Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Sub-Forum Banning
- Thread starter AngerDanger
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
That is the goal. It is a balance I think between too much moderation and too little. I suspect if we say tripled the number of moderators and really cracked down on the rules, forum members would overall be unhappy. I could be wrong.
You mentioned reporting posts. I will say sometimes I am surprised at what does not get reported. Often I'll be in a thread handling a report and I'll run across unrelated posts that are clear rule violations that have not been reported. I don't know if it is case of forum members not knowing about the report system, or maybe people think something was already reported.
I'd be down with that.Every Tuesday would be taco Tuesday if I was moderator
Who doesn't like tacos?That is the goal. It is a balance I think between too much moderation and too little. I suspect if we say tripled the number of moderators and really cracked down on the rules, forum members would overall be unhappy. I could be wrong.
You mentioned reporting posts. I will say sometimes I am surprised at what does not get reported. Often I'll be in a thread handling a report and I'll run across unrelated posts that are clear rule violations that have not been reported. I don't know if it is case of forum members not knowing about the report system, or maybe people think something was already reported.
I'd be down with that.
So did you take action against those posts and send warnings? Or do you only take action if something is reported?
Yes, I should have mentioned that. If I run across rule violations while in a thread, they get moderated.
The only caveat I would throw out is, one can't assume the whole thread was reviewed just because moderation occurred in the thread. I'll usually look a few posts or pages either side of the problem post to make sure I've cleaned up, and that is when I run into other rule violations sometimes. But if it is a 75 page thread, I'm not going to see rule violations back on page 12 if the instant problem is on page 65, for example.
Right that makes sense. I was about to throw my hands in the air if you said that you ignored the offending posts lols
You shouldn't have to waste energy doing this. It is obvious that a handful of people are addicted to arguing by the way they troll and leap from any issue to some pet controversy that creates a headache for staff.
What is the value for MacRumors? Is it simply the clicks for ad rates or something similar?
The place is the same, repetitive misery for most, and heaven for a small number who could easily find far better places to argue while solving nothing.
It's toxic and on ignore on my feed, but objectively speaking, it is a negative for MacRumors, which otherwise, having been a Mac user since 1985, is an awesome resource.
Last edited:
LOL check out the Live Coverage thread comments, that will make PRSI look pretty suave in another half hour or so. MacR (and Apple) can make some of the people happy all the time but some others may get there rarely to never, possibly by their own design.
There's a reason for the ignore button and even better reasons to just take self-imposed vacations from assorted areas now and then. But then I wouldn't want to miss the excitement at how fast those comments grow when they get to iPhone X segment so... ciao.
LOL check out the Live Coverage thread comments, that will make PRSI look pretty suave in another half hour or so. MacR (and Apple) can make some of the people happy all the time but some others may get there rarely to never, possibly by their own design.
There's a reason for the ignore button and even better reasons to just take self-imposed vacations from assorted areas now and then. But then I wouldn't want to miss the excitement at how fast those comments grow when they get to iPhone X segment so... ciao.
I'm laughing reading this; elsewhere on these fora, I was just - er - reproved - for writing about fountain pens (and special ink) while A Certain Event was being streamed.
Last edited:
Luckily that's not true. That's why the moderators discuss reports and posts they come across where they think there might be a violation. The whole point of teamwork is to avoid having to depend on one person's interpretation.
Of course, if it's an out-and-out insult, spam etc then one mod working alone will likely just deal with it. Those cases aren't a problem because to safeguard against mistakes we always document completely what was done, by whom, and any circumstances surrounding it. The forum software has additional safeguards built in to ensure that none of us can fudge that documentation.
You're just plain wrong here. Believe me, we've got better things to do than delete posts, send reminders, or suspend accounts. The goal of the rules is ultimately to make moderation unnecessary. If everyone followed the rules, we could spend our time doing things like tweaking forum structure and just being regular users. That's a lot more fun, and that's the way we can really discuss with users and make changes users want.
At the end of the day we know that not everyone will approve of the rules or how they're moderated. We don't want to lose users, but the fact of the matter is that some users want a different level of rules and enforcement. MacRumors is fairly strict, and that suits some folks and not others. Some users will believe that we are power hungry no matter what we say. That's just life.
