Surface Devices

[kazmac]

I watched that video, and he makes some nice points. Also what's with these computer makers jumping into the headphone business ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

😋If Apple can do it, so can we? 🤔

MS has come up with some unique tweaks to those headphones (as they do with all of their hardware).

Dave does make some nice and valid points about who the SB3 is for. For my use, one machine cannot do everything (as much as I want that).

 

[Dave245]

A lot of these tech companies do seem to be jumping on the bandwagon for wireless headphones. I think after Apple showed the big success of the AirPods, everyone else wanted a slice of the pie. It will be interesting to see Apple's rumoured over the ear headphones, Jon Prosser (the very reliable leaker) has said Apple intends to release them under the AirPods brand later the this year.

 

[LeeW]

Microsoft is building their own eco-system, that is all you are seeing here. Just not as locked-in as Apple.

 

[xraydoc]

I've just watched a review of the Surface Book 3, they say that when used as a tablet (screen detached) it only lasts 3.2 hours i spend longer than that with my tablets. For example i've been using my iPad Pro for the last 7 hours at home today.

That's pretty much the same as what I get on the SB2. The battery in the screen is fairly small (room is needed for the rest of everything). The keyboard houses the main batteries.

The Surface Book line isn't designed to be a full-time tablet. But you can take the screen off, put it on backwards and fold it down, giving you a laptop/tabletop tablet-style PC ("studio mode") with a good angle for writing/drawing and the full battery life of the keyboard base plus the dGPU in the keyboard base and access to all the available ports.

 

[derekamoss]

I've just watched a review of the Surface Book 3, they say that when used as a tablet (screen detached) it only lasts 3.2 hours i spend longer than that with my tablets. For example i've been using my iPad Pro for the last 7 hours at home today.

That's actually a lot better than the SB 2, I'm jealous. As someone said above you can charge directly from the tablet. Also you can always flip they keyboard around back which is what I do because it has the normal battery life and the SD Card is in the tablet so when I have it detached i loose that. I honestly prefer it with the kickstand backwards because then you have a hinge as well to prop it. Only time I detach is when I am writing on a flat surface. Plus the tablet portion is deceptively light weight.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I've just watched a review of the Surface Book 3, they say that when used as a tablet (screen detached) it only lasts 3.2 hours i spend longer than that with my tablets. For example i've been using my iPad Pro for the last 7 hours at home today.

If you use the SB3 in attached tablet mode (ie screen reversed and folded flat) you would get more like 12 hours of comparable IPP usage

 

[Dave245]

If you use the SB3 in attached tablet mode (ie screen reversed and folded flat) you would get more like 12 hours of comparable IPP usage

But wouldn’t that make it much heavier than just the screen?

 

[LeeW]

But wouldn’t that make it much heavier than just the screen?

You have to accept trade-offs for this type of device, It's a powerful laptop, masquerading as a tablet, it is not a tablet masquerading as a laptop.

 

[xraydoc]

But wouldn’t that make it much heavier than just the screen?

Surface Book ≠ Surface Pro.

 

[Dave245]

You have to accept trade-offs for this type of device, It's a powerful laptop, masquerading as a tablet, it is not a tablet masquerading as a laptop.

This is why I’m re-thinking about Surface Pro.

 

[LeeW]

This is why I’m re-thinking about Surface Pro.

I have got my iPad 11 on eBay today, no selling fee weekend, so I was looking again at the Surface Pro 7 reviews, but still, the issue is that nobody is even getting an 8 hour day out of it 5-7 is the norm, not even close to the claimed 10+ hours.

In most cases that would be ok but I need something that will give 8 hours, been caught out too many times that I need to ensure that once I am back to normal non-WFH days, a device will last the day.

 

[Dave245]

I have got my iPad 11 on eBay today, no selling fee weekend, so I was looking again at the Surface Pro 7 reviews, but still, the issue is that nobody is even getting an 8 hour day out of it 5-7 is the norm, not even close to the claimed 10+ hours.

