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I honestly don't know who is buying Macs at this point. Rich kids who don't know any better I guess. This past year I've watched pretty much every colleague of mine who works on media creation ditch Mac and get a PC. How Mac sales are still going is a mystery.

Define "media creation". Is that youtube or twitch channels?

I own a 2017 15inch Lenovo Thinkpad E570 and a 2017 15inch Macbook Pro. The Macbook cost me $2800 with my company's discount through Apple. The Lenovo after my upgrades (32gig of RAM, 1TB Samsung 960 EVO) cost me $1600.

The Lenovo has more ports (USB2/3, HDMI, VGA, Ethernet and SD Card). It has double the RAM, and it was upgradable. After the upgrade of the M2 SSD from a 256gig to a Samsung 960 1TB it basically has the same drive as the Macbook Pro. Thinkpad's have IMHO the best keyboards around. All of this for $1200 less.

Why would I even want a Macbook Pro??

Windows. Windows 10 is simply horrible even with the Fall Creators Update. It is a complete bug fest. The UI is a complete un-finished, inconsistent mess. You can't turn off telemetry, you can't stop automatic updates. Power management is so utterly bad. I close the lid, should go to sleep, put it in my bag, go from work to home, two hours later pull it out of my now hot bag with the battery almost dead because even after two year of updates Windows 10 still has sleep issues/power management issues. The E570 has the latest Intel Kaby Lake, so it is NOT a chipset issue. Tack on all the here today gone tomorrow UWP junky apps that Microsoft tosses into the OS, plus all the tacky advertisements, that you can mostly turn off but why should you ever have too do this??

macOS while not perfect either is 100000X > than Windows 10. Every complaint I have about Windows 10, is not there on macOS. Example, I can pull my fully charged Lenovo off the charger, shutdown. Open it 48 hours later and it is either dead or almost dead. Do the same for my Macbook and it will be at 98% charge. Heck a week later the Macbook will be at 90% or more.

The fit and finish of the hardware, case, screen, trackpad is 100X better on the Mac. The Keyboard on the Mac is not great but I transitioned to in a few days.

Integration with my other Apple products....simply fantastic. iCloud is way, way faster than OneDrive.

So yes the price of the Macbook over a PC is higher, but IMHO worth every penny for so many reasons.
 
I mean it really boils down to price for performance in a studio. Why would any studio buy a bunch of Mac Pros at 4000-6000$ a machine running old, slow hardware, when for 4000-6000$ you can get a PC that will massively outperform any Mac.

As an individial attending a college for Digital Media Production, why would someone spend 3000$ on a MacBook with soldered RAM, a tiny soldered SSD, and a terrible mid-range GPU, when 3000$ can get you a PC laptop with a full desktop 1070/1080 GPU, a better CPU, more replacable ram, and an SSD+HDD combo?

No matter how you look at it, Macs are overpriced and under perform compared to PC, and anyone who needs to do more than touch up some photos will need the superior performance that PC offers.

As far as high end content creation on Mac goes, its dead.

Alternatively, why would I spend $3,679.32 on a Dell Precision 7520 with the closest equivalent specifications as an upgraded 2017 15" MacBook Pro? There's only one area where the Dell clearly wins, and that's RAM...two if you think the UHD IGZO display beats the MBP's lower resolution P3 display. Maybe it does, until you start trying to figure out how to get Windows 10 to scale everything correctly, so that it is actually usable on a daily basis.

Dell Precision 7520 - $3679.32
- Core i7-7820HQ - 2.9GHz
- Windows 10 Professional
- NVIDIA Quadro M2200 w/4GB GDDR5 <--terrible mid-range GPU that uses 20w more energy
- 15.6" UltraSharp UHD IGZO
- 32GB 2400MHz DDR4 DRAM
- 1TB M.2 PCIe Storage
- Backlit Keyboard
- Palm Rest w/ touch fingerprint reader
- 6-cell(91Whr) LiIon Polymer Batter w/Express Charge
- 1 Thunderbolt 3 port; gobs of legacy ports
- Starts at 6.16 pounds
- 1.03" (front) to 1.3" (rear)

versus

MacBook Pro 15" - $3199.00
- Core i7-7820HQ - 2.9GHz
- macOS High Sierra
- RADEON PRO 560 w/4GB GDDR5
- 15.4" P3 IPS Retina Display IPS
- 16GB 2133MHz LPDDR3 RAM
- 1TB PCIe SSD
- Backlit Keyboard
- TouchID fingerprint reader
- 6-cell(76 Whr) LiIon Polymer Battery
- 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports
- 4.02 pounds
- 0.61" thick

Everything in life is a tradeoff, but I would take the 15" MacBook pro every time over the equivalent Dell and save my back the misery of those 2 extra pounds and an incredibly bulky laptop. The Mac is hardly dead for high-end content creation, but I digress.

