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Apple went from a design with 7 ports (2xUSB, 2xTB2, SD, Magsafe, HDMI), to a design with 4 ports. How is that better?

A much more useful design would have simply to swap the 2xTB2 ports for 2xUSB-C.

People with USBA and HDMI cables/connections would still be happy
People with SD cards would still be happy.
People with Magsafe adapters (At home/work) will still be happy.
People with new USB-C chargers will be happy
People with 4K/5K displays (up to two of them!) will be happy.

What would not be to like?

You don’t charge your iPad when you are using it. You typically only charge it at night before you go to bed, and in this context, MagSafe is redundant.

Apple wants you to use your laptop like you use your other mobile devices.

Likewise, with USB C, your ports can be whatever you want them to be (with the right adaptor), so MagSafe would simply be using up a port space.
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I bet your DVI monitor setup looks funny. Monoprice makes a $29 USB-C to DVI/USB/USB-C dongle. You could hook up that new Macbook with a single USB-C connection, vs that mess you have.
Yeah - we are using adapters/screen that we already had. The USBC-HDMI adapter seems flaky anyway, so probably going to have to replace...sigh. I'd buy a single USBC-DVI cable, except that loses us a USB port - leaving only one, which is needed for power!
I hate these stupid new machines with such a lack of ports, and I'm kind of embarrassed now that I even bought one for my staff member. £1500 and it can't connect to ANY of the free-standing displays we have, or any of our USB peripherals.
 
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Apple went from a design with 7 ports (2xUSB, 2xTB2, SD, Magsafe, HDMI), to a design with 4 ports. How is that better?

A much more useful design would have simply to swap the 2xTB2 ports for 2xUSB-C.

People with USBA and HDMI cables/connections would still be happy
People with SD cards would still be happy.
People with Magsafe adapters (At home/work) will still be happy.
People with new USB-C chargers will be happy
People with 4K/5K displays (up to two of them!) will be happy.

What would not be to like?


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Yeah - we are using adapters/screen that we already had. The USBC-HDMI adapter seems flaky anyway, so probably going to have to replace...sigh. I'd buy a single USBC-DVI cable, except that loses us a USB port - leaving only one, which is needed for power!
I hate these stupid new machines with such a lack of ports, and I'm kind of embarrassed now that I even bought one for my staff member. £1500 and it can't connect to ANY of the free-standing displays we have, or any of our USB peripherals.

I had to just get the new £2700 MacBook Pro. It arrived, looked nice, is fast and cooler than old one etc...

But within an hour I wanted to use a USB memory stick and was screwed. I had forgot to order the USB adaptor ( it doesn't come to mind because now everything has a USB connector.

I can see why they did it, for the depth of the new casing, but they should have at least included a USB adaptor with it.

Whats more is that in the older MBP's they did give you at least one dongle, depending on the tech at the time, so your new laptop could keep working.
 
Whats more is that in the older MBP's they did give you at least one dongle, depending on the tech at the time, so your new laptop could keep working.
Yes, back in the mid-late 2000s, every MBPro came with a DVI-VGA adapter for example. I think this got phased out though after the move to mDP. Certainly that was the moment that I had to start dropping £30 on adapters for VGA projection...which seemed to frequently get lost.

In principle, USB-C, will, in the future invalidate the need for all dongles. I think that is great...but I think we are still a good 3-4 years away until USB-C is the norm, and much longer for HDMI to be completely replaced (if ever).

---

There is one other thing that sucks about the new MBPro: the power adapter. It no longer has those really useful lugs that you could use to wrap the cable up neat and tidily whilst travelling. Why? It's now just a big tangled mess. And no charging indicator. :-(
 
At least for me Apple got practically everything right with new MBPs: I love the thinness, the lightness, the display, the trackpad, the keyboard, the speakers, Touch Bar, the ports and don't get me even started with the wicked fast 2 TB flash storage.

As far as connectivity is concerned I have LG 5K display, scanner, printer, 2 TB hard drive, mouse, keyboard, track ball, CD drive, CD card reader, Micro Card reader, HDMI port, Ethernet port and charger attached to my MBP with a SINGLE CABLE. The trick: all pripherals are connected to LG 5K display which is attached to MBP with one TB3 cable.
 
