Surface Devices

[SteveJUAE]

Agree. The closest equivalent in terms of battery capacity, processors, screen size is the MacBook I suppose. But that is pretty much where the comparisons begin and end.

Absolutely

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my rMB and the Mrs still has hers (Running Bootcamp full time)

The form factor is great and I think many would use their laptops more if they got a rMB over an over spec'd MBP 13" just because it's so convenient. I certainly gained some insight in to minimal spec usage and what's really required for dailies and general use.

On paper the rMB is a bit niche and expensive and all about portability. When I jump on the Mrs one to do some bits for her I have forgotten how much you had to adapt to that KB and of course it was early USB-C dongle days

 

[SDColorado]

Absolutely

Don't get me wrong I enjoyed my rMB and the Mrs still has hers (Running Bootcamp full time)

The form factor is great and I think many would use their laptops more if they got a rMB over an over spec'd MBP 13" just because it's so convenient. I certainly gained some insight in to minimal spec usage and what's really required for dailies and general use.

On paper the rMB is a bit niche and expensive and all about portability. When I jump on the Mrs one to do some bits for her I have forgotten how much you had to adapt to that KB and of course it was early USB-C dongle days

At least the availability of dongles is getting to be more prevalent. But would it have killed Apple to have at least included a micro-sd card slot?

The keyboard is one of my biggest issues with all of the current MBP line. The 3rd gen is a bit of an improvement with noise, but it doesn't solve the low key travel issue. Some folks like it, I am not a fan. Even more so, with my own 2018 MPB trial, I had some issues with keys not always responding on first press, which gave me a lack of confidence that the issue was really fixed. That and I still down trust the display coatings after having to have the screen replaced twice on my 13" for the "stain-gate" issue. The MPB is literally the only laptop I have ever owned where I fear having to clean the display, even with a microfiber and water

 

[Roadstar]

The keyboard is one of my biggest issues with all of the current MBP line. The 3rd gen is a bit of an improvement with noise, but it doesn't solve the low key travel issue. Some folks like it, I am not a fan. Even more so, with my own 2018 MPB trial, I had some issues with keys not always responding on first press, which gave me a lack of confidence that the issue was really fixed. That and I still down trust the display coatings after having to have the screen replaced twice on my 13" for the "stain-gate" issue. The MPB is literally the only laptop I have ever owned where I fear having to clean the display, even with a microfiber and water

Same here, one of the main reasons I was hunting for a laptop for quite a while was that I didn't want the garbage keyboard that Apple ships in most of its line nowadays. I was also holding out for the rumored new MacBook Air with a retina display (even though the keyboard is fine on the current one, I'm not going to get a low-DPI screen at this point especially with Mojave being designed for a retina screen), but I was also afraid that Apple's going to ruin it with the new unreliable horrible-to-type keyboard.

When the Surface Book I'm writing this on was discounted to the MacBook Air price range, it didn't take me long to pull the trigger on ordering one. I'm glad I did especially because of the keyboard. The typing feel on this Performance Base is great, and on top of that I get performance that I'd most likely only dream about on a MacBook Air.

 

[Dave245]

I gifted my 2015 rMB to my eldest and got a 2015 SP4, the 1st gen SP4's were a little behind on endurance to the rMB but that delta has diminished and maybe more so tomorrow

However you are talking two entirely different class of laptop/ 2in 1 not just because of form factor, or touch screen but options means you can spec the SP well pass IPP/rMB and in to MBP territory

No equivalent comparison from Apple unless you want to bundle 2 devices

The reason I me mentioned the MacBook is because at this point it’s betwen the MacBook or getting a Surface, however I’m willing to hold off for this month (providing Apple hold an event) and see what the rumoured new MacBook /Air update is going to be.

As someone who writes A LOT I need a great computer, the MacBook keys don’t seem to bother me (from what I’ve tried in store) and while I like my iPad Pro I’m simply not in agreement with Apple that it can replace a computer for me, the ASK keyboard for the iPad Pro is just a no go, I tried it and I just couldn’t write for a long time with it. I could wait and see if they update the ASK alongside the new iPad Pros they are rumoured for this month, but I do still like a computer.

