Surface Devices

[canesalato]

Yes but i'm betting that Microsoft will be following Apple soon in that they will transition devices over too ARM. If everything is still on track, Apple are going to be releasing at least one ARM Mac by the end of the year (my guess is around November time).

Uhm....I wouldn't be so sure about that...what would be the benefit, for Microsoft, in doing so rather than offering both platforms like they are doing now?
Apple has strong processors, that they themselves produce. Microsoft would still be depending on a third party. And this third party's processors are slower than intel, for now.

 

[canesalato]

I think Microsoft struggle in a couple of areas and Windows is one of them. They can't seem to draw people away from iPad's, the iPad seems to far outsell the Surface. Yet with full Windows and gaming you would think it should be the other way round. Apple bet big with the iPad and tablets in general, it seems to have paid off BIG for Apple.

Not to say that the Surface isn't any good, I thin Microsoft have done well with it hardware wise. I also like the recent (I think it's a recent update) clean and more appealing aesthetic to Windows (I believe it's called 2004 update).

It's going to be interesting to see where they take the Surface Pro 8 and all future versions.

The problem with Microsoft is the low-end: they cannot produce cheap devices with decent processors. Some of the pain at the low-end is also self-inflicted (4gb of RAM for a Windows device is really hard to justify). The low-end drives the high end. I am sure many people start from a cheap iPad and eventually get the Pro.
The Surface go is not good enough, until it reaches a price too close to the Pro.

ARM could help, a lot, in this context. However...the Surface Pro X suggests that they believe ARM devices should, for some reason, cost more than Intel and be super premium, even though they are generally slower in the Windows world and have reduced functionality. Go figure...

PS: I still like my Surface Pro 7 more than anything Apple makes.

 

[kazmac]

I think Microsoft struggle in a couple of areas and Windows is one of them. They can't seem to draw people away from iPad's, the iPad seems to far outsell the Surface. Yet with full Windows and gaming you would think it should be the other way round. Apple bet big with the iPad and tablets in general, it seems to have paid off BIG for Apple.

Not to say that the Surface isn't any good, I thin Microsoft have done well with it hardware wise. I also like the recent (I think it's a recent update) clean and more appealing aesthetic to Windows (I believe it's called 2004 update).

It's going to be interesting to see where they take the Surface Pro 8 and all future versions.

For me it’s still the ease of use, using the stylus, and excellent art apps that keeps me away from the Surface line. Some are fine with the Surface pen and non-Pro Wacom styluses, but my trials using these as an iPad art replacement failed. I’ll continue to skip the Surface pen for art (It’s fine for annotating, notes etc.) So for tablets, I’ll stick with Apple.

That said, I like some of what MS is doing with the Surface hardware (Wish Apple would add a built in kickstand for iPads and do something like the Surface Studio in the iMac line).

The Surface laptops are wonderful. The same can be said of other OEMs, love some of the Windows laptops lately.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Has someone renamed this thread daydreaming for IOS users LOL

Best not wake them up with any comments and burst their bubble

 

[Dave245]

For me it’s still the ease of use, using the stylus, and excellent art apps that keeps me away from the Surface line. Some are fine with the Surface pen and non-Pro Wacom styluses, but my trials using these as an iPad art replacement failed. I’ll continue to the Surface pen for art (It’s fine for annotating, notes etc.) So for tablets, I’ll stick with Apple.

That said, I like some of what MS is doing with the Surface hardware (Wish Apple would add a built in kick stand for iPads and do something like the Surface Studio in the iMac line).

The Surface laptops are wonderful. The same can be said of other OEMs, love some of the Windows laptops lately.

Microsoft has definitely improved over the years. The Surface line is improving massively! Yesterdays announcement of the Laptop Go was nice, if I was a university student who just needed a laptop for note taking and everyday tasks, It would definitely be right there next too the MacBook Air for consideration.

I do agree when it comes to drawing the Apple Pencil is better. I’ve watched reviews in the past where the same has been said by the reviewer. That’s not to say the Surface Pen is bad because it isn’t. The kickstand on the Surface Pro is very well built and Microsoft has done some great work with hinges

 

[canesalato]

After more considerations, I have to say that the new Surface Laptop go looks like a really nice product. The rounded corners are really cute. At that price, I think it will sell well, regardless the weak processor. I am still sorry for those who will buy the 64gb-4gb base model, which should not exist...

