Surface Devices

[drinkingtea]

I would recommend holding off until Apple's Event next week and you get to see the latest 16" MBP - granted it may be more then you want, but holding off allows you to make an educated decision

That’s what I’m planning to do!

 

[kazmac]

Here is a review from Brad Colbow, admittedly from a creative/drawing point of view. He seems quite enthousiastic about the Studio. Also he thinks the fan noise is very low. The pen (jitter) seems to be much improved.

Mind you, I did not experience the SLS myself (I have no need for it), but I thought a link to a review with a different angle could be useful as well.

EDIT: He does not mention the hinge much. At the end of the video he also states that reviews of the new Surface Go and Surface Pro are coming up. The pen (jitter) seems to be much improved, so that is good news for the creative persons among us 😉 . But if anyone creative is in doubt about the hinge on the Studio, maybe the new Surface Pro is an alternative.

Thanks for that, I’ll wait for his Surface Pro review to watch, but glad to hear the pen jitter seems to be improved. My local Best Buy did not have any of the new Surfaces on display.

 

[Mendota]

Well, I am going to get one. To quote Brad this is a machine for me. As an art machine, this checks all the boxes. I am not worried about the hinge, as all my Microsoft products have proven to be quite durable. I am more concerned about my M1 Air from Apple. The only issue I have is trying to force myself to wait until Christmas. Every year I have something that I want to give myself for the holiday, and I seldom make it to December... Wish me luck.

 

[kazmac]

Well, I am going to get one. To quote Brad this is a machine for me. As an art machine, this checks all the boxes. I am not worried about the hinge, as all my Microsoft products have proven to be quite durable. I am more concerned about my M1 Air from Apple. The only issue I have is trying to force myself to wait until Christmas. Every year I have something that I want to give myself for the holiday, and I seldom make it to December... Wish me luck.

I am sure it will be a nice machine for you, may MS get all the kinks out by then. Perhaps, you’ll get a good sale then too.

I look forward to reading your artistic experiences with it.

 

[Queen6]

What games were you playing that your fans ramped up. I suspect if you used Intel Extreme Tuning or Throttlestop, you could have tweaked the laptop and improved the temps. I do that for my desktop and i'm saving at least 10c with various settings.

Yes however...

Intel via Microsoft has been quietly killing that feature due to security concerns "Plundervolt". Rolled neatly into Windows Update by mandatory updating of both BIOS & Microcode which effectively locks the CPU registers to stop the user undervolting the CPU. It's possible to rollback as long as you know what your doing, equally the system would be vulnerable to local & remote attack by those with knowledge.

This with notebooks can impact performance a good deal resulting in higher temperatures & throttling. TBH next Windows Notebook I purchase will be AMD based as I'm getting a little sick and tired of Intel's laziness & incompetence. Was also factor in opting for the M1 MBP for my 13" class notebook as I don't believe in rewarding companies for doing a bad job...

Q-6

 

[Kung gu]

as all my Microsoft products have proven to be quite durable.

clearly you never used the xbox 360 or the Surface Pro 4. These products were notorious for breaking down.

 

[Mendota]

clearly you never used the xbox 360 or the Surface Pro 4. These products were notorious for breaking down.

Can't comment on xbox. I don't use consoles. My Surface Pro 3 and Surface Pro (the year they skipped a number) are working fine. So, I am not worried about the Studio. The one issue I had with a Surface, Microsoft took care of it.

 

[Kung gu]

Can't comment on xbox. I don't use consoles. My Surface Pro 3 and Surface Pro (the year they skipped a number) are working fine. So, I am not worried about the Studio. The one issue I had with a Surface, Microsoft took care of it.

That's good. Hope you will enjot ur SLS.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Just an FYI for anyone with a Surface and thinking about installing Windows 11; be careful how you upgrade. If you decide to do a fresh install using the Windows 11 USB Install image from Microsoft's website then you'll need a USB keyboard (and maybe mouse) as Microsoft didn't include drivers for at least some of their Surface models. I've installed Windows 11 on two current gen Surface Book 3 laptops and there were no drivers for the keyboard, trackpad or touch screen until after you've progressed enough in the installation procedure to join a Wifi network and let it update. Yes, this is as stupid as it sounds.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Just an FYI for anyone with a Surface and thinking about installing Windows 11; be careful how you upgrade. If you decide to do a fresh install using the Windows 11 USB Install image from Microsoft's website then you'll need a USB keyboard (and maybe mouse) as Microsoft didn't include drivers for at least some of their Surface models. I've installed Windows 11 on two current gen Surface Book 3 laptops and there were no drivers for the keyboard, trackpad or touch screen until after you've progressed enough in the installation procedure to join a Wifi network and let it update. Yes, this is as stupid as it sounds.

