So as long as you think like us then it will be all good ... noted.......... This is part of the problem. We're not the borg.
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No as long as you don't take it seriously it'll be all good..
If you go in thinking you're going to give the opposition the what-for you are going to hate it.
Difficult to see what purpose it serves here. Other political sites are available. What I see, is what occurs in most political/religion fora on non-affiliated websites. It becomes a venue for a sad sort of person to manipulate others, causing misery and discontent, all for their own sordid entertainment, for lack of a better description.
They use everyone, including the mods, and few seem to understand that they are deftly being played.
Thank God someone showed me how to ignore that forum on my New Posts feed. Doesn’t affect me now, but it still doesn’t seem worth the trouble to keep it around.
I’d rather see hearty debates on how tech influences us, and leave the politics for other places.
Distance from Disorder.
They use everyone, including the mods, and few seem to understand that they are deftly being played.
Thank God someone showed me how to ignore that forum on my New Posts feed. Doesn’t affect me now, but it still doesn’t seem worth the trouble to keep it around.
I’d rather see hearty debates on how tech influences us, and leave the politics for other places.
Distance from Disorder.
I think I understand what you are trying to say regarding being personal and directing posts directly at people. Am I understanding you correctly?
However, politics is serious. Why discuss it at all if you aren't serious? The problem is if people want to debate in the PRSI forum it often is not following the rules of debate and start bullying, taunting, and/or baiting. I'm pretty sure this is what you're referring to but I wanted to be clear on the behaviors I don't like in the PRSI sub forum.
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I completely agree.
I agree, its a dumpster fire, serves no purpose other then for people to yell past each other and that's what happens. The left yells at the right for XYZ, the right yells at the left for ABC, nothing really changes and people just get upset.
You get a good idea of who you can convince with facts and who will ignore anything you give them. The non-reasonable people are easy to ignore. I think some of the worst posts I've seen are from threads that start outside PRSI and then make their way there. Truly horrifying posts.
The moderation team has successfully, in my honest opinion, weeded out some major troublemakers from both sides of the aisle since the beginning of the new year. It's less hostile in there now.
The moderation team has successfully, in my honest opinion, weeded out some major troublemakers from both sides of the aisle since the beginning of the new year. It's less hostile in there now.
Hm. Well I found that I quite enjoyed the forum - and enjoyed discussing topics outside of Apple. The good thing about that sub forum is that on the site you get a cross-section of people who are primarily interested in Apple computers but come from many different backgrounds. Going to a political forum was never as fun. What you should do, imo, is moderate the forum even less. Unless somebody is outright name calling, none of this borderline stuff, trolling, or spamming you should just leave it alone. HackerNews is an example of a forum that's moderated pretty well. You don't get suspended or banned for frivolous things like I've seen others banned here for.
Also is it your policy to just ghost people who are banned from that sub forum or do you send messages?
This. I was suspended once (amongst other times) for saying something that only got me suspended because the moderator involved personally disagreed with what I’d said, and managed to mold that into a rules violation. The support team had the moderator’s back, as usual, and were rather rude in insisting I was in the wrong, whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact I’d proven them wrong.
I’ll stop while I’m ahead through fear of reprisal - because talking about specific moderation is probably grounds for another suspension
. But there’s definitely some biased moderation hanging over these forums, concerning a few trigger happy individuals. But then, you’ll find that in pretty much all corners of the internet. There’s a reason moderators are not a popular bunch, universally.I will also say, the moderation team must have individuals they target specifically, and will act swiftly and harshly should their name appear anywhere - in my opinion. Whether conscious or not.
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This too. Just because moderation is a group effort, doesn’t mean it isn’t bias. It just means everyone in the group has the same agenda and also each other’s backs. It doesn’t lead to impartial moderation necessarily.
[doublepost=1505562145][/doublepost]I do agree that the PRSI forum is a toxic waste dump that shouldn’t exist on a forum such as this, however. Because not only does it simply lead to hostility, but because of the subject matter it’s ripe for biased moderation too.
Burying this thread would only serve to prove the point many are making within.
It’s sad that quite often this forum can feel like a prison where one must tread carefully through fear of prosecution, rather than the open discussion platform it should be.
