coax ethernet?

No, thanks, I am quite happy to finally have upgraded to 10GbE.

However, I do have a 2 GB hard drive and a matching stackable CD burner that are both SCSI sitting on a shelf here, would be great if I could have a port for them.

 

[Stephen.R]

No, thanks, I am quite happy to finally have upgraded to 10GbE.

However, I do have a 2 GB hard drive and a matching stackable CD burner that are both SCSI sitting on a shelf here, would be great if I could have a port for them.

Surely everyone can agree to a 90mm mangeto-optical drive? Or, if it's a thickness issue, at least a Floptical drive? No? What about a Zip disk?

 

[Nütztjanix]

No love for a BNC to plug in to Coax ethernet?

Nah, I‘d prefer screw terminals for my twisted pair telephone wire.

 

[HVDynamo]

This might not be a problem for Apple Silicon.

Nope, The power delivery will not have anything to do with the CPU itself.

 

[HVDynamo]

Because we desperately want the ****ing thing to go away! For that to happen it needs to disappear from laptops.

But why do you care so much that a port go away? What did it ever do to you? If you don't want to use it then DON'T. It being there does nothing to cause you pain. There is no reason, whatsoever for you all to get so upset over a port being included on a laptop. I don't use the Firewire 800 port that's still on my Mid 2012 cMBP, and I don't give two ***** that it's there. I understand why that isn't included in today's machines anymore as it really is a true legacy port. But USB-A is still very much ubiquitous, and it's dumb as **** to remove ubiquitous ports on a portable laptop if there is physical room to include them.

 

[Tozovac]

Look if you don't know what a word means, just don't use it.

Emphasis mine:


What you want is not flexibility, but convenience. I hope I don't have to quote the definition for that too?

And look, I get it. Convenience is great. But this is about convenience at the expense of functionality.

Ok let's play the English teacher game.

From LINK:

The word “flexibility” technically means the ability to bend without breaking. However, people often use it to describe the ability to adjust to changes in your life without creating stress or drama.

I predict you’ll quickly jump on trying to prove that this applies to the person adjusting to changes. I’m applying it to the device now & before. "Flexible" in my usage means less drama in my life from not having to scramble to find an adapter for those times you just don't have it with you, because the device has been designed to adjust to various typical/pervasive/timely usage profiles. But oh, how nice it is when your laptop has at least one port for a still-pervasive and (will still be for years to come) in-use USB-A port. Look, I purchased a Sandisk 1TB SSD 6 months ago w/USB-C port that came with a short USB-C cable and C to A adapter. After 4 months, thru the course of human nature, I can no longer find the adapter. Now I'm forced to buy one so I can once again connect to my very-still-useful 2014 MBA. New drama and inconvenience introduced into my life (and new spending needed) to regain the ability to access that drive with my MBA.

Because it is inconvenience for you. It's removing functionality for me. A USB-C/TB3 port can essentially "become" a USB-A port (or even a heap of them) with a cheap, ubiquitous cable, adapter or hub.

There is no hub or dongle or adapter in the world that can make a USB-A port do anything a USB-C port can do, besides carry a USB2 or 3 signal.

...

So please stop trying to equate this as just "your inconvenience vs my inconvenience".

So, why can't I instead just plug in a hub to connect TB3 devices, so you can have a convenient USB-A port? Well TB3 hubs don't exist. USB4 and TB4 hubs do exist, but they start at about $200, and all require AC power. But even if/when they do, and even if we just accept that 10x the cost is 'worth it' for someone else's convenience, you're then trying to squeeze a bunch of high-speed I/O through a single cable.

How is it removing functionality if you had, say, two USB-C/TB4 ports, one A port, and your $200 hub? I suggest you stop your attempts at convincing and start saving up for a hub and get used to the idea of having to port it around, like users should port around adapters as you suggest. Why is it so obviously ok for your to make decisions for others who should just buy/manage/store and not lose adapters but not OK for you be responsible for your actions only and buy/manage/carry a hub so you'll have enough ports.

I don't give two ***** what they sell, I'm just sick of this "x is still around so it should be on the laptop". That kind of thinking is what leads to PCs with 2 'high speed' (relatively, they're still probably only 5Gbps) USB ports, about 8 USB2 ports, a serial port, PS2 ports and serial ports.


Would you prefer if I said "dead-end"?

The problem isn't that you want USB type-A. It's that Apple is never going to give us the existing TB3/USB-C ports we have had for the last half-decade, and your USB-A, and that other guys' HDMI and that other guys' SD slot.

We know this. Claiming otherwise is either naïve to the extreme, or disingenuous. This whole thread is about the leaked schematics that show this very phenomenon happening, exactly as we warned, and in contrast to what every god damn whiner insisted "oh but why would they remove TB3, of course they'll just add a USB-A and HDMI and SD slot".

Every one of them parroted that same ****ing ******** assumption "oh of course it won't affect you, it's just adding ports". "Why would they remove those ports".

So, to recap this particular point: flexibility doesn't mean what you think it does, and claiming that it's the people who are arguing to retain the actually flexible port, which any one can use for anything are "me-only", as opposed to those who want single-use ports, which we know will come at the expense of actually flexible ports, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

You want me to fork over the $? Ok sure. Send me a ****ing address, and if the new MBP retains all TB3/USB-C ports, I'll send you the ****ing $7 it costs to get a USB type-A port back. Or **** it, do you want HDMI and SD slot too? I'll make it an even $30, you can choose. But by the same token, if it ships with less TB3 ports to allow for single use ports, I expect you to send me a ****ing magician who can create an adapter to turn those single-use ports into TB3 ports again. Sound like a good deal?

Lordy. Do any of your friends and family hint that you might have anger management issues?

 

[sandimacd]

I'm an integrated port lover. I feel the lack of ports in my pocketbook not to mention the comical, somewhat hideous image of my MBP with two sides of dangling adaptors and cords. Or being trapped in stationary mode, attached to a dock. All my previous MacBooks were sleek. I was proud of how they looked and how they could handle any situation not connections thrown at me.

The USB-C ports are so close together that when I plug in a USB-A adapter it blocks the other other C- port from being accessed.
As a pro product I would have expected an ethernet port, a true audio in/out port and a charging port for USB-A devices. And an option for a HDMI port.
But no, I had to spend another $600 to replace my perfectly working USB-A devices, purchase a $350 dock to handle the Ethernet and monitor and purchase adaptors for Ethernet and audio connections.

In portable mode, I have a whole bag of cords and adaptors that need to come with me. Around the house, I am always searching for which room I left the adaptor I need or I resort to using it in desktop mode with the dock with an external keyboard that doesn't have touch ID. And of course after spending $$ on an external keyboard, Apple had now rolled out a touch ID keyboard. Great. I can hand over even more money.

I don't agree that USB-A products are dead. They are being made and sold as this is being written. For an environmentally concious company, it astounds me that Apppe doesn't consider the impact of not being able to use perfectly good USB-A devices. I never concerned myself with ordering peripherals but now I find myself checking to see if it has USB-C or not.

 

[Tozovac]

This argument of 'just buy more stuff' always astounds me. Problem is that a lot of the things I have that are USB-A and use on a regular basis are Thumb drives and logitech mice with a 'gasp' USB-A wireless dongle. No cable. So, to use those devices that literally have 0 reason to be replaced, I have to buy and carry more garbage with me. Just one port. ONE USB-A port. Why is that such a big deal to you all?!?

Especially astounding is when one group makes a decision that the best solution for others should be for THEM to buy the more stuff.

The big problem with Apples stance here is that they completely missed the transitional machines. I had a laptop with both Firewire 400 and Firewire 800. Then later Firewire 400 was dropped. Why the F couldn't they have done the same with USB-C. Have BOTH for a while, then when the time is right drop the older port.

Admittedly, deciding “when the time is right” will never please everyone. But. If the rumors are true about the return of at least one USB-A port for now, then clearly Apple would be feeling the time isn’t right quite yet, which I agree with wholeheartedly.