Strategy Analytics: Apple Shipped an Estimated 2.5 Million Fewer iPhones in China in 2018 Than in 2017

[Abazigal]

In any forum you are going to have opposing views, its just a fact of life and not worth worrying about.

The first thing the lecturer of my “evaluating academic arguments” course in university told the class was “An argument should not only be right, but it should also be right for the correct reasons”.

I am fine with opposing arguments. I am not fine with opposing arguments that are clearly borne out of hate and frustration. You have all seen the mob-mentality this tends to result in here, where the first few pages are basically members all chanting the same refrain “F Apple!” over and over again.

It’s one thing to criticise the iphone for pricing or design decisions that you don’t like. It is another thing to assume that Apple is doomed simply because it did something you didn’t like. I get it. Many people here don’t like Apple’s recent moves, I get that. It shouldn’t affect them from evaluating the merits of what Apple does in an objective light.

 

[BigBoy2018]

The first thing the lecturer of my “evaluating academic arguments” course in university told the class was “An argument should not only be right, but it should also be right for the correct reasons”.

I am fine with opposing arguments. I am not fine with opposing arguments that are clearly borne out of hate and frustration. You have all seen the mob-mentality this tends to result in here, where the first few pages are basically members all chanting the same refrain “F Apple!” over and over again.

It’s one thing to criticise the iphone for pricing or design decisions that you don’t like. It is another thing to assume that Apple is doomed simply because it did something you didn’t like. I get it. Many people here don’t like Apple’s recent moves, I get that. It shouldn’t affect them from evaluating the merits of what Apple does in an objective light.

It’s called a loss of confidence. And it’s a very logical cognitive reaction:

The more a person or entity (company in this case) screws up, the more you look at their next move with a wary eye.
That’s not being biased or hysterical, that’s just common sense. People have lost a level of confidence in Apples judgement. A loss for of confidence thev’ve EARNED with their recent missteps.

There’s a well worn saying: “insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results”. It’s a great saying because there’s truth to it. The more we see Apple screw up: us sane people start to wonder if this next thing they do (whatever it is) will be another fumble.

Make sense?

 

[Abazigal]

It’s called a loss of confidence. And it’s a very logical cognitive reaction:

The more a person or entity (company in this case) screws up, the more you look at their next move with a wary eye.
That’s not being biased or hysterical, that’s just common sense. People have lost a level of confidence in Apples judgement. A loss for of confidence thev’ve EARNED with their recent missteps.

There is a fine line between being reasonably skeptical of Apple’s next step, and outright hysteria at everything they do.

While Apple’s Mac efforts have been quite lacklustre, there is no doubt that they are absolutely killing it on the wearables front, with the Apple Watch and airpods being insanely popular. And when you look deeper, you start to understand why. There is only so much Apple can do to push the Mac forward in an age of mobile, while tablets and wearables hold so much untapped potential with regards to how Apple can make them more personal.

As such, I am not surprised that the Mac line appears to be stagnating, while Apple continues to forge ahead in all the other areas like wearables and health (which is something Apple will have the advantage in, given their emphasis on privacy and integrated platforms).

Expect this trend to continue moving forward. That’s why my last Mac purchase was a 2017 5k iMac (coming from a 2011 imac), and I expect that to be my only Mac purchase for the next couple of years. Meanwhile, I got a 11” iPad Pro last year (together with the Smart Keyboard and Apple Pencil), and am looking forward to picking up a new Apple Watch, airpods 2, AirPower when they get released this year, and these are just the products I am aware of.

I might hold on to my 8+ though; we will just have to see what the 2019 iphone has in store for us.

 

[I7guy]

It’s called a loss of confidence. And it’s a very logical cognitive reaction:

The more a person or entity (company in this case) screws up, the more you look at their next move with a wary eye.
That’s not being biased or hysterical, that’s just common sense. People have lost a level of confidence in Apples judgement. A loss for of confidence thev’ve EARNED with their recent missteps.