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You have a valid point and are describing human nature. The players have developed astute ways of manipulating the people who make the decisions. They get off on it, and watch carefully to see if their “targets” are banned, suspended or have posts removed. The subject doesn’t matter, it is the game that they enjoy, they love exploiting the “rules”,which become their weapon instead of a structure to prevent t conflict.
It’s impossible to adjudicate a forum comprising that sort of content fairly, so it ends up frustrating, creating bad blood and a negative view towards MacRumors as a whole. Mother Teresa couldn’t do it, which is why the forum should be banished to the realm of dim memories.
There is no objective question that without politics that MacRumors would be a better, more valuable place. With all of the conflict in play right now in the world, and all of the hate on social media etc, what is the justification for adding to it here?
It’s impossible to adjudicate a forum comprising that sort of content fairly, so it ends up frustrating, creating bad blood and a negative view towards MacRumors as a whole. Mother Teresa couldn’t do it, which is why the forum should be banished to the realm of dim memories.
There is no objective question that without politics that MacRumors would be a better, more valuable place. With all of the conflict in play right now in the world, and all of the hate on social media etc, what is the justification for adding to it here?
On the other hand, what happens in PRSI stays in PRSI. I don't recall very often (or at all) any issues with somebody following you out of that sub.
I guess that might be true for the people who seem to live there 24/7, which supports getting rid of it. They might post here in there for appearances, but they live for that one section where the game is played.
If people are only on MacRumors for political argument, then other venues far better exist to voice their opinions and engage in argument. My guess is that political sites are far less easy to manipulate, they can’t use rules or moderation for their advantage, and they get skewered and rubuked easily and it isn’t as much fun for them as it here. It’s tougher elsewhere because their game doesn’t work.
In the end, decent people are affected negatively by the behavior for a number of reasons, and absolutely nothing gets solved.
people certainly manipulate the forum - no doubt about that as it's easy to see, but what makes the subforum here so good is precisely that you have a very good stratification of users - different ages, races, nationalities, etc.... I've debated on political forums before but it's not nearly as enjoyable as discussing topics here. And you're wrong that people can't just as easily manipulate political-oriented forums from my experience.
I think they should just moderate the forum less and if you don't like it don't go to it. The other issues really is there can be a lot of low quality content. Would you rather have somebody like me who posts high-quality arguments and opinions and can be quite curt with their choice of words or somebody who runs around making jokes all the time and never says anything of substance? Do you care about rules or quality and content?
Ultimately if you rely on a mod browsing the sub once in awhile and volume of reported posts to moderate the sub forum you're just not going to mod it very well.
My view isn’t whether moderation policy should be changed, it is that the forum shouldn’t exist on a tech forum.
Of course people manipulate other forums, it’s common, a sickness of a certain sort of sad person. Let them do it elsewhere. The well meaning rules here, because they are stricter than most, enable them to be exploited to silence people who disagree.
Your high quality comments would add great value to a political forum somewhere else. Here, they are simply used as a target to create conflict. No one is actually swayed, no one actually cares, and there is absolutely no value to the words themselves. As soon as you write something they disagree with, they are tippy tapping all over the internet trying to counter it. People are not listening to your points, they are simply trying to counter them, get them removed, and maybe get you banned somehow for deigning to disagree.
Notice that I am not making a distinction on which side of the issues anyone takes. It doesn’t matter.
I don't agree with this absolutionist point of view with the forum. Even the Forum itself is called the MacRumors community. If all you do is post on the PRSI forum, perhaps that's a problem, but many of us post there and other places. If we take your view to its logical extreme, then why have a Community subform, for example? Why talk about topics that aren't strictly technology related? Not very many people would like that.
I understand your sentiment, but have to say I disagree. I've certainly had my opinion changed and when I've said something and somebody factually proved that to be incorrect, my view changed. In the grander scheme of things, complete disengagement is almost as dangerous as being manipulative. Internet forums are far superior to Facebook or Twitter or Youtube comments or New York Times comments because there is the threat of moderation and because people will prove you wrong since they have time - it's not about who shouts the loudest.
Unless you can show me that PRSI and other subforms that are non-technical have a negative impact on the community here I just have to say I disagree with you on this point. Is a discussion about North Korea really any worse than the trolling and baiting that goes on in some of the highly contentious topics concerning the iPhone or the MacBook Pro? I've seen (and participated in) very heated discussions surrounding the keyboard on the MacBook Pro - something that may have warranted a warning (not that I'm asking for it lol) and those can be every bit as negative as anything else in PRSI or otherwise.