 

[kazmac]

Has someone renamed this thread daydreaming for IOS users LOL

Best not wake them up with any comments and burst their bubble

Oh, why not? Popping bubbles is fun. 😉

 

[Dave245]

Anyone remember this guy? He jumped from Mac to a Surface Book 3. After 3 months of use he is back with an update/review.

It‘s interesting because he has the same thoughts on Windows and Microsoft that I have. Interesting watch for those that saw his first video.

 

[LeeW]

Anyone remember this guy? He jumped from Mac to a Surface Book 3. After 3 months of use he is back with an update/review.

I get a lot what he is saying about Windows, I feel the same way also. I often find myself looking at task manager and thinking, why is this option in macOS so much cleaner. But as I have said all along on my own journey from macOS to Windows, they are not the same, there are reasons some a lot of things are done differently.

Honestly, I could jump back into macOS tomorrow, today even just for the calmness of the OS but I am thankful to Apple for the move to ARM as it means I am not budging from Windows. Maybe ARM will be so convincing that I go back, a bit of me hopes so but most of me thinks it will be a bad move.

No doubt I will grab the cheapest of the 1st ARM devices to tinker, I'm a Geek that way, I have no problem buying a device on day 1 just to see how it performs for myself.

 

[LeeW]

the Surface Pro X suggests that they believe ARM devices should, for some reason, cost more than Intel and be super premium

I liken the Surface Pro X pricing to the Mac Pro Pricing. They know they are not going to move the units needed to recover development cost and make money at a lower price so it's up there in stupid pricing land for the faithful numbers to buy and paw over, they are willing to pay that money for the device, you and I are not.

 

[weeesss]

I got a SP7 to replace my SP6 that the dog broke. The SP works well for my needs, and I considered going back to a Macbook but not with the overheating problems I have read about. The Go laptop looks intriguing. I have until October 14th to return to Bestbuy, and the Go laptop shows it will ship on the 13th. Wonder if they will be in store to fondle prior to release date.

 

[derekamoss]

The problem with Microsoft is the low-end: they cannot produce cheap devices with decent processors. Some of the pain at the low-end is also self-inflicted (4gb of RAM for a Windows device is really hard to justify). The low-end drives the high end. I am sure many people start from a cheap iPad and eventually get the Pro.
The Surface go is not good enough, until it reaches a price too close to the Pro.

ARM could help, a lot, in this context. However...the Surface Pro X suggests that they believe ARM devices should, for some reason, cost more than Intel and be super premium, even though they are generally slower in the Windows world and have reduced functionality. Go figure...

PS: I still like my Surface Pro 7 more than anything Apple makes.

You would be surprised how well Windows runs on 4gb of ram. I still have my Surface Pro 3 which has 4gb and it is running the newest Windows version perfectly fine. I have really only had an 8gb system for a little over a year. Started out with a 4gb SP 4 and when I used Microsoft Complete, they upgraded me to the 8gb =). I got my Surface Book 2 now so 8gbs it is again. I don't REALLY need 8gb because almost all of my work is really done in Word and could easily live off 4gb, just like a lot of people can do. I also do all my gaming, except Diablo 3, which runs fine on 4gbs, on my Xbox One X. I have seen Windows 10 run fairly well on even 2gb, although multi-tasking was limited. They have done a LOT to optimize Windows' footprint. I would guess it is even better than MacOS on lower ram systems. I'm not complaining about having 8gb though lol. Finally started using Hyper-V to test some stuff out which is nice.

 

[fokmik]

It is for sure 4gb Ram new mac will never exist, im guessing not even with 8gb ram, but that i see apple putting on the smallest macbook and/or mac mini
But since we need virtualizations and rosetta 2 for quite some time, it forces Apple to release a lot of macs with standard 16 gb ram and some with 32
If now we still have 8gb ram standard for imacs and 13" macbook pro, mac mini and for the macbook air , this list will be down just for the macbook air and mac mini , but i guess even the next arm mac mini will start from 16 gb ram since they will glue the ram and make it non-user replaceable

 

[LeeW]

You would be surprised how well Windows runs on 4gb of ram. I still have my Surface Pro 3 which has 4gb and it is running the newest Windows version perfectly fine.

