"Need" is an overstatement. They are getting more common, and, other than last step image processing - like an active crossover in a speaker system - I can't imagine what they're for.
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Studio Display XDR Impressions
- Thread starter gsilver
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@zesta ”It freezes the entire system.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra.”
This is a problem that particularly affects any M2 P/M/U Mac.
Early Macs don’t have sufficiently flexible DSC software, and maybe on a CPU spike this compression appears to fall, and on the fly, the connection reverts to uncompressed dual stream TB3, with each stream feeding half the screen image, left or right.
However the mode-change negotiation with the monitor’s firmware seems to fail catastrophically with both halves of the screen showing unrelated slash.
This probably can only be solved with a firmware update. 🙁
“Also, it is noticeably dimmer than my Studio Display, except for HDR content…”
Are you sure that you don’t have a Colour Mode selected that imposes a more lower brightness level?
Some have a maximum brightness of as low as 150 bits in order to give the exact performance needed for the Colour Mode selected.
Mac Studio M2 Ultra.”
This is a problem that particularly affects any M2 P/M/U Mac.
Early Macs don’t have sufficiently flexible DSC software, and maybe on a CPU spike this compression appears to fall, and on the fly, the connection reverts to uncompressed dual stream TB3, with each stream feeding half the screen image, left or right.
However the mode-change negotiation with the monitor’s firmware seems to fail catastrophically with both halves of the screen showing unrelated slash.
This probably can only be solved with a firmware update. 🙁
“Also, it is noticeably dimmer than my Studio Display, except for HDR content…”
Are you sure that you don’t have a Colour Mode selected that imposes a more lower brightness level?
Some have a maximum brightness of as low as 150 bits in order to give the exact performance needed for the Colour Mode selected.
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I have tried both "Apple XDR" options and it is really only usable for normal desktop stuff at nearly full brightness. Half brightness would only be usable at all in a completely dark room. Other presets like "HDR Video" or "Digital Video" are eye-strainingly dim.
Turning True Tone on makes it look better (seemingly more accurate colors oddly enough, rather than the default blue-fest), but it dims the overall image even more.
Mind you I am directly comparing to an original ASD in the same lighting. I generally kept the ASD a couple notches from full brightness. That is bright for standard desktop work than the XDR at full brightness. The exception is if I have something large or full screen that is white it does get pretty bright (but so does the ASD)
I don't really have any way to properly measure, but there is no way the XDR is nearly double the max brightness for SDR.
I am just puzzled as to how this could look so bad with the dimness and the terrible ghosting. The ASD has exactly the amount of blur/ghosting I would expect at 60Hz. The XDR is just terrible and looks basically the same at any refresh rate.
First of all, I know for a fact that the Apple Studio Display (1st and 2nd gen) has a specific iPhone chip built into it, but otherwise I keep seeing some users say “maybe” ... Do you know exactly what the chip in the display does, or are you just speculating about what it might do? That—and only that—was my question. And if you do know, please describe exactly what its functions are.
That’s why I said perhaps. Pretty sure everyone says it’s for the center stage camera. No one knows if the local dimming algorithm is handled by Apple’s chip or is inherent to the LG panel such that upcoming 5K local dimming displays like that from MSI at <1/3rd the price will perform the same.
@taphil "No one knows if the local dimming algorithm is handled by Apple’s chip or is inherent to the LG panel..."
Well we do know exactly what Apple tells us in their new Studio Display XDR Technology Overview.
And what it tells is that there is a lot of Apple IP involved, which will presumably have to be reverse-engineered by LG to supple the AI that is talked about in LG's own marketing for their own version.
My guess is that LG is hoping to get an income stream from panels rejected by Apple, by selling them on to MSI - with LG's AI voodoo, not Apple's:
"Studio Display XDR applies proprietary light-shaping innovations from MacBook Pro, which preserve image fidelity while maintaining exceptional brightness and contrast.
A new machine learning–based content classifier analyzes frames in real time to further reduce the potential for blooming in media.
