Surface Devices

[kazmac]

That’s a good point actually some of the configurations for the Surface Pro are below £1000 even the core i5 is, the i7 with 16GB costs more but the savings are at least £200 all the way up to £600 depending on the configuration.

At the moment I’m waiting to see what updates Apple have for the iPad Pro and MacBook, if I’m not impressed with the so called budget MacBook they are rumoured to be announcing next month or the new iPad Pro (I want to see it bridge the gap with the Surface Pro) then it will be time to say hello to the Surface family.

Friendly advice: buy a Surface instead. What you want for the iPP and what Apple will do, probably will not be the same thing.

 

[SDColorado]

Friendly advice: buy a Surface instead. What you want for the iPP and what Apple will do, probably will not be the same thing.

Yeah, the new iPP definitely won't be a surface like a device. More realistically it will have a spec bump to the new A12 processor, maybe switch from Lightning to USB-C, probably gain a notch and faceID, maybe lose a headphone jack.

 

[hajime]

Interested in the Surface Book 2, X1 Yoga and X1C6. I read that the Thinkpads have Samsung SSD with 3000 MB/s for read and more than 2000MB/s for white speeds. However, the SB2 get 1411 MB/s and 1202 MB/s respectively. In Windows, does this make noticably difference?

Also, is it bad not to have Thunderbolt 3 port?

 

[kazmac]

Yeah, the new iPP definitely won't be a surface like a device. More realistically it will have a spec bump to the new A12 processor, maybe switch from Lightning to USB-C, probably gain a notch and faceID, maybe lose a headphone jack.

And a price hike!

So in a week, we’ll know what’s Surfaced at MS.

 

[SDColorado]

Interested in the Surface Book 2, X1 Yoga and X1C6. I read that the Thinkpads have Samsung SSD with 3000 MB/s for read and more than 2000MB/s for white speeds. However, the SB2 get 1411 MB/s and 1202 MB/s respectively. In Windows, does this make noticably difference?

Also, is it bad not to have Thunderbolt 3 port?

The X1C will likely have a Samsung PM961 or PM971, but is also user upgradable and you can choose a faster option such as the Samsung 970 EVO or PRO. I don't know that much about the Yoga, but I believe the same to be true of it. Surface Book 2 you can replace the SSD (not soldered on), but it requires a difficult teardown to do.

As far as the speed differences, it will likely be the same for Windows as it is for Mac and the answer is, it depends. For people working with a lot of very large files, it will make a difference. For the casual user, probably nothing you would notice without a benchmark program.

I don't have enough familiarity with the MS dock to know what that provides vs Thunderbolt 3, but I think using an eGPU is one thing that Thunderbolt 3 provides and MS dock does not.

 

[KarmaRocket]

If you're on the fence for a Surface device I highly recommend you wait for the Microsoft event on Oct 2nd.

Not many rumors about what they will release but they will probably have updated Surface devices. Probably use faster storage and better WiFi chips since that was a complaint of some of the Surface devices. Judging from the Surface Go, it seems they are listening.

I'm hoping for a Surface Book 3 with higher clocked quad core CPU's and would be really excited if they somehow manage to fit an Nvidia 1070 or 1070 MaxQ in the base.

 

[hajime]

If you're on the fence for a Surface device I highly recommend you wait for the Microsoft event on Oct 2nd.

Not many rumors about what they will release but they will probably have updated Surface devices. Probably use faster storage and better WiFi chips since that was a complaint of some of the Surface devices. Judging from the Surface Go, it seems they are listening.

I'm hoping for a Surface Book 3 with higher clocked quad core CPU's and would be really excited if they somehow manage to fit an Nvidia 1070 or 1070 MaxQ in the base.

Becaues of the longer battery life and higher resolution screen, I probably get the SB 2 or whatever come out on Oct 2 over the Thinkpads. The X1E with 4K screen is too heavy and battery life of less than 8 hours is not useful to me. Somebody mentioned that since it is not user upgradable friendly, the SB life is about 3 years. What do you guys and ladies think?

 

[SDColorado]

If you're on the fence for a Surface device I highly recommend you wait for the Microsoft event on Oct 2nd.

Not many rumors about what they will release but they will probably have updated Surface devices. Probably use faster storage and better WiFi chips since that was a complaint of some of the Surface devices. Judging from the Surface Go, it seems they are listening.