In most cases that would be ok but I need something that will give 8 hours, been caught out too many times that I need to ensure that once I am back to normal non-WFH days, a device will last the day.

Also the issue with the Pro 7 is that it is now 7 months old. The Surface Pro 8 will probably be announced at some point this year. Not sure if Microsoft stick to exact dates like Apple tend to do, but October was when the Pro 7 was announced. Battery life is also important for me as well.

 

[kazmac]

If I were in that position, I'd get a 13" SB3 with the caveat of knowing you'll be dealing with weight to get the full 8 hours of tablet use. The bonus is, you have a dGPU too and can do a lot more.

As it stands, the 11" iPP is too heavy for one handed use, and I'm barely getting 5 hours using Procreate, Safari, Photos and VLC (Not using all of them at the same time either, generally just Procreate and Photos and then turn off bluetooth and go on the internet). Yes, the pencil experience is smoother when Promotion and the pencil decide to work together (about every fourth drawing attempt), but it's not worth the coin dropped on it. This experience showed me once and for all, the cheaper, older Apple tech works better for me.

To wit, I get much more use and enjoyment from my 2019 iPad than any other iPad I've bought in the last 3 years, despite the hiccups with Pencil lag and Procreate because of memory. I prefer drawing that on that non-laminated screen anyway, as ProMotion has been a crap shoot on any iPP I've tried.

If I can motivate myself to learn Affinity Designer and start moving away from iOS/Mac only art programs, I know what I want in a Windows machine (more cores and a solid dGPU), just wish MS made what I wanted (besides those headphones).

 

[jimmy_uk]

I've waited along time for Apple to update the ipad pro gen 3 to a better construction and OS. They didn't improve the build internally so device is still bendy/fragile but they have improved the OS coupled with the AMK.

But I still feel I won't be totally happy with the rigid limitations of the mobile OS despite the fact it's super fast and has alot of app support. I gave up on ipads a few years ago because they felt like a large and expensive iphone. I have an iPhone so do everything mobile on this, the heavy lifting is on the desktop.

Now I can get student discount with Microsoft UK store so I'm skating around the idea of a Surface Go 2 M3 8GB 128GB with keyboard = £700.

Microsoft also have the Surface Pro 7 i5 128gb on sale = £789 + alcantara keyboard £134.99 for a total of = £923.99.

I will primarily be using any of these devices for media consumption. But I really like the idea that I could possibly do more on the Surface devices. Also the option for floating windows etc and more customisation to how I want to do things. I use a Windows desktop at home so can share data between them. I'd like to think I might be able to do some light music production using Acid Pro 7 maybe?

The big advantage to Apple products is they retain alot of value when selling down the road. Also the endless glowing reviews for the new ipad pros with AMK make it hard to resist! And the long battery life is a real winner. Quad speakers sound class leading. Youtube etc is fluid.

I wish I could make my damn mind up. I will mostly be using as a laptop but really like the idea of a 2 in 1 when I want to read comics and documents etc. I used to love using my old 10.5 ipad pro with keyboard but hated the no mouse support. The surface go 2 looks like a decent alternative but I'm still not sure Windows 10 is a fluid tablet OS. Not many solid real use reviews for the Go 2 yet either.

 

[Dave245]

I've waited along time for Apple to update the ipad pro gen 3 to a better construction and OS. They didn't improve the build internally so device is still bendy/fragile but they have improved the OS coupled with the AMK.

But I still feel I won't be totally happy with the rigid limitations of the mobile OS despite the fact it's super fast and has alot of app support. I gave up on ipads a few years ago because they felt like a large and expensive iphone. I have an iPhone so do everything mobile on this, the heavy lifting is on the desktop.

Now I can get student discount with Microsoft UK store so I'm skating around the idea of a Surface Go 2 M3 8GB 128GB with keyboard = £700.

Microsoft also have the Surface Pro 7 i5 128gb on sale = £789 + alcantara keyboard £134.99 for a total of = £923.99.