Of course you can get more for your money building a desktop PC, but you're not carrying it around with you anywhere. You have to decide if you want more power and stationary, or less powerful and supremely mobile. I'll take supremely mobile and it's compromises any day of the week.
 
ohh.. Please enlighten all of us how a Macbook Pro is soooo good??
- They removed the best feature, Mag-Safe
You don’t charge your iPad when you are using it. You typically only charge it at night before you go to bed, and in this context, MagSafe is redundant.

Apple wants you to use your laptop like you use your other mobile devices.

Likewise, with USB C, your ports can be whatever you want them to be (with the right adaptor), so MagSafe would simply be using up a port space.

In the greater scheme of things, I agree that losing MagSafe sucks but I can see why Apple chose to stop MagSafe. It just didn’t make sense reserving a dedicated port for charging when you have usb C.

- Big battery problems
Which have since been fixed via software updates, and which were found to also have been the result of a faulty testing process.

- Bad Keyboard
It’s not that bad.

- Lack of ports
With usb C and the right adaptors, they are whatever ports I need them to be. I would say 4 is plenty with a little bit of imagination.

- Lack of connectivity
[/QUOTE]
See above. I assume you mean ports.
8e77168e0a2ef87beeb49afb588649fc.jpg

Sometimes, the way forward is by embracing change, not fighting it every step of the way, especially if they are one of this self-styled more “tech-savvy” group of users.
- So called "Pro" but lack of RAM and old HD
Flash storage is better in every way and 16 gb ram is plenty for most users.

Seems it’s a small group of niche self-styled power users who are whining that they can’t get 16 gb ram and even then, the reasons for Apple not being to accommodate that has been well documented. The logic board can’t support that anytime soon.

- Overpriced.

That many people buy Dells does not make Dells a good computer. Same applies to Apple.
There’s a difference between a product being expensive, and it being overpriced.

The MacBook Pro is great in ways that may not be easily quantifiable, but have an improvement on the end user experience nevertheless. Such as being thinner and lighter, which makes it more portable and easier to carry around. Which can matter just as much as pure paper specs.

Many people are opting to buy Apple products despite their higher price tags, over the competition. I would say that ought to count for something.
 
a lot of people don't know that you can install windows in a mac via boot camp, not knowing that they can get far better hardware then a PC laptop with similar price tag as a mac...
what? you mean actual hardware or build quality.

last time i checked msi and alienware offers 7700hq, gtx 1070, 16gb of ram, and decent size ssd for around 1k.
 
As an individial attending a college for Digital Media Production, why would someone spend 3000$ on a MacBook with soldered RAM, a tiny soldered SSD, and a terrible mid-range GPU, when 3000$ can get you a PC laptop with a full desktop 1070/1080 GPU, a better CPU, more replacable ram, and an SSD+HDD combo?
If that’s an actual question (rather than rhetorical), there’s an actual answer: the OS. Windows 10 is either terrible, awful, crappy, inefficient, or maddening depending on the day. Horrific power management. Peppered with ads and junk ware. Mac users learned long ago that spec wars are meaningless. Not only does a smooth, user friendly environment make the experience far more than a “better CPU” does, Macs’ SW/HW/ecosystem integration make actual task performance often take less time in real world use. Of course, a PC user might have Geekbench scores to brag about while Mac users are enjoying their smooth experiences and unrivaled build quality, so there’s that.
 
I honestly don't know who is buying Macs at this point. Rich kids who don't know any better I guess. This past year I've watched pretty much every colleague of mine who works on media creation ditch Mac and get a PC. How Mac sales are still going is a mystery.

Simple: the reason is the education market.

Educational laptop requirement + easy student loan credit + chic design + astronomical Apple markup - slight student discount = great educational sales and significant profits.
 
If that’s an actual question (rather than rhetorical), there’s an actual answer: the OS. Windows 10 is either terrible, awful, crappy, inefficient, or maddening depending on the day. Horrific power management. Peppered with ads and junk ware. Mac users learned long ago that spec wars are meaningless. Not only does a smooth, user friendly environment make the experience far more than a “better CPU” does, Macs’ SW/HW/ecosystem integration make actual task performance often take less time in real world use. Of course, a PC user might have Geekbench scores to brag about while Mac users are enjoying their smooth experiences and unrivaled build quality, so there’s that.