I'm hoping for a Surface Book 3 with higher clocked quad core CPU's and would be really excited if they somehow manage to fit an Nvidia 1070 or 1070 MaxQ in the base.

I recall reading something about the WiFi, which was that on? Surface Book with Performance Base? (first gen), earlier Surface Book Pros? I definitely haven't had any issues with the 2017 Surface Book Pro at least.

 

[hajime]

If you're on the fence for a Surface device I highly recommend you wait for the Microsoft event on Oct 2nd.

Not many rumors about what they will release but they will probably have updated Surface devices. Probably use faster storage and better WiFi chips since that was a complaint of some of the Surface devices. Judging from the Surface Go, it seems they are listening.

I'm hoping for a Surface Book 3 with higher clocked quad core CPU's and would be really excited if they somehow manage to fit an Nvidia 1070 or 1070 MaxQ in the base.

If faster cpu or gpu, there may be thermal issues.

 

[xraydoc]

Also, is it bad not to have Thunderbolt 3 port?

Good question. That depends. If you're just using the USB-C port for portable hard drives, maybe a small multifunction dock, or to connect to a single external monitor, then no, Thunderbolt 3 isn't really necessary.

If you want two or more 4K or 5K external displays, a high-speed RAID drive and/or an external GPU, then Thunderbolt 3 basically is required.

The Surface Dock, which uses the special Surface docking port, does have two mini-DisplayPort connectors (but supports only one 4K display at 60Hz; the other will be limited to 4K @ 30Hz, so I've read, or both at sub-4K resolutions @ 60Hz), plus 3.5mm audio, gigabit ethernet and a bunch of USB3 ports, and powers the laptop at 60w - which is plenty sufficient for the 13.5" SB2, but supposedly is too little for the 15" SB2 under full load like a 3D game. Interestingly, the Surface Dock will send audio over the DisplayPort, so sound is routed to my monitor's speakers without a separate 3.5mm audio connection.

The nice thing about the Surface connector is that it's a Mag-Safe type of connector, so like the MacBooks of yesterday, it reduces the chances of pulling the computer down with a trip over the power cord. Not foolproof of course, but way better than charging over a snap-in USB-C connector.... which by the way, the SB2 supports if you want.

The USB-C port on the Surface Book 2 will support a single 4K USB-C monitor with audio, and will charge the laptop with up to 60w of power. I've verified it works this way with my 4K LG monitor with USB-C (LG27UK850).

The USB-C port will of course support any other USB-C device (ethernet, VGA/HDMI adapters, audio adapters, etc). The SB2 of course still has an SD card slot and two USB type A ports too.

I personally don't require a superfast RAID or an external GPU (the on-board nVidia GTX 1050 is sufficient for me). So while in a way I miss the four TB3 ports my 15" MBP has, I honestly don't really need them. I'm sure some people do and for them the absence of TB3 might be a deal breaker. But for me personally, the USB-C port is more than enough.
[doublepost=1537935003][/doublepost]

I recall reading something about the WiFi, which was that on? Surface Book with Performance Base? (first gen), earlier Surface Book Pros? I definitely haven't had any issues with the 2017 Surface Book Pro at least.

I guess in the past there have been problems with the wifi chips in the Surface line. Not sure if that's still the case or not, but to be honest, the wifi in my SB2 has been great. At home, connected to my Apple Airport Express (ac) router, I get over 200Mb/s transfer rates to my ISP alone. Not sure how fast internally on the WLAN (I don't have an easy way to measure it I don't think), but 200Mbit/sec is fast enough for me.

 

[KarmaRocket]

Becaues of the longer battery life and higher resolution screen, I probably get the SB 2 or whatever come out on Oct 2 over the Thinkpads. The X1E with 4K screen is too heavy and battery life of less than 8 hours is not useful to me. Somebody mentioned that since it is not user upgradable friendly, the SB life is about 3 years. What do you guys and ladies think?

The surface book lines are more like current Apple MacBooks. You can't upgrade. So you have to decide if the RAM and storage space is something you can live with for multiple years. If you're not sure, I would get the Lenovo.

Personally, I'm used to not being able to upgrade so I don't mind the Surface lines. I think I would be more concerned about installing Linux and getting it to work reasonably. I want to play with Linux and be able to dual boot. It's not critical though. Just would be nice.

