I understand your pain and desire
Yes you would think even as a minimum a hybrid dual boot option with a dumb or simplified touch screen when in MacOS mode would be feasible tablet option from Apple, but alas they know best what you need
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Surface Devices
- Thread starter Dave245
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Yes you would think even as a minimum a hybrid dual boot option with a dumb or simplified touch screen when in MacOS mode would be feasible tablet option from Apple, but alas they know best what you need
We have a Microsoft store here and I live in Shenzhen China, so they are clearly spreading. When I bought my Surface Book (late 2016) it came with a 2 year international warranty, with a 15 day return window no questions asked.
My understanding is Microsoft will simply replace the product if any issue occurs as the Surface line is pretty much all sealed systems. Personally I wouldn't have any concerns purchasing from Microsoft or a reputable vendor as they do stand by their product.
Q-6
The SB2 1060 is remarkably quite/silent on dailies and general use especially as the heat sources are in two separate places. When I ran Q-6's Corona benchmark obviously only the CPU fan kicked in which is on the top unit and angled away from you and is more of a woosh as Lisa Gade also notes
I just do not get this over comparison of returning faulty goods to the OEM, your sales contract is with the store and more often your credit card company, especially in Europe.
There are plenty of good stores that sell many fine products it's not relevant for the vast majority that there is an OEM store in town
Have you ever been to a Curry’s PC World here in the U.K.? They are completely useless. The problem is for someone like myself who knows next to nothing about the Surface line up, I’d like to get advice from those who do (that ain’t Curry’s PC World I can tell you). Yes I could easily buy a Surface device from Microsoft online but nothing beats being able to go into a store, psycally play with the product and explain to them that someone like myself who is a Mac user knows very little about their products.
Curry's or Dixons not been in them for 20 years LOL but John Lewis in High Wycombe with my sister to buy a rMB and she walked out with a Surface Laptop for her charity
. I walked out with an Arc Mouse and a DialSure shops and assistants vary store to store and local, many countries do not have Apple stores or MS stores and only authorised dealers. I can tell you 1st hand outside half dozen major countries Apple support is very average at best and often if you did not purchase from that dealer your out of luck more often than not. ie when we had issues with screen peeling on my 2 of the 3 Macbooks my sons had. I sold my IMac at work that developed a fault but because it was bought at Apple store in Regent street UK local dealers would not touch it in UAE. iPhone are not guaranteed internationally like laptops, but you may get some help.
Many countries you buy your Apple or MS etc products in supermarkets stacked up like cans of beans including piles of Airpods that were supposedly in short supply elsewhere, Curry's probably look good to these
My only personal experience with MS was on the SP4 I bought from B&H in USA in 2015 as they shipped internationally to UAE, I gave it to my youngest in UK about 3 months back and it developed a fault that was on factory recall, MS paid for return postage and he got a replacement in 5 days no questions asked
Previous to that his Dell was repaired twice by a home call technician over 15 months on the third event they just came picked it up and gave us a full refund, hence why he's using the SP4 now and I got 2200UKP towards my SB2
However that's not the point I was making
Whilst there is many good stories like my ones for MS/Dell ,for Apple many are US based where there are far more stores and people have a tendency to take their products direct to Apple for issues even if bought elsewhere. That convivence model simply does not work in many places or as I said previously under EU/UK law your sales contract is with who you purchased from and probably your credit card company tooFor the vast majority they simply do not have a local OEM be it Apple or MS Many buy online etc many have to wait for an Apple appointment etc etc. Apple have excellent service at times in some countries and more often than not are better but for most there is not a store within 20 or 30 miles so it's not such a selling point some think
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So I've been using my Surface Book 2 basically non-stop for the last 4 days since receiving it. While I've posted in the past that my experience with the Surface Pro 3 wasn't very good, I have to say Microsoft has redeemed themselves - and then some - with the Surface Book 2.
The hardware is top notch in terms of fit and finish. The display is excellent - the 3000x2000 pixel display is sharp as a tack with strong blacks and vivid colors, and is more than sufficiently bright.
No trouble docking to the Surface Dock for use on my desk with an external 4K display and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (the Microsoft Surface keyboard with fingerprint ID and Precision mouse). Also no trouble connecting the same monitor via the SB2's USB-C port; the display sends 60W of charging power and receives audio and 4K @ 60Hz video. The only real benefits the Surface Dock has over the USB-C port is ethernet, a couple extra USB 3 ports, and a second mDP monitor port (though the second display doesn't support 4K @ 60Hz, which doesn't impact me personally). But the USB-C port on the SB2 is sufficient to provide power, audio and 4K 60Hz video. Had I known it was going to work so well, I might have even skipped purchasing the dock (but wanted it for ethernet mostly).