At the end of the day I think -edit- the moderators should just treat PRSI as a subforum with very loose rule standards and just make sure nobody is being outrageous. The comments and actions don't flow out of that subforum so I don't really see a problem with it. People can talk about political stuff and also talk about their favorite Apple products. I know it kept me more engaged with the site when I could do both - sometimes one of the other gets a bit stale. The problems you have mentioned with respect to the PRSI sub can be handled by less moderation (in my opinion)- so those who are report happy or conspire or play the game can't get people banned over stupid stuff.
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I agree with a lot of what you write in your post, but your suggestion here will get users in trouble if they follow it. I would say that opposite: Don't think that the rules are looser in PRSI. They're the same as in the other sections, and in order to allocate moderator resources well, we've recently chosen to amplify the consequences of rules violations in PRSI.
Users who follow the rules in PRSI will be just fine (and the rules allow for heated debate!). Users who don't will quickly find that they've lost access to that section.
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Hi Annk, I meant that as a suggestion to the moderators/site owners, not us the users. Apologies for any confusion. I edited the post to reflect that.
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They also allows for deft manipulation for amusement. Some of the rascals over there are professional at it.
So. Like family reunions?
Some of the regulars kick each other in the shins , pull each other's hair and yeah at times it APPEARS we are at each other throats . But believe it or not we tend to get along just fine. Bet we. Could all meet for drinks if we were close enough .
So. Like family reunions?
Some of the regulars kick each other in the shins , pull each other's hair and yeah at times it APPEARS we are at each other throats . But believe it or not we tend to get along just fine. Bet we. Could all meet for drinks if we were close enough .
In other words, please don't shut down our little dysfunctional group, we'd all have to get a life.
You could start your own group, on your own nickel of course.
Only seems dysfunctional to those on the outside looking inIn other words, please don't shut down our little dysfunctional group, we'd all have to get a life.
You could start your own group, on your own nickel of course.
Personally, I find the PRSI forum quite interesting, and not just because my professional life involves the analysis of politics and political matters.
I find it educational about attitudes in the US, and, while I might argue that the content is too US-centric, I have been made aware of nuances and attitudes that I would not have known of otherwise.
As for the argument that "this is a tech forum", and political stuff is separate from that, the truth is, unfortunately, that they are inextricably intertwined.
Tech is too big, too economically powerful, and far too influential and important for government to be in a position to be able to ignore it.
Tech has transformed the way we live our lives, and governments - who are not all digital natives - have to learn to deal with this, and deal with it in a way that balances the rights of the individual with the needs of the state and the desires of the market. That is not an easy balancing act, and the intersection between tech and politics is one that will have an effect on all of our lives.
That is the 'macro' level of intersection of tech & politics, but, at the micro level, stuff such as the labour practices - or tax policies - of some of the tech giants are also a matter for debate as they are deliberate choices which have been made - choices that are both profoundly political and - yes - economic in nature.
I find it educational about attitudes in the US, and, while I might argue that the content is too US-centric, I have been made aware of nuances and attitudes that I would not have known of otherwise.
As for the argument that "this is a tech forum", and political stuff is separate from that, the truth is, unfortunately, that they are inextricably intertwined.
Tech is too big, too economically powerful, and far too influential and important for government to be in a position to be able to ignore it.
Tech has transformed the way we live our lives, and governments - who are not all digital natives - have to learn to deal with this, and deal with it in a way that balances the rights of the individual with the needs of the state and the desires of the market. That is not an easy balancing act, and the intersection between tech and politics is one that will have an effect on all of our lives.
That is the 'macro' level of intersection of tech & politics, but, at the micro level, stuff such as the labour practices - or tax policies - of some of the tech giants are also a matter for debate as they are deliberate choices which have been made - choices that are both profoundly political and - yes - economic in nature.
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That isn't the dominate vibe on that forum, if it were, I'd be less critical. It's mountains of misery of never ending trolling topics that are controversial, will never be solved, and are meant to incite and start wars. The signal to noise is overwhelming negative, has little or nothing to do with tech political and moral issues, and much is banal, uniformed opinion at a low level of sophistication due to the nature of the medium.
It really is a bag of hurt. Steve would not let it exist.
Steve did not want a phone that could not fit in your hand either. Forum is easy to ignore