If faster cpu or gpu, there may be thermal issues.

True. Hopefully they can come up with some fancy solution like Razer's Vapor Chamber cooling system.

I recall reading something about the WiFi, which was that on? Surface Book with Performance Base? (first gen), earlier Surface Book Pros? I definitely haven't had any issues with the 2017 Surface Book Pro at least.

Initially, when the Surface Book lines were released they had some issues with WiFi and Storage speeds. Some Reddit users blamed the Marvel chips Microsoft used. Microsoft eventually partially fixed these issues with firmware updates, but some people complained about them using the "cheaper" chips for such a premium device. I think the Surface Go and later iterations of Surface Pro use the Intel Wireless and storage chips.

I would love to see Thunderbolt 3 as well. That would be a welcome edition. If they use the Whiskey Lake chips they have enough PCIe lanes for discrete graphics, Surface Connect and Thunderbolt 3. Something they couldn't do before with the Intel chips they used last year.

I'm surprised I'm more excited for a Microsoft event than an Apple event

 

[hajime]

The surface book lines are more like current Apple MacBooks. You can't upgrade. So you have to decide if the RAM and storage space is something you can live with for multiple years. If you're not sure, I would get the Lenovo.

Personally, I'm used to not being able to upgrade so I don't mind the Surface lines. I think I would be more concerned about installing Linux and getting it to work reasonably. I want to play with Linux and be able to dual boot. It's not critical though. Just would be nice.



True. Hopefully they can come up with some fancy solution like Razer's Vapor Chamber cooling system.



Initially, when the Surface Book lines were released they had some issues with WiFi and Storage speeds. Some Reddit users blamed the Marvel chips Microsoft used. Microsoft eventually partially fixed these issues with firmware updates, but some people complained about them using the "cheaper" chips for such a premium device. I think the Surface Go and later iterations of Surface Pro use the Intel Wireless and storage chips.

I would love to see Thunderbolt 3 as well. That would be a welcome edition. If they use the Whiskey Lake chips they have enough PCIe lanes for discrete graphics, Surface Connect and Thunderbolt 3. Something they couldn't do before with the Intel chips they used last year.

I'm surprised I'm more excited for a Microsoft event than an Apple event

Thanks for the reminder. For a portable machine, 16GB RAM and 1TB are sufficient. For work that require long term simulations, no laptop will satisfy me because: 1) I cannot run simulations continuosuly while carrying the laptop; 2) It will be very hot and the fan will drive me crazy; 3) I will probably need 32-64GB or even more RAM. So, I guess there is no escape but to get a lightweight laptop with high resolutions and no noisy fan + a DIY workstation.
[doublepost=1537975891][/doublepost]

Good question. That depends. If you're just using the USB-C port for portable hard drives, maybe a small multifunction dock, or to connect to a single external monitor, then no, Thunderbolt 3 isn't really necessary.

If you want two or more 4K or 5K external displays, a high-speed RAID drive and/or an external GPU, then Thunderbolt 3 basically is required.

The Surface Dock, which uses the special Surface docking port, does have two mini-DisplayPort connectors (but supports only one 4K display at 60Hz; the other will be limited to 4K @ 30Hz, so I've read, or both at sub-4K resolutions @ 60Hz), plus 3.5mm audio, gigabit ethernet and a bunch of USB3 ports, and powers the laptop at 60w - which is plenty sufficient for the 13.5" SB2, but supposedly is too little for the 15" SB2 under full load like a 3D game. Interestingly, the Surface Dock will send audio over the DisplayPort, so sound is routed to my monitor's speakers without a separate 3.5mm audio connection.

The nice thing about the Surface connector is that it's a Mag-Safe type of connector, so like the MacBooks of yesterday, it reduces the chances of pulling the computer down with a trip over the power cord. Not foolproof of course, but way better than charging over a snap-in USB-C connector.... which by the way, the SB2 supports if you want.

The USB-C port on the Surface Book 2 will support a single 4K USB-C monitor with audio, and will charge the laptop with up to 60w of power. I've verified it works this way with my 4K LG monitor with USB-C (LG27UK850).

The USB-C port will of course support any other USB-C device (ethernet, VGA/HDMI adapters, audio adapters, etc). The SB2 of course still has an SD card slot and two USB type A ports too.