There’s a well worn saying: “insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results”. It’s a great saying because there’s truth to it. The more we see Apple screw up: us sane people start to wonder if this next thing they do (whatever it is) will be another fumble.

Make sense?

With 250 million customers I would be very surprised if there was 100% agreement on Apples’ moves. To me that is just common sense.

Some of us, maybe many of us don’t really agree that Apple has “screwed up”.

I think for some there is some cognitive dissonance at play here.

 

[Peperino]

To put it bluntly, it’s only the economists who are ignorant of Apple’s user’s base that is clamouring for a cheaper iphone. In reality, this concept won’t work. Apple’s user base only want the best (or what was once the best), are willing to pay for it, and will not accept any substitutes.

I disagree. And you are wrong.
Facts speaks otherwise. If Apple actually is cutting production, and lowering the prices in China and Japan is because fewer people are willing to pay for expensive phones. In addition they are trying to push for a trade in program that is a scam, you might as well sell it online yourself. It is not just the economist that want a cheaper phone.

In the past all new Apple products use to be the same price or a little bit more expensive. When you are raising iPhone prices over 100% in 3-4 years period people will not be upgrading anymore it is greedy to say the least. Especially considering that for the same price you can buy a Macbook Pro.

Maybe in 2019 they can let you trade your car for a new iPhone 2019.

What’s even sadder is that everyone is rushing to pin them on whatever Apple is doing that they don’t agree with. Ignoring that there may also be perfectly legitimate reasons for them, such as a possible impending recession in China, or that India may simply need to be written off in the short run because its economy simply can’t support iphone pricing.

I do not see the problem of bringing awareness about Apple problems, lack of innovation and quality control.
Look at the keyboard on the Macbook Pro 2016, and the latest iPad Pro bending feature...

I have been using Apple for over 25 years, and praise them when many times. But after Jobs was gone, product development and quality went down tremendously.

I agree that Apple seems to have screwed the pooch with the MacBook Pro, and I am personally not too worried, because it was clear to me right from the start that Apple’s heart was never in the Mac line to begin with.

It’s clear where Apple’s future lies in. Wearables, health, AR, self-driving cars. Look to this, and you will see that Apple’s future is as bright as ever.

You have said that before. And you are wrong again. Although wearables are a nice addition to Apple's product line, especially the Watch, but you cannot do any productivity on wearables whatsoever. So computers will NOT go away.
you still need to write letters, design, video, etc... you cannot do that in an watch.

And again it is extremely worrisome the path Apple is taking since the entire computer line up is outdated, overpriced and underspec.
Furthermore, not only it is pathetic that are obscenely raising prices for no reason or innovation (like Macbook Air and Pro) but the lack of innovation and quality has been on a steep decline over the last 10 years.
IN addition, they are building the products so they cannot be upgraded and more difficult to fix creating more trash. So, so much for Apples green claims about recycling. They are completely disregarding and sacrificing function to make bad designs. Who cares how much thinner you make a computer if it is useless?

If you look at all the products you see why it is worrisome.
Macbook Pro 2016 and later all have been a disaster both in design and quality.
Mac Pro - (trashcan) Another design failure.
Macbook Air- Same thing after 3 years.
iMac- Not been updated in 10 years.
iMac Pro- Look for yourself how badly it is designed

iPad Pro- New bending feature.
Mac Mini- After 4 years, same design and 70% more expensive.

What is sad, is that Apple arrogance of design mistakes are NOT being acknowledged and fixed.

How the future looks promising... I do not see it.
If the product category that has raise the most is adaptors and dongles, that speaks for itself how bad a design is.

Apple turned into a luxury Phone/ dongle company

 

[Ghost31]

Apple is the best.