Same here, and old Pro 3 sitting on a table in a different part of the house just as a browsing device when needed. Still runs great on 4GB for quite a few tasks.

*edit - Actually it might be a 4, not a 3.

 

[SteveJUAE]

You would be surprised how well Windows runs on 4gb of ram. I still have my Surface Pro 3 which has 4gb and it is running the newest Windows version perfectly fine. I have really only had an 8gb system for a little over a year. Started out with a 4gb SP 4 and when I used Microsoft Complete, they upgraded me to the 8gb =). I got my Surface Book 2 now so 8gbs it is again. I don't REALLY need 8gb because almost all of my work is really done in Word and could easily live off 4gb, just like a lot of people can do. I also do all my gaming, except Diablo 3, which runs fine on 4gbs, on my Xbox One X. I have seen Windows 10 run fairly well on even 2gb, although multi-tasking was limited. They have done a LOT to optimize Windows' footprint. I would guess it is even better than MacOS on lower ram systems. I'm not complaining about having 8gb though lol. Finally started using Hyper-V to test some stuff out which is nice.

I think they would be more surprised IRL what Arm W10 devices you can buy for the equivalent cost of $1600 that an Ipad Pro with KB and LTE costs, that weighs 50% more, less battery endurance and is still a far more restricted OS

You can even throw in a Wacom Pad and still get change to buy a printer etc and skip looking in MS Store there is plenty of other Win10 32bit profession Apps that works fine before we even talk about MS Office 365 etc

They even forget the Arm devices are slightly more $ as they are by default LTE variants that automatically cost $100 more than straight Intel versions

Arm devices can even under certain software be faster than the nearest Intel M3 equivalent depending on if its single or multicore use

Plenty of options as usual, today, opposed to theoretical daydreams

 

[kazmac]

Anyone remember this guy? He jumped from Mac to a Surface Book 3. After 3 months of use he is back with an update/review.

It‘s interesting because he has the same thoughts on Windows and Microsoft that I have. Interesting watch for those that saw his first video.

Thanks for that. I can so relate to his Windows 10 issues. Sadly, looks like he got a dud SB3 as the screen cracked very easily. I hope the Surface Laptop Go are built better than the SB3 and SL3 batches that have these screen issues.

That said, keep looking at and almost buying the Asus Zephyrus G14 on a daily basis (If the regular models had the Acrynm edition keyboard colors I’d probably jump (Though not the As on every key and better backlighting too.)) I’ll skip spending major cash on a Windows machine when I have similar issues as the author. To be fair, I refuse to spend major coin on Apple machines for their issues too.

Aesthetics are now catnip to my using a laptop. Very superficial, but I want to like the machine for ease of use, comfort and looks.

 

[Dave245]

Thanks for that. I can so relate to his Windows 10 issues. Sadly, looks like he got a dud SB3 as the screen cracked very easily. I hope the Surface Laptop Go are built better than the SB3 and SL3 batches that have these screen issues.

That said, keep looking at and almost buying the Asus Zephyrus G14 on a daily basis (If the regular models had the Acrynm edition keyboard colors I’d probably jump (Though not the As on every key and better backlighting too.)) I’ll skip spending major cash on a Windows machine when I have similar issues as the author. To be fair, I refuse to spend major coin on Apple machines for their issues too.

Aesthetics are now catnip to my using a laptop. Very superficial, but I want to like the machine for ease of use, comfort and looks.

To be fair the Windows Surface Laptop Go looks good. If I were still a student I would be very tempted by the Laptop Go, especially that blue colour it looks really nice.

The Surface Pro X seems to be a little expensive for what it is. Saying that tho you can pick up the Pro X for around the same price as the iPad Pro (the 256 and 512GB versions). It really depends on the platform of choice.

 

[kazmac]

To be fair the Windows Surface Laptop Go looks good. If I were still a student I would be very tempted by the Laptop Go, especially that blue colour it looks really nice.