So 4 years on my desktop without any significant issues, 2 years of my Lenovo laptop running without issue, and 6 months in of my school using PCs without issue. As a former Mac user, I can tell you Windows 10 works absolutely fine, and any "inefficiencies" are easily lost in the vastly superior hardware. As for the Ads, yeah they exist.. for about the 30 seconds it takes to clear them away.

Honestly, Mac OS can be as polished as it wants to be, still doesn't change the fact that media production requires computing power that Macs simply don't have these days.

As for build quality, that isn't really a fair thing to say about all PCs. Sure a 400$ Acer laptop is going to be poorly made, but my Lenovo is a solid machine thats just as well built as my MacBook Pro was. My desktop I built myself is a well crafted machine, 4 years strong without a single hardware failure.

Honestly when you just spout off the usual "its a terrible junk OS" line, it makes me think your only experience with Windows was running launch day Vista on a Pentium III. If it was as terrible as you make it out to be, professionals wouldn't load it onto their very expensive machines.

Oh right, sorry to burst the bubble about Mac OS's "tight hardware intergration", but when I had my MacBook Pro, I ran Windows on it in bootcamp, and Mac OS was only a few seconds faster at most at heavy tasks. Mac OS runs on the same hardware as PCs do these days, and considering the myriad of configurable options for Mac hardware, the OS isn't nearly as tightly integrated as it was a few years ago.
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Define "media creation". Is that youtube or twitch channels?

Wow, thanks for that condescending attitude. Not that theres anything wrong with creating content for YouTube or Twitch, either of which can have extremely demanding workflows. But me I just stick to rendering animations and physics simulations in Maya, editing 4K RAW footage in Premier and After Effects, color grading that footage in Resolve, editing lovely 16-bit images in Photoshop, texturing 3D objects in Substance Painter. You know, just lightweight work that requires a decent CPU and something stronger than a mid-tier AMD laptop GPU.

Windows. Windows 10 is simply horrible even with the Fall Creators Update. It is a complete bug fest. The UI is a complete un-finished, inconsistent mess. You can't turn off telemetry, you can't stop automatic updates. Power management is so utterly bad. I close the lid, should go to sleep, put it in my bag, go from work to home, two hours later pull it out of my now hot bag with the battery almost dead because even after two year of updates Windows 10 still has sleep issues/power management issues. The E570 has the latest Intel Kaby Lake, so it is NOT a chipset issue. Tack on all the here today gone tomorrow UWP junky apps that Microsoft tosses into the OS, plus all the tacky advertisements, that you can mostly turn off but why should you ever have too do this??

macOS while not perfect either is 100000X > than Windows 10. Every complaint I have about Windows 10, is not there on macOS. Example, I can pull my fully charged Lenovo off the charger, shutdown. Open it 48 hours later and it is either dead or almost dead. Do the same for my Macbook and it will be at 98% charge. Heck a week later the Macbook will be at 90% or more.

You can turn of telemetry pretty easily. Theres many 2 minute tutorials on how to do it. Same with the advertisements. I agree I shouldn't have to, but honestly its a minor 5 minute inconvenience I have to do once a year. As for the power management, honestly it sounds like your laptop is defective. I've got a Lenovo laptop and it sleeps when I close the lid without fail. I feel like you've taken a few bad things about Windows and blown them up to be something bigger than they are. Everyones experience is different, but I've use Windows for the last 4 years on my desktop and the last 2 years on my laptop and it has never once caused me to be unable to do work.

The fit and finish of the hardware, case, screen, trackpad is 100X better on the Mac. The Keyboard on the Mac is not great but I transitioned to in a few days.

This isn't exactly a fair comparison. Yes MacBooks are well made, yes there are some horrendously bad PC laptops, but honestly any PC I've seen/used thats over 1000$ the build quality is decent. My Lenovo is easily as well made as my MacBook Pro was, with the exception of the trackpad, though for me thats a non-issue as I always use a mouse. Same goes for the displays. Yeah no kidding a 400$ Acer laptop has a terrible display, but my Lenovo's 1080p screen is plenty crisp at 15", and has excellent color and contrast, and I don't find myself missing the Retina Display from my MacBook at all. And now you can get a plethora of PC laptops with 4K screens, so they've caught up on pixel density.