Thanks for the tip. I have heard there is a Surface specific ISO that avoids this problem. I just used the upgrade assistant...

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Thanks for the tip. I have heard there is a Surface specific ISO that avoids this problem. I just used the upgrade assistant...

There wasn’t an ISO available on the Surface page when I put the laptop details in, unfortunately, but they do tend to lag a few revisions behind. Upgrade assistant is of course fine and is what most people will do. I just thought it was such an oversight. The missing drivers are probably a megabyte or two at most.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Nothing has changed for me with the new macs. No touchscreen so......SP8 here I come eventually.

 

[LeeW]

Nothing has changed for me with the new macs.

Pretty much the same. I mean the new MBPs are nice, very much Pro models vs what is currently available but I just don't need a laptop at that level anymore, not when I am still working from home and only going back to the office for 1 or 2 days each week next year.

If they had dropped a new Mac Mini and offered the same options in it I would have bitten and gone for a high spec just because.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Pretty much the same. I mean the new MBPs are nice, very much Pro models vs what is currently available but I just don't need a laptop at that level anymore, not when I am still working from home and only going back to the office for 1 or 2 days each week next year.

If they had dropped a new Mac Mini and offered the same options in it I would have bitten and gone for a high spec just because.

Exactly, I have my gaming PC when I need beast mode on something (which is rare honestly). But a mobile device I always have? That needs inking capabilities.

 

[luvmango]

Exactly, I have my gaming PC when I need beast mode on something (which is rare honestly). But a mobile device I always have? That needs inking capabilities.

Just curious: have you considered an iPad Pro (or any other iPad line) as a mobile device with inking capabilities?

 

[kazmac]

If they had dropped a new Mac Mini and offered the same options in it I would have bitten and gone for a high spec just because.

I was waiting for a Mac Mini too, I guess that means the replacement for the Intel Mac Mini will have an M2? chip then?

I am looking at the SLS again and the 2-in-1 MSI Summit 16”*, if the HP AMD laptop doesn’t cut it. *The Asus isn’t due until November.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

Ordered a 14" MBP today to replace my wife's Surface Book with. It has a similar resolution to the Surface Book unlike the downgrade that the Surface Studio Laptop stupidly has and it's *way* more powerful for the money. We're not getting rid of any other Surface Books in the office but as and when they need to be replaced or we hire new people, we're looking into whether to go Apple. Weirdly, Apple just seems like better value right now.

 

[Thysanoptera]

I just placed an order for maxed out 14 MBP. I have the 13 M1 and it is great, but too limited. The 14 seems to fix all of that. Will probably get a surface tablet to run x86 Windows stuff that I can’t emulate on Mac.

Btw, Apple Card limits suck, they base the limit only on your own disclosure, don’t do a hard pull on credit report. I managed to get the 12 installments on almost 6k, after paying off early all the stuff I had on it. I have like literally 20x less credit on it than on some other card.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Just curious: have you considered an iPad Pro (or any other iPad line) as a mobile device with inking capabilities?

I have an iPad, and had an iPad pro 12.9 gen 1. I can't stand having to find workarounds for everything such as a command line or using websites such as inkarnate.com for mapping.

Plus, I have a Surface Pro 7 now and it is great.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Ordered a 14" MBP today to replace my wife's Surface Book with. It has a similar resolution to the Surface Book unlike the downgrade that the Surface Studio Laptop stupidly has and it's *way* more powerful for the money. We're not getting rid of any other Surface Books in the office but as and when they need to be replaced or we hire new people, we're looking into whether to go Apple. Weirdly, Apple just seems like better value right now.

You think that 14 is a good value? Only if you don't need inking...then maybe.


Nah, not even then.

 

[LeeW]

I guess that means the replacement for the Intel Mac Mini will have an M2? chip then?