I will primarily be using any of these devices for media consumption. But I really like the idea that I could possibly do more on the Surface devices. Also the option for floating windows etc and more customisation to how I want to do things. I use a Windows desktop at home so can share data between them. I'd like to think I might be able to do some light music production using Acid Pro 7 maybe?

The big advantage to Apple products is they retain alot of value when selling down the road. Also the endless glowing reviews for the new ipad pros with AMK make it hard to resist! And the long battery life is a real winner. Quad speakers sound class leading. Youtube etc is fluid.

I wish I could make my damn mind up. I will mostly be using as a laptop but really like the idea of a 2 in 1 when I want to read comics and documents etc. I used to love using my old 10.5 ipad pro with keyboard but hated the no mouse support. The surface go 2 looks like a decent alternative but I'm still not sure Windows 10 is a fluid tablet OS. Not many solid real use reviews for the Go 2 yet either.

They made no structure differences in the 2020 iPad Pro update. In fact they didn’t really make a processor update all that much, it was the same one but with a Z attached at the end, an extra core which is accessible now. Oh and they added the LIDAR camera.
They did add mouse support as well but that was in a previous software update. The Magic Keyboard does get great reviews and it looks good. The price of that keyboard tho is hard to swallow.

It is really difficult to say for sure because I haven’t been able to get my hands on either the Surface Book 3 or the new iPad Pro, to test out.
I do know that I regret selling my Surface Pro 6.

 

[SteveJUAE]

But wouldn’t that make it much heavier than just the screen?

Honestly Dave I really wonder at times if you are genuinely indecisive or just like posting, we went through 100's of posts on the SP6 and here you are again

Given you have 60 days return period just get he damn thing and make your mind up instead of all these fickle comments

Your IPP is many times heavier than your phone yet a different and more powerful experience and the SB3 can be same in relation to the IPP or can have lessor endurance and still a more capable format, take your pick this is the whole point of the SB3 flexibility and equally the limitation of IPP by comparison

 

[Dave245]

Honestly Dave I really wonder at times if you are genuinely indecisive or just like posting, we went through 100's of posts on the SP6 and here you are again

Given you have 60 days return period just get he damn thing and make your mind up instead of all these fickle comments

Your IPP is many times heavier than your phone yet a different and more powerful experience and the SB3 can be same in relation to the IPP or can have lessor endurance and still a more capable format, take your pick this is the whole point of the SB3 flexibility and equally the limitation of IPP by comparison

VERY indecisive, i'm use to Apple products and have been for many years. Sometimes i think i should get a Surface and other times i think to play it safe and stick with the iPad Pro and MacBook Pro that i already have. There are things that annoy me about Apple, more so just lately, also i can't say that i've been a big fan of Windows over the years.

Also i can't buy the Surface Book 3 yet, it isn't released here in the U.K until June 4th.

 

[kazmac]

VERY indecisive, i'm use to Apple products and have been for many years. Sometimes i think i should get a Surface and other times i think to play it safe and stick with the iPad Pro and MacBook Pro that i already have. There are things that annoy me about Apple, more so just lately, also i can't say that i've been a big fan of Windows over the years.

Also i can't buy the Surface Book 3 yet, it isn't released here in the U.K until June 4th.

Well, that is me as well.

Though I shot myself in the foot in buying a Lenovo PC and an iPP for this job when neither work with Citrix at all (Ironically, my aging iMac has done the best job in remoting into my work PC).

I understand for me to jump to Windows, I will have to change the art programs I use and start using a Wacom tablet.

 

[Mendota]

If I were in that position, I'd get a 13" SB3 with the caveat of knowing you'll be dealing with weight to get the full 8 hours of tablet use. The bonus is, you have a dGPU too and can do a lot more.

