Stuttering and jerking during scrolling in different places of the system

[Vlad Koon]

Yeah, at first I thought there was something wrong with my Mac mini 🤔
System Settings also take a very long time to open, especially after Windows, where both the classic Control Panel and new System Settings open with lightning speed. And sometimes System Settings don’t want to open at all, giving some kind of error, which I’ve never had before on Windows 🤦‍♂️

 

[dotzero123]

Try swapping out your peripherals to see if any are causing the problem. I have a M2 16gb and had lagging and mouse freezing with an inexpensive Dell monitor. Replaced it and 0 problems. Also, you've read that restoring the computer didn't fix the issue, but it might be worth a try. If you are covered by AppleCare, I would definitely recommend you contact them.

 

[Vlad Koon]

I have a M2 16gb and had lagging and mouse freezing with an inexpensive Dell monitor. Replaced it and 0 problems.

I have no problems with the mouse! Read carefully the first message of this topic. In addition, I wrote that I have already tried Apple Magic Mouse.

 

[Vlad Koon]

To make it clear what I'm talking about, open the widget selection panel and scroll it down and up in any of the ways (using the mouse wheel or grabbing the scroll bar).

Scrolling should be as smooth as possible, with a stable 60 frames per second and without a single jerk (after all, it’s already 2024, and Macs have long been on powerful chips with their own powerful CPUs and GPUs). But the scrolling is jerky and constantly stutters 😱 To the eye it looks like there are no more than 2-3 frames per second 🤦‍♂️

But this is just an example. The entire system behaves in a similar way, constantly lagging and stuttering during something as simple as scrolling.

I've used regular Windows-based computers for decades, but none of the Microsoft systems behaved like this, even on old and weak hardware! I used the following systems: XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 and 11. Even Linux Ubuntu worked much faster and smoother!!! And here and now, at the beginning of 2024, I am seeing all these lags and slowdowns on a powerful and relatively modern Mac mini on an M1 chip with 16 gigabytes of memory. Seriously?!

 

[Vlad Koon]

From macOS I expect buttery smooth scrolling at a stable 60/120 frames per second and nothing else! Because Apple writes the software and operating system and has full control over its hardware (CPU, GPU, RAM, SSD, etc.). Once Apple has abandoned Intel processors and AMD graphics cards, it will be difficult for them to place blame on these manufacturers.

 

[Sptzz]

Example here:

Recorded with Cleanshot X. Looks slightly less stuttery when not recording, some sections are a bit smoother but this sort of showcases the experience of using a mac in 2024.

 

[meson]

For me, the fastest, most responsive and smooth operating system remains Windows 8. In general, all versions of Windows that I have used for more than a decade (XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 and 11) have been faster, smoother, and more responsive than the versions of macOS that I used on the Mac mini (which is on the M1 chip): 11 (Big Sur), 12 (Monterey), 13 (Ventura) and 14 (Sonoma). Using a relatively modern and fast Mac mini on the M1 chip, I often have the feeling as if I were using some old PC based on the 1st Intel processor 🤣 I’m still shocked at how long it takes to open System Settings, TextEdit, Activity Monitor and other programs built into the system 😱 In Windows, we had to wait so long for the launch of some large and multifunctional applications like Photoshop 😅 And on macOS, some text editor (TextEdit) or System Settings take an unforgivably long time to launch ⏳ What the hell?! 🤨 Apple urgently needs to do something about this before it's too late.

I'm not sure what to say about the scrolling. The videos I've seen seem like par for the course. I don't know if there some things that drift out of sync with input device polling rates, redraw rates, and display refresh rates. Perhaps they could do better, but what I've seen shown has been my experience on Macs for as long as I can remember. I don't have any displays in any device that spoil me with 120+Hz refresh rates though.