Not sure. I think the most likely answer is that Apple did not want to launch a cheaper product that had all of the same cpu/gpu/ram configurations alongside the MBPs. So a silent launch in a few weeks maybe. Who knows but they need to get rid of that remaining intel MM at some point.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

You think that 14 is a good value? Only if you don't need inking...then maybe.


Nah, not even then.

Yes, I do, but I place zero value in the inking feature of Surface Books. Performance wise,

We've been using Surface Books in our office almost exclusively for the past couple of years and no one has ever used their machines as a tablet and touch itself has hardly ever been used. We wanted Windows laptops because we were originally planning on using software that was Windows only and went with Surface Books because they had such a great screen, were very well built and we knew they'd always have good support from Microsoft both in OS integration and hardware. The 3k x 2k 14" screens were brilliant for office productivity. Microsoft has indicated that the Surface Book line is ending with the Surface Book 3 and the spiritual successor will be the Surface Laptop Studio, where they've downgraded the screen resolution.

For our staff that had entry level Surface Books, it seems that a MacBook Air would be a cheaper, faster and more portable solution. For our staff that had higher end spec Surface Books, a MacBook Pro 14" or 16" looks to be cheaper, faster and more portable. We're obviously not just replacing all of our computers but as machines fail and need replacing or new staff get on-boarded, we're looking at Apple's laptops as an option largely as it looks to be more cost effective and our experience with Surface Books hasn't been problem free by a long shot (Windows 10 update 20h2 was an absolute disaster in particular). Granted, if you need the touch features then your mileage may vary but as I said, no one in our office has ever used that functionality. Even if they did need some touch, a MacBook Air + iPad is very cost competitive with entry level SB3s or SLSs.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Yes, I do, but I place zero value in the inking feature of Surface Books. Performance wise,

We've been using Surface Books in our office almost exclusively for the past couple of years and no one has ever used their machines as a tablet and touch itself has hardly ever been used. We wanted Windows laptops because we were originally planning on using software that was Windows only and went with Surface Books because they had such a great screen, were very well built and we knew they'd always have good support from Microsoft both in OS integration and hardware. The 3k x 2k 14" screens were brilliant for office productivity. Microsoft has indicated that the Surface Book line is ending with the Surface Book 3 and the spiritual successor will be the Surface Laptop Studio, where they've downgraded the screen resolution.

For our staff that had entry level Surface Books, it seems that a MacBook Air would be a cheaper, faster and more portable solution. For our staff that had higher end spec Surface Books, a MacBook Pro 14" or 16" looks to be cheaper, faster and more portable. We're obviously not just replacing all of our computers but as machines fail and need replacing or new staff get on-boarded, we're looking at Apple's laptops as an option largely as it looks to be more cost effective and our experience with Surface Books hasn't been problem free by a long shot (Windows 10 update 20h2 was an absolute disaster in particular). Granted, if you need the touch features then your mileage may vary but as I said, no one in our office has ever used that functionality. Even if they did need some touch, a MacBook Air + iPad is very cost competitive with entry level SB3s or SLSs.

I would need to know what you do in that office. Excel is not as good, server connections not as good. Just a couple of exampes. There are more. Generally speaking though, it should work. Just don't underestimate training staff in using a new OS.

 

[Spanky Deluxe]

I would need to know what you do in that office. Excel is not as good, server connections not as good. Just a couple of exampes. There are more. Generally speaking though, it should work. Just don't underestimate training staff in using a new OS.

Most of the work is done in browser sessions looking at rotas in our cloud based scheduling system or our browser based intranet. Usually quite a lot of tabs and windows, so it's more intensive than it might sound. We use OneDrive for document management. It's basically browser based stuff and Microsoft Office for most of the staff and Office is virtually the same between Windows and Macs now (aside from Outlook not adding shared mailboxes automatically still). I'm the only one that actually uses any Windows only software and yet I'm the only one that has always had a Mac.

 

[eltoslightfoot]

Most of the work is done in browser sessions looking at rotas in our cloud based scheduling system or our browser based intranet. Usually quite a lot of tabs and windows, so it's more intensive than it might sound. We use OneDrive for document management. It's basically browser based stuff and Microsoft Office for most of the staff and Office is virtually the same between Windows and Macs now (aside from Outlook not adding shared mailboxes automatically still). I'm the only one that actually uses any Windows only software and yet I'm the only one that has always had a Mac.

That should work fine, and I bet most of that would work, as you say, on the lower end macs anyway.