Integration with my other Apple products....simply fantastic. iCloud is way, way faster than OneDrive.

And thats good if you have Apple products, but the only Apple product I have left is a 2nd Gen iPod nano.
 
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I am hoping the next MacBook Pro offers some level of performance increase over my mid-2014 with 2.8GHz i7 processor, which was the fastest configuration available. The first version of the USB3.1 design offered a measly 3-5% increase in performance in certain categories, but decreases in others. The most recent release brought everything up over what I have, but at a performance difference ranging from 3-7%, which is not enough to buy a new one. The port removals are also a killer, but I can get past that if they can release a machine that is significantly faster than mine. It's hateful they won't increase the performance of base MacBook Pro with all of the ports.
I know it’s frustrating, but your beef is with Intel. The 2.8GHz i7-4980HQ was the highest performance, top of the line Haswell/Crystal Well H-series CPU available in 2014. The new Kaby Lake H-series were introduced earlier this year, and again Apple offers the highest performing, fastest cpu Intel makes at the H-series’ 45W TDP, the 3.1GHz i7-7920HQ. Intel hasn’t offered anything faster in Mobile CPUs. What is Apple to do?

They do what they can. The new 15” MBP are aimed directly at power users like you. Four Thunderbolt 3 ports offer unprecedented I/O bandwidth, and if you take your laptop between home and work, with a dock at both locations you’ll just plug in one or maybe two cables instead of 5 or 6. Supreme flexibility, whether you need FireWire, mini display port, VGA, HDMI, eSATA, multiple USB2.0/3.1 ports, optical audio, line in/out, and some I’m sure I’m forgetting.

And when you’re traveling, you have the highest performing laptop, the thinnest and lightest available, with best in class battery life. Maybe you need a couple cables or an adapter or two but road warriors have always had to deal with adapters.

Many Pro buyers love these machines; yeah they’re not perfect but nothing ever is. Technical and marketing trade offs are made, but these machines are beasts. It just so happens you kind of already have a beast, and if CPU is your bottleneck, Intel has let you down. Apple simply has no faster option at the moment.
 
I know it’s frustrating, but your beef is with Intel. The 2.8GHz i7-4980HQ was the highest performance, top of the line Haswell/Crystal Well H-series CPU available in 2014. The new Kaby Lake H-series were introduced earlier this year, and again Apple offers the highest performing, fastest cpu Intel makes at the H-series’ 45W TDP, the 3.1GHz i7-7920HQ. Intel hasn’t offered anything faster in Mobile CPUs. What is Apple to do?

They do what they can. The new 15” MBP are aimed directly at power users like you. Four Thunderbolt 3 ports offer unprecedented I/O bandwidth, and if you take your laptop between home and work, with a dock at both locations you’ll just plug in one or maybe two cables instead of 5 or 6. Supreme flexibility, whether you need FireWire, mini display port, VGA, HDMI, eSATA, multiple USB2.0/3.1 ports, optical audio, line in/out, and some I’m sure I’m forgetting.

And when you’re traveling, you have the highest performing laptop, the thinnest and lightest available, with best in class battery life. Maybe you need a couple cables or an adapter or two but road warriors have always had to deal with adapters.

Many Pro buyers love these machines; yeah they’re not perfect but nothing ever is. Technical and marketing trade offs are made, but these machines are beasts. It just so happens you kind of already have a beast, and if CPU is your bottleneck, Intel has let you down. Apple simply has no faster option at the moment.

I am planning to buy a macbook Pro, do you think there will be any big update in 2018 models?

And why is that there aren't much rumors regarding macbooks like iphone has?
 
I am planning to buy a macbook Pro, do you think there will be any big update in 2018 models?

And why is that there aren't much rumors regarding macbooks like iphone has?
There are some new parts with on package AMD graphics chips, it was in the news about a week ago. These would be for the 15”, and the parts will be available 1Q2018:

https://www.macrumors.com/2017/11/06/intel-8th-generation-processors-amd-gpus/

There are also some 6-core parts coming that would be suitable for the 15” MBP, maybe not available until 2Q2018 or even Q3 but it’s hard to predict Apple’s timeline or even if they’ll use them (but I think they will). These parts won’t have faster single-core performance but they should have at least 25% better multi-core performance.

For the 13”, by 2Q2018 there are finally some 28W quad-core parts but who knows if Apple will make 13” quad core but at least Intel will have it available.