I don't mean that constructive criticism of moderation isn't welcome, but sometimes we get repeated criticism of the same sorts of thing from the same users, despite those users always getting the same explanation. We're not making up explanations where we respond, we're not trying to defend what we do no matter what, and we're not trying to be difficult. Just today in fact we decided to reverse moderation because a user wrote in and explained. We saw the post in a different light, and realized the moderation shouldn't have been done. So a well-reasoned, polite message pointing out where users think we went wrong does result in our taking a critical look at what we've done.
We understand the wish for more proactive moderation in PRSI, but it's not going to happen. That section has never been and will never be the focus of the site. As mentioned in the announcement about PRSI moderation a while back, moderation there was already taking way too much time compared to the rest of the site. We of course take care of things we happen to see ourselves in our own browsing, but we don't monitor the PRSI for violations. I don't mean that anything goes, as evidenced by the three strikes rule that's now in place. It's just a matter now of "behave or you lose access to PRSI". So reports of posts in there really do have a concrete result.
You can't know this since you aren't working backstage with the moderators, but we're not fooled by users following others around trying to get them in trouble. That's a pattern that becomes apparent fast, and that sort of stalking is moderated. You claim bias, but the fact is that when we're discussing a post that expresses an opinion some of us find distasteful, we are very clear about what we personally don't like and what the rules actually say. For example I might not like the content of a post one bit, and I might even say so in our internal discussion. But I'm clear about the difference between my opinions and the rules, and if the opinion is worded within the rules, the post stays. This is how we work.
I can also mention that in any group of human beings someone is bound to have some bias about something. That's why we make sure we have a varied bunch of people on the moderator team, and have a group of administrators - who also are a varied bunch - to settle moderation disputes. That's also one reason the rules are so extensive - we try avoid too much leeway in interpretation while staying as flexible as possible. Not easy.
No offense taken, and it's good to be able to repeat information about how things are run.
I think you've made some very astute observations (and not just because your comment is positive!). I think it's completely normal to want to simply ignore a problem post. We even include that as one of the ways to deal with a problem post (ignore, respond politely, or report). Of course we want users to report problems, but it's okay if they don't, as long as they don't turn around and complain about things not being moderated. You're spot on about suspensions being something that happen after a period of escalating or continuing violations. Lots of users are surprised when we remind them about their moderation histories. And I agree that compared to some of the forums I've read, we manage to keep a fairly civil tone here (and by that I mean users and staff alike).
It was mentioned once or twice in the thread that it would be easy to find replacements for the moderators. With such a large user base I'm sure Arn could get rid of all the current mods and admins and have things running again with new, good people after a short training period. But those new people would experience exactly what the current mods and admins know: It looks really easy until you're behind the wheel yourself. Things appear black and white from the outside, but there's suddenly a surprising amount of gray when you've got to decide, try to be fair, and explain why you did what you did.
There is no reason to replace or criticize the Moderators- their job by definition requires some judgement and includes bias, none of which are a big deal. However, on a tech forum moderation shouldn't be controversial or time consuming.
That said, I bet that most of their workload come from one forum that serves no constructive purpose.
That said, I bet that most of their workload come from one forum that serves no constructive purpose.
After spending a fair amount of time in PRSI, and even starting a thread to do away with it, I can honestly say, some people come to MAC RUMORS (A computer site about Apple products, software, and peripherals), and go straight to the PRSI section. Some never post a single comment anywhere else. They really have zero interest in Apple or their products. I have even asked some members why they come to a Apple forum to talk politics.
My take on the matter is some people come here to incite others, or look to start an argument. Why, I have no idea. Many threads bait the reader, get them to respond and get emotional. Some defensively, some because of their beliefs, but mostly I find politics fuel the fire. Affirmation seems to be a motivating factor. They come here with a preconceived belief and then argue with those who don't agree with their point of view.
I always start my time here reading new posts. Many times there is a catchy line in the topic header that I have to click on out of curiosity. After I start reading some of these moronic comments I have to respond. I don't necessarily spew my point of view, but often question why a person feels compelled to come here and spread hate, insensitivity, or partisan political beliefs.
If you can figure this out, bottle it. You'll make a fortune.
Some of us enjoy debating and Apple products too. MacRumors is great for both.
You probably aren't the problem.