The display supports both P3 wide color and Adobe RGB gamuts within a single reference preset...
Timing controllers are generally used to control the timing and display of the pixels on an LCD panel.
Studio Display XDR introduces an advanced new Apple-designed TCON, with four processing pipelines, five embedded microcontrollers, and a local frame buffer.
The TCON controls the LED and LCD layers of the display separately, treating them as two distinct displays with custom algorithms to seamlessly synchronize them into the final image.
It also stores and applies calibration data to the pixels and the individual light characteristics for each of the 2304 LED zones.
Local dimming is controlled at 8x the display’s maximum refresh rate...
The TCON continuously monitors the brightness histogram and performs machine learning–based content analysis to understand the content’s blooming potential on the display, then adjusts lighting to minimize bloom.
The TCON also detects certain patterns that may be difficult for the LCD panel to display and optimizes the display at the pixel level to minimize artifacts."
All that sounds like there is a huge amount of image metadata that could be being extracted from the video stream and passed on to the TCON and backlight controller by Apple's A19 Pro logic board?
Well we do know exactly what Apple tells us in their new Studio Display XDR Technology Overview.
And what it tells is that there is a lot of Apple IP involved, which will presumably have to be reverse-engineered by LG to supple the AI that is talked about in LG's own marketing for their own version.
My guess is that LG is hoping to get an income stream from panels rejected by Apple, by selling them on to MSI - with LG's AI voodoo, not Apple's:
"Studio Display XDR applies proprietary light-shaping innovations from MacBook Pro, which preserve image fidelity while maintaining exceptional brightness and contrast.
A new machine learning–based content classifier analyzes frames in real time to further reduce the potential for blooming in media.
The display supports both P3 wide color and Adobe RGB gamuts within a single reference preset...
Timing controllers are generally used to control the timing and display of the pixels on an LCD panel.
Studio Display XDR introduces an advanced new Apple-designed TCON, with four processing pipelines, five embedded microcontrollers, and a local frame buffer.
The TCON controls the LED and LCD layers of the display separately, treating them as two distinct displays with custom algorithms to seamlessly synchronize them into the final image.
It also stores and applies calibration data to the pixels and the individual light characteristics for each of the 2304 LED zones.
Local dimming is controlled at 8x the display’s maximum refresh rate...
The TCON continuously monitors the brightness histogram and performs machine learning–based content analysis to understand the content’s blooming potential on the display, then adjusts lighting to minimize bloom.
The TCON also detects certain patterns that may be difficult for the LCD panel to display and optimizes the display at the pixel level to minimize artifacts."
All that sounds like there is a huge amount of image metadata that could be being extracted from the video stream and passed on to the TCON and backlight controller by Apple's A19 Pro logic board?
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After going back and forth with settings and swapping displays around several times, I now have the XDR in a much better place from a brightness point of view. It is similar in brightness to the ASD at the exact same settings now (which is still not what I would expect). There must have been something wonky somewhere, because I am back to the same settings that were nearly unusable before. The motion blur is still abysmal. I am getting flashbacks of TN displays of the past. I don't understand the point of 120Hz if the panel can't handle motion at 60Hz even.
@zesta "The motion blur is still abysmal."
I came across this analysis of the pixel differences between IPS and IPS Black pixel panels:
"A variation of IPS was developed, called FFS (for Fringe-field switching) that attracted only a little attention, until Apple adopted it as it gave better performance than IPS.
Panels that are described in specifications as ‘IPS’ are not infrequently actually based on FFS in reality... but with significant improvements in contrast for FFS LCDs.
As well as changing the liquid crystal material itself, a significant change has been a move from a ‘normally off’ mode to ‘normally on’...
The use of negative mode panels and the new material means response times are not yet as good as the positive mode panels, so IPS Black is not yet suitable for gamers..."
I came across this analysis of the pixel differences between IPS and IPS Black pixel panels:
"A variation of IPS was developed, called FFS (for Fringe-field switching) that attracted only a little attention, until Apple adopted it as it gave better performance than IPS.
