LizKat
macrumors 604
... and then there's always the option to just take a vacation, even if it's someone else's idea. 😉
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Sub-Forum Banning
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... and then there's always the option to just take a vacation, even if it's someone else's idea. 😉
ThisBougieLife
Suspended
I often feel the anti-PRSI attitude comes from people who aren't really familiar with the sub-forum. When I first joined this site, from the outside-looking-in the PRSI looked kind of like a bloodbath, but I've actually found it enjoyable now that I've become more of a regular poster there. By now I recognize most of the users and know what their views are and some of it can get a little predictable and circular (which of course happens in the Apple discussions too), but I wouldn't continue to post there if I didn't enjoy it overall. Most of the regular posters are fairly thick-skinned and know how to behave there; I haven't seen any posts removed for stepping out of bounds in a while. And I don't understand at all the attitude of those who want the PRSI to be removed just because they don't like it. The whole point of it being a sub-forum accessible at the bottom of the site is to isolate it from the rest of the site and make it completely optional to post in or read. I honestly feel like these are people who didn't want to post in the PRSI, but did and now feel that the only way they'll cease posting there and torturing themselves by doing so is having the forum removed rather than exercising self-control.
And I don't agree it all that it "leans left". As someone who leans left, I find that many threads there lean right (by contrast I post on another political forum that definitely leans left and this isn't one of them), but it also depends on who posts in them.
And for those acting like the rest of the site is immune from the bickering of PRSI: really? "Steve would NEVER do this..." "Tim Cook is destroying Apple!" "Stop being such a HATER!" "**** Samsung!" "Apple is dead!" Yeah, real illuminating discussion 🙄 All parts of the forum have their bad apples and bad discussions. But I don't think any part of it should be removed. Those of us who've become part of a "community" here may wish to discuss things beyond that which is immediately relevant to tech. Just because you don't wish to doesn't mean the opportunity should be denied for everyone.
And I don't agree it all that it "leans left". As someone who leans left, I find that many threads there lean right (by contrast I post on another political forum that definitely leans left and this isn't one of them), but it also depends on who posts in them.
And for those acting like the rest of the site is immune from the bickering of PRSI: really? "Steve would NEVER do this..." "Tim Cook is destroying Apple!" "Stop being such a HATER!" "**** Samsung!" "Apple is dead!" Yeah, real illuminating discussion 🙄 All parts of the forum have their bad apples and bad discussions. But I don't think any part of it should be removed. Those of us who've become part of a "community" here may wish to discuss things beyond that which is immediately relevant to tech. Just because you don't wish to doesn't mean the opportunity should be denied for everyone.
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maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
Unfortunately, I'm well aquatinted with that forum, which is why I state its a dumpster fire.
adrianlondon
macrumors 604
Jesla
macrumors 6502a
PRSI is broken and has been broken since I've been here.
Nothing but a playground for a certain group of 'members'
to hound and beat down anyone they don't agree with.
As the owner of a similar website(different subject matter)
we finally divested ourself of any on going political sub-forum.
As a result our membership has grown at rate unachievable
with all the political animosity of the sub-forum crowd coloring
the entire site.
There are loads of places for political discussion without giving
those who feel strongly about such a foot hold in a forum that
has nothing to do with politics.
Oh, and the pro-active moderation in PRSI is terrible to non-existent.
If the owner doesn't want to pro-actively moderate PRSI then
maybe it's time for it to go...
Nothing but a playground for a certain group of 'members'
to hound and beat down anyone they don't agree with.
As the owner of a similar website(different subject matter)
we finally divested ourself of any on going political sub-forum.
As a result our membership has grown at rate unachievable
with all the political animosity of the sub-forum crowd coloring
the entire site.
There are loads of places for political discussion without giving
those who feel strongly about such a foot hold in a forum that
has nothing to do with politics.
Oh, and the pro-active moderation in PRSI is terrible to non-existent.
If the owner doesn't want to pro-actively moderate PRSI then
maybe it's time for it to go...
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I belong to a number of sites, that take a very hard stance on PRSI material and I have to say its refreshing. I'm not knocking MR, because unlike other products, Apple news has the possibility of PRSI content. With that said, we can make allowances for those exceptions, rather then having the exception to the rule drive the policy. Just my $.02
ThisBougieLife
Suspended
But you don't really seem to post there. Posting there frequently and engaging in the threads and with the regular posters there does provide a different perspective, that's all I can say.
I'm also a member of a forum that does not allow PRSI discussion, but it's a much smaller forum about a much narrower niche topic (conlanging) and one that does not lend itself to political discussion much. And yes, of course we could allow news articles about Tim Cook and DACA without creating a political sub-forum, but I fail to see how the PRSI sub-forum, which is one among many sub-forums could ever "color the entire site". That sounds like something that could happen on a much smaller site with much smaller membership, but it seems irrelevant here. When I first joined, I could only post in tech sub-forums and I was almost completely unaware of the PRSI sub-forum. It didn't affect my use of the rest of the site at all.
