zimv20
macrumors 601
the rule is 1) arm moving forward, and 2) with control of the ball. though Warner's arm was moving forward, he did not have control. ergo, fumble.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Superbowl Predictions
- Thread starter pimentoLoaf
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
the rule is 1) arm moving forward, and 2) with control of the ball. though Warner's arm was moving forward, he did not have control. ergo, fumble.
Nope..There was an unsportsmanlike penalty on Pitts (Harrison,removing his helmet on the field)..Even though it was post possession,the Steelers still would have incurred the 15 yard penalty..The Cards would have had the ball at the Steeler's 29 yard line...
zimv20
macrumors 601
rhett7660
macrumors G5
I couldn't agree more. It was sloppy at times but the last 5 or so minutes was great!!!
Don't panic
macrumors 603
Vogue Harper
macrumors 6502
I think LeBeau outsmarted himself in the fourth quarter of the game. Arizona played a lot of the short stuff to Breaston and James in the first half in an attempt to lure Pittsburgh to play their secondary up which would then be the time to get Fitzgerald behind them and make the plays he is renowned for. LeBeau did exactly the opposite to 'counter' the Cardinals gameplan (I wonder if the Cardinals had an inkling of this tendency from their earlier match up in the season). Put simply, I have never in all my years of watching American football seen a secondary line up almost 30 yards back unless it's on a last ditch hail mary pass. Fitzgerald punished them big time for that with his second TD.
Agree that it was a disappointing game from the perspective of all the personal fouls. Not sure if it was the referee being overly fussy or whether it was quite malicious in general. I do agree with John Madden that James Harrison should have been ejected following the appalling behaviour that earnt him his personal foul penalty.
63dot
macrumors 603
The NFL is saying now that it wasn't a fumble, but Arizona had no challenges on it and like all sports, imperfect things happen. This is how sports is played, you can't give back a down after the fact.
There was a call earlier in the game calling one of Warner's fumbles an incomplete pass and some of the announcers/analysts did not agree. It looked like a fumble but the refs called it an incomplete pass.
On the last play Warner clearly had control and forward motion of the throwing arm, but it was "close" enough to look like a fumble to the refs. From their perspective on the ground, I can understand the mistake. Most things like that are not reversed.
Videos of a couple of late hit calls show that the hits were unintentional and unavoidable but the perps were slapped for it. I didn't agree but I didn't lose sleep over it. Football is a physical game. On one though, Big Ben was clearly sly wrapped from behind and the refs didn't catch it. But a lot of Cardinals got a piece of him that day. Every game has bad calls, but I say this game is fair since bad calls were made to the detriment of both teams.
In baseball, pitchers always throw wild pitches in key points during the game, and the ref calls it a strike, and what would have been a walk and often a game changer, is ruled a strike even when the ball was not in the strike zone. The worst call I have ever seen was a high pitch that hit the batter but it was ruled a strike because it was said the batter was in the strike zone and intentionally leaned into the pitch to get a free walk. Slo-mo showed the ball way out of the strike zone and batter leaning away to avoid getting hit. It was called a strike and the crowd was pissed as trash and hard objects were thrown all over the field.
We could computerize sports and have software determine every late hit, fumble, and out of bounds call, but that would take away from the game. Hard hitters would be too scared to tackle anybody as penalties in football, more than most sports, are very costly. Heck, we would have to resort to "flag football". I wanted to see the Cardinals win, and see Warner get more downs, but the game was exciting and gave the fans a good 4th quarter unlike many Super Bowls of the past when there were clear blowouts.
joepunk
macrumors 68030
Hey! You Got Your Wang in My Super Bowl!
TMZ has the scoop:
TMZ also has the (NSFW) footage.
😀 a good reason to delay the DTV changeover.
TMZ has the scoop:
TMZ also has the (NSFW) footage.
😀 a good reason to delay the DTV changeover.
luminosity
macrumors 65816
The NFL is saying now that it wasn't a fumble, but Arizona had no challenges on it and like all sports, imperfect things happen. This is how sports is played, you can't give back a down after the fact.
Arizona did have a challenge left, because they won both their first two challenges, but it was under two minutes to go in a half and so it had to come from above no matter what.
Arizona did have a challenge left, because they won both their first two challenges, but it was under two minutes to go in a half and so it had to come from above no matter what.
63dot
macrumors 603
Is the the rule? Anyway, it's one of the sloppiest officiating games I have ever seen, but at least, to be fair, both teams were ripped off equally.
Back when I was a hardcore football fan, it looked like no QB ever would touch numbers held by Marino, but in the 25 years since Marino's height, the '84 season, with a few really good years after that, both Peyton Manning and Kurt Warner posted stellar, never before seen numbers that matched or surpassed Marino.
Warner may have lost the Super Bowl 2 out of 3 times, but his post season numbers alone gives him a trip to the Hall of Fame. Marino and Jim Kelly, non-ring winners, are there as are a whole host of players who have never seen a "W" in the Super Bowl.
We are blessed to have seen Manning (Peyton, of course) and Kurt Warner, and their amazing consistency, and along with Marino, those three are the best QBs in the history of American football. I know Warner would want another ring right now, but he's arguably the best QB in the history of the sport having posted a 120 QB rating for an extended period of time in the pros. He posted the best NFL season ever, and his post-season numbers are yet to be matched, and he does have at least one Super Bowl ring. That and the fact he didn't consistently play since college, or age 21/22, makes his feats that much more amazing.