Ok lol

 

[BigBoy2018]

I disagree. And you are wrong.
Facts speaks otherwise. If Apple actually is cutting production, and lowering the prices in China and Japan is because fewer people are willing to pay for expensive phones. In addition they are trying to push for a trade in program that is a scam, you might as well sell it online yourself. It is not just the economist that want a cheaper phone.

In the past all new Apple products use to be the same price or a little bit more expensive. When you are raising iPhone prices over 100% in 3-4 years period people will not be upgrading anymore it is greedy to say the least. Especially considering that for the same price you can buy a Macbook Pro.

Maybe in 2019 they can let you trade your car for a new iPhone 2019.



I do not see the problem of bringing awareness about Apple problems, lack of innovation and quality control.
Look at the keyboard on the Macbook Pro 2016, and the latest iPad Pro bending feature...

I have been using Apple for over 25 years, and praise them when many times. But after Jobs was gone, product development and quality went down tremendously.



You have said that before. And you are wrong again. Although wearables are a nice addition to Apple's product line, especially the Watch, but you cannot do any productivity on wearables whatsoever. So computers will NOT go away.
you still need to write letters, design, video, etc... you cannot do that in an watch.

And again it is extremely worrisome the path Apple is taking since the entire computer line up is outdated, overpriced and underspec.
Furthermore, not only it is pathetic that are obscenely raising prices for no reason or innovation (like Macbook Air and Pro) but the lack of innovation and quality has been on a steep decline over the last 10 years.
IN addition, they are building the products so they cannot be upgraded and more difficult to fix creating more trash. So, so much for Apples green claims about recycling. They are completely disregarding and sacrificing function to make bad designs. Who cares how much thinner you make a computer if it is useless?

If you look at all the products you see why it is worrisome.
Macbook Pro 2016 and later all have been a disaster both in design and quality.
Mac Pro - (trashcan) Another design failure.
Macbook Air- Same thing after 3 years.
iMac- Not been updated in 10 years.
iMac Pro- Look for yourself how badly it is designed

iPad Pro- New bending feature.
Mac Mini- After 4 years, same design and 70% more expensive.

What is sad, is that Apple arrogance of design mistakes are NOT being acknowledged and fixed.

How the future looks promising... I do not see it.
If the product category that has raise the most is adaptors and dongles, that speaks for itself how bad a design is.

Apple turned into a luxury Phone/ dongle company

Nailed it. Thank you for detailing to the endless Apple booster abigazal (or whatever the hell his handle is) why his logic falls flat. Though I’m sure he’ll have another replyl, a little below this, why he’s right and we’re all wrong. Yawn.
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There is a fine line between being reasonably skeptical of Apple’s next step, and outright hysteria at everything they do.

While Apple’s Mac efforts have been quite lacklustre, there is no doubt that they are absolutely killing it on the wearables front, with the Apple Watch and airpods being insanely popular. And when you look deeper, you start to understand why. There is only so much Apple can do to push the Mac forward in an age of mobile, while tablets and wearables hold so much untapped potential with regards to how Apple can make them more personal.

As such, I am not surprised that the Mac line appears to be stagnating, while Apple continues to forge ahead in all the other areas like wearables and health (which is something Apple will have the advantage in, given their emphasis on privacy and integrated platforms).

Expect this trend to continue moving forward. That’s why my last Mac purchase was a 2017 5k iMac (coming from a 2011 imac), and I expect that to be my only Mac purchase for the next couple of years. Meanwhile, I got a 11” iPad Pro last year (together with the Smart Keyboard and Apple Pencil), and am looking forward to picking up a new Apple Watch, airpods 2, AirPower when they get released this year, and these are just the products I am aware of.

I might hold on to my 8+ though; we will just have to see what the 2019 iphone has in store for us.

Here’s an admission: I’m biased against Apple (a little, I still love some of their products). I’ll admit I’m biased.