As it stands, the 11" iPP is too heavy for one handed use, and I'm barely getting 5 hours using Procreate, Safari, Photos and VLC (Not using all of them at the same time either, generally just Procreate and Photos and then turn off bluetooth and go on the internet). Yes, the pencil experience is smoother when Promotion and the pencil decide to work together (about every fourth drawing attempt), but it's not worth the coin dropped on it. This experience showed me once and for all, the cheaper, older Apple tech works better for me.

To wit, I get much more use and enjoyment from my 2019 iPad than any other iPad I've bought in the last 3 years, despite the hiccups with Pencil lag and Procreate because of memory. I prefer drawing that on that non-laminated screen anyway, as ProMotion has been a crap shoot on any iPP I've tried.

If I can motivate myself to learn Affinity Designer and start moving away from iOS/Mac only art programs, I know what I want in a Windows machine (more cores and a solid dGPU), just wish MS made what I wanted (besides those headphones).

I think the Surface Book could work for you (Just got my new one!). As a Artist you would be able to run Painter 2020 the big one, and programs such as Rebelle, ArtRage, and the like. There are some very nice Two and One Ultrabook's out there, such as the new Samsung Flex, but the issue is that they don't have the dedicated GPU. They are using Iris Pro. Intel's graphics are nice, but they still don't have the power of dedicated GPU, and Painter and Photoshop actively use those now. I like Affinty, but it doesn't scale well on 4 and 5k devices. The Surface Book is a dream in many ways for an artist. I like my Surface Pro, but again it doesn't have the power to do everything in Painter 2020 or the current Photoshop. You can run them of course, but you have to scale back, and this is true of all Ultrabooks.
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I've waited along time for Apple to update the ipad pro gen 3 to a better construction and OS. They didn't improve the build internally so device is still bendy/fragile but they have improved the OS coupled with the AMK.

But I still feel I won't be totally happy with the rigid limitations of the mobile OS despite the fact it's super fast and has alot of app support. I gave up on ipads a few years ago because they felt like a large and expensive iphone. I have an iPhone so do everything mobile on this, the heavy lifting is on the desktop.

Now I can get student discount with Microsoft UK store so I'm skating around the idea of a Surface Go 2 M3 8GB 128GB with keyboard = £700.

Microsoft also have the Surface Pro 7 i5 128gb on sale = £789 + alcantara keyboard £134.99 for a total of = £923.99.

I will primarily be using any of these devices for media consumption. But I really like the idea that I could possibly do more on the Surface devices. Also the option for floating windows etc and more customisation to how I want to do things. I use a Windows desktop at home so can share data between them. I'd like to think I might be able to do some light music production using Acid Pro 7 maybe?

The big advantage to Apple products is they retain alot of value when selling down the road. Also the endless glowing reviews for the new ipad pros with AMK make it hard to resist! And the long battery life is a real winner. Quad speakers sound class leading. Youtube etc is fluid.

I wish I could make my damn mind up. I will mostly be using as a laptop but really like the idea of a 2 in 1 when I want to read comics and documents etc. I used to love using my old 10.5 ipad pro with keyboard but hated the no mouse support. The surface go 2 looks like a decent alternative but I'm still not sure Windows 10 is a fluid tablet OS. Not many solid real use reviews for the Go 2 yet either.

I would go with the Surface Pro, and you can wait on buying the keyboard if you like. Trust me as a user of both Surface Pro and iPad, the applications and use on the Pro win for me every time. I love Painter Essentials, Rebelle, ArtRage, Exeprssi, and the Topaz filters. I also run Paintshop pro and Affinity for my photography needs. It does it all without the restrictions of iPad. In addition if you want to keep your work sorted forget about Apple's so called file system on the iPad, even Android is better.

 

[Queen6]

Wait and see as one of the few things the 10th Gen Intel CPU's bring is a healthy boost in graphics. Personally I do my homework then dive in and make the very best of it. You will never be satisfied otherwise, transitioning away from Apple I found all I needed to do in most cases was read up a little. To date it's been a far better experience all around. Most of all I am now in full control of the HW & SW experience, not a narcissistic & greedy company solely focused on the cash grab.