Panels that are described in specifications as ‘IPS’ are not infrequently actually based on FFS in reality... but with significant improvements in contrast for FFS LCDs.
As well as changing the liquid crystal material itself, a significant change has been a move from a ‘normally off’ mode to ‘normally on’...
The use of negative mode panels and the new material means response times are not yet as good as the positive mode panels, so IPS Black is not yet suitable for gamers..."
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Kylo83
macrumors 603
when I done it both looked the same even when it was on the 2000nits profile, its like the display didnt look any brighter than the 600nits normal display
Then they set it up wrong. The XDR was shockingly bright at full. You could not mistake it for a normal monitor. I'm not sure I have any use for that level, but more images are being seen only on screens rather than prints, so HDR may become standard for photos.
Kylo83
macrumors 603
XDR is on the right, and it has a worse hue tone, both was on max brightness with auto brightness off and True Tone off, and on the xdd the profile was the 600-2000nits one so maxed out and honestly could not tell a difference, I actually liked the cool tone of the whites on the normal Studio Display, I dont think the xdr shows 1000nits as standard for sdr only if the light sensor is bright and maybe auto brightness on. sometimes like the iPhone you need auto brightness on for the higher brightness, but with it off and forced maxed it stays at 600 same as other one
View attachment IMG_1096.jpeg
When I open that image on my XDR, the entire screen got significantly darker other than the photo. After closing the image, the whole screen stayed dark for a while (~20 seconds maybe), but then returned to a usable brightness. This was all with auto brightness and True Tone turned off and the brightness set between maximum and two notches down.
Also, selecting the window the image was in sometimes made the image get brighter, but sometimes not.
So, it seems that there are some software issues, particularly when displaying HDR images/video.
Kylo83
macrumors 603
the photo is in HDR but the displays side by side didnt impress me at all, unless you use HDR the normal display is kinda the same, I thought the standard sir max brightness would be better but it wasnt
Starwolf01
macrumors newbie
I just received my Studio Display XDR and unfortunately the speakers sound worse than the ones on my Studio Display 2022.
It's quite disappointing.
It's quite disappointing.
tothemoonsands
macrumors 6502a
Did you do a head to head comparison? Unfortunately I passed mine along before I had the chance to. It could just be a case of "expectations too high"?
I don't have any disappointment, but I also don't notice any major changes/improvements. Bass response is the main thing that was improved I think, haven't really put that to the test.
djinn
macrumors 68000
Seriously? I thought from other people’s reviews they were fine. That’s a bummer.
Starwolf01
macrumors newbie
Yes I have both monitors on my desk at the moment, after using the original Studio Display for so many years I could instantly tell.
I don't know what's changed exactly but I'm bummed, especially at this price point.
azpekt
macrumors 6502
every speaker should have some time to warm up, so maybe give a new display a couple of days?
I honestly don't know if this matters in the speaker array such as in the Display, but hey, who knows.
I'm not convinced you're not trolling us; that you really are that weirdo user that wants great built in speakers and insists on a minimalist desk.
Let me try to get through to you.
Any. Speakers. In. The. World. would be the perfect compliment to your retentive setup. You could buy small pretty ones for $100. You could buy large accurate ones for $10,000. Maybe it's an excuse to buy earpods or whatever.
You've been had by built in speakers. Speakers that suck. Speakers nobody wants to hear. Because it's already in the box. Because nobody cares about built in speakers. Except for you.
I'm trying to say that if you care enough about music (even just audio itself) to login to this website and complain that they're less than ideal... Pfff. You're almost as bad as the guys that bought two XDRs without seeing if they could plug them in.
Take the wife on an adventure. "Get in, we're going to Best Buy to buy SPEAKERS!" and make a day of it. Do what you gotta do, man. Step away from the guaranteed black box mediocrity.
Of course we haven't had time to talk about speaker placement, which is arguably more important than the speakers themselves...
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