On the other hand, I’ve seen you enough in these threads and you more than anyone else are the one who seems to come swooping into any thread where there’s some negative posts about Apple and every. single.time. you take up a defense of Apple. Every. Single. Time.
Yet while I’ll admit I have some negative bias against them, I would rather wait for rain in Death Valley than to wait for you to admit your bias in FAVOR of Apple.
You’re just ‘mr. common sense and fairness’ all the way through. (Must be nice to have such a childlike fantasy of your own self - I guess I should envy you),

 

[dilbert99]

Here’s an admission: I’m biased against Apple (a little, I still love some of their products). I’ll admit I’m biased.

I am biased against Apple too in the choices they make and I currently have at least 16 Apple products in my household.

I think Abizagal is more pro Apple than I am negative against Apple.

Those that are really pro Apple, will defend it to the hilt and mostly will not acknowledge the Apple makes choices that piss people off. They think that everyone is a troll against Apple even though they might well have a lot of Apple products.

 

[ipponrg]

I am biased against Apple too in the choices they make and I currently have at least 16 Apple products in my household.

I think Abizagal is more pro Apple than I am negative against Apple.

Those that are really pro Apple, will defend it to the hilt and mostly will not acknowledge the Apple makes choices that piss people off. They think that everyone is a troll against Apple even though they might well have a lot of Apple products.

To be fair, many of these really pro Apple users are light users. So it’s somewhat understandable albeit comical when they argue how great Apple is when they don’t do any deeply involved work.

 

[Abazigal]

To be fair, many of these really pro Apple users are light users. So it’s somewhat understandable albeit comical when they argue how great Apple is when they don’t do any deeply involved work.

I don't need to be a pro user in order to love my Apple Watch and AirPods.

100 million Macs amongst an estimated installed base of 1.4 billion devices. Apple isn't, and hasn't been a computer company for a very long time now.

You have said that before. And you are wrong again. Although wearables are a nice addition to Apple's product line, especially the Watch, but you cannot do any productivity on wearables whatsoever. So computers will NOT go away.
you still need to write letters, design, video, etc... you cannot do that in an watch.

That I can't perform productivity tasks on an Apple Watch is a red herring, honestly. Apple as a company is dedicated towards making technology more personal and intimate for the end user, not necessarily more productive. That's why they spent so much time marketing Animoji and AR on their phones, while I don't think we will see something like Samsung's Dex come to the iPhone anytime soon.

I don't think they are losing any sleep at night at the fact that I can't fill in excel spreadsheets or edit videos on my watch.

I have also never said that Macs (or computers for that matter) are going away, but it's clear where Apple's priorities and attention currently resides. The Mac will still be around in the future, but it will continue to occupy a niche role at Apple, and its refresh cycle will lengthen accordingly to reflect its place in this new world order (ie: higher prices, longer times in between updates). I am honestly still surprised that Apple even committed to a new Mac Pro in the first place; I would have just left it at the iMac Pro.

Plus, there is nothing stopping people from performing all these tasks on a non-Mac computer. If I go with the numbers I posted above, there are 9 times as many active iPhone users are there are Mac users. This means that roughly 8 out of 9 iPhone users are not using Macs anyways, and they are presumably getting along just fine.

It's clear why Apple is going the way it is. The iPhone is its best selling product. It's only logical that Apple uses its dominant position in mobile to push all associated product categories forward. That's the AirPods, Apple Watch, iPad, music streaming, even the rumoured AR glasses and the upcoming news and video streaming services, because all these tie in more closely with iPhone users than Mac users.

Look, I like my iMac as much as the next person here (though I do wish sometimes I had sprung more cash for a larger SSD). But I am not blind to the dwindling level of importance it plays in Apple's future product roadmap. So what I have simply chosen to do is to gradually decouple myself from what I feel are products Apple is clearly not going to focus as much attention on (ie: the Mac), while embracing the products that they clearly will devote most, if not all their energies on supporting (mobile, wearables).

That's what I believe will result in the best user experience possible for me. And I will say that my decision has been working out great so far for me.