I love being able to detach the screen and use it like an iPad - I've been taking it in to meetings for some notes at work, and it's a perfect multi-function device for me. I've been able to replace my 12.9" iPad Pro with it for handwritten notes (OneNote and Drawboard), and replace my MBP for virtually everything else.
About the only thing that is not straightforward to replicate on it is iMessage notifications, though I think I can use Pushbullet on the SB2 and something like PushPal for Mac running on my iMac at home. This should at least send incoming iMessage notifications from my iMac to the SB2 via Pushbullet. Not sure I need to since I almost always have my Apple Watch on anyway, but I think it's doable if I feel like it.
Otherwise, I've got all the services I need for personal and work set up and fully functional.
Battery life seems very reasonable for a 13" form-factor laptop. Runs fast, cool and silent, and the dGPU is there for when I need it.
The issues I had with my old Surface Pro 3 (i5) was terrible battery life, slow performance, glitchy wifi, hot temps and fan noise, the awful TypeCover keyboard, and - sign of the times - Windows 8. The SP3 actually runs way better today, thanks to Windows 10 and recent firmware updates, than when it was new, with the exception of the aging battery.
And the AC adapter is a worthy Mag-Safe replacement. The Windows Hello camera does very fast face recognition for unlocking the machine, though I do understand how it's less sophisticated and secure than Apple's FaceID (which isn't in the Macs anyway). But it's actually quite fast... practically open the lid and go to work.
As an aside, the MS Surface Keyboard and Precision mouse are both really nice. Again, Apple build quality and feel. Top notch devices the both.
I couldn't be happier.
The hardware is top notch in terms of fit and finish. The display is excellent - the 3000x2000 pixel display is sharp as a tack with strong blacks and vivid colors, and is more than sufficiently bright.
No trouble docking to the Surface Dock for use on my desk with an external 4K display and a bluetooth keyboard and mouse (the Microsoft Surface keyboard with fingerprint ID and Precision mouse). Also no trouble connecting the same monitor via the SB2's USB-C port; the display sends 60W of charging power and receives audio and 4K @ 60Hz video. The only real benefits the Surface Dock has over the USB-C port is ethernet, a couple extra USB 3 ports, and a second mDP monitor port (though the second display doesn't support 4K @ 60Hz, which doesn't impact me personally). But the USB-C port on the SB2 is sufficient to provide power, audio and 4K 60Hz video. Had I known it was going to work so well, I might have even skipped purchasing the dock (but wanted it for ethernet mostly).
I love being able to detach the screen and use it like an iPad - I've been taking it in to meetings for some notes at work, and it's a perfect multi-function device for me. I've been able to replace my 12.9" iPad Pro with it for handwritten notes (OneNote and Drawboard), and replace my MBP for virtually everything else.
About the only thing that is not straightforward to replicate on it is iMessage notifications, though I think I can use Pushbullet on the SB2 and something like PushPal for Mac running on my iMac at home. This should at least send incoming iMessage notifications from my iMac to the SB2 via Pushbullet. Not sure I need to since I almost always have my Apple Watch on anyway, but I think it's doable if I feel like it.
Otherwise, I've got all the services I need for personal and work set up and fully functional.
Battery life seems very reasonable for a 13" form-factor laptop. Runs fast, cool and silent, and the dGPU is there for when I need it.
The issues I had with my old Surface Pro 3 (i5) was terrible battery life, slow performance, glitchy wifi, hot temps and fan noise, the awful TypeCover keyboard, and - sign of the times - Windows 8. The SP3 actually runs way better today, thanks to Windows 10 and recent firmware updates, than when it was new, with the exception of the aging battery.
And the AC adapter is a worthy Mag-Safe replacement. The Windows Hello camera does very fast face recognition for unlocking the machine, though I do understand how it's less sophisticated and secure than Apple's FaceID (which isn't in the Macs anyway). But it's actually quite fast... practically open the lid and go to work.
As an aside, the MS Surface Keyboard and Precision mouse are both really nice. Again, Apple build quality and feel. Top notch devices the both.
I couldn't be happier.
If you figure out the Pushbullet thing, please let me know. That is something that I just haven't been able to resolve. It hasn't been a big deal as I always have my phone and/or Apple Watch, but it would be nice to figure it out.
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Well, also from first hand:
Apple authorised dealers are even better than Apple. And I'm not joking. I had just two experiences with Apple stores for repairs, one in London, Regent Street, other in Wien. First one worked like a charm, my MBP 2011 had a faulty battery, was only 2-3 months old. I explained I was on a business trip, and couldn't wait for repair. They didn't have the exact same model, and gave me a (slightly) better one! That was my first repair of any apple device (but been their user since only 2008), and I was delighted.
Second one was in Wien, but this time it was a 3 day old iPhone that simply couldn't turn on anymore. I waited for more then 2 hours, and was refunded (they didn't have any new iPhones in the store). Was pissed for waiting so long, and then going out without a smartphone.
So to put things into perspective. I work in Croatia. Our Apple authorised dealer and service is iStyle.hr. And I have returned more then 10 MBP devices in just last 2 years (hi Butterfly keyboards). Never waited more then 2mins, got excellent service, got replaced or refunded (depends on the occasion), and the staff was more then forthcoming.
Same thing goes for Hungary and Bulgaria. You get the same excellent service as Apple store provides, but without any waiting. I only waited once, but by experiences from others in this forum, and other online communities, that seems to be the norm for Apple. Of course, they are very popular, so it's to be expected. But with authorised service you get the same treatment, but without any waiting for long periods of time.
Granted, my only experiences are with the countries listed here, so I can't speak for any other shop or country. But I get the feeling that authorised sellers/service are really afraid of user complaints to Apple, so they all out to accommodate you.
To put things into perspective, try to get service for any other product in Croatia. Even if they are formally represented in my country (HP, Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, HTC, Acer, etc.), and play the lottery. I order my equipment from amazon, and for that I pay large amounts for shipment, customs, taxes, etc. I could go way cheaper by just purchasing in Croatia, but I don't do that. Why? Well, warranty for any other company besides Apple is a complete joke!
P.S.
Except OnePlus, they are excellent. But they sell just phones, so...
Well, you could have made this post a week ago...
I already ordered X1 Carbon instead of SB2. My main reasons where keyboard (even though everyone claims SB2 keyboard is excellent, I haven't tried it, but I do know that Thinkpad keyboards are top!), and the most important one was TB3 with X1C.
If I had known that, I would 100% order SB2 to try it out.
And this is the problem with reviews these days. Most just put out specs, say a few things about throttling, run some benchmarks, few words about ports, screen and keyboard. And that's about it. Ohh, I forgot. They also play games and give us FPS for some popular games.
But most of them never go into such details that are crucial for productivity. FPS in games is obviously more important
Exactly my point YMMV+
Well, also from first hand:
Apple authorised dealers are even better than Apple. And I'm not joking. I had just two experiences with Apple stores for repairs, one in London, Regent Street, other in Wien. First one worked like a charm, my MBP 2011 had a faulty battery, was only 2-3 months old. I explained I was on a business trip, and couldn't wait for repair. They didn't have the exact same model, and gave me a (slightly) better one! That was my first repair of any apple device (but been their user since only 2008), and I was delighted.
Second one was in Wien, but this time it was a 3 day old iPhone that simply couldn't turn on anymore. I waited for more then 2 hours, and was refunded (they didn't have any new iPhones in the store). Was pissed for waiting so long, and then going out without a smartphone.
So to put things into perspective. I work in Croatia. Our Apple authorised dealer and service is iStyle.hr. And I have returned more then 10 MBP devices in just last 2 years (hi Butterfly keyboards). Never waited more then 2mins, got excellent service, got replaced or refunded (depends on the occasion), and the staff was more then forthcoming.
Same thing goes for Hungary and Bulgaria. You get the same excellent service as Apple store provides, but without any waiting. I only waited once, but by experiences from others in this forum, and other online communities, that seems to be the norm for Apple. Of course, they are very popular, so it's to be expected. But with authorised service you get the same treatment, but without any waiting for long periods of time.
Granted, my only experiences are with the countries listed here, so I can't speak for any other shop or country. But I get the feeling that authorised sellers/service are really afraid of user complaints to Apple, so they all out to accommodate you.
To put things into perspective, try to get service for any other product in Croatia. Even if they are formally represented in my country (HP, Dell, Lenovo, Samsung, HTC, Acer, etc.), and play the lottery. I order my equipment from amazon, and for that I pay large amounts for shipment, customs, taxes, etc. I could go way cheaper by just purchasing in Croatia, but I don't do that. Why? Well, warranty for any other company besides Apple is a complete joke!
P.S.
Except OnePlus, they are excellent. But they sell just phones, so...
Well, you could have made this post a week ago...
I already ordered X1 Carbon instead of SB2. My main reasons where keyboard (even though everyone claims SB2 keyboard is excellent, I haven't tried it, but I do know that Thinkpad keyboards are top!), and the most important one was TB3 with X1C.
If I had known that, I would 100% order SB2 to try it out.
And this is the problem with reviews these days. Most just put out specs, say a few things about throttling, run some benchmarks, few words about ports, screen and keyboard. And that's about it. Ohh, I forgot. They also play games and give us FPS for some popular games.
But most of them never go into such details that are crucial for productivity. FPS in games is obviously more important
and as I also noted there will always be good luck stories with any OEM or storeBut I agree no waiting generally in IStore or IStyle
I have also seen some approved dealers also do not do 14 day return if the box/wrapper is opened
. I even had Harvey Norman refuse to give me a warranty if I did not allow them to open the box before leaving the store which was really weird.
+
Well, you could have made this post a week ago...
I already ordered X1 Carbon instead of SB2. My main reasons where keyboard (even though everyone claims SB2 keyboard is excellent, I haven't tried it, but I do know that Thinkpad keyboards are top!), and the most important one was TB3 with X1C.
They keyboard is really good on the SB2. I have spent some time typing on them on a few store visits and definitely wouldn't mind owing one. Even the Surface Pro type cover isn't bad. I actually like typing on that a lot better than the new MBP's.
I am still waiting to see what Microsoft announces in October. I am not expecting a SB3, but it might be a pleasant surprise.
I have also seen some approved dealers also do not do 14 day return if the box/wrapper is opened
I guess that is a means to guarantee that they have your money and "trap" you in so you can't have buyers remorse?
I had a retailer with a similar policy try to do something like that with me recently. Not refuse warranty, but suggest I allow them to open it and check for the latest updates. But the same sort of "once it is opened you can't return it" policy. It is a way to guarantee it never leaves the store unopened and unreturnable.
It’s getting more interesting, the Surface Pro has now been heavily discounted
Surface Pro top of the line i7, 1TB and 16GB Ram is now at £2,024.25 that’s a saving of £674.75, all the configurations have been discounted ranging from £200 to the top tier. Big discount really, that must mean an update at the October event?
Surface Pro top of the line i7, 1TB and 16GB Ram is now at £2,024.25 that’s a saving of £674.75, all the configurations have been discounted ranging from £200 to the top tier. Big discount really, that must mean an update at the October event?
I am guessing that they will get a spec update to Whiskey Lake in October. BUT if the discount is good enough, one option is that you could always buy now, decide if the update is worth the price difference or not and return it within the 30 days if it is
I am guessing that they will get a spec update to Whiskey Lake in October. BUT if the discount is good enough, one option is that you could always buy now, decide if the update is worth the price difference or not and return it within the 30 days if it is
That’s a good point actually
some of the configurations for the Surface Pro are below £1000 even the core i5 is, the i7 with 16GB costs more but the savings are at least £200 all the way up to £600 depending on the configuration. At the moment I’m waiting to see what updates Apple have for the iPad Pro and MacBook, if I’m not impressed with the so called budget MacBook they are rumoured to be announcing next month or the new iPad Pro (I want to see it bridge the gap with the Surface Pro) then it will be time to say hello to the Surface family.
Surface Pro i5 with 8gb RAM / 128gb SSD and Platinum Alcantara Type Cover on offer at AO (UK) for £749: https://ao.com/product/klh00003-microsoft-laptop-silver-60162-251.aspx
m3 / 4gb / 128gb bundle is also £649; i5 /8gb / 256gb at £999, all with Platinum type cover. All other configs without keyboard also discounted.
m3 / 4gb / 128gb bundle is also £649; i5 /8gb / 256gb at £999, all with Platinum type cover. All other configs without keyboard also discounted.
It’s almost certainly going to be an iterative spec bump, new colour options and possibly USB-C. Redesign late next year apparently.
I don't know why your store isn't on the store location page for me. I only see the ones in US, Canada, Australia, and Puerto Rico.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/locations/find-a-store
Pass, it's branded as MS, only sells MS and associated gear all with MS warranty that checks out online.
Q-6
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/locale.aspx
Many are business units or have links to authorised retailers
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Glad to hear you are happy with the Surface Book 2, sounds like Microsoft have stepped up their game. When you’re Surface device arrived did it have any bloatware on it? I remember years ago getting a PC and having to uninstall all the bloatware crap, anti virus trials, games I wasn’t going to play and so on, that’s one thing i appreciate from Apple, they never put bloatware on the Mac.
In terms of daily usage how do you find Windows as an OS? Does it lag, stutter or crash? That was a another issue I use to have pre 2011, I could be doing somthing and it would just crash back to the desktop.
I’m seriously watching this space, if Apple don’t release something impressive with either the new MacBook update this year or iPad Pro update then Surface device (Surface Pro Probably) it is. I almost feel like Apple have left the Mac out in the cold for the iPad Pro but they still haven’t done anything with that iPad Pro to make it a laptop replacement. As an Apple fan it’s a shame.
Depends on your perspective and personal preference
There's a couple of silly bits a game, solitaire Office 365 trial and Xbox but this is no different to Apples bloat chess, iTunes, GB, Pages etc all trivial stuff
Depends on your perspective and personal preference
There's a couple of silly bits a game, solitaire Office 365 trial and Xbox but this is no different to Apples bloat chess, iTunes, GB, Pages etc all trivial stuff
Wouldn’t call Pages trivial I use it a lot,
XBox stuff might be good tho because I have an XBox One 
I got my Surface Book with Performance Base today. Yes, this is the older model, but this was quite heavily discounted on the Microsoft Store so I decided to pull the trigger on this one instead of waiting for the rumored MacBook Air successor. For after all, whatever the new MBA ends up being, I would be surprised if it were faster than this i7 model with a 2GB GPU. The keyboard is also awesome on this Surface, so I don't have to worry about Apple possibly ruining also the new MBA with their butterfly garbage.
I've had only a little time to try the Surface Pen, but it's already appearing to be more useful than the Apple Pencil was for me. Turning the pen around and having it automatically work as an eraser alone is a killer feature for the pen.
I've had only a little time to try the Surface Pen, but it's already appearing to be more useful than the Apple Pencil was for me. Turning the pen around and having it automatically work as an eraser alone is a killer feature for the pen.
No 3rd party crapware at all. Did come with a couple of pre-installed Microsoft games (Candy Crush something something and a few others), but they're easily ignored or uninstalled, which is what I did.
Windows 10 is a very workable OS. It's not as pretty as OS X but feels more space-efficient, and still has some legacy Windows oddities (like having to dig in to the old Windows-NT style control panel to change certain obscure settings if you need to, but mostly that stays hidden), but otherwise it's definitely solid. No crashes/BSODs/lock-ups, etc.. Had once instance thus far where my external monitor wouldn't come out of sleep when I docked it, but it could have just as easily been a glitch with the monitor itself and not Windows' fault, and has only happened the one time.
And to be honest, on a high-DPI monitor (or monitors), having the menu bar stay with each app window (the Windows way) instead of along the top of the screen like on MacOS (the Mac way) is much more efficient for sure.
Dropbox works great, as do OneDrive and Google Drive, all mapped to folders on the file system.
My main apps are OneNote + Office 2016 (365), EndNote, Drawboard, Chrome, Edge, Adobe Acrobat DC, Dropbox, and the Windows 10 built-in email, calendar and contacts (People) apps. Also use a few specialized apps for work (Citrix, CareStream PACS, Epic Hyperspace and some VPN app I can't recall name of at the moment). Rest of my apps so far include Microsoft To-Do, ReadIt (a Reddit client), Inobitec DICOM viewer, 1Password, Spotify, iTunes (the Microsoft Store version), Google Drive Sync, Microsoft Weather (for the live tile on the Start menu) and Polarr for simple image edits/crops. All have been stable except for CareStream and Epic, but that's not Microsoft's fault (they crash on everything).
I'm careful to install only well-tested software to maintain integrity of the OS, but I would do that on MacOS, too.
I don't play games, but no stuttering or other such misbehaves that I've noticed.
I spent some quality time with Windows 10 via Parallels on my MacBook Pro, so I was very familiar with it before getting the Surface Book, plus everything at work is on Windows 7 or Windows 10, so I'm pretty well fluent in "Microsoft" regardless.
I do find that a little bit intimidating, but I have to say that the level of intimidation is about equal to MacOS Terminal for me. I would prefer not to use either, but at times have had to use both