Since moving all professional use and a good deal of personal use away from Apple I've never looked back and thought it was a miscalculation. Apple has changed simple as that, it's now a very consumer hostile company with only it's own self in mind. This is clearly illustrated in it's design language, combined with sloppy SW. Best of all I don't need to suffer Apple's execs procrastinating how awesome their products are when in reality many are severely flawed and or time limited.

There was a time when a new Mac would be an exciting event. Today I don't even bother to watch the Keynote's as I know it will be the same boring, dull, underperforming, unimaginative, overpriced hardware coupled with half-baked software or another consumer gadget that requires yet another Apple product to actually be of any use...

Spec a device, do a spot of research on it's merits. then purchase, stick with it for a couple of years. You will adjust and learn. On the next cycle you will be far better armed to make a more defined purchasing decision, equally if you keep wavering you will never be happy and be stuck in limbo indefinitely. If you've come this far, there's a fair chance your already aware of Apple's shenanigans, the rest is up to you...

n.b. not intended at any individual

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

Wait and see as one of the few things the 10th Gen Intel CPU's bring is a healthy boost in graphics. Personally I do my homework then dive in and make the very best of it. You will never be satisfied otherwise, transitioning away from Apple I found all I needed to do in most cases was read up a little. To date it's been a far better experience all around. Most of all I am now in full control of the HW & SW experience, not a narcissistic & greedy company solely focused on the cash grab.

Since moving all professional use and a good deal of personal use away from Apple I've never looked back and thought it was a miscalculation. Apple has changed simple as that, it's now a very consumer hostile company with only it's own self in mind. This is clearly illustrated in it's design language, combined with sloppy SW. Best of all I don't need to suffer Apple's execs procrastinating how awesome their products are when in reality many are severely flawed and or time limited.

There was a time when a new Mac would be an exciting event. Today I don't even bother to watch the Keynote's as I know it will be the same boring, dull, underperforming, unimaginative, overpriced hardware coupled with half-baked software or another consumer gadget that requires yet another Apple product to actually be of any use...

Spec a device, do a spot of research on it's merits. then purchase, stick with it for a couple of years. You will adjust and learn. On the next cycle you will be far better armed to make a more defined purchasing decision, equally if you keep wavering you will never be happy and be stuck in limbo indefinitely. If you've come this far, there's a fair chance your already aware of Apple's shenanigans, the rest is up to you...

n.b. not intended at any individual

Q-6

Further to Q-6 points I just get the overwhelming feeling we are just fusing over so many little points we are killing the fun in ownership

Given that many here can get try before you buy deals and easy returns I see no risk and no reason to not try

If we applied the same criteria to buying a car or house most would still be living with their mum and riding a bike LOL

Get on with it and give us some feedback

Get it ordered and enjoy the anticipation of something new to try

I have gone off the Galaxy Book S for my wife and the Flex is my new favorite for her but can't find anywhere to buy it other some iffy ebay seller in HK and no mention of the new surfaces here in KL

I did manage to pick up a One Mix UMPC, it runs rings around my old MS GO so not all is lost

 

[Dave245]

Further to Q-6 points I just get the overwhelming feeling we are just fusing over so many little points we are killing the fun in ownership

Given that many here can get try before you buy deals and easy returns I see no risk and no reason to not try

If we applied the same criteria to buying a car or house most would still be living with their mum and riding a bike LOL

Get on with it and give us some feedback

Get it ordered and enjoy the anticipation of something new to try

I have gone off the Galaxy Book S for my wife and the Flex is my new favorite for her but can't find anywhere to buy it other some iffy ebay seller in HK and no mention of the new surfaces here in KL

I did manage to pick up a One Mix UMPC, it runs rings around my old MS GO so not all is lost

Those of us in the U.K can't buy it yet anyway, as I previously mentioned the Book 3 isn't available until June 4th. It is up for pre-order and Microsoft are giving away the Surface Pen as a pre-order bonus (in your choice of colour).