I can only wish you guys all the best in your own continued fight against Apple in this regard, because I don't think it's a fight you can win, but who knows - you just might prove me wrong.

 

[dilbert99]

I can only wish you guys all the best in your own continued fight against Apple in this regard, because I don't think it's a fight you can win, but who knows - you just might prove me wrong.

You paint people as if they are in a fight against Apple which I don't believe to be the case.

Just because people bitch about the removal of ports/jacks, the soldering of SSDs, increasing the prices and so on doesn't mean they are in a fight against Apple. A lot of us are Apple users who will simply complain when Apple does something they don't like.

People can love using Apple products and bitch against them at the same time. I know I do. Doesn't mean I am in a fight against Apple.

I think you like to think of things in black and white, one is either pro or anti Apple.
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Look, I like my iMac as much as the next person here (though I do wish sometimes I had sprung more cash for a larger SSD).

This is one of the things I hate about Apple. They could have easily have put the SSD on an M2 daughter board and given people the chance to upgrade the SSD size as their needs change and also if the machine dies, and your backup is a few days old, you still have access to the most up to date data because you can pull the SSD out.

It is for these sorts of poor decisions that people complain in these forums.

 

[Abazigal]

This is one of the things I hate about Apple. They could have easily have put the SSD on an M2 daughter board and given people the chance to upgrade the SSD size as their needs change and also if the machine dies, and your backup is a few days old, you still have access to the most up to date data because you can pull the SSD out.

Today, I learned that there is such a thing as a daughterboard.
[doublepost=1548585930][/doublepost]

You paint people as if they are in a fight against Apple which I don't believe to be the case.

Just because people bitch about the removal of ports/jacks, the soldering of SSDs, increasing the prices and so on doesn't mean they are in a fight against Apple. A lot of us are Apple users who will simply complain when Apple does something they don't like.

People can love using Apple products and bitch against them at the same time. I know I do. Doesn't mean I am in a fight against Apple.

I think you like to think of things in black and white, one is either pro or anti Apple.

You are right. I guess it is all too easy to fall into that trap at times when you load macrumours in the morning and the first thing you see is page after page of negative comments. That said, I do believe that there is such a thing as "Apple derangement syndrome" where the mere mention of Apple in an article causes people to fly into a frothing rage.

One thing I would like to point out in my defence - it's not that I am against people here complaining, but that I feel that the tendency seems to trend towards automatically assuming the worst of Apple. For example, when Apple replaced laptop ports with USB C, I don't believe that it's a cynical attempt to sell more adaptors. It's because Apple believes in the future and the utility of USB-C, and want to push all users towards this.

Likewise, when products cost more, is it because they cost more to design and manufacture, or is it a blatant cash grab by Apple? I guess the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

I get that the MacBook Pro is a very divisive product right from day one. I do feel that Apple has indeed screwed it up to the point where even I can find no excuses for them, and it must be very frustrating for affected customers who have to keep taking their laptops to the apple store for the umpteenth time for servicing, but I do ultimately understand why Apple went the way they did (or at least I think I do). It's clearly modelled to take inspiration from the iPad (everything from USB-C to removal of MagSafe to butterfly keyboards to the Touch Bar), but the execution admittedly left a lot to be desired and after three years, it doesn't seem like Apple is any closer to solving those issues.

 

[stylinexpat]

I forgot to check to see if they are offering interest free financing on purchases now in China as well like they are now doing in Thailand to try and increase sales numbers. I was in China last week but did not pay attention to this. What did catch my eye though in Bangkok was the low number as I walked by products at Apple shop only to see that this number was based on a monthly finance plane for 10 months interest free. Apple partnered up with two local banks to do this in Thailand. Will check to see if China and Hong Kong are also doing this now. They are basically willing to give you a longer time to pay for it without interest but no discount.

 

[BigBoy2018]

Today, I learned that there is such a thing as a daughterboard.