The Surface Pro X seems to be a little expensive for what it is. Saying that tho you can pick up the Pro X for around the same price as the iPad Pro (the 256 and 512GB versions). It really depends on the platform of choice.

Sandstone would be my choice. Still, too little RAM / storage for the asking price.

 

[maflynn]

Yes but i'm betting that Microsoft will be following Apple soon in that they will transition devices over too ARM.

Technically Apple is following Microsoft since they had arm based products before Apple

I don’t see any changes to the “wintel” platform

 

[Abazigal]

I can’t say I am in love with the surface pro form factor.

The teachers in my school were issued HP elite laptops. During the pandemic back in April, school was closed for a month and we moved to home-based learning. As part of this, we made more extensive use of zoom (for conducting live lessons with students and staff meetings), as well as using them more for tasks like lesson preparation.

It wasn’t long before they started developing screen problems, from flickering to total screen blackouts. The IT team told us that this was likely due to excessive heat being generated from the CPU, since the screen was located directly above the battery and processor.

I wasn’t affected because I used my iMac and ipad at home for lesson prep and zooming, but for many of my colleagues who rely on the school laptops for work, it was a major inconvenience.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I can’t say I am in love with the surface pro form factor.

The teachers in my school were issued HP elite laptops. During the pandemic back in April, school was closed for a month and we moved to home-based learning. As part of this, we made more extensive use of zoom (for conducting live lessons with students and staff meetings), as well as using them more for tasks like lesson preparation.

It wasn’t long before they started developing screen problems, from flickering to total screen blackouts. The IT team told us that this was likely due to excessive heat being generated from the CPU, since the screen was located directly above the battery and processor.

I wasn’t affected because I used my iMac and ipad at home for lesson prep and zooming, but for many of my colleagues who rely on the school laptops for work, it was a major inconvenience.

Strangely I have just done the reverse my Wife's Macbook was getting so hot on Skype and Zoomer calls it shut down

I have replaced it with a Samsung Book S Arm version that not only runs incredibly cool the battery endurance even puts Ipads to shame and she still has full enterprise software etc a proper keyboard and trackpad and about $600 cheaper than an Ipad Combo.

The MB Air was simply a no go for heat issues, that ship has sailed.

 

[canesalato]

You would be surprised how well Windows runs on 4gb of ram. I still have my Surface Pro 3 which has 4gb and it is running the newest Windows version perfectly fine. I have really only had an 8gb system for a little over a year. Started out with a 4gb SP 4 and when I used Microsoft Complete, they upgraded me to the 8gb =). I got my Surface Book 2 now so 8gbs it is again. I don't REALLY need 8gb because almost all of my work is really done in Word and could easily live off 4gb, just like a lot of people can do. I also do all my gaming, except Diablo 3, which runs fine on 4gbs, on my Xbox One X. I have seen Windows 10 run fairly well on even 2gb, although multi-tasking was limited. They have done a LOT to optimize Windows' footprint. I would guess it is even better than MacOS on lower ram systems. I'm not complaining about having 8gb though lol. Finally started using Hyper-V to test some stuff out which is nice.

Fair points =)

 

[Abazigal]

Strangely I have just done the reverse my Wife's Macbook was getting so hot on Skype and Zoomer calls it shut down

I have replaced it with a Samsung Book S Arm version that not only runs incredibly cool the battery endurance even puts Ipads to shame and she still has full enterprise software etc a proper keyboard and trackpad and about $600 cheaper than an Ipad Combo.

The MB Air was simply a no go for heat issues, that ship has sailed.

Just goes to show we are each the product of the positive and negative experiences with the products that we use.

 

[canesalato]

Just goes to show we are each the product of the positive and negative experiences with the products that we use.

and that we should all demand a little bit more from these products in term of reliability, regardless the brand.

 

[Dave245]

Just goes to show we are each the product of the positive and negative experiences with the products that we use.

This is very true! I have not had any issues (so far) with my 2019 MacBook Pro, yet there are people who have had issues with the keyboard. I also can’t complain about the battery life of my iPad Pro (it’s definitely gone down but it is the 2017 version).

People have different experiences and different opinions on products, which will shape how they see that brand and therefore how likely they are to buy said brand in the future.