That being said, the Steelers, during the regular season, had a very honorable defense. They didn't deliver on guarding the pass yesterday, but they did OK on the run. Throughout this season, they have posted some great numbers on defense and are the current "steel curtain" but of course, not the same as the '70s Steelers defense, who once held a Super Bowl opponent to just 6 points. I think this Steelers defense has a chance to get back to the big game and shut down an opponent to single digit numbers. These guys won the game yesterday, and a few years ago, and they can get the legendary respect they may deserve. But only time will tell if the Steelers have a "second" steel curtain.
zimv20
macrumors 601
i think the factors for determining "best" go beyond passing numbers. it has to include leadership, including winning superbowls and other big games. in that light, you'd be looking at Montana, Staubach and Bradshaw to be included in consideration.
and the game is more about passing than it was, say, 30 years ago. the kinds of numbers that Manning, Warner and Marino put up are stunning, and i think they're all great QB's, but everything must be put into perspective.
ike taylor did a fantastic job on Fitzgerald for over 3 quarters, but towards the end seemed to run out of steam. there's lots of chatter today about "why didn't they throw to Fitz earlier?". Well, it's because he was so well covered!
had Taylor not done such a good job, it would have been a Cardinal blowout.
it's difficult to compare this Pittsburgh defensive unit vs the original Steel Curtain. i'd argue that the defenses of today are stronger, faster, smarter, and more complex. if you put up today's Arizona or Indy offense against the old Steel Curtain -- i think it would put into perspective not only how special today's Pittsburgh D is, but how evolved defenses in general have become.
that said, i still think the scariest linebackers of all time are Butkis, Singletary and Lambert.
HUH???😱 Ever hear of guys named Montana,Elway,Aikman,Young, Bradshaw...Shall I go back to Sid Luckman and Sammy Baugh,or do you want me to just stick with the Super Bowl era? There's more to it than just numbers and passer rating...
I think the "second coming of the Steel Curtain" was put to rest yesterday. Until the current unit accomplishes this:
The original SC wouldn't have coughed up a 13 point lead...It's an insult to the original SC to mention them in the same sentence. And given free agency,the way game has changed and most importantly the way the rules favor the offense,we may never see a defensive unit like that ever again...
63dot
macrumors 603
Yes, looking at all those guys from the earlier days, Marino is the all time best. But add to that the last ten or twelve years, then you have Manning and Warner to add to Marino. Theisman, Tarkenton, Stabler, Graham, Unitas, and many others were great, too. Actually there have been many greats, of course.
If I had to pick three for all time, it's still Manning, Warner, and Marino. How many rings would each have had they had a Jerry Rice or Emmett Smith? Two have won the Super Bowl, one has not. That is not what I am measuring otherwise I would put in Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, and Eli Manning in consideration. Ring or not, passing or not, yes, there are other factors. As a QB, and what they can do in their position, I definitely put Marino on the short list and I have never seen any football book not put him up there. Sure, we all know he never won a Super Bowl. He was one of a kind, and when he retired, he was recognized as the best ever in his position.
If I had a dream team, besides Rice as WR, Smith and OJ Simpson as running backs, LT, Haley, and much of today's/yesteryears Steelers on defense, Shula and Landry as coaches, I would have Warner, Manning, and Marino on my squad as the QBs.
63dot
macrumors 603
I totally agree. The Steeler's D is certainly special in today's faster, smarter, more complex and stronger football.
63dot
macrumors 603
There were two instances where this happened. In the first, it looked like he may have had control of the ball but the replay is inconclusive. In the last play of the game, he clearly had control like Madden said today. What came out of that messy play was a spiral, something that does not come from a fumble. But that is neither here nor there. There were bad calls on both sides, but that's football. The Steelers were the better team that day and that whole season.
SlasherDuff
macrumors 6502a
Personally I think James Harrison should have been booted after punching some of the Cards. That was uncalled for
Other than that, great game.
Other than that, great game.
63dot
macrumors 603
zimv20
macrumors 601
i saw only the one play, the one he was flagged for, but yeah he should have been ejected. very disappointing behavior from a player who had built up so much goodwill from his return.
i hope the league fines him; i suspect they will.
zimv20
macrumors 601
they have 2 rings among them. Bradshaw and Montana each have 4!
i know that can't be the sole measurement, but imho it should be factored in. perhaps we should be looking at the win/loss % as a starter?
Brady: .784
Staubach: .746
Montana: .713
Bradshaw: .677
P. Manning: .665
oops -- i forgot one:
Roethlisberger: .718
fwiw: Marino @ .613 and Warner @ .564. Warner's lower than Rex Grossman! eek.
Roethlisberger's passer rating in the SB a few years ago was the worst in history.The Steeler's still won. It's an overrated stat that's good for the highlights on Sports Center,but doesn't necessarily translate to the best..Passer rating is right up there with time of possession in indicating greatness,dominance etc. Brady's passer rating when the Pats won their 3 SB's wasn't even in the top 5 in the league for those seasons. More to it than numbers and stats.
If you want to be considered among the best ever,you have to have consistency in your career..This is the huge knock on Warner.The five year dead zone in the middle. From the 02-06 seasons,he didn't do all that much numbers wise. His rating wasn't in the top ten,he averaged 5.2 TD's a year for that stretch. Great start early on,five year desert,nice year this year.Not to mention he owns two of the biggest INT's in SB history. Both pick 6's and both game changers. And let's face it..He was one yard away from losing his ownly SB ring.
If you want to be considered among the best ever,you have to have consistency in your career..This is the huge knock on Warner.The five year dead zone in the middle. From the 02-06 seasons,he didn't do all that much numbers wise. His rating wasn't in the top ten,he averaged 5.2 TD's a year for that stretch. Great start early on,five year desert,nice year this year.Not to mention he owns two of the biggest INT's in SB history. Both pick 6's and both game changers. And let's face it..He was one yard away from losing his ownly SB ring.