I don't need to be a pro user in order to love my Apple Watch and AirPods.

And done.

With those two bits of information ... 1) the main apple products you like are the AirPods and the watch 2) you know very little about computers ... I now wonder why I bothered responding to you in the first place.

Here's the thing that baffles me though: If you're such a light user how do you presume to come down so often and so hard on people who more deeply use, and are more knowledgable about other Apple products?

It's almost like your attitude is this: "I got my AirPods and my watch ... so the rest of you people can shut up. They gave me the two things I care about so how dare you find fault with other things they're doing".

Frickin' hilarious.

 

[stylinexpat]

Today, I learned that there is such a thing as a daughterboard.
[doublepost=1548585930][/doublepost]
You are right. I guess it is all too easy to fall into that trap at times when you load macrumours in the morning and the first thing you see is page after page of negative comments. That said, I do believe that there is such a thing as "Apple derangement syndrome" where the mere mention of Apple in an article causes people to fly into a frothing rage.

One thing I would like to point out in my defence - it's not that I am against people here complaining, but that I feel that the tendency seems to trend towards automatically assuming the worst of Apple. For example, when Apple replaced laptop ports with USB C, I don't believe that it's a cynical attempt to sell more adaptors. It's because Apple believes in the future and the utility of USB-C, and want to push all users towards this.

Likewise, when products cost more, is it because they cost more to design and manufacture, or is it a blatant cash grab by Apple? I guess the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

I get that the MacBook Pro is a very divisive product right from day one. I do feel that Apple has indeed screwed it up to the point where even I can find no excuses for them, and it must be very frustrating for affected customers who have to keep taking their laptops to the apple store for the umpteenth time for servicing, but I do ultimately understand why Apple went the way they did (or at least I think I do). It's clearly modelled to take inspiration from the iPad (everything from USB-C to removal of MagSafe to butterfly keyboards to the Touch Bar), but the execution admittedly left a lot to be desired and after three years, it doesn't seem like Apple is any closer to solving those issues.

Actually accessory Manufacturers in China and Taiwan love it when companies like Apple remove such features like the MagSafe from their computers as it creates a new market for assessory manufactures to sell accessories for Apple products. Standard feature pretty much became an accessory after. Good for some and bad for others depending on how you wish to look at it

 

[BigBoy2018]

I do feel that Apple has indeed screwed it up to the point where even I can find no excuses for them, and it must be very frustrating for affected customers who have to keep taking their laptops to the apple store for the umpteenth time for servicing, but I do ultimately understand why Apple went the way they did (or at least I think I do). It's clearly modelled to take inspiration from the iPad (everything from USB-C to removal of MagSafe to butterfly keyboards to the Touch Bar), but the execution admittedly left a lot to be desired and after three years, it doesn't seem like Apple is any closer to solving those issues.

You forgot to mention 'flexgate', but thank you for finally writing something I agree with.

 

[ipponrg]

Likewise, when products cost more, is it because they cost more to design and manufacture, or is it a blatant cash grab by Apple? I guess the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

There are different narratives here that can be depicted depending on which side you are on.

When Apple talks about record setting profit, most people will be skeptical as to how you arrive at record setting profits when they increased the cost of their products across the board.

I don't need to be a pro user in order to love my Apple Watch and AirPods.

100 million Macs amongst an estimated installed base of 1.4 billion devices. Apple isn't, and hasn't been a computer company for a very long time now.

Which is perfectly fine for you.

But it’s not just about you. You need to be an actual in-depth user to understand (some) people’s gripes about the current state.

 

[I7guy]

And done.

With those two bits of information ... 1) the main apple products you like are the AirPods and the watch 2) you know very little about computers ... I now wonder why I bothered responding to you in the first place.

Here's the thing that baffles me though: If you're such a light user how do you presume to come down so often and so hard on people who more deeply use, and are more knowledgable about other Apple products?

