Surface Devices

[SteveJUAE]

The digital digest has an video opinion update on the 15" SB3 here:

Not too impressed with this guys views nor this overly tagging of content creators, there are plenty of users outside of hobbyist doing family video who are probably over specing

I have the Razer 15" OLED Samsung panel which is tweaked better than his LG and its a considerable cost extra

The Razer is $4000 and the SB3 only $2800 a bargain LOL given it's flexibility

Do not underestimate the quality of SB's Magnesium shell over Ali or 3:2 aspect ration for many uses, not all are buying these laptops for YouTube video etc LOL or gaming and many dailies are served better in 3:2

Don't get me wrong OLED is great and QLED seems a good high to middle ground but Sammie is not doing them in 3:2, so wishful thinking is not a negative

Same as noting you can get more bang for your buck, well this is just a PHD in stating the obvious we all know you can get cheaper build etc high spec laptops .

We are looking at the premium end of the market and the SB brings something unique with it other than just seeking raw power comparisons as a negative and not playing to its strengths and versatility

If you just want grunt many gaming laptops offer more value as @Queen6 will note but no one else is offering a more complete solution opposed to 2 devices in a premium package

 

[xraydoc]

Not too impressed with this guys views nor this overly tagging of content creators, there are plenty of users outside of hobbyist doing family video who are probably over specing

I have the Razer 15" OLED Samsung panel which is tweaked better than his LG and its a considerable cost extra

The Razer is $4000 and the SB3 only $2800 a bargain LOL given it's flexibility

Do not underestimate the quality of SB's Magnesium shell over Ali or 4:3 aspect ration for many uses, not all are buying these laptops for YouTube video etc LOL or gaming and many dailies are served better in 4:3

Don't get me wrong OLED is great and QLED seems a good high to middle ground but Sammie is not doing them in 4:3, so wishful thinking is not a negative

Same as noting you can get more bang for your buck, well this is just a PHD in stating the obvious we all know you can get cheaper build etc high spec laptops .

We are looking at the premium end of the market and the SB brings something unique with it other than just seeking raw power comparisons as a negative and not playing to its strengths and versatility

If you just want grunt many gaming laptops offer more value as @Queen6 will note but no one else is offering a more complete solution opposed to 2 devices in a premium package

Surface is 3:2, not 4:3, just FYI. Just noting for clarity, that’s all. Not a comment on your opinions.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Surface is 3:2, not 4:3, just FYI. Just noting for clarity, that’s all. Not a comment on your opinions.

Thks too many Bacardi's

 

[Dave245]

I have just watched this video in my research, it's a good video that is unbiased. It has some good information for us Apple users who are seriously considering the switch to a Surface Book.

 

[Queen6]

Not too impressed with this guys views nor this overly tagging of content creators, there are plenty of users outside of hobbyist doing family video who are probably over specing

I have the Razer 15" OLED Samsung panel which is tweaked better than his LG and its a considerable cost extra

The Razer is $4000 and the SB3 only $2800 a bargain LOL given it's flexibility

Do not underestimate the quality of SB's Magnesium shell over Ali or 3:2 aspect ration for many uses, not all are buying these laptops for YouTube video etc LOL or gaming and many dailies are served better in 3:2

Don't get me wrong OLED is great and QLED seems a good high to middle ground but Sammie is not doing them in 3:2, so wishful thinking is not a negative

Same as noting you can get more bang for your buck, well this is just a PHD in stating the obvious we all know you can get cheaper build etc high spec laptops .

We are looking at the premium end of the market and the SB brings something unique with it other than just seeking raw power comparisons as a negative and not playing to its strengths and versatility

If you just want grunt many gaming laptops offer more value as @Queen6 will note but no one else is offering a more complete solution opposed to 2 devices in a premium package

That's the one if your looking for sheer performance as many of the gaming notebooks are really well tuned these days with ample power delivery, however you can forget about battery longevity and a 2in1 solution. To me Surface Book has far more positives than negatives and is really in a class of it's own and similar to Apple of old being a joy to use.