At the same time a device that could replace my (now dead MacBook Pro 2011) and iPad would be a bonus, especially if I could play games such as Two Point Hospital (the new game that looks like a modern Theme Hospital).

I’m not asking to do a massive amount, I just want to be able to write for extended periods of time, Watch content on Netflix and play some games like Two Point Hospital. I have a 2012 iMac for if I need to video edit and more heavy tasks.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The reason I me mentioned the MacBook is because at this point it’s betwen the MacBook or getting a Surface, however I’m willing to hold off for this month (providing Apple hold an event) and see what the rumoured new MacBook /Air update is going to be.

As someone who writes A LOT I need a great computer, the MacBook keys don’t seem to bother me (from what I’ve tried in store) and while I like my iPad Pro I’m simply not in agreement with Apple that it can replace a computer for me, the ASK keyboard for the iPad Pro is just a no go, I tried it and I just couldn’t write for a long time with it. I could wait and see if they update the ASK alongside the new iPad Pros they are rumoured for this month, but I do still like a computer.

At the same time a device that could replace my (now dead MacBook Pro 2011) and iPad would be a bonus, especially if I could play games such as Two Point Hospital (the new game that looks like a modern Theme Hospital).

I’m not asking to do a massive amount, I just want to be able to write for extended periods of time, Watch content on Netflix and play some games like Two Point Hospital. I have a 2012 iMac for if I need to video edit and more heavy tasks.

If your a light handed touch typist get the rMB

The SP is more about versatility but having said that you could get the best BT KB to suit you more so than the rMB KB

 

[SDColorado]

The Surface Book 2 has a pretty nice keyboard as well. I haven't tried the Surface Book keyboard, but I would have to imagine it is similar to the Pro. Also if the keyboard is a primary consideration, maybe also don't rule out the Lenovo Yoga 720

 

[Roadstar]

The Surface Book 2 has a pretty nice keyboard as well. I haven't tried the Surface Book keyboard, but I would have to imagine it is similar to the Pro. Also if the keyboard is a primary consideration, maybe also don't rule out the Lenovo Yoga 720

I will have to check at a store to refresh my memory, but if I recall correctly the Surface Pro keyboard felt still mostly like a good add-on keyboard to a tablet while the Surface Book one is part of a sturdier base and feels like a laptop keyboard even though the screen comes off when needed.

 

[SDColorado]

I will have to check at a store to refresh my memory, but if I recall correctly the Surface Pro keyboard felt still mostly like a good add-on keyboard to a tablet while the Surface Book one is part of a sturdier base and feels like a laptop keyboard even though the screen comes off when needed.

Yeah, I totally screwed up what I meant to say in that. That’s what happens when you try to multi-task.

I have a Surface Pro and I do like they keyboard, even more so than the MacBook Pro, even though it is an add-on keyboard type. But I do think the MBP has one of the worst keyboards on the market.

I have tried the Surface Book 2 keyboard and found it to be really nice. But I haven’t done more than look at the Surface Laptop and that was the one that I thought would probably be similar to the Surface Book, but instead said Surface Pro

 

[SteveJUAE]

Yeah, I totally screwed up what I meant to say in that. That’s what happens when you try to multi-task.

I have a Surface Pro and I do like they keyboard, even more so than the MacBook Pro, even though it is an add-on keyboard type. But I do think the MBP has one of the worst keyboards on the market.

I have tried the Surface Book 2 keyboard and found it to be really nice. But I haven’t done more than look at the Surface Laptop and that was the one that I thought would probably be similar to the Surface Book, but instead said Surface Pro

LOL

That's the point I was making earlier re BT

The SP KB is probably the best add-on KB but without having the bulk of the SB2 which is one of the best fixed clamshell like KB (Unless in the update today they allow the KB to be used detached)

You can buy the MS BT full KB of the same quality as the SB2 and have the best of both worlds ie the addon for traveling and the BT at home or for extended use or if you prefere the even the Apple BT KB

This is where the flexibility of the SP comes to the forefront in use with a BT KB you can detach the SP KB and avoid that having the screen too far away with clamshells

 

[Dave245]

The Microsoft event is later tonight (U.K. time 9pm) it will be interesting to see what they have to show off.