I personally don't require a superfast RAID or an external GPU (the on-board nVidia GTX 1050 is sufficient for me). So while in a way I miss the four TB3 ports my 15" MBP has, I honestly don't really need them. I'm sure some people do and for them the absence of TB3 might be a deal breaker. But for me personally, the USB-C port is more than enough.
[doublepost=1537935003][/doublepost]
I guess in the past there have been problems with the wifi chips in the Surface line. Not sure if that's still the case or not, but to be honest, the wifi in my SB2 has been great. At home, connected to my Apple Airport Express (ac) router, I get over 200Mb/s transfer rates to my ISP alone. Not sure how fast internally on the WLAN (I don't have an easy way to measure it I don't think), but 200Mbit/sec is fast enough for me.

I only need to connect to one 4K TV at 60Hz with Chroma 4:4:4 for sharp text and images. My desk can only handle one 49" TV. Given a choice, should I use USB3 or Displayport? In case of USB3, is 3rd party adapters such as the Anker USBC to HDMI 2.0 adapter OK? The one shold by MS seems to be big and heavy.

 

[xraydoc]

I only need to connect to one 4K TV at 60Hz with Chroma 4:4:4 for sharp text and images. My desk can only handle one 49" TV. Given a choice, should I use USB3 or Displayport? In case of USB3, is 3rd party adapters such as the Anker USBC to HDMI 2.0 adapter OK? The one shold by MS seems to be big and heavy.

If your monitor supports a direct USB-C input, that's the easiest way - no adapters to worry about.

If not, then I personally suggest DisplayPort. HDMI is a mess with different revisions and cables, some supporting certain features and not others, active versus passive HDMI adapters, etc. DisplayPort is much simpler IMHO... just works.

On the SB2, you've got the choice of using the Microsoft Surface Dock (via the proprietary Surface Connector) or via a USB-C dongle. Your choice but the Surface Dock also gives you ethernet and extra USB-A ports, leaving the USB-C port available for other stuff. I think I paid around $120 for the Dock on special somewhere, so there is some cost to it.

The Dock has two mDP ports, which will work with mDP to HDMI adapters if necessary. No experience, but I've read to make sure you use active adapters for best results.

I wouldn't be surprised, however, if in a couple weeks a new Dock version comes out with an on-board USB-C connector. Microsoft currently sells a stand-alone Surface Connector to USB-C adapter....

 

[Rockadile]

The surface book lines are more like current Apple MacBooks. You can't upgrade. So you have to decide if the RAM and storage space is something you can live with for multiple years. If you're not sure, I would get the Lenovo.

Personally, I'm used to not being able to upgrade so I don't mind the Surface lines. I think I would be more concerned about installing Linux and getting it to work reasonably. I want to play with Linux and be able to dual boot. It's not critical though. Just would be nice.



True. Hopefully they can come up with some fancy solution like Razer's Vapor Chamber cooling system.



Initially, when the Surface Book lines were released they had some issues with WiFi and Storage speeds. Some Reddit users blamed the Marvel chips Microsoft used. Microsoft eventually partially fixed these issues with firmware updates, but some people complained about them using the "cheaper" chips for such a premium device. I think the Surface Go and later iterations of Surface Pro use the Intel Wireless and storage chips.

I would love to see Thunderbolt 3 as well. That would be a welcome edition. If they use the Whiskey Lake chips they have enough PCIe lanes for discrete graphics, Surface Connect and Thunderbolt 3. Something they couldn't do before with the Intel chips they used last year.

I'm surprised I'm more excited for a Microsoft event than an Apple event

Pity the Surface Dock doesn't have Thunderbolt at least. They used up the remaining lanes for the Surface Connect port so using Whiskey Lake for more lanes is indeed the only choice unless they scrap Connect for Thunderbolt.

 

[xraydoc]

So this leak shows a "Surface Pro 6" to be essentially exactly the same as the SP2017 but with an 8th gen processor and slightly different case corners. No USB-C or any other changes. Sounds like something Apple would do.

Makes me like my Surface Book 2 even more.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-surface-pro-6-leak/

 

[kazmac]

C’mon, Surface Studio 2!

 

[SDColorado]

C’mon, Surface Studio 2!

I think the only real question is, does it come in October or Spring. Microsoft has a working code name for it “Capitola.” So it appears to be in development, just a matter of when?

