Stolen MacBook Pro Schematics Confirm Apple's Plans to Add More Ports and Remove Touch Bar

[cmaier]

This argument of 'just buy more stuff' always astounds me. Problem is that a lot of the things I have that are USB-A and use on a regular basis are Thumb drives and logitech mice with a 'gasp' USB-A wireless dongle. No cable. So, to use those devices that literally have 0 reason to be replaced, I have to buy and carry more garbage with me. Just one port. ONE USB-A port. Why is that such a big deal to you all?!? The big problem with Apples stance here is that they completely missed the transitional machines. I had a laptop with both Firewire 400 and Firewire 800. Then later Firewire 400 was dropped. Why the F couldn't they have done the same with USB-C. Have BOTH for a while, then when the time is right drop the older port.

The other issue I have is the robustness of the port. USB-C is way more fragile than USB-A. It has it's benefits, yes, but I've seen many broken usb-c ports. Pretty much every friend I have who has a laptop with USB-C ports has had one or more just quit working on them. Not just on a mac either. I suspect that has more to do with using the USB-C port as a charging port, so at least with MagSafe coming back I won't have to wear out my USB-C port charging.

What a self-martyring take. The fact that you can buy a $6 cable and move on with your life and be compatible with the next decade’s worth of computers isn’t good enough for you? You require that Apple continue to support old technologies forever? When would it be okay with you for Apple to drop USB-A? 2050? 2100? When you, personally, have finally replaced all your peripherals with USB-C connectors? When USB-D comes out?

There are two types of people in life. Those who need to complain about problems, and those who solve them. Here there is a simple solution.

 

[Tozovac]

What a self-martyring take. The fact that you can buy a $6 cable and move on with your life and be compatible with the next decade’s worth of computers isn’t good enough for you? You require that Apple continue to support old technologies forever? When would it be okay with you for Apple to drop USB-A? 2050? 2100? When you, personally, have finally replaced all your peripherals with USB-C connectors? When USB-D comes out?

There are two types of people in life. Those who need to complain about problems, and those who solve them. Here there is a simple solution.

There are two types of people in life. Those who feel responsible to dictate others’ priorities/actions and those who can see others’ sides of things. For the last time, it’s not anything about the cost. It’s more about the convenience. Maybe many of us would rather the MacBook itself be the adapter/dongle to universally connect to the millions of ubiquitous devices out there that aren’t being scrapped anytime soon. USB-A/C ports and everyone wins. I want you to win and you want you to win. You want you to win and users like me to follow your vision. Not gonna happen.

 

[Klae17]

But it isn't a better port situation.


Ok great so we're agreed that USB-C (and when I say that I mean TB3/USB4/TB4, not plain USB 3.x Type-C as seen on the discontinued MacBook 12" or the new M1 iMac's additional ports) ports have more flexibility. Yes an adapter may be required.


Look if you don't know what a word means, just don't use it.

Emphasis mine:


What you want is not flexibility, but convenience. I hope I don't have to quote the definition for that too?

And look, I get it. Convenience is great. But this is about convenience at the expense of functionality.

Hence why I keep asking people: Ok, you want HDMI and SD slots (or type-A USB in your case) built-in, for convenience - but do you still want that, if it comes at the expense of existing levels of TB3/USB-C flexibility?

So far, only one person has actually said "yes it's not a problem" but he also suggested that those who use four TB3 ports could buy a non-existent portable USB4 hub for an expected $200+ (if it ever exists).



Because it is inconvenience for you. It's removing functionality for me. A USB-C/TB3 port can essentially "become" a USB-A port (or even a heap of them) with a cheap, ubiquitous cable, adapter or hub.

There is no hub or dongle or adapter in the world that can make a USB-A port do anything a USB-C port can do, besides carry a USB2 or 3 signal.
Compared to a plain-jane USB 3 Type-C port, (i.e. the extra ports on an M1 iMac, or potentially the 'third' USB-C port shown in the schematics discussed in this thread, a USB-A port can not offer: DisplayPort Alt Mode. HDMI Alt Mode.

Compared to the 'full' TB3 USB-C ports found on every existing Mac (bar the 12" MacBook that was USB-C only not TB3), a USB-A port can not offer: DisplayPort Alt mode. HDMI Alt mode. TB3 Alt. mode - which is essentially PCIe lanes + DisplayPort. So anything that can operate over 4 lanes of PCIe, can operate over TB3. High speed network cards. Audio interfaces. GPUs. High speed SSDs. <Insert high speed I/O port>. You name it, it can almost certainly work over TB3.

That's the "inconvenient truth" that people don't like to acknowledge: You can "add" a HDMI or USB-A or SD slot to a 2016-2020 using a TB3 port (or even just a USB-C port) with a cheap, ubiquitous adapter or cable. Plenty of them offer all three of those things. Some even offer all of those things, plus USB-PD pass-through.

A HDMI port or an SD slot are very much single-use ports. USB-A is slightly more flexible, e.g. USB3 network adapters are a thing, but they're very much limited by both USB's lower overall bandwidth, and then again by the overhead of using USB for that device.


So please stop trying to equate this as just "your inconvenience vs my inconvenience".


A bus-powered (i.e. portable) hub to provide, for example 3 USB type-A, and ethernet, from a single USB-C port costs about $20 to 25 at the low end. The market is flooded with options for this type of device. What ports do you want? Type-A USB? Downstream Type-C? Type-C with USB-PD passthrough? SD? TF? HDMI? Ethernet? VGA? DP? 3.5mm audio? There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of options, and that's without the USB-C to <insert single port type> adapters that are also on the market.


So, why can't I instead just plug in a hub to connect TB3 devices, so you can have a convenient USB-A port? Well TB3 hubs don't exist. USB4 and TB4 hubs do exist, but they start at about $200, and all require AC power. But even if/when they do, and even if we just accept that 10x the cost is 'worth it' for someone else's convenience, you're then trying to squeeze a bunch of high-speed I/O through a single cable.


I don't give two ***** what they sell, I'm just sick of this "x is still around so it should be on the laptop". That kind of thinking is what leads to PCs with 2 'high speed' (relatively, they're still probably only 5Gbps) USB ports, about 8 USB2 ports, a serial port, PS2 ports and serial ports.


Would you prefer if I said "dead-end"?

The problem isn't that you want USB type-A. It's that Apple is never going to give us the existing TB3/USB-C ports we have had for the last half-decade, and your USB-A, and that other guys' HDMI and that other guys' SD slot.

We know this. Claiming otherwise is either naïve to the extreme, or disingenuous. This whole thread is about the leaked schematics that show this very phenomenon happening, exactly as we warned, and in contrast to what every god damn whiner insisted "oh but why would they remove TB3, of course they'll just add a USB-A and HDMI and SD slot".

Every one of them parroted that same ****ing ******** assumption "oh of course it won't affect you, it's just adding ports". "Why would they remove those ports".

So, to recap this particular point: flexibility doesn't mean what you think it does, and claiming that it's the people who are arguing to retain the actually flexible port, which any one can use for anything are "me-only", as opposed to those who want single-use ports, which we know will come at the expense of actually flexible ports, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

You want me to fork over the $? Ok sure. Send me a ****ing address, and if the new MBP retains all TB3/USB-C ports, I'll send you the ****ing $7 it costs to get a USB type-A port back. Or **** it, do you want HDMI and SD slot too? I'll make it an even $30, you can choose. But by the same token, if it ships with less TB3 ports to allow for single use ports, I expect you to send me a ****ing magician who can create an adapter to turn those single-use ports into TB3 ports again. Sound like a good deal?

I love you for this.

 

[gnasher729]

No love for a BNC to plug in to Coax ethernet?

I still have a SCART cable in a box somewhere. The connector is gone on my new TV.

 

[Tozovac]

When would it be okay with you for Apple to drop USB-A? 2050? 2100? When you, personally, have finally replaced all your peripherals with USB-C connectors? When USB-D comes out?

The time might be close to the right time when Apple stops selling devices with USB-A cables. That at minimum is a first step.

When printers, audio hubs, and most peripheral devices come not with USB-A but USB-C cables. Even then, there will still be usb-A devices in use at home. But once USB-A equipped devices are pretty much out of the market, then is a good time.

 

[cmaier]

The time might be close to the right time when Apple stops selling devices with USB-A cables. That at minimum is a first step.

When printers, audio hubs, and most peripheral devices come not with USB-A but USB-C cables. Even then, there will still be usb-A devices in use at home. But once USB-A equipped devices are pretty much out of the market, then is a good time.

Which will never happen as long as apple and others keep selling computers with USB-A ports. If it were up to you, we’d still be rocking machines with centronics and rs-232 ports. Thank god apple doesn’t listen to you.

 

[MacBH928]

There were bad choices, but above all one disastrous one, the butterfly keyboard, which all by itself changed the economy of laptop ownership by sapping the resale value. Nobody wants to buy a used time bomb just because the bomb didn't go off for the previous owner.

to be fair, I have to know if Apple know these keyboards were susceptible to failure before sale or it is something that came to their attention after mass market production. None the less, extensive research should have been done in real world use case.

 

[MacBH928]

You require that Apple continue to support old technologies forever? When would it be okay with you for Apple to drop USB-A? 2050? 2100? When you, personally, have finally replaced all your peripherals with USB-C connectors? When USB-D comes out?

1)USB-A is not old technology, new products are still being shipped with it

2) keep USB-A ports option until most electronics manufacturers switch over to USB-C cables. I bought a 2020 Apple iPhone, it came with USB-A wire.

 

[Tozovac]

Which will never happen as long as apple and others keep selling computers with USB-A ports. If it were up to you, we’d still be rocking machines with centronics and rs-232 ports. Thank god apple doesn’t listen to you.

Nope. Chicken/egg. There’s a time, there will have to be a time. The time just isn’t yet even if you think it is.

Great example supporting this:

1)USB-A is not old technology, new products are still being shipped with it

2) keep USB-A ports option until most electronics manufacturers switch over to USB-C cables. I bought a 2020 Apple iPhone, it came with USB-A wire.

 

[ArPe]

Cant wait for a magnetic round USB connector.

Until then, send John Wick to eliminate ransomware hackers. Don’t ever pay them a dime no matter what. They are powerless if you don’t give them power.

 

[Nütztjanix]

Why do I have the feeling that those who demand for USB-A and HDMI to replace a Thunderbolt port the loudest are the same people who complain that Macs aren't future proof because you can't upgrade anything?

 

[Stephen.R]

The word “flexibility” technically means the ability to bend without breaking. However, people often use it to describe the ability to adjust to changes in your life without creating stress or drama.

I predict you’ll quickly jump on trying to prove that this applies to the person adjusting to changes. I’m applying it to the device now & before. "Flexible" in my usage means less drama in my life from not having to scramble to find an adapter for those times you just don't have it with you

So you don't like the Oxford definition that says its about a device that can adapt to different situations. You're referencing a definition about people but then claim that you're applying that definition to the device itself... I mean. It certainly does sound like you are unable to adapt to the changes.

New drama and inconvenience introduced into my life (and new spending needed) to regain the ability to access that drive with my MBA.

See. Wouldn't have been a problem if you'd had USB-C ports on the laptop. 🤣

How is it removing functionality if you had, say, two USB-C/TB4 ports, one A port, and your $200 hub?

The $200 minimum hub requires ac power.

the whole point of a laptop is you can use it without power because it has this thing inside called a battery.

There are no bus powered usb4/tb4 hubs. None. Nada. Nil. Zip. Zilch. Zero. **** all.

Lordy. Do any of your friends and family hint that you might have anger management issues?

no because they’re not repressed puritans that associate swearing with inherent anger.

somewhat hideous image of my MBP with two sides of dangling adaptors and cords

So you’re against all ports then surely?

seriously though: your biggest concern is what it looks like, rather than how it works?

But no, I had to spend another $600 to replace my perfectly working USB-A devices, purchase a $350 dock to handle the Ethernet and monitor and purchase adaptors for Ethernet and audio connections.

You didn’t have to spent $950.

literally $28 gets you a 7-in-1 USB-c hub that has more external non-TB ports than the fabled 2015 MBP15.

$60 ups it to 60Hz HDMI and adds Ethernet.

not being able to use perfectly good USB-A devices.

you can use them. You already know that because you’re using some already.

Especially astounding is when one group makes a decision that the best solution for others should be for THEM to buy the more stuff.

So it’s fine for you to suggest I buy a non-existent $200+ hub to replace lost ports, and ignore the ones I literally can’t use, but it’s “astounding” for me to suggest that you could add back your type A USB, hdmi and card reader for $28.

you must be astounded easily.

 

[tubular]

The on

Why do I have the feeling that those who demand for USB-A and HDMI to replace a Thunderbolt port the loudest are the same people who complain that Macs aren't future proof because you can't upgrade anything?

The 2016-era MacBook Pros were future-proofed via USB-C One Port To Rule Them All ... except that future turns out not to be on our timeline.

 

[Stephen.R]

It’s more about the convenience.

At least you finally admitted that.

Do you understand yet why I value something being actually possible for me (plug in a tb3 device) higher than something being slightly more convenient for you (plug in a USB-a device without

new products are still being shipped with it

New products are still shipped with serial ports. Should apple add that?

**** it lets consider USB. The last electric shaver I bought, has a USB type-a to... micro USB I think? Cord to charge it.

should we wait for all the shavers in the world to switch over to USB-c cables before you’ll claim it’s too early? I have a portable little LED work light and a bright ass torch (both almost certainly knockoffs of a more expensive brand) that both charge via USB, and they came with USB type-a cables too.

what about those portable power bank devices that can jump start a car. They sometimes charge themselves via USB-a too (you’d think USB-PD would make more sense there?).

I could go on. The list of things that have USB ports is kind of ridiculous and irrelevant. At this point I’d safely say I have more completely non computer related devices that charge via USB than actual USB data devices, that are USB-a only.
If I remove the items that are currently using USB-a data but have a changeable cord the list drops even more... to I think... maybe two old flash drives... maybe a 2g or 4G? I dunno, small enough that they’re not practical to use, and were replaced by combo a/c drives.

Nope. Chicken/egg.

It’s a chicken/egg scenario specifically if you say “we can’t drop USB A until the market stops shipping USB A products”.

Why do I have the feeling that those who demand for USB-A and HDMI to replace a Thunderbolt port the loudest are the same people who complain that Macs aren't future proof because you can't upgrade anything?

I dunno, that seems a bit presumptuous.... oh. Carry on.

I purchased a Sandisk 1TB SSD 6 months ago w/USB-C port that came with a short USB-C cable and C to A adapter. After 4 months, thru the course of human nature, I can no longer find the adapter. Now I'm forced to buy one so I can once again connect to my very-still-useful 2014 MBA.

 

[Nütztjanix]

The on


The 2016-era MacBook Pros were future-proofed via USB-C One Port To Rule Them All ... except that future turns out not to be on our timeline.

You're wrong. They had Thunderbolt 3 ports, and this future has been on my timeline for many years now. All my peripherals, regardless of interface, connect to these ports easily. My dual 4K displays via USB-C to DP cables, my external SSDs via USB-C cables, and a whole bunch of old and slow USB-A stuff via a simple, inexpensive USB hub with USB-C upstream.

 

[Stephen.R]

You're wrong. They had Thunderbolt 3 ports, and this future has been on my timeline for many years now. All my peripherals, regardless of interface, connect to these ports easily. My dual 4K displays via USB-C to DP cables, my external SSDs via USB-C cables, and a whole bunch of old and slow USB-A stuff via a simple, inexpensive USB hub with USB-C upstream.

You must be a wizard to have achieved all that with nothing but tb3 ports.

 

[Nütztjanix]

You must be a wizard to have achieved all that with nothing but tb3 ports.

That's what I keep hearing day in, day out. And all without whining, mind you!

 

[ingambe]

The on


The 2016-era MacBook Pros were future-proofed via USB-C One Port To Rule Them All ... except that future turns out not to be on our timeline.

It really depends on your use case
I know peoples who never plug any device into their mac
Some like me who only need an HDMI to USB C adapter in my bag, and a dock at home

I bought a portable hub with a lot of ports to USB C thinking I would need it, and I've almost never used it 😄

 

[theluggage]

No love for a BNC to plug in to Coax ethernet?

Seriously, do people really think that these juvenile false equivalences are somehow clever?

Obsolete: (adj.)

1. (in the real world) no longer produced or used; out of date. See 10base2 coax Ethernet (RIP: mid 90s)
2. (in Narnia) anything a member of the First Church of the One True Connector has convinced themselves that they don't personally have a need for, regardless of how many millions of other people use it every day.

Not obsolete:

1. USB A (...still used in a lot of brand new equipment)
2. HDMI (...standard for all domestic/prosumer TV equipment, with the standard still being updated for 8k/HDR etc.)
3. SD Card (...fallback even in "pro" cameras vs. multiple competing 'new' standards, standard in prosumer cameras, dashcams, sports cams, single-board computers, set-top boxes, non-Apple phones/tablets, synth modules...)

NB: 10base2 is useless in Narnia because the centaurs only have to chew through one cable to bring down the whole network.

VGA for example - really needs to die because the picture quality, resolution, refresh rate etc. is lousy compared with HDMI or DisplayPort and the connector size has been a problem for a decade or two... Apple haven't supported it since forever, and everybody stopped minding shortly after.

HDMI/DisplayPort vs. USB-C/TB3, now... hey, wait, it's just the same old HDMI/DisplayPort as before with an annoyingly different connector... no, wait, until a year or two ago it was worse because TB didn't even support DisplayPort 1.4, and now the HDMI and VGA adapters have to be active because we've lost DP++ - and even the DisplayPort adapter now needs to extra components to do something arcane about power supplies - its just more to go wrong. Oh, wait, you can use TB to connect a 5k monitor (except, last I looked, nobody was still making them) that needs 2 DP streams, or daisy chain two 4k monitors... but you only need that because TB didn't support DisplayPort 1.4 which could have done it with one stream (& Apple won't support DisplayPort MST daisy chains).

What about the other functions of the Jesus Connector?

USB? Until whatever-you-call-the-bit-of-USB4-that-is-thunderbolt came along, USB over a TB/USB-C port was exactly the same single USB 3.1 gen 1 or 2 stream that you could have enjoyed over a USB-A connector. Oh, wait, there was USB 3.2 that let you bond a pair of USB 3.1 streams thunderbolt-2 style. Did anybody ever release a device that used it? Not that it mattered - since only the fastest of SSDs need more than 5Gbps. Frankly, most of what I've got doesn't even need USB 3 - what it does need is a physical hole to plug in to. Practical upshot of USB-C for USB devices? Multiport USB-C hubs are more complex and expensive - or would be if they weren't as common as rocking horse poo because you might as well just use a type A hub. Except now I need one cable to plug a device into a hub on my desk, and a different cable/adapter to plug it directly into the laptop on the road. Magical.

Power? Brilliant - now I have to block one of the (few) data/display connections on my laptop (or carry around a hub) just to charge it... But... it's a standard cable, so I only have to carry one charger for my phone, laptop & other gizmos, and if I lose that I'll easily find another standard charger. Well, no, because (a) if I'm on a trip they'll all need charging overnight and I'm not getting out of bed 2-3 times to swap them over and (b) about the only USB-C chargers available that deliver the full 100W and can properly charge a MacBook Pro when it is in use are... Apple MacBook Pro chargers. Even one of the reasons for the return of Magsafe (if you dig back to the original leak) was to provide more current than USB-C supported (the new M1 iMac comes with a 140W brick, I believe...) As for "standard" - Apple could just make a magsafe cable with USB-A on the other end (pretty sure that the new PDC doesn't actually need a USB-C cable, but hey use a USB-C plug if you must) and have a socket on the power supply. Better all round. Or, heck, license the MagSafe design - it's not like its new any more.

Thunderbolt/USB4 (protocol): Thunderbolt good. It's only worth the extra cost if you really need that 20/40Gbps bandwidth, but still, some applications do, so it's good. Wouldn't want a computer without say, 2, TB ports. Why would I want more than 2, though, unless its some sort of Mac Pro-esque workstation that can actually process more than 80Gbps of data... Oh, wait, I know why: it's because some genius with a "universal port" fetish decided it would be a bright idea to implement it over a consumer-grade connector designed for mobile phones and make it share the physical port with completely unrelated functions like power, display output - and not even throw in a few sockets for the plain old USB2/3.0 still needed to support dozens of low-bandwidth devices. Hence my iMac currently has both its high-speed data ports occupied by USB-C-to-DisplayPort cables which should be going to proper DisplayPort sockets connected directly to the GPU. Thankfully, the 5k iMac hasn't lost the USB-A and Ethernet ports (yet) so my mouse and keyboard aren't occupying 40Gbps external PCIe sockets...

So, please stop waving around USB-C and insisting it is better because "something something universal connector something" or "I have to, because something something, plug in more displays than the GPU can usefully drive, and needing a $5 HDMI cable for the last one would ruin everything" while waving away all the problems it causes. The only place where "universal" is an advantage is on a phone where there's only space for one tiny connector, so you're going to need adapters whatever, and - surprise - that's the only place Apple hasn't used it.

- either Apple has accepted that at least initially Arm Macs will have worse I/O than their predecessors

Or it may have something to do with the fact that the M1 thrashes the pants off those predecessors when it comes to power/performance and battery life largely because it is smaller, simpler and more power efficient than its Intel counterparts... and part of those power savings come from cutting down the processor to the bone, and asking hard questions like "how many people actually need to connect more than one external display to their tiny ultraportable laptop that they bought partly because it could run all day on a single charge?

...because (something you don't seem to get) there's no point supporting more displays that the GPU can smoothly drive, esp. without active cooling, and even then, the extra circuit to provide more DP streams and switch them properly between the TB controllers takes up silicon and uses power.

Anyway, the only thing that the M1 air and MBP have lost is that (probably rarely used) display support. They've gained a thunderbolt controller, doubling the I/O bandwidth. The Mini, yes, has lost 2 TB ports - but kept the same TB bandwidth. And yes, they've turned the M1 iMac into a MacBook Air on-a-stick. I don't like it much. It still has twice the TB3 bandwidth of the old 21.5" iMac, though, and again it's not the Mac you'd buy if you wanted the performance to go with all those TB peripherals and displays you want.

Oh, yes, and remember that that external display can now be 6k (with new Apple displays rumoured).

We have no idea what the CPU/GPU specs of the 16" MBP or 5k/whatever iMac are going to be - or even if they'll be direct replacements for their predecessors. If they've gimped the I/O capabilities of the CPU it will be a bad product. If the GPU can't support at least a pair of 5k displays, it will be a bad product. Nobody is denying that. If, however, they've put 2 (double bandwidth) TB3 ports - that can be expanded via hubs - plus an extra USB-C/3.1 port, HDMI and SD then you have the same I/O bandwidth, and for a large number of users (who most likely greatly outnumber the few who will now need TB4 hubs) a far more practical choice of ports "on the road".

 

[ingambe]

Why do I have the feeling that those who demand for USB-A and HDMI to replace a Thunderbolt port the loudest are the same people who complain that Macs aren't future proof because you can't upgrade anything?

"We are professional photograph we want an SD card slot"

2010 called, it wants their memory card format back. Professional photograph mainly use CFExpress/XQD memories nowadays

 

[Stephen.R]

Seriously, do people really think that these juvenile false equivalences are somehow clever?

I dunno, probably about as clever as pretending that a $200+ non existent portable usb4 hub is an equally valid suggestion as a $7 USB type-a adapter or $15 USB-c to HDMI adapter?

I told you already I’m done discussing this with you, so congratulations on war and peace pt deux, I’m sure it’s a wonderful tale of misleading claims and biased assumptions.

 

[simon lefisch]

They never should’ve removed MagSafe. I’m always weary of tripping over my cord and pulling my MBP off the table. One of the best designs for a laptop.

 

[derekamoss]

Seriously, do people really think that these juvenile false equivalences are somehow clever?

Obsolete: (adj.)

1. (in the real world) no longer produced or used; out of date. See 10base2 coax Ethernet (RIP: mid 90s)
2. (in Narnia) anything a member of the First Church of the One True Connector has convinced themselves that they don't personally have a need for, regardless of how many millions of other people use it every day.

Not obsolete:

1. USB A (...still used in a lot of brand new equipment)
2. HDMI (...standard for all domestic/prosumer TV equipment, with the standard still being updated for 8k/HDR etc.)
3. SD Card (...fallback even in "pro" cameras vs. multiple competing 'new' standards, standard in prosumer cameras, dashcams, sports cams, single-board computers, set-top boxes, non-Apple phones/tablets, synth modules...)

NB: 10base2 is useless in Narnia because the centaurs only have to chew through one cable to bring down the whole network.

VGA for example - really needs to die because the picture quality, resolution, refresh rate etc. is lousy compared with HDMI or DisplayPort and the connector size has been a problem for a decade or two... Apple haven't supported it since forever, and everybody stopped minding shortly after.

HDMI/DisplayPort vs. USB-C/TB3, now... hey, wait, it's just the same old HDMI/DisplayPort as before with an annoyingly different connector... no, wait, until a year or two ago it was worse because TB didn't even support DisplayPort 1.4, and now the HDMI and VGA adapters have to be active because we've lost DP++ - and even the DisplayPort adapter now needs to extra components to do something arcane about power supplies - its just more to go wrong. Oh, wait, you can use TB to connect a 5k monitor (except, last I looked, nobody was still making them) that needs 2 DP streams, or daisy chain two 4k monitors... but you only need that because TB didn't support DisplayPort 1.4 which could have done it with one stream (& Apple won't support DisplayPort MST daisy chains).

What about the other functions of the Jesus Connector?

USB? Until whatever-you-call-the-bit-of-USB4-that-is-thunderbolt came along, USB over a TB/USB-C port was exactly the same single USB 3.1 gen 1 or 2 stream that you could have enjoyed over a USB-A connector. Oh, wait, there was USB 3.2 that let you bond a pair of USB 3.1 streams thunderbolt-2 style. Did anybody ever release a device that used it? Not that it mattered - since only the fastest of SSDs need more than 5Gbps. Frankly, most of what I've got doesn't even need USB 3 - what it does need is a physical hole to plug in to. Practical upshot of USB-C for USB devices? Multiport USB-C hubs are more complex and expensive - or would be if they weren't as common as rocking horse poo because you might as well just use a type A hub. Except now I need one cable to plug a device into a hub on my desk, and a different cable/adapter to plug it directly into the laptop on the road. Magical.

Power? Brilliant - now I have to block one of the (few) data/display connections on my laptop (or carry around a hub) just to charge it... But... it's a standard cable, so I only have to carry one charger for my phone, laptop & other gizmos, and if I lose that I'll easily find another standard charger. Well, no, because (a) if I'm on a trip they'll all need charging overnight and I'm not getting out of bed 2-3 times to swap them over and (b) about the only USB-C chargers available that deliver the full 100W and can properly charge a MacBook Pro when it is in use are... Apple MacBook Pro chargers. Even one of the reasons for the return of Magsafe (if you dig back to the original leak) was to provide more current than USB-C supported (the new M1 iMac comes with a 140W brick, I believe...) As for "standard" - Apple could just make a magsafe cable with USB-A on the other end (pretty sure that the new PDC doesn't actually need a USB-C cable, but hey use a USB-C plug if you must) and have a socket on the power supply. Better all round. Or, heck, license the MagSafe design - it's not like its new any more.

Thunderbolt/USB4 (protocol): Thunderbolt good. It's only worth the extra cost if you really need that 20/40Gbps bandwidth, but still, some applications do, so it's good. Wouldn't want a computer without say, 2, TB ports. Why would I want more than 2, though, unless its some sort of Mac Pro-esque workstation that can actually process more than 80Gbps of data... Oh, wait, I know why: it's because some genius with a "universal port" fetish decided it would be a bright idea to implement it over a consumer-grade connector designed for mobile phones and make it share the physical port with completely unrelated functions like power, display output - and not even throw in a few sockets for the plain old USB2/3.0 still needed to support dozens of low-bandwidth devices. Hence my iMac currently has both its high-speed data ports occupied by USB-C-to-DisplayPort cables which should be going to proper DisplayPort sockets connected directly to the GPU. Thankfully, the 5k iMac hasn't lost the USB-A and Ethernet ports (yet) so my mouse and keyboard aren't occupying 40Gbps external PCIe sockets...

So, please stop waving around USB-C and insisting it is better because "something something universal connector something" or "I have to, because something something, plug in more displays than the GPU can usefully drive, and needing a $5 HDMI cable for the last one would ruin everything" while waving away all the problems it causes. The only place where "universal" is an advantage is on a phone where there's only space for one tiny connector, so you're going to need adapters whatever, and - surprise - that's the only place Apple hasn't used it.


Or it may have something to do with the fact that the M1 thrashes the pants off those predecessors when it comes to power/performance and battery life largely because it is smaller, simpler and more power efficient than its Intel counterparts... and part of those power savings come from cutting down the processor to the bone, and asking hard questions like "how many people actually need to connect more than one external display to their tiny ultraportable laptop that they bought partly because it could run all day on a single charge?

...because (something you don't seem to get) there's no point supporting more displays that the GPU can smoothly drive, esp. without active cooling, and even then, the extra circuit to provide more DP streams and switch them properly between the TB controllers takes up silicon and uses power.

Anyway, the only thing that the M1 air and MBP have lost is that (probably rarely used) display support. They've gained a thunderbolt controller, doubling the I/O bandwidth. The Mini, yes, has lost 2 TB ports - but kept the same TB bandwidth. And yes, they've turned the M1 iMac into a MacBook Air on-a-stick. I don't like it much. It still has twice the TB3 bandwidth of the old 21.5" iMac, though, and again it's not the Mac you'd buy if you wanted the performance to go with all those TB peripherals and displays you want.

Oh, yes, and remember that that external display can now be 6k (with new Apple displays rumoured).

We have no idea what the CPU/GPU specs of the 16" MBP or 5k/whatever iMac are going to be - or even if they'll be direct replacements for their predecessors. If they've gimped the I/O capabilities of the CPU it will be a bad product. If the GPU can't support at least a pair of 5k displays, it will be a bad product. Nobody is denying that. If, however, they've put 2 (double bandwidth) TB3 ports - that can be expanded via hubs - plus an extra USB-C/3.1 port, HDMI and SD then you have the same I/O bandwidth, and for a large number of users (who most likely greatly outnumber the few who will now need TB4 hubs) a far more practical choice of ports "on the road".

I think you took his response a little TOO serious bro, lol. Drink some calm it down Kool aid and everything will be ok. I'm 37 and I find his "juvenile false equivalences" quite humorous. Also who uses that term lol. I am an English major and fix people's speeches all the time to make them sound more smart and I would lol if someone put that in. Sometimes people just try to hard to sound like they have a "huge understanding of sounding smart by using clever words" or as normal people say just using big words to sound smart....

 

[derekamoss]

I dunno, probably about as clever as pretending that a $200+ non existent portable usb4 hub is an equally valid suggestion as a $7 USB type-a adapter or $15 USB-c to HDMI adapter?

I told you already I’m done discussing this with you, so congratulations on war and peace pt deux, I’m sure it’s a wonderful tale of misleading claims and biased assumptions.

I found your "juvenile false equivalences" actually quite clever!

 

[Tozovac]

Why do I have the feeling that those who demand for USB-A and HDMI to replace a Thunderbolt port the loudest are the same people who complain that Macs aren't future proof because you can't upgrade anything?

Probably and if so they should definitely be ashamed of such absurd thoughts.