I used my Surface Book professionally for two years then passed it onto my daughter and she continues to use it today without any issue whatsoever, so in some respects it was worth the premium pricing. It has also aged well showing little to no physical wear & tear. Personally If my needs change I'd certainly consider another Surface Book, although I think I'd opt for the 15" next time around.

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

That's the one if your looking for sheer performance as many of the gaming notebooks are really well tuned these days with ample power delivery, however you can forget about battery longevity and a 2in1 solution. To me Surface Book has far more positives than negatives and is really in a class of it's own and similar to Apple of old a joy to use.

I used my Surface Book professionally for two years then passed it onto my daughter and she continues to use it today without any issue whatsoever, so in some respects it was worth the premium pricing. It has also aged well showing little to no physical wear & tear. Personally If my needs change I'd certainly consider another Surface Book, although I think I'd opt for the 15" next time around.

Q-6

Yep in my minor rant I forgot to note the amazing battery endurance of the SB, 12 hours over my 5.5 hours of my Razer

Bet it will be a good 3 months before the SB3 turns up in KL

 

[Dave245]

So far the reviews differ, some call it a great laptop and an ok tablet while others are calling it a great 2 in 1. I’ve noticed that a lot of reviews think it’s not the best tablet but a much better laptop. It’s interesting to see what these reviews are saying.

 

[Falhófnir]

So far the reviews differ, some call it a great laptop and an ok tablet while others are calling it a great 2 in 1. I’ve noticed that a lot of reviews think it’s not the best tablet but a much better laptop. It’s interesting to see what these reviews are saying.

I guess it depends on what you're doing with a tablet - general browsing, YouTube, Netflix type usage should be a good experience (sans perhaps short battery endurance) but maybe less so if you're looking for an iPad-like experience with a vast ecosystem of touch optimised apps?

 

[fokmik]

 

[Dave245]

I guess it depends on what you're doing with a tablet - general browsing, YouTube, Netflix type usage should be a good experience (sans perhaps short battery endurance) but maybe less so if you're looking for an iPad-like experience with a vast ecosystem of touch optimised apps?

Me personally I use my iPad Pro a lot more than I do my iMac or my MacBook Pro. I use it daily for taking notes, email, drawing, editing photos, annotating and even some gaming (there are games I use to have on my Mac that I now have on my iPad Pro, such As Tropico.) On top of that I watch Netflix and my iTunes library, usually while either cooking or on the couch while having some down time.

A great tablet experience is important. For times when it isn’t I use my MacBook Pro or iMac. Usually for when im editing video (Final Cut Pro is just the best editing app out there. It’s what I learned with many years ago as well.) it’s why I’m doing research into the Book 3 as both a tablet and a laptop.

 

[Dave245]

 

[SteveJUAE]

So far the reviews differ, some call it a great laptop and an ok tablet while others are calling it a great 2 in 1. I’ve noticed that a lot of reviews think it’s not the best tablet but a much better laptop. It’s interesting to see what these reviews are saying.

Dave

There is no denying Surface devices are biased towards laptops esq use, but that is because they run the same OS as +90% of the world

However if any workflows and usage is limited by using IOS only then for that majority it does not matter how good the IPP tablet experience is, it's a failure and for limited and compromised use hence it's general media consumption device badge

These reviews bring little to the party given we are on the 3rd gen SB and 2nd Gen GO

Re "what they didn't tell you" is a classic example of regurgitating same old stuff and whats more important is what he did not tell you. Really comparing little mobile OS apps to full programs. The GO is no speed demon for sure but what your getting is assured compatibility with the no 1 software platform. If that is key to your usage then it's a no brainier over IOS tablets

Very few of us are masters of both tablets and laptops I doubt many artist are overly concerned power uses of professional scientific software etc and vice versa

Many of us will have a bias in one area or another and the other being more hobby related. Very few of us are actually on time critical activities that require the latest and greatest power specs after all MS Word does not need 8 cores LOL

Even in profession design offices with 100's of designers they are running relatively low spec 3 or 4 year old laptops or desktops on some of the worlds mega projects

As enthusiasts here it's nice to chat about specs and pros/cons strengths and weaknesses but for the majority the SB's will cover most user cases in one package is its appeal'

Comparisons to more capable devices etc really need to be in context of actual real usage over potential on paper.