It's almost like your attitude is this: "I got my AirPods and my watch ... so the rest of you people can shut up. They gave me the two things I care about so how dare you find fault with other things they're doing".

Frickin' hilarious.

On the flip side, it seems to be that people who gripe about the Mac for various reasons, come down on the entirety of Apple. Different corner of the same side of the same coin.
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To be fair, many of these really pro Apple users are light users. So it’s somewhat understandable albeit comical when they argue how great Apple is when they don’t do any deeply involved work.

You mean...don’t use a Mac? Our house has iPhones, iPads, Apple Watch, Apple TV and 3 MacBook pros.

For my own use cases I have my own opinions.

 

[dilbert99]

You are right. I guess it is all too easy to fall into that trap at times when you load macrumours in the morning and the first thing you see is page after page of negative comments.

It is understandable any story that has a negative headline is always going to be filled with negative comments followed by fans discrediting such comments.
People just have to not take it to hearts so much which is hard to do.

That said, I do believe that there is such a thing as "Apple derangement syndrome" where the mere mention of Apple in an article causes people to fly into a frothing rage.

It also works in reverse, Apple fans exhibit "Apple Rose Colour Glasses Syndrome" who will defend apple no matter what

One thing I would like to point out in my defence - it's not that I am against people here complaining, but that I feel that the tendency seems to trend towards automatically assuming the worst of Apple. For example, when Apple replaced laptop ports with USB C, I don't believe that it's a cynical attempt to sell more adaptors. It's because Apple believes in the future and the utility of USB-C, and want to push all users towards this.

This is a typical issue that people have with Apple and why they are so polarising. They make change hard. They don't support you through the change process - all very abrupt.

Likewise, when products cost more, is it because they cost more to design and manufacture, or is it a blatant cash grab by Apple? I guess the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

I would disagree. Apple is pushing the price envelope at a time when exchange rates are bad against the dollar so there is a double whammy and double the rage...

I get that the MacBook Pro is a very divisive product right from day one.

I personally loved my macbook pro's, I now have a dell xps because I refuse to pay the price increases that we have seen in the macbook line, the xps is not as good in some areas but better in others. Probably on balance I would rather have the macbook.

I do feel that Apple has indeed screwed it up to the point where even I can find no excuses for them, and it must be very frustrating for affected customers who have to keep taking their laptops to the apple store for the umpteenth time for servicing, but I do ultimately understand why Apple went the way they did (or at least I think I do). It's clearly modelled to take inspiration from the iPad (everything from USB-C to removal of MagSafe to butterfly keyboards to the Touch Bar), but the execution admittedly left a lot to be desired and after three years, it doesn't seem like Apple is any closer to solving those issues.

I do miss the magsafe. And would have missed all the other changes to the macbook had I not changes to the dell XPS and still have all the things that apple took away.

 

[Peperino]

While Apple’s Mac efforts have been quite lacklustre, there is no doubt that they are absolutely killing it on the wearables front, with the Apple Watch and airpods being insanely popular. And when you look deeper, you start to understand why. There is only so much Apple can do to push the Mac forward in an age of mobile, while tablets and wearables hold so much untapped potential with regards to how Apple can make them more personal.

As such, I am not surprised that the Mac line appears to be stagnating, while Apple continues to forge ahead in all the other areas like wearables and health (which is something Apple will have the advantage in, given their emphasis on privacy and integrated platforms).

It is pathetic that you insist with the wearables speech. The only wearable Apple is doing is watch and airpods. What are "All other areas"? Healthcare is a subproduct related to the watch. It is not a separate product category. It is actually more like a service area.
Watches are great, airpods meh. There was a Macrumors comparison between airpods and Jabras and people actually liked better the Jabras.

Wearables are maybe 5 to 8% of sales, if. And you still insist with the wearables.

Apple is (or was) a larger company that do computers, phones and tablets. And if the entire rest of the line up is a disaster, then we should be worried. There is no doubt that Apple lack of innovation, design and quality control has been tremendous.

What is more worrisome is that Apple is doing nothing to fix it. And in addition is obscenely raising prices for no particular reason or innovation that justify the increase. And to top that, they are trying to rip Apple customers even more, doing a new design that have soldered RAM and SSD soldered to the Logic board, making computers non-upgradable. But worse than that, is that they are forcing the entire Apple customers to upgrade the internal SSD at Apple ridiculously expensive prices. So basically, they do not care about design, they are simply trying to milk more money.

If Mac Pro was a failure, then fire the designers.
if Macbook Pro 2016+ were massive failures why no one was fired?
How many more product failures Apple need to have in order to realize they have a massive design problem issue.
And then again the brand new iPAD Pro comes with a brand new bendable feature. So much for the new Apple quality control.

 

[Baymowe335]

To me, we have all the evidence we need. Apple was IN FRONT of this and only posted a 5% revenue decline. They blamed China.

NVIDIA just revised guidance DOWN 18%, and guess what? Blamed China.

Caterpillar just blamed China for the worst earnings in 10 years.

Shares of Nvidia tanked 15 percent at the market open Monday after the company lowered its revenue guidance for the fourth quarter citing “deteriorating macroeconomic conditions, particularly in China.”

 

[I7guy]

...There is no doubt that Apple lack of innovation, design and quality control has been tremendous...

The definition of innovation, design and what constitutes quality control appears to be fluid.

 

[Peperino]

The definition of innovation, design and what constitutes quality control appears to be fluid.

Innovation/ Design- The entire computer line up is outdated and overpriced.
What true innovation has been done in the last 10 years?? None.
Mac Pro- A failure
Macbook Pro- 2016+ - Another massive failure
iMac - External design not updated in the past 10 years.
Mac Mini - After 4 years of not upgrading, same old design and 70% more expensive.
Macbook Air- 20% more expensive without, anyting that will justify the increase.

Except the watch, which is great, I do not see a product that has been innovative.

30 Inconsistencies

DESIGN-
new design that have soldered RAM and SSD soldered to the Logic board, making computers non-upgradable and more difficult to fix. But worse than that, is that they are forcing the entire Apple customers to upgrade the internal SSD at Apple ridiculously expensive prices. So basically, they do not care about design, they are simply trying to milk more money out of its customers.

Quality control-
Macbook Pro 2016- Major problems with keyboard.
iPad Pro- New Bending feature that Apple fails to recognize.

Shady issues about MacBook Pro

I guess we do not need to define what constitutes overpriced...

 

[gavroche]

95% of the people here don’t get it.

Are you one of the 5%?

 

[I7guy]

Innovation/ Design- The entire computer line up is outdated and overpriced.
What true innovation has been done in the last 10 years?? None.
Mac Pro- A failure
Macbook Pro- 2016+ - Another massive failure
iMac - External design not updated in the past 10 years.
Mac Mini - After 4 years of not upgrading, same old design and 70% more expensive.
Macbook Air- 20% more expensive without, anyting that will justify the increase.

Except the watch, which is great, I do not see a product that has been innovative.

30 Inconsistencies

DESIGN-
new design that have soldered RAM and SSD soldered to the Logic board, making computers non-upgradable and more difficult to fix. But worse than that, is that they are forcing the entire Apple customers to upgrade the internal SSD at Apple ridiculously expensive prices. So basically, they do not care about design, they are simply trying to milk more money out of its customers.

Quality control-
Macbook Pro 2016- Major problems with keyboard.
iPad Pro- New Bending feature that Apple fails to recognize.

Shady issues about MacBook Pro

I guess we do not need to define what constitutes overpriced...

So other than iPhone, HomePod, AirPods, Apple TV and Apple Watch there has not been any innovation and poor qc.

Hence the definitions of innovation are fluid.