In regard to apps opening slowly, that is something that drives me nuts as well. Back in the Snow Leopard days, OSX was optimized in a way that most applications opened within a couple bounces, and that was with spinning HDDs. What I've noticed on my newer devices is that on the first launch after a restart Apple has made a conscious decision to not begin opening an app until after the first full bounce of the icon in the dock. Many apps that you would expect to open immediately do so very quickly after that first full bounce. If you quit and subsequently launch the app, it opens nearly instantaneously. I've never seen full documentation of it, but based on some questioning in other threads, I believe they also perform security checks to be sure the app hasn't been modified between restart cycles (again, this occurs on the first launch after a restart) resulting in lots of bouncing, especially on large apps. Again quitting the app and relaunching it will result in nearly an instantaneous launch. These are decisions that Apple has chosen to make.

I believe someone mentioned the amount of time it takes Activity Monitor to show processes. On that front, it seems they wait about a second or two to start the process and then report results after the first cycle. The default time between process updates is 5s. It takes about 6-7s to get the first results. Changing the polling time to 2s or 1s results in the first data being shown after about 2-4s.

Apple has always prided themselves on some of the more aesthetic parts of the OS, and with modern processors being so powerful, it is resulting in delays in some areas of the user's experience.

 

[Vlad Koon]

I updated to the latest version of macOS Sonoma — 14.3.1 (23D60), but the performance issues are still catastrophic, especially compared to Windows 😱 This is just some kind of insanity! It feels like I'm sleeping and having a nightmare or just going crazy 🤪

 

[dotzero123]

Try changing your monitor. I had an inexpensive gaming monitor and my mouse froze all the time. Not sure if this is the same issue, but it completely eliminated my problems on M2 pro mini.

 

[Vlad Koon]

My mouse doesn't freeze.

 

[naryfa]

I have the same experience on a forbidden build. Thought it was my build, but nope. I'm glad I found this post. I noticed Apple has a tendency to hush problems as if they don't exist and therefore don't need fixing. I'm in agreement with meson and also think that they've over-complicated, over-fortified and simply bloated the OS so that it hinders itself at this point. Ouroboros, really... I've built my machine for this precise moment, knowing that one day Apple will bite itself. If anyone's curious, Mojave doesn't have any of these problems, but it's also losing plain app support (i.e. Signal). I know some people DGAF and still use it. I prefer the newer stuff, however.

This issue is a huge regression for Apple - specifically for their own silicon. How can you boast 3x, 5x, 32849x times the performance and then botch the most visible aspect of that claim? LOL. But then again, they've put MacBooks on anorectic diet once and caused them to exhibit butterfly life endurance so... You'd think the connotation would light a bulb in their heads, but alas.

If anyone wants positive change, they've got to do their job and spam Apple feedback 🤷‍♂️

Anyways, thanks for this post. Now I know for sure.

 

[Vlad Koon]

I updated to the latest version of macOS Sonoma — 14.3.1 (23D60), but the performance issues are still catastrophic, especially compared to Windows 😱 This is just some kind of insanity! It feels like I'm sleeping and having a nightmare or just going crazy 🤪

macOS Sonoma 14.4 (23E214). No improvement in this regard!

 

[chet118]

To make it clear what I'm talking about, open the widget selection panel and scroll it down and up in any of the ways (using the mouse wheel or grabbing the scroll bar).

Scrolling should be as smooth as possible, with a stable 60 frames per second and without a single jerk (after all, it’s already 2024, and Macs have long been on powerful chips with their own powerful CPUs and GPUs). But the scrolling is jerky and constantly stutters 😱 To the eye it looks like there are no more than 2-3 frames per second 🤦‍♂️

But this is just an example. The entire system behaves in a similar way, constantly lagging and stuttering during something as simple as scrolling.

I've used regular Windows-based computers for decades, but none of the Microsoft systems behaved like this, even on old and weak hardware! I used the following systems: XP, Vista, 7, 8, 10 and 11. Even Linux Ubuntu worked much faster and smoother!!! And here and now, at the beginning of 2024, I am seeing all these lags and slowdowns on a powerful and relatively modern Mac mini on an M1 chip with 16 gigabytes of memory. Seriously?!