Some enjoy conflict and baiting, manipulating until they provoke the inevitable response. They theorderly reitdeftly to get people banned, suspended, etc. It ends up being a sick form of accumulating power, and the manipulator sort of gets a thrill by it, all while acting as a victim.
The best thing to do is not to play, which harkens to the original question of what the reason for existence is for this section. It is still a form of distruptive behavior that is a negative to the site, and well meaning people who believe that they part of the solution are being manipulated themselves.
In general, good leadership practice to get rid of disruptive people or programs. Send them to your competitors.
It helps keep PRSI content out of the main forums and give the editors a place to put sensitive but Apple-centric news.
--
I know Xen will let a person be a mod just for certain subforums and not others maybe we can get just a PRSI mod, that person can get the feel for the place and focus on it instead of trying to keep up on the whole board. The addition of the alternatives sub's I'm sure has added to the general workload since they seem to attract interesting characters.
In the end I like PRSI because I like the people in there not necessarily the content, the same for the alternatives to iOS section you can only beat iPhone v whatever so many times before you start following the adventures of other posters.
Last edited:
Are you referring to this thread? Posts in the PRSI section are not counted in post counts.
Top 50 Posters Extrapolated, July 2017
This has been discussed a few times (it was also a technical possibility with the vBulletin software, if I remember correctly) and there have been strong arguments for and against. We've ultimately decided against it each time it's come up because we feel it's more important to emphasize the team aspect of moderation. We feel moderators need to have a feel for how a user behaves overall, not just in one section. In addition, we want the moderators to stay acquainted with discussion in many sections in order to have a balanced view of the site's overall tone and what's expected of users in relation to the rules.
Finally, we're just not willing to devote even more moderation resources to the PRSI. Instead of adding mod power specifically to the section, we decided - after a long discussion - to tighten up how we moderate it in a way that means we spend less time on it AND there's even less tolerance for violations.
We could have done it the way you suggest, we've just chosen another direction.
Excuse me if I don't accept it because you say it is so. Actions speak louder then words and well meaning or not the system here is broken. That said moving on because this is becoming circular.
My comments are based on direct experience. I don't care to go into the details or revisit it. I simply am commenting based on the experience. You say it is false. I say it is true but it is undeniable that it is my perception. If this is not the desired perception that you wish to provide then work is needed.
Last edited:
Eh, I think it falls more along whoever gets reported gets the hammer. I'm just going to start reporting things I see that even resemble some of the warnings I got. As the mods have stated they can't manage the sub forum because of the volume (not criticizing here), and they largely rely on users reporting posts. Your best bet is to report anything that's even marginally close if you want to get the best bang for your moderator buck. Who knows?
Last edited by a moderator:
I personally don't see the benefit at all to just go reporting post and making even more work for them , plenty in the PRSI have thick enough skin whEh, I think it falls more along whoever gets reported gets the hammer. I'm just going to start reporting things I see that even resemble some of the warnings I got. As the mods have stated they can't manage the sub forum because of the volume (not criticizing here), and they largely rely on users reporting posts. Your best bet is to report anything that's even marginally close if you want to get the best bang for your moderator buck. Who knows?
I might be on the top if they did
someone did say I had the most "likes" out of McRumors
It really hurts me to hear you talk about the wellbeing of my thread so callously.
Winner, winner, Mexican dinner: https://forums.macrumors.com/members/?type=likesI personally don't see the benefit at all to just go reporting post and making even more work for them , plenty in the PRSI have thick enough skin wh
I might be on the top if they did
forgot how he figured it out.
It's not so much that you forgot as it is the admins removing the link to that page.
There are a lot of PRSI regulars on that list so maybe PRSI isn't as combative as people say.
Haha, perhaps! But I think the likes are from folks cheering two opponents from the sidelines; I've noticed those at the top of the list tend to have the same few people like many of their posts when they argue/spar/discuss/[some euphemism] with others.There are a lot of PRSI regulars on that list so maybe PRSI isn't as combative as people say.
If you come into PRSI with the right attitude you'll have a great time there @jkcerda has the right attitude.
I love your thread. At that point I was just acknowledging that it was possible that jk and I were maybe shoving it over to the edge of the coffee table to see if it would fall off. So I was trying to find the brakes... or at least get it back on topic.