For all MBP, the 2018 models would come earliest mid- but more likely late-2018. If you’re looking for 32GB of RAM, that doesn’t happen until Intel’s Ice Lake release, so mid 2019 is the best guess there.
 
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My late 2013 MBP and it's seven (if counting the headphone jack) ports and safemag is going to have to be ripped out of my cold dead hands before I ever upgrade. Looks great, runs like butter... no need to upgrade.
 
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So Tim is probably thinking make it even thinner, even a flatter keyboard and less ports, and add $600 more to the price... that should increase demand for next release.
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My late 2013 MBP and it's seven (if counting the headphone jack) ports and safemag is going to have to be ripped out of my cold dead hands before I ever upgrade. Looks great, runs like butter... no need to upgrade.

My understanding is that they don't build them like they used to. I hear the electronics giveup in 5-7 years with things like batteries,GPU, motherboards, etc.
 
So Tim is probably thinking make it even thinner, even a flatter keyboard and less ports, and add $600 more to the price... that should increase demand for next release.
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My understanding is that they don't build them like they used to. I hear the electronics giveup in 5-7 years with things like batteries,GPU, motherboards, etc.

And that is when I repair it and forge on lol.
 
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Apple, I need a 14-inch (or larger, but not smaller) MacBook (not Pro) with less weight (or the same, but not more) than the 13.3'' MacBook Air. You already have my feedback from last summer asking for this MacBook as the worthy successor to my late 2010 MBA, but I just wanted to insist here.

In other words: the 15'' LG gram but doing it right (the Mac way) rather than wrong (the PC way).

Or if you prefer it this way: the 14'' version of the 12'' MacBook.

If you release it, I order the top-configured model (with everything) the first day. The price doesn't matter because I assume the top configuration would be below $3000, and that fits my budget. I just want a *big* display with extreme lightness, below $3000.

Regarding the MacBook Pro, I'm not interested. If it doesn't have an >=8GB NVIDIA GPU, I'm not interested. My interest is either extreme lightness (MacBook Air and MacBook) or extreme performance (previous generations of the MacBook Pro). The current MacBook Pro generation is a compromise between lightness and performance that doesn't interest me at all.
 
It's hateful they won't increase the performance of base MacBook Pro with all of the ports.
I ordered a top spec i7 15 inch quad core with turbo to 4Ghz.
It basically has all of the ports we need, and comes with a 512GB SSD for "free" compared to the equivalent 2017 model.
For computation work the performance will be identical.

I just wish there had been an equivalent 13 inch model with ports too.
 
Why not just use the standard reason given by the hater ilk? People who buy Apple products are stupid. Oh wait, you already did. And that’s really all you have isn’t it? You can’t understand how Mac sales are still going so it must be that Apple customers are stupid.
This reminds me of politics when someone gets elected and people in a certain bubble can’t understand how said person was elected because no one they know voted for him/her. There’s a certain bubble that absolutely hates these new Macs and can’t fathom how anyone could own one because they (and others in the bubble) would never own one. It’s like those who say you can’t get “real” work done on an iPad. It’s this condescending snobbish attitude towards people who don’t have the same preferences or work habits a those in the bubble do.
 
For my group, I just ordered the new nonTB 13 inch and an old-style 15 inch MBPro (the one with all the ports).
I have to say that the nonTB13 looks silly. In order to connect up to a 24 inch DVI display (that we already had), we are using a USB-C to HDMI adapter, and then a HDMI to DVI adapter. We then have a USB-C to USB adapter plugged into the only other port, and from that the USBC power adapter. It works, but looks silly.

By contrast, the 15 inch MacBook pro still (thankfully) has a couple of regular USB3 ports, and HDMI, and miniDP (using it to connect to a Dell U2711), and MagSafe, and a SD card slot, and is very fast! It is hard to see in what way the newer designs are better (from an end-user perspective). It seems the only case where they are better are if you wish to plug in to 1 or more 4K or 5K displays. While great, I don't think there are many users doing that with them. Whereas I suspect the number of users that still use USB, mDP, SD cards, and HDMI is massive!

I bet your DVI monitor setup looks funny. Monoprice makes a $29 USB-C to DVI/USB/USB-C dongle. You could hook up that new Macbook with a single USB-C connection, vs that mess you have.
 
Makes sense all these kiddos bashing Windows they are likely running extremely high income businesses hence their founded opinion, lol.
 
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