The intention of this thread was initially to get peoples thoughts on Surface devices, initially the Surface Pro, when I was deciding whether to get it or not. I eventually did (as some of you know) but ended up selling it not long after. I don't want to make that mistake again, which is why I'm taking my time, there isn't really any rush and since the Book 3 isn't available until June 4th for us Brits, I might as well do my research. During the lockdown, I have a lot of time in between working.

I often flip flop between deciding to get the Book 3 and sticking with iPad Pro, but I will make a decision shortly, since there is no rush I'm enjoying the research and getting other people's opinions, thoughts and advice.

 

[derekamoss]

Those of us in the U.K can't buy it yet anyway, as I previously mentioned the Book 3 isn't available until June 4th. It is up for pre-order and Microsoft are giving away the Surface Pen as a pre-order bonus (in your choice of colour).

The intention of this thread was initially to get peoples thoughts on Surface devices, initially the Surface Pro, when I was deciding whether to get it or not. I eventually did (as some of you know) but ended up selling it not long after. I don't want to make that mistake again, which is why I'm taking my time, there isn't really any rush and since the Book 3 isn't available until June 4th for us Brits, I might as well do my research. During the lockdown, I have a lot of time in between working.

I often flip flop between deciding to get the Book 3 and sticking with iPad Pro, but I will make a decision shortly, since there is no rush I'm enjoying the research and getting other people's opinions, thoughts and advice.

Trust me, you will like it. Best choice I ever made. 10 years ago if someone told me I would be using anything other than Mac, I would say they are bat shirt crazy! Yet here I am on my Surface Book 2. I stuck with Apple just because of MacOS at the time but then the Surface product came out and I really liked the design and I was like I'll just wait for Apple to release a Tablet running OS X and everybody at the time wanted it and assumed they would... and we all know how it went trying to appease people and not admitting they were wrong and people actually liked the idea of the Surface Products this goes. We got the iPad Pro with Pencil, a laptop with a touch bar, and a crazy magic keyboard and stand for the iPad. Also I have always wondered how Apple literally made touch screen devices mainstream and is now the ONLY computer company in the world that doesn't have a touch screen computer.... but we got the Magical Best ever touch bar.

 

[jimmy_uk]

The digital digest has an video opinion update on the 15" SB3 here:

 

[kazmac]

Trust me, you will like it. Best choice I ever made. 10 years ago if someone told me I would be using anything other than Mac, I would say they are bat shirt crazy! Yet here I am on my Surface Book 2. I stuck with Apple just because of MacOS at the time but then the Surface product came out and I really liked the design and I was like I'll just wait for Apple to release a Tablet running OS X and everybody at the time wanted it and assumed they would... and we all know how it went trying to appease people and not admitting they were wrong and people actually liked the idea of the Surface Products this goes. We got the iPad Pro with Pencil, a laptop with a touch bar, and a crazy magic keyboard and stand for the iPad. Also I have always wondered how Apple literally made touch screen devices mainstream and is now the ONLY computer company in the world that doesn't have a touch screen computer.... but we got the Magical Best ever touch bar.

Very true. And MS ran with Apple’s lampshade g3 and made it even better (the Surface Studio). I generally research, but I do not know until I get the machine home and test to see how it will match my work flow. I did not do that with this job as I just wanted something cheaper* that I presumed would work with Citrix and my job’s lame network. Little did I know I needed a lot of RAM and an older OS.

*On three months probation, so what happens after June 30th is anyone’s guess. In any case, both purchases were a waste with their newer specs etc.

I can finally say that after so much back and forth, I finally know what I need and need to do to jump.

@Mendota thanks, but I’d like more than four cores, a better dGPU and a Wacom tablet/pen experience instead of using a Surface pen for art. I just do not find the Surface pen comfortable or fluid enough for that use. Love it with a Surface Laptop though.