I also think the personality of the individual user plays a role here. Not everyone is "cut out" for PRSI, and I don't see why that has to be a problem. If you're someone who's not used to having your views challenged or arguing politics, posting there may be unsettling. I'm surrounded by people who are a lot like me in real life, so for the most part, I'm not used to having my views challenged or arguing politics. But I actually enjoy it when it happens (on here and on other political sub-forums I post on); not everyone does. And that's fine. But that's why participation is optional.
And my point about the bickering and nastiness that occurs in Apple discussions (over Cook, Samsung, etc.) stands.
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maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
ThisBougieLife
Suspended
I think you do need to be involved to perhaps not mistake something for an issue that isn't one. Change comes from within.
And I'm not saying there aren't issues, of course. I do see instances where bickering in the tech forums is moderated immediately, but in the PRSI forum it's allowed to continue longer. That's one that I could see supporting: more moderation and clearer rules.
But that doesn't mean the entire sub-forum should be done away with.
And I'm not saying there aren't issues, of course. I do see instances where bickering in the tech forums is moderated immediately, but in the PRSI forum it's allowed to continue longer. That's one that I could see supporting: more moderation and clearer rules.
But that doesn't mean the entire sub-forum should be done away with.
EnderBeta
macrumors 6502a
Apple should not have PRSI news.
Apple is a manufacturer of computers and electronics.
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
But sometimes decisions taken by Apple about manufacturing (such as the atrocious labour conditions in China) - or when and where to pay tax - and choices made where the profit imperative trumps laws and ethics - these are all political and economic decisions and do not exist in a vacuum.
To my mind, one cannot just look at Apple solely as 'a tech company', not without noting and examining the impact of its policies in a good many other areas, as well.
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The training moderators get and the fact that they act as a team, in addition to their individual forum experience, enables them to identify issues without being involved in the discussions in a particular section.
Keep in mind that there's quite a bit of moderation done that you don't see. I agree that sometimes more moderator resources would be very useful, but I don't think lots of moderation is a goal in and of itself. Since the PRSI section isn't a focus of the site, and because it paradoxically has required a disproportionate amount of moderation, we've adjusted our moderation policy there. Much less is now tolerated, and loss of access happens more often and more quickly.
As for the rules, we're always glad to get specific constructive feedback, so please let us know where you feel the rules could be clearer. Balancing the length and specificity of our rules is a real challenge, so we're always interested in user feedback.
VulchR
macrumors 68040
Every hobby or work interest has a political and social side, and, for many, there are also religious and spiritual issues to consider. I would imagine that any online technology community that forbids discussion about what is happening in the world would be dry, boring, and soulless. The debate about political issues in PRSI rather sheds light on the social importance of the bickering that goes on in threads discussing iOS versus Android, or MacOS versus Windows versus Linux. Perhaps most importantly, though, is that what goes on in PRSI can be completely ignored by every MR member who doesn't want to engage in, or even read, that type of discussion.
FWIW in my experience the moderation of PRSI has been excellent and fair, even in those (rare) cases in which I overstepped the mark and had to be warned. 😳 If you are concerned about a post, you can always report it and the mods deal with it swiftly and fairly.
FWIW in my experience the moderation of PRSI has been excellent and fair, even in those (rare) cases in which I overstepped the mark and had to be warned. 😳 If you are concerned about a post, you can always report it and the mods deal with it swiftly and fairly.
EnderBeta
macrumors 6502a
I suppose as long as the clearing out of the people not following the rules isn't being used as a means to weed out specific political views then it is a step in the right direction.
VulchR
macrumors 68040
I have been posting in PRSI for quite a long time but I have not detected any political bias. What makes you you think there is (or has been)? It's a genuine question, for in my experience suspensions in PRSI seem to arise from using extreme language or being rude, and many have been suspended from all parts of the political spectrum.
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Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
My issue with PRSI - and the forum in general - is somewhat different; as someone from Europe, who has worked in two other continents, I find it far too US centric in its perspective and pretty oblivious to - ignorant of - and disinterested in - much of what is happening elsewhere in the world.
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The perspective in discussion threads is of course a result of the interests of thread participants more than anything else.
I'm not surprised that discussions on a US site would tend to be US centric, and can understand how that could be frustrating for users who would like something else. Luckily there are other forums dedicated to political discussion.
It's difficult however to know how to respond to the claim that a forum ("it") is disinterested in and ignorant of much of what is happening in the rest of the world. A forum is made up of its users. I would imagine the degree of political interest and knowledge varies from forum user to forum user, and that there are many users here who are quite interested in and not at all ignorant of what's going on outside their own countries, but are here to participate in tech discussions (which is of course MR's focus).
I'm not surprised that discussions on a US site would tend to be US centric, and can understand how that could be frustrating for users who would like something else. Luckily there are other forums dedicated to political discussion.
It's difficult however to know how to respond to the claim that a forum ("it") is disinterested in and ignorant of much of what is happening in the rest of the world. A forum is made up of its users. I would imagine the degree of political interest and knowledge varies from forum user to forum user, and that there are many users here who are quite interested in and not at all ignorant of what's going on outside their own countries, but are here to participate in tech discussions (which is of course MR's focus).