 

[kazmac]

The Microsoft event is later tonight (U.K. time 9pm) it will be interesting to see what they have to show off.

I will probably wait until I am on the way home to see what is revealed. Will wait on purchases, but I am very interested to see what they announce.

C’mon, Surface Studio 2.

 

[The_Interloper]

The Microsoft event is later tonight (U.K. time 9pm) it will be interesting to see what they have to show off.

No USB-C on the Pro or Laptop apparently: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/1/17919496/microsoft-event-2018-preview-surface-laptop-hardware

 

[Dave245]

No USB-C on the Pro or Laptop apparently: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/1/17919496/microsoft-event-2018-preview-surface-laptop-hardware

Seems to be a small update to Surface devices, that’s not necessarily a bad thing if there is going to be a big update to the Surface Pro next year. I’ll be waiting to see what’s announced both at the Microsoft event and the Apple one later this month (providing they have one.

 

[maflynn]

No USB-C on the Pro or Laptop apparently: https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/1/17919496/microsoft-event-2018-preview-surface-laptop-hardware

I don't get MS not embracing technology. Their Surface desktop uses slow, drives, the embrace of USB-C has been nearly non-existent.

 

[SDColorado]

The Microsoft event is later tonight (U.K. time 9pm) it will be interesting to see what they have to show off.

Indeed. Rumors are all over the place. The only thing that seems a definite from their own event advertising is that they will offer an all black Surface Laptop and that most devices will get spec bumps to Whiskey Lake, with the probable exception being the Go, which will gain an LTE version?

Oh and the latest version of Windows 10 codenamed Redstone 5. Maybe a couple of the bigger things there, if you are a touchscreen keyboard user, is the addition of Switkey swipe typing, the ability to adjust type size separate from overall display scaling, and machine learning so that your device can better learn when to and not to install updates.

Surface Studio 2? Surface Book 3? Surface Hub 2? Some say yes, some say no.

More unlikely is we will see Andromeda. But they may surprise folks.

Also some rumors on a possible new Microsoft Pen. Whether released today or in 2019 is a question. Supposedly Microsoft has been working on some taptic stuff for better feedback and more pen to paper feel as using solar power to recharge it, not just from ambient light, but also by playing the solar cells in the tip to use the light from the screen to recharge. It will be interesting to see if any of those technologies is ready for release.
[doublepost=1538486405][/doublepost]

I don't get MS not embracing technology. Their Surface desktop uses slow, drives, the embrace of USB-C has been nearly non-existent.

I know Panay has a whole list of reasons for why Microsoft has not embraced it and has joked that if you like USB-C then you apparently like dongles, so we devised a dongle for those who like it. That dongle being the Surface Connect. His claims are that the average user still isn't ready for it yet and most consumers don't understand the standard, the difference between USB-C and Thunderbolt 3. Even the Thunderbolt 3 standard is confusing to most because some like Apple use the recommended 4 PCIe lanes and others like Dell only support 2.

I am not sure I agree with the stance, but I can see his point. It is currently still a bit of a mess and MS feels it is too early to jump in with both feet.

 

[SteveJUAE]

The Microsoft event is later tonight (U.K. time 9pm) it will be interesting to see what they have to show off.

4am in the morning here

I was up by chance to watch the Apple event the other week, never doing that again

If by chance I stir in the night I may take a peep else tomorrow for me
[doublepost=1538488896][/doublepost]

I don't get MS not embracing technology. Their Surface desktop uses slow, drives, the embrace of USB-C has been nearly non-existent.

That's a bit unfair given Apple supposedly pro USB-C stance is also on limited devices and lets not even talk about the mini etc

I agree the internal on the studio were a bit sub par, but given the SL and the GO were aimed at educational markets really only the SP is lagging

 

[c0ppo]

Personally I find entire usb-c/tb3 to be anything but standard. All ports look the same, but they certainly aren't the same.

For example, x1c I'm using at the moment won't charge while plugged in to owc tb3 dock. X1c apparently needs 65w docks only, while owc is 60w. It won't even charge slowly, buy a more demanding mbp15 will charge just fine even when lg 5k monitor is plugged in to owc tb3 dock.

And on amazon most of usbc/tb3 cables are a joke, cheap Chinese knock offs, but that doesn't stop amazon selling them. Then we have passive, active, ecma cables... Tb3 cables longer then 0.5m aren't as good as shorter ones...

Basically, a complete mess, even for tech person. Regular Joe would go crazy. And he would be right.

 

[maflynn]

That's a bit unfair given Apple supposedly pro USB-C stance is also on limited devices and lets not even talk about the mini etc

We're not talking about Apple, we're taking about MS and my point remains. Its really silly to roll out a computer two years ago (surface studio) and its using a 5400 rpm drive. The USB-C port really puts them behind the curve imo. We'll see what transpires during the event, so I'm refraining from jumping to conclusions.

 

[metalsiren]

I don't get MS not embracing technology. Their Surface desktop uses slow, drives, the embrace of USB-C has been nearly non-existent.

yea I mean when it first came out, it was above its time. now its been limping along and need a complete overhaul.

and FYI I am a SP user, I have had everyone since the SP3. even had the S3 and that was nice. still pissed about win 10. Win 8 had a greate tablet mode where win 10 tablet mode kind of sucks (but win 10 was way better desktop expirence)

 

[SDColorado]

We're not talking about Apple, we're taking about MS and my point remains. Its really silly to roll out a computer two years ago (surface studio) and its using a 5400 rpm drive. The USB-C port really puts them behind the curve imo. We'll see what transpires during the event, so I'm refraining from jumping to conclusions.

Based on their stated position and favoring of the Surface Connect Port, I would not be surprised if they have maybe enhanced the port in some way and still sidestep USB-C for now....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...15587042/microsoft-surface-laptop-ports-usb-c

 

[SDColorado]

Based on their stated position and favoring of the Surface Connect Port, I would not be surprised if they have maybe enhanced the port in some way and still sidestep USB-C for now....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...15587042/microsoft-surface-laptop-ports-usb-c

Edit: I would dare say that the majority of people who participate in these tech discussion threads are fairly tech savvy and understand USB-C and Thunderbolt 3 and why they want it. But I am not sure MS is wrong in their belief that the majority of consumers don’t.

I can just envision MS in the Jack Nicholson role....

“You want USB-C?”
“You want Thunderbolt 3?”
“You can’t handle USB-C!”

And for the average consumer, at least for now, perhaps they aren’t wrong

Edit: oops crap. Meant to edit, not quote my own post. $@?! Tapatalk

 

[SteveJUAE]

We're not talking about Apple, we're taking about MS and my point remains. Its really silly to roll out a computer two years ago (surface studio) and its using a 5400 rpm drive. The USB-C port really puts them behind the curve imo. We'll see what transpires during the event, so I'm refraining from jumping to conclusions.

Your point may well remain but as it's true of all OEM's on various points, so it's really a bit mute

I agree it seems strange that many of the innovations by MS are on curve why did they pick one or two simple components way off and sub par

We can speculate it was on price or deliberate stinting to encourage other MS based OEM's, but as before I agree an odd choice

 

[Dave245]

Apparently they are not live streaming the event, so does that mean nothing major announced?

 

[The_Interloper]

Paul Thurrot is the man in the know; he already has a pretty good idea of what is coming at this event: https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/183481/what-to-expect-from-todays-microsoft-event

You have to remember that Microsoft's biggest customer for these devices is the enterprise. They must maintain backward compatibility and they have established the Surface Connect port as something they will support for the long-term (there are a lot of Surface docks out there hooked up to desktop setups). While I'm guessing that USB-C is on the horizon, it's simply not a priority for Microsoft and their core customers at present.

It's funny – the one company that has completely embraced USB-C is Apple, yet everyone I know with the current MacBook and MacBook Pro do nothing but complain about those ports and all the dongles they have to carry to plug-in even the most simple peripherals.

 

[kazmac]

Hrm, my opinion of usb-c, “Get off my 2013 27” iMac’s lawn!” My tech is too mature -(ahem)- to have usb-c ports.

Seriously though, if the company is not deliberately gouging customers by offering this, okay, sure. Give us some other options please (at least include a dongle or two with the product.)...

As far as Surface? I will probably still drool over the possible black S Pro. Staying tuned.