As far as connectivity is concerned I have LG 5K display, scanner, printer, 2 TB hard drive, mouse, keyboard, track ball, CD drive, CD card reader, Micro Card reader, HDMI port, Ethernet port and charger attached to my MBP with a SINGLE CABLE. The trick: all pripherals are connected to LG 5K display which is attached to MBP with one TB3 cable.
I'm not disputing that these aren't powerful systems. Your solution is great - until you need to move your laptop somewhere else...
I'm about to order a mini-hub with USBA, HDMI, ethernet, etc on it, but I am very conscious that the user will probably need one of these for work and for home - or will have to start taking it back and forth. This is what bugs me. The computer was expensive (compared to past MBPros). And on top of that we're having to purchase additional equipment to make it compatible....ports that used to be included within the basic spec for free. If prices had gone down - and if Apple would make a useful hub that they would stand by (i.e. included with AppleCare like the rest of the laptop), I'd not be so bothered. But now I'm wasting time trying to find a decent third party solution for things that I didn't use to have to even think about. That is a completely un-Apple experience.

There was once a reason for paying for the premium: simplicity "it just works". I no longer agree.
 
At least for me Apple got practically everything right with new MBPs: I love the thinness, the lightness, the display, the trackpad, the keyboard, the speakers, Touch Bar, the ports and don't get me even started with the wicked fast 2 TB flash storage.

As far as connectivity is concerned I have LG 5K display, scanner, printer, 2 TB hard drive, mouse, keyboard, track ball, CD drive, CD card reader, Micro Card reader, HDMI port, Ethernet port and charger attached to my MBP with a SINGLE CABLE. The trick: all pripherals are connected to LG 5K display which is attached to MBP with one TB3 cable.

The trick seems to be spending 5k for that and justifying it on a forum, good one, or you can use your brain for free.
 
The trick seems to be spending 5k for that and justifying it on a forum, good one, or you can use your brain for free.

The MBP cost actually $5.900 (I don't live in USA), the rest some more. At least for me, the cost was no problem and the system if worth every penny, at least for me. The point: there are some 7 (US)billion people one Earth and hunderds of millions of them can easily afford that kind of money for a nice computer. And there are 6+ (US)billion people who can't afford that kind of money, which is OK. So, there is plenty of room for growth for Macs. Just saying, you don't have to agree.
 
At least for me Apple got practically everything right with new MBPs: I love the thinness, the lightness, the display, the trackpad, the keyboard, the speakers, Touch Bar, the ports and don't get me even started with the wicked fast 2 TB flash storage.

As far as connectivity is concerned I have LG 5K display, scanner, printer, 2 TB hard drive, mouse, keyboard, track ball, CD drive, CD card reader, Micro Card reader, HDMI port, Ethernet port and charger attached to my MBP with a SINGLE CABLE. The trick: all pripherals are connected to LG 5K display which is attached to MBP with one TB3 cable.

Did you use their previous-gen MBP? And if so, did you like its features?

Because I see the newest MBPs as vastly inferior:

Inferior connectivity on the go (it's NOT a desktop, who cares what's in my dock at home), triples the need for dongles
No Magsafe
VASTLY Inferior keyboard
Larger and more intrusive trackpad leading to errors when typing and compromised ergonomics
Pointless touchbar that removes function keys for those that rely on them (me)
Unlit Apple logo (just a cool touch replaced with a "sticker")
Soldered SSD (makes the device a throwaway....so much for "green")

A few mm thinner and .4 lbs lighter at the expense of the above is TERRIBLE for me.
 
The MBP cost actually $5.900 (I don't live in USA), the rest some more. At least for me, the cost was no problem and the system if worth every penny, at least for me. The point: there are some 7 (US)billion people one Earth and hunderds of millions of them can easily afford that kind of money for a nice computer. And there are 6+ (US)billion people who can't afford that kind of money, which is OK. So, there is plenty of room for growth for Macs. Just saying, you don't have to agree.

6k for a "nice" laptop, I see. When the drive fails, or need to connect to any standard monitor or if you need to upgrade components, you can always point out how "nice" it is while fingering the touch bar, that would make you look like a true entrepreneur.

Don't forget you can always show off how you turn volume up/down with 2 taps emphasizing the need of a dedicated display instead of 1 as with mechanic keys, a very deeply thought out improvement, actually now that you mention it I've just realized it's a lifetime opportunity, might get a couple.
 
Did you use their previous-gen MBP? And if so, did you like its features?