 

[Dave245]

Dave

There is no denying Surface devices are biased towards laptops esq use, but that is because they run the same OS as +90% of the world

However if any workflows and usage is limited by using IOS only then for that majority it does not matter how good the IPP tablet experience is, it's a failure and for limited and compromised use hence it's general media consumption device badge

I wouldn’t say that the iPad Pro is only a media consumption device. Over the years it has gotten more capable (probably because Apple saw what Microsoft were doing with the Surface). What the iPad Pro needs is more Pro apps, Apple should look at bringing Final Cut Pro and Logic to the iPad Pro. A lot of video editors would love that, hell I would love that since I really love Final Cut Pro! It’s great video editing software.

The problem with Apple just lately is quality control and bugs slipping through the net. If it wasn’t for this, I wouldn’t even be considering switching to a Surface. Have issues with Apple lately but I also have reservations about Microsoft and Windows! which is why I’m doing a lot of research rather than just jumping in head first, especially since I can’t buy a Surface Book 3 yet anyway because the release date isn’t until June 4th here in U.K, and so it’s giving me time to think and choose.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I wouldn’t say that the iPad Pro is only a media consumption device. Over the years it has gotten more capable (probably because Apple saw what Microsoft were doing with the Surface). What the iPad Pro needs is more Pro apps, Apple should look at bringing Final Cut Pro and Logic to the iPad Pro. A lot of video editors would love that, hell I would love that since I really love Final Cut Pro! It’s great video editing software.

The problem with Apple just lately is quality control and bugs slipping through the net. If it wasn’t for this, I wouldn’t even be considering switching to a Surface. Have issues with Apple lately but I also have reservations about Microsoft and Windows! which is why I’m doing a lot of research rather than just jumping in head first, especially since I can’t buy a Surface Book 3 yet anyway because the release date isn’t until June 4th here in U.K, and so it’s giving me time to think and choose.

Dave

I did not say IPP is only a media consumption devise, I said for those for those that find IOS the limiting factor for their work flow

Final Cut Pro and Logic are used by a small % of professional users I am not so sure Apple will invest in anything other than neutered versions

You have had a W10 SP6 so it's not like it's unknown territory for you, on hands use at 0 risk (60 days) get it pre-ordered and you can still browse at your leisure till it arrives

See Lisa suggests the 13" SB3 is more inline with competition ( or lack of them) in specs than the 15" in 2020

 

[michael9891]

use at 0 risk (60 days) get it pre-ordered and you can still browse at your leisure till it arrives

And don't forget the free Surface pen for pre ordering.

I was able to take a SB3 through the checkout under the 10% student discount, despite not being one. Not sure how they check that out later.

Currently awaiting a 3rd repair in a week on my XPS 9300. If that's not successful, really tempted by the 15" SB3. Just weighing up if it's worth paying the extra £1k.

 

[SteveJUAE]

And don't forget the free Surface pen for pre ordering.

I was able to take a SB3 through the checkout under the 10% student discount, despite not being one. Not sure how they check that out later.

Currently awaiting a 3rd repair in a week on my XPS 9300. If that's not successful, really tempted by the 15" SB3. Just weighing up if it's worth paying the extra £1k.

Surprisingly Lisa says the better spec for it's size vs competition is the 13" but if you are a casual gamer or a bit more in to video production the 15" does have a significant boost for your 1K than just screen real estate

PS and free pen

 

[Queen6]

Done the "tablet" with Apple and Android, now I have the best of both worlds with a W10 2in1 UMPC. I don't need to be concerned with Apple's limitations, restrictions & excuses, nor need to suffer seemingly endless app updates with Android. W10's tablet experience serves up enough for me and if I need to run simulations or just want to game I have an extremely competent notebook that delivers.

Q-6

 

[michael9891]

Surprisingly Lisa says the better spec for it's size vs competition is the 13" but if you are a casual gamer or a bit more in to video production the 15" does have a significant boost for your 1K than just screen real estate

PS and free pen

I went for the XPS to replace a 12.9 iPad (wanted to move from Apple & be mobile with Photoshop). I chose a 13" because I thought it would be perfect for traveling, which won't be happening anytime soon now. There's only a £200 difference between the top spec SB3 sizes, so if I got one, might as well go big.

 

[KarmaRocket]

I wanted an EDC device that I can use to write, mark up documents, watch youtube/streaming videos, play some games. I bought the 2018 iPad 12.9" with the keyboard and thought it would suit my needs. I was wrong. Fundamental issues with iOS make it a pain for even writing. My workflow involves doing research by going back and forth from browser, docs and Final Draft (I won't even go into how awful the iOS app is compared to the desktop version). My issue is how the iPad multitasks. It's just not very good, even with split view.

With Surface devices have a full fledged OS with pen support and more importantly options to grow with my needs. I'm starting to get into programming and game development. With a surface device I can easily install Unity, Unreal Engine, or any IDE. iPadOS doesn't even have XCode. Apple seems to want their users to carry multiple devices. And lock them into a very expensive ecosystem. Probably because they know people will pay for it. They do a good job, but if you look over the wall, you might see the grass is a little greener. it just depends on what you need and how much you're willing to go through some growing pains.

I'm a little disappointed with the SB3. If it had a 6 core processor and RTX, it would have been a day one purchase for me. It's not bad, but for what they are asking for, I think the premium price deserves some premium hardware as well. That's why they are getting some grief in reviews. RTX 2070 MaxQ has the same TDP as the RTX Quadro 3000. The RTX 2060 MaxQ is even lower. Not sure why they couldn't fit it in there.

 

[Mendota]

The digital digest has an video opinion update on the 15" SB3 here:

Lisa at Mobile Tech Review also has a video out. I like Digital digest, but he like most misses the point of the Surface Book. If you are a person that just needs a good quality ultra book, or laptop there are plenty of options. People that want Surface Book have a reason. For me being an artist, the Book can't be beat. If you want a laptop that can allow you to play your games, and still be a professional device that you can take to the office that is another use case. My brother in law who is an architect, doesn't leave home without it. It runs Rivet and all his pro apps, in addition to Office for his business, and he can take the tablet part with him to show things to his clients, without the awkwardness of a laptop. It is not for everyone, but it is the machine for those that want it.
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Very true. And MS ran with Apple’s lampshade g3 and made it even better (the Surface Studio). I generally research, but I do not know until I get the machine home and test to see how it will match my work flow. I did not do that with this job as I just wanted something cheaper* that I presumed would work with Citrix and my job’s lame network. Little did I know I needed a lot of RAM and an older OS.

*On three months probation, so what happens after June 30th is anyone’s guess. In any case, both purchases were a waste with their newer specs etc.

I can finally say that after so much back and forth, I finally know what I need and need to do to jump.

@Mendota thanks, but I’d like more than four cores, a better dGPU and a Wacom tablet/pen experience instead of using a Surface pen for art. I just do not find the Surface pen comfortable or fluid enough for that use. Love it with a Surface Laptop though.

Well you know Wacom makes their own Two and One. Their studio laptop. It is a bit larger and heavier than most ultra books, and the first one has some issues, but the second gen I hear has been fine. It is pricy, makes the Surface look affordable, but it will provide the ultimate Wacom experience.

 

[Mendota]

I wouldn’t say that the iPad Pro is only a media consumption device. Over the years it has gotten more capable (probably because Apple saw what Microsoft were doing with the Surface). What the iPad Pro needs is more Pro apