Surface Devices

[fokmik]

Remember, on 2 October ,tomorrow surface event...so don;t eliminate surface pro 8 and other surface devices

You cannot replace the SP 8 with PRO X....that pro x....is a mess...you can't run well everything you need...i had the first gen, and it was a mess...the build however was spot on

 

[Dave245]

Remember, on 2 October ,tomorrow surface event...so don;t eliminate surface pro 8 and other surface devices

You cannot replace the SP 8 with PRO X....that pro x....is a mess...you can't run well everything you need...i had the first gen, and it was a mess...the build however was spot on

As far as I know there isn’t a Surface event on the 2nd October, where did you see that? I think today’s announcements were what would of been at an event.

 

[Falhófnir]

Remember, on 2 October ,tomorrow surface event...so don;t eliminate surface pro 8 and other surface devices

You cannot replace the SP 8 with PRO X....that pro x....is a mess...you can't run well everything you need...i had the first gen, and it was a mess...the build however was spot on

As I understand it the Surface Pro and Surface Laptop that would have launched around now were delayed with the pandemic to next year (or so I read a while back, this seems to validate it).

 

[fokmik]

As far as I know there isn’t a Surface event on the 2nd October, where did you see that? I think today’s announcements were what would of been at an event.

Yes, i you are rigght,

 

[fokmik]

As I understand it the Surface Pro and Surface Laptop that would have launched around now were delayed with the pandemic to next year (or so I read a while back, this seems to validate it).

YEs, the rest of the surfaces devices were delayed, you are right

 

[fokmik]

So just one real surface device, the laptop go..but who will go for base 64 with 4gb ram and no fingerprint sensor or windows hello? i think for fingerprint you have to go with the 650$ model? 128 and 8 gb ram...and this is for students?

 

[Dave245]

So just one real surface device, the laptop go..but who will go for base 64 with 4gb ram and no fingerprint sensor or windows hello? i think for fingerprint you have to go with the 650$ model? 128 and 8 gb ram...and this is for students?

I don’t know. The new iPad Air 4 is due to be released this month. That’s also an option, roughly the same price as well. I also think the A14 Bionic will be faster.

 

[fokmik]

I don’t know. The new iPad Air 4 is due to be released this month. That’s also an option, roughly the same price as well. I also think the A14 Bionic will be faster.

ipad air 4 is a nice release and i think students have discounts ?! But, what if the Apple will release 12" Macbook and it will be under 1000$, around 799 or 899$ ? 12" Macbook with A14 based chip, less heat, better battery life, runs ipad/macos/linux and win10 arm apps....
For me that is the big question mark...ok if Apples cheapest macbook will start from 1000$ then ok, the ipad air 4 is the solution if you dont want the surface laptop go

I know for most people that is not a big deal from the build point of view the fact that the entire bottom is "plastic" but when you carry around, because the top part is metallic and the bottom is polycarbonate you will feel the difference...they should make it all from the same material

 

[Dave245]

ipad air 4 is a nice release and i think students have discounts ?! But, what if the Apple will release 12" Macbook and it will be under 1000$, around 799 or 899$ ? 12" Macbook with A14 based chip, less heat, better battery life, runs ipad/macos/linux and win10 arm apps....
For me that is the big question mark...ok if Apples cheapest macbook will start from 1000$ then ok, the ipad air 4 is the solution if you dont want the surface laptop go

I know for most people that is not a big deal from the build point of view the fact that the entire bottom is "plastic" but when you carry around, because the top part is metallic and the bottom is polycarbonate you will feel the difference...they should make it all from the same material

It’s a good point. It will be interesting to see Apple’s ARM chip Mac’s. Surface Pro is a great device, they are well built. Apple on the other hand kills it with their chipset.

 

[fokmik]

It’s a good point. It will be interesting to see Apple’s ARM chip Mac’s. Surface Pro is a great device, they are well built. Apple on the other hand kills it with their chipset.

I still think apple has a better build because of the material consistency , more dense
That combinations in materials is not ideal, plastic, glass, magnesium , i understand to keep the price as low..but they could make all the surface laptop go from the same polycarbonate they use the entire bottom part, but the starting config to be the 128 with 8 gb ram

 

[LeeW]

I also think the A14 Bionic will be faster.

Faster to do what? The original iPad Pro CPU is still faster today than iPadOS needs not to speak of the current line. People shouldn't be looking at the new Air for its CPU performance, no real benefit for the people it is targetted at.

 

[The_Interloper]

Man and I thought Apple’s product naming conventions were confusing. What does Go mean? And what’s the difference between Book and Laptop? 😂

Go = small, light, compact entry-level devices
Book = Laptop with fully detachable tablet screen
Laptop = traditional laptop form factor with touchscreen
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I wonder if they have replaced the Surface Pro 8 with the Pro X, i don’t see the point of keeping both around.

They are completely different devices. The Pro X is ARM, the regular Pro is Intel x86.

 

[fokmik]

Faster to do what? The original iPad Pro CPU is still faster today than iPadOS needs not to speak of the current line. People shouldn't be looking at the new Air for its CPU performance, no real benefit for the people it is targetted at.

is not really about the ipadOS...for those who browse the web , the basic ipad is enough...but when you use apps like photoshop, or affinity photo app, there you can see the difference and you will love that you have such a great hardware
I bet there are a lot more apps that use that cpu/igpu
So , again ipad pro is not meant for users who just browse the web and read books. i think apple made this iar, for those who wanted an more affordable ipad with the design of the pro and a hardware that will last years from now
And you should try to have affinity photo open and check/import your own photos library at the same time, there is the magic of having that power, and remember the usbC from ipad air is just 5gbs where the ipad pro is 10gbs
So, ipad OS can run fine even on the base ipad 326$, its all about the apps that you use, not about the OS
And its nice to have that A14 for those who wants to keep the ipad air for 3-4-5 years and to have ipadOS 20 on it

 

[LeeW]

but when you use apps like photoshop, or affinity photo app, there you can see the difference

I do and I don't see the difference. Never have.

 

[fokmik]

I do and I don't see the difference. Never have.

you cant see the difference between what?

 

[LeeW]

MS were smart to release these given the pandemic (School and work from home). I agree with the too $$$$ for skimpy specs on the Surface Laptop Go, and the Pro X‘s price point. Still, there will be sales soon.

Indeed, I still think they are great devices, they put a lot of thought into them. I am not saying I wouldn't buy a Surface Laptop Go. Just no need whilst locked down. But it really would make a great alternative to the Surface Pro which I was waiting on to see if they improved it.

What are you thinking @Queen6? You are very quiet these days

 

[derekamoss]

So anyone have any ideas of what to do with a spare tablet section of the Surface Book 2? Any cool ideas?

 

[Dave245]

Faster to do what? The original iPad Pro CPU is still faster today than iPadOS needs not to speak of the current line. People shouldn't be looking at the new Air for its CPU performance, no real benefit for the people it is targetted at.

To use apps like LumaFusion, Photoshop and so on. Personally i think the iPad Pro would be better for those types of apps, it's why i have a 12.9" 2017 iPad Pro. However Apple if Apple makes apps like Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro for the iPad in the future, these chips would be an advantage.

 

[Dave245]

They are completely different devices. The Pro X is ARM, the regular Pro is Intel x86.

Yes but i'm betting that Microsoft will be following Apple soon in that they will transition devices over too ARM. If everything is still on track, Apple are going to be releasing at least one ARM Mac by the end of the year (my guess is around November time).

 

[fokmik]

Yes but i'm betting that Microsoft will be following Apple soon in that they will transition devices over too ARM. If everything is still on track, Apple are going to be releasing at least one ARM Mac by the end of the year (my guess is around November time).

it will be very hard for Microsoft to follow apple
Remember, apple now has full control on both hardware and software, while Microsoft has not...has to go with custom qualcom chip...and Microsoft cannot have a great emulation, not even close to Rosetta 2...so , 2 big things that drag this concept down
After using and trying last year surface pro x ...no, no thank you...that device is for normal users that use only arm based apps that are in windows store
Apple clearly worked hard on this for years, and now, it is miles ahead and im happy for them and for the mac category.Glad that after some years Apple shown big step for the mac

 

[Falhófnir]

I don't know, I think Microsoft needs Windows on Arm to be successful. If Apple (and worse, Qualcomm or Nvidia) does start trouncing Intel and AMD with their Arm chips and Microsoft aren't a player in the Arm-book market, then like with phones it will become an Apple-Google (Mac-Chromebook) war with Microsoft again left sitting on a stagnant if not slowly diminishing desktop user base. I really don't think Microsoft can afford to miss the train again, but they need to get Windows on Arm onto cheaper HP, Dell, Lenovo etc machines and into the hands of customers as soon as possible so the native ecosystem starts populating with all the programs people will expect to use.

Emulation takes away any battery and speed advantage the best Arm chips might be able to offer as it works them harder for the same end result, it's not something that should substitute for native apps in the long run. Intel's Lakefield failure seems to have killed the option for more Arm-like x86 devices (Surface neo) running Windows 10X, so this is what they're left to work with...

 

[Dave245]

it will be very hard for Microsoft to follow apple
Remember, apple now has full control on both hardware and software, while Microsoft has not...has to go with custom qualcom chip...and Microsoft cannot have a great emulation, not even close to Rosetta 2...so , 2 big things that drag this concept down
After using and trying last year surface pro x ...no, no thank you...that device is for normal users that use only arm based apps that are in windows store
Apple clearly worked hard on this for years, and now, it is miles ahead and im happy for them and for the mac category.Glad that after some years Apple shown big step for the mac

I don't know, I think Microsoft needs Windows on Arm to be successful. If Apple (and worse, Qualcomm or Nvidia) does start trouncing Intel and AMD with their Arm chips and Microsoft aren't a player in the Arm-book market, then like with phones it will become an Apple-Google (Mac-Chromebook) war with Microsoft again left sitting on a stagnant if not slowly diminishing desktop user base. I really don't think Microsoft can afford to miss the train again, but they need to get Windows on Arm onto cheaper HP, Dell, Lenovo etc machines and into the hands of customers as soon as possible so the native ecosystem starts populating with all the programs people will expect to use.

Emulation takes away any battery and speed advantage the best Arm chips might be able to offer as it works them harder for the same end result, it's not something that should substitute for native apps in the long run. Intel's Lakefield failure seems to have killed the option for more Arm-like x86 devices (Surface neo) running Windows 10X, so this is what they're left to work with...

I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens with Apple's ARM Mac's (hopefully we won't have long to find out before the first ARM Mac is released later this year). Apple has had the advantage with the chipsets for a while, the iPad Pro is faster than the Surface Pro! however it doesn't run the full apps, this is where I think Apple should (and in fact are rumoured to be) bring Final Cut Pro X and Logic Pro to the iPad Pro.

Microsoft are doing really well with Surface device I think, I had the Pro 6 but ended up selling it, I do regret doing that. The kickstand was awesome and I think I just needed to get use to Windows. I do think that Microsoft need to get on the ARM train as soon as they can, I think the Pro X is their starting position.

I think that they take a leaf out of each others books, for example Apple releasing a full keyboard with trackpad support is them admitting that Microsoft were right all along with the 2 in 1. On the other hand Apple have great marketing, great aesthetics with their devices (the iPad Pro looks great) and the software is often much better than Windows (that's not to say Apple haven't had their own issues with software updates).

It could even be that Microsoft are sitting back and watching how successful Apple are with their ARM devices, before deciding to go full steam ahead.

 

[fokmik]

Since bill was replaced , its clear that Microsoft future is cloud services, windows is not going well based on R&D...they tried windows 10s, they left it out, they tried RT, they left it out,windows mobile left it out, arm windows 10? this is the last thing, i hope microsoft will do license it for users to run in virtualisation...but again, not many apps will be for win10 arm based....so, again, windows is not improving much
No wonder, the first 3d party native arm macos apps will be the office suite and so on

 

[Dave245]

Since bill was replaced , its clear that Microsoft future is cloud services, windows is not going well based on R&D...they tried windows 10s, they left it out, they tried RT, they left it out, arm windows 10? this is the last thing, i hope microsoft will do license it for users to run in virtualisation...but again, not many apps will be for win10 arm based....so, again, windows is not improving much
No wonder, the first 3d party native arm macos apps will be the office suite and so on

I think Microsoft struggle in a couple of areas and Windows is one of them. They can't seem to draw people away from iPad's, the iPad seems to far outsell the Surface. Yet with full Windows and gaming you would think it should be the other way round. Apple bet big with the iPad and tablets in general, it seems to have paid off BIG for Apple.

Not to say that the Surface isn't any good, I thin Microsoft have done well with it hardware wise. I also like the recent (I think it's a recent update) clean and more appealing aesthetic to Windows (I believe it's called 2004 update).

It's going to be interesting to see where they take the Surface Pro 8 and all future versions.

 

[fokmik]

Yes, in these days, the mass developers are on mobile world...not any more into the x86 world...
So here, Apple is the big boy, not just the ipad apps will work but we can make it withing 2 days, any app to run full screen, window sizing and so much more...and those app are for ipads hardware 100%
Now that we will have A based chips into the macs, with more Ram, even more head to breath, better cooling, better iGPU, next year custom Apple GPU for the macs....now...lets talk about future arm based pro apps ..