Yes, MBP 2010, 2012, 2013 (at least). And yes, I liked them much and I like my current MBP more.
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When the drive fails, or need to connect to any standard monitor or if you need to upgrade components

I have had something like 20 Apple procducts with CPU (starting 1989 with Macintosh II and Mac Portable) and only once has a drive failed (maybe I have been just lucky). Luckily enough I don't have to connect to standard monitors, I have always had Apple monitors, except for the current LG 5K monitor, which I dump when/if Apple introduces a new monitor.

A few mm thinner and .4 lbs lighter at the expense of the above is TERRIBLE for me.

I can understand that.
 
Sorry Apple, that wasn't me. Bought a Grade A/B MBP Mid 2012 with all the usable ports and easily upgraded disk and memory. I don't see anything on the horizon that looks interesting.

Exactly.

In many respects the mid-2012 MBP is the best laptop Apple ever created. Bar none.

Yet time marches on and there have been various improvements in newer models. So all the more maddening to be denied these advancements unless willing to accept as well disadvantages in hardware and software Apple thinks one should readily accept and even welcome. No thanks.

But one example: the keyboard. Some prefer the new keyboard. Likely most now, in hindsight, miss what they once had and took for granted in assuming Apple would always naturally return the best possible experience. To be frank, the new keyboard is an Ive exercise in form over function.

Apple should reexamine the core beliefs of Steve Jobs and once more live and express them.
 
Don't forget you can always show off how you turn volume up/down with 2 taps emphasizing the need of a dedicated display instead of 1 as with mechanic keys, a very deeply thought out improvement

Of course, this is only me, but I have tens of other uses for Touch Bar. I use it a lot in several apps. For me Touch Bar is just the right way of implementing touching on a laptop. However, I can understand that it is not for everyone.
 
So 4 years on my desktop without any significant issues, 2 years of my Lenovo laptop running without issue, and 6 months in of my school using PCs without issue. As a former Mac user, I can tell you Windows 10 works absolutely fine, and any "inefficiencies" are easily lost in the vastly superior hardware. As for the Ads, yeah they exist.. for about the 30 seconds it takes to clear them away.

Honestly, Mac OS can be as polished as it wants to be, still doesn't change the fact that media production requires computing power that Macs simply don't have these days.

As for build quality, that isn't really a fair thing to say about all PCs. Sure a 400$ Acer laptop is going to be poorly made, but my Lenovo is a solid machine thats just as well built as my MacBook Pro was. My desktop I built myself is a well crafted machine, 4 years strong without a single hardware failure.

Honestly when you just spout off the usual "its a terrible junk OS" line, it makes me think your only experience with Windows was running launch day Vista on a Pentium III. If it was as terrible as you make it out to be, professionals wouldn't load it onto their very expensive machines.

Oh right, sorry to burst the bubble about Mac OS's "tight hardware intergration", but when I had my MacBook Pro, I ran Windows on it in bootcamp, and Mac OS was only a few seconds faster at most at heavy tasks. Mac OS runs on the same hardware as PCs do these days, and considering the myriad of configurable options for Mac hardware, the OS isn't nearly as tightly integrated as it was a few years ago.
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Wow, thanks for that condescending attitude. Not that theres anything wrong with creating content for YouTube or Twitch, either of which can have extremely demanding workflows. But me I just stick to rendering animations and physics simulations in Maya, editing 4K RAW footage in Premier and After Effects, color grading that footage in Resolve, editing lovely 16-bit images in Photoshop, texturing 3D objects in Substance Painter. You know, just lightweight work that requires a decent CPU and something stronger than a mid-tier AMD laptop GPU.



You can turn of telemetry pretty easily. Theres many 2 minute tutorials on how to do it. Same with the advertisements. I agree I shouldn't have to, but honestly its a minor 5 minute inconvenience I have to do once a year. As for the power management, honestly it sounds like your laptop is defective. I've got a Lenovo laptop and it sleeps when I close the lid without fail. I feel like you've taken a few bad things about Windows and blown them up to be something bigger than they are. Everyones experience is different, but I've use Windows for the last 4 years on my desktop and the last 2 years on my laptop and it has never once caused me to be unable to do work.



This isn't exactly a fair comparison. Yes MacBooks are well made, yes there are some horrendously bad PC laptops, but honestly any PC I've seen/used thats over 1000$ the build quality is decent. My Lenovo is easily as well made as my MacBook Pro was, with the exception of the trackpad, though for me thats a non-issue as I always use a mouse. Same goes for the displays. Yeah no kidding a 400$ Acer laptop has a terrible display, but my Lenovo's 1080p screen is plenty crisp at 15", and has excellent color and contrast, and I don't find myself missing the Retina Display from my MacBook at all. And now you can get a plethora of PC laptops with 4K screens, so they've caught up on pixel density.



And thats good if you have Apple products, but the only Apple product I have left is a 2nd Gen iPod nano.

"the only Apple product I have left is a 2nd Gen iPod nano"

Why are you even here on this site then?
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Apple went from a design with 7 ports (2xUSB, 2xTB2, SD, Magsafe, HDMI), to a design with 4 ports. How is that better?

A much more useful design would have simply to swap the 2xTB2 ports for 2xUSB-C.

People with USBA and HDMI cables/connections would still be happy
People with SD cards would still be happy.
People with Magsafe adapters (At home/work) will still be happy.
People with new USB-C chargers will be happy
People with 4K/5K displays (up to two of them!) will be happy.

What would not be to like?


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Yeah - we are using adapters/screen that we already had. The USBC-HDMI adapter seems flaky anyway, so probably going to have to replace...sigh. I'd buy a single USBC-DVI cable, except that loses us a USB port - leaving only one, which is needed for power!
I hate these stupid new machines with such a lack of ports, and I'm kind of embarrassed now that I even bought one for my staff member. £1500 and it can't connect to ANY of the free-standing displays we have, or any of our USB peripherals.

The Monoprice dongle only uses one USB-C. It has three ports on it, USB-C for power passthrough or for USB-C out to something else, DVI and a USB-A. So you could use just it to charge, DVI monitor and have a USB-A port.

I use the Apple USB-C to USB-C/HDMI/USBA at work and at home. I just plug that one dongle in and I am done as power is passed through. I am running 4K LG screens at both home and work via HDMI.

I do miss magsafe but on my 2013 Macbook Pro I have to plug in Power, thunderbolt to Displayport, and a USB Logitech adapter, so a total of 3. It is nice having just a single dongle to plug in.
 
Maybe Win10 is nice.
But I don't want to run Windows.
M'kay?
If I had to buy a Mac now, I'd probably have to shell out the 3.5k for the top-end iMac. I see it can drive two additional 4k screens, so that's not too bad. I just feel I don't really need all that GPU power (but I need the screen real-estate).

Running macOS on Apple hardware can be expensive.
But if you only buy Minis, they get released seldom enough so you don't overspend ;-)
 
Apple went from a design with 7 ports (2xUSB, 2xTB2, SD, Magsafe, HDMI), to a design with 4 ports. How is that better?

A much more useful design would have simply to swap the 2xTB2 ports for 2xUSB-C.

People with USBA and HDMI cables/connections would still be happy
People with SD cards would still be happy.
People with Magsafe adapters (At home/work) will still be happy.
People with new USB-C chargers will be happy
People with 4K/5K displays (up to two of them!) will be happy.

What would not be to like?

What are the odds that you are using all 7 ports simultaneously?

With usb C ports, they can be any port I want them to be with the right adaptor or cable. For example, I can now plug in the charging cable on the left or right of the laptop. Compared to MagSafe which has always been on my left. Same with display output. You can customise what ports you want for your own use case with minimal wastage. So there’s no sd card slot or hdmi port taking up space if I don’t use it.

And now with fewer ports, it frees up space, allowing your laptop to be thinner and lighter.

I feel that 4 usb C ports are more versatile than those 7 ports you mentioned. Yes, there is always a cost associated with switching, but I feel the pros outweigh the cons here.
 
But one example: the keyboard. Some prefer the new keyboard. Likely most now, in hindsight, miss what they once had and took for granted in assuming Apple would always naturally return the best possible experience. To be frank, the new keyboard is an Ive exercise in form over function.

Apple should reexamine the core beliefs of Steve Jobs and once more live and express them.
Remind me again who unveiled the first MacBook Air on stage? And the outcry that ensued over the removal of features once deemed indispensable?

Sometimes, the form is the function. Like the butterfly keyboard enabling a thinner form factor.
 
My 13" mid 2010 MBP is STILL running solid! I haven't had any reason to upgrade just yet. Although it does get harder and harder to resist after quick pop-ins at the Apple store.
 
Again, its not all black and white. My Apple laptop is great for software development, but I have a PC beside me for some very good reasons - a mac cannot do what that windows machine can, due to lack of software / hardware. Also that PC was probably 2 or 3 times less expensive, yet, still more powerful than a Mac desktop.

EDIT: I see you've edited your post to "IMO the mac is" ..
The only thing a PC can do that a Mac can't is gaming and windows software development in my experience.

If Apple ever took a serious stab at gaming I would replace all of my PC's immediately. macOS is just that much better.
 
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What are the odds that you are using all 7 ports simultaneously?

With usb C ports, they can be any port I want them to be with the right adaptor or cable. For example, I can now plug in the charging cable on the left or right of the laptop. Compared to MagSafe which has always been on my left. Same with display output. You can customise what ports you want for your own use case with minimal wastage. So there’s no sd card slot or hdmi port taking up space if I don’t use it.

And now with fewer ports, it frees up space, allowing your laptop to be thinner and lighter.

I feel that 4 usb C ports are more versatile than those 7 ports you mentioned. Yes, there is always a cost associated with switching, but I feel the pros outweigh the cons here.
Sure - USB-C ports are indeed more versatile - and that, in principle, is a good thing. I don't disagree with that. What is less good (for my use-case), is that in its default configuration, the machine is less useful.

When travelling, I used to only take a mDP-VGA adapter (just in case HDMI was not available).

Now, I will need to take (and purchase):
USB-C to USBA
USB-C to VGA
USB-C to HDMI (because I'd much rather use HDMI if it is available!)
USB-C to SD card slot

Or buy a third-party travel dock (that may or may not work, and may or may not have a decent warranty/support).

The likelihood of a venue having a USB-C compatible projector input is very low at the moment. Nor would I expect there to be screens I can plug into. So 4x USB-C is just not very useful (even if it is, potentially, flexible).

Moreover: what is the point of a thinner/lighter laptop if I now need to take along 3 extra adapters (or a dock) with me!

As I said before - Apple could have kept everyone happy with simply swapping the 2xTB2 for 2xTB3 (USB-C).

At this point in time, I see absolutely no benefit to 4 USB-C ports. In what useage scenario would 2x USB-C not be sufficient? (Note that USB-C supports daisy-chaining.) Leaving space for HDMI/SD and/or USBA.
 
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At this point in time, I see absolutely no benefit to 4 USB-C ports. In what useage scenario would 2x USB-C not be sufficient? (Note that USB-C supports daisy-chaining.) Leaving space for HDMI/SD and/or USBA.
My guess is that Apple wanted a thinner laptop and they needed to do away with basically every other port to achieve that goal (even USB-A). That's why the iMac still has it.
 
My guess is that Apple wanted a thinner laptop and they needed to do away with basically every other port to achieve that goal (even USB-A). That's why the iMac still has it.
How does a thinner laptop benefit anyone? It basically still takes up the same volume (and is the more-or-less the same weight) as the 2015 model - especially once you factor in slipcase, charger, dongles etc).
In any case, are SD, HDMI and USBA really too thick to have fitted?
https://www.apple.com/mac/compare/r...-pro-2015-15&product2=macbook-pro-touchbar-15
0.61 inches vs 0.71 inches for total thickness, and 200g extra in weight, yet you get more ports and a battery that is 99.5 Whr vs 76.0 Whr (30% larger).
 
In any case, are SD, HDMI and USBA really too thick to have fitted?

I don't know about you or Apple, but for me the three big things with USB-C ports are:

1. USB-C ports are symmetric. You never have to figure out which way you plug in the cable. For me asymmetric ports a crime against humanity.
2. You have the same ports on both sides of the computer. You can plug the cable(s) on the side which is more convenient for the situation. This is really big bonus especially when the cable is short.
3. You never have to figure out on which side of the computer you have to plug the cable. Both sides are as good.
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There was once a reason for paying for the premium: simplicity "it just works".

For me similar ports (USB-C with TB3 protocol) on both sides of the computer is just that: simplicity and "it just works".
 
I think you are all over analysing it. Its probably simply that having 4 identical ports makes for a cheaper to manufacture machine than a various multiport machine = more profit $$$$$$ :apple::apple::apple:

No, I am not analyzing. I am telling about my experience using the actual machine. I don't care if a vendor makes profit as long as the product is valuable to me and the product is cheap for me (it may not be cheap for you). Besides, I read from the internet that in capitalism the goal of companies is to make profit and I guess we live in capitalism (I am not from North Korea).
 
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