I completely agree with you, it's funny that my mac mini m2 with 16 GB of RAM sometimes allows itself to be animated in jerks, windows 8 was really much more stable.


I bought a mac recently and also thought that something was wrong with it, until I tried macbooks in the store, and they worked exactly the same way! This is crazy, apple still can't fix it.

 

[chet118]

macOS Sonoma 14.4 (23E214). No improvement in this regard!

since version 14.3, apple has added mouse delay and still hasn't fixed it, the mouse seems to float when dragging windows


my chrome stopped being smooth with sonoma 14.2, I tried reinstalling the system, it didn't help and


its interface has stopped being smooth, and scrolling has become terrible, the only browser that works perfectly smoothly is safari


I also noticed that macs do not support above 60 Hertz, everything above works unstable in most applications, except for applications from apple itself

 

[chet118]

I do not know where to turn, no one can understand what I am talking about and they tolerate all this

 

[chet118]

since version 14.3, apple has added mouse delay and still hasn't fixed it, the mouse seems to float when dragging windows


my chrome stopped being smooth with sonoma 14.2, I tried reinstalling the system, it didn't help and


its interface has stopped being smooth, and scrolling has become terrible, the only browser that works perfectly smoothly is safari


I also noticed that macs do not support above 60 Hertz, everything above works unstable in most applications, except for applications from apple itself

 

[chet118]

compare these two videos, do you see this?

 

[Vlad Koon]

since version 14.3, apple has added mouse delay and still hasn't fixed it, the mouse seems to float when dragging windows

This has already been fixed in version 14.4 (23E214). I advise you to update to it. This is a stable version and I can confirm that this strange regression has finally been fixed in this version 👌
As for the problem itself, I also immediately noticed that the windows began to move somehow differently than before, as if they were sliding through butter 😧

 

[Vlad Koon]

When I bought a Mac mini with an M1 chip, I still had a naive hope that Chrome would work noticeably better than in Windows, but again a miracle did not happen. In fact, Chrome on macOS works many times worse than on Windows! 👎 It is almost impossible to use it, especially when visiting YouTube. Therefore, I immediately switched to Firefox, which demonstrates simply miracles of performance 👍

P. S. By the way, the Safari built into the operating system works even worse for me than Chrome! 😂 Watching videos on YouTube in Safari is very problematic, because everything constantly slows down and jerks 🤦‍♂️

 

[chet118]

Это уже было исправлено в версии 14.4 (23E214). Я советую вам обновить его. Это стабильная версия, и я могу подтвердить, что эта странная регрессия наконец-то была исправлена в этой версии 👌
Что касается самой проблемы, я также сразу заметил, что окна начали двигаться как-то иначе, чем раньше, как будто они скользят по маслу 😧

this did not fix the problem.


I'm using magic mouse 3

 

[Vlad Koon]

Strange! This update helped me. I use a Logitech G903 Lightspeed gaming mouse with a USB port polling rate of 1000 Hz. I use this mouse, of course, in wireless mode. Try connecting another mouse, if available.

 

[Vlad Koon]

Apple still has serious performance issues 🤦‍♂️ We can only wait and hope that in the 15th, 16th or at least the 17th version this will finally be fixed, making the performance equal to the Microsoft operating system 😄 Even Windows Vista was much faster and more responsive than macOS back in the day 🤣 🤣 🤣

 

[Kep90]

same problem, especially YouTube, macOS 11-14 ( I thought this was due to a non-original ssd

 

[Sptzz]

same problem, especially YouTube, macOS 11-14 ( I thought this was due to a non-original ssd

Not just Youtube. After a fresh reboot sometimes its fine but overtime scrolling through youtube or long webpage is disgusting, just stuttery af, disgusting.

 

[Sptzz]

I know Apple fans are gonna dismiss this as not a big deal, but my phone scrolls smoother than this. It's simply not acceptable