Not expected, but if they announce an updated Surface 3 with USB-C that would be intriguing. If it comes in the leaked black color of the surface laptop, I am in!

The black magnesium alloy looks so much better than Apples Space B̶r̶o̶w̶n̶ Gray.

 

[kazmac]

I think the only real question is, does it come in October or Spring. Microsoft has a working code name for it “Capitola.” So it appears to be in development, just a matter of when?

Not expected, but if they announce an updated Surface 3 with USB-C that would be intriguing. If it comes in the leaked black color of the surface laptop, I am in!

The black magnesium alloy looks so much better than Apples Space B̶r̶o̶w̶n̶ Gray.

The black is beautiful. I wish Apple never got rid of that slate iP5 shade, this Surface black reminds me of that.

Re: Surface Studio 2, I can wait, but the thrill of a new model being revealed would be so cool.

 

[SDColorado]

The black is beautiful. I wish Apple never got rid of that slate iP5 shade, this Surface black reminds me of that.

Re: Surface Studio 2, I can wait, but the thrill of a new model being revealed would be so cool.

iPod Nano had a nice black anodized finish at one point as well. There was also an iPod nano in a graphite color that wasn't too bad. Meanwhile even Apple can't figure out exactly what "space gray" is and has had about half a dozen different shades of it.

 

[kazmac]

iPod Nano had a nice black anodized finish at one point as well. There was also an iPod nano in a graphite color that wasn't too bad. Meanwhile even Apple can't figure out exactly what "space gray" is and has had about half a dozen different shades of it.

I’d forgotten about that Nano.

Well said about space gray. It was nice on the 6...but going forward

 

[SDColorado]

Those that have a Surface Pro or SurfaceBook, post pictures of you’re set up, it would be great to see people’s pictures of their Surface devices

Some additional “setup”, how you use your Surface pics from this past weekend on a moto-camping trip.

 

[Dave245]

Some additional “setup”, how you use your Surface pics from this past weekend on a moto-camping trip.

The Surface is very portable then how was you’re batrery life on the camping trip? Does it compare to the MacBook?

 

[SDColorado]

The Surface is very portable then how was you’re batrery life on the camping trip? Does it compare to the MacBook?

Dave,

Hi. I don't have much familiarity with the MacBook, I have never owned one and honestly know very little about them. Having a quick look at the Macbook's specs though, I would expect similar battery life with the same configurations/optimizations.

Both have similar size batteries from what I can tell (41.5 w/h aprox. for the MacBook and 45 w/h for the Surface Pro). Both seem to offer similar configurations for processors from the fanless M3 through the i7 and similar RAM configurations at 8 or 16.

Where the Surface Pro may consume a bit more energy is with the higher resolution screen and if you opt for the larger SSD and the Iris Pro 640 graphics over the base 615 of the Surface Pro M3 and the Macbook. I don't know what the impact would be.

My particular Surface Pro configuration is the i7/16/512 model with the Iris Pro 640 graphics. The i7 model does have a fan, which doesn't use much power in itself, but it does mean the processor is consuming more energy and needs one.

The M3 and i5 models will probably be more directly comparable to the MacBook, but I get approx. 7 hours on this one for my needs, using the power slider in the "better battery life" mode." I could probably do further optimizations to stretch a little more life out of it.

Buying a 12v car adapter is a big part of what enhances the portability for me though since I can charge it in the car or on the bike. An option the MacBook doesn't have, in addition to it not being a 2-1, which is really why I don't know much about them. I don't really have any interest in a 12" display if it isn't a 2-1 device. Otherwise, I would opt for the 13" MBP.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The Surface is very portable then how was you’re batrery life on the camping trip? Does it compare to the MacBook?

I gifted my 2015 rMB to my eldest and got a 2015 SP4, the 1st gen SP4's were a little behind on endurance to the rMB but that delta has diminished and maybe more so tomorrow

However you are talking two entirely different class of laptop/ 2in 1 not just because of form factor, or touch screen but options means you can spec the SP well pass IPP/rMB and in to MBP territory

No equivalent comparison from Apple unless you want to bundle 2 devices

 

[SDColorado]

No equivalent comparison from Apple unless you want to bundle 2 devices

Agree. The closest equivalent in terms of battery capacity, processors, screen size is the MacBook I suppose. But that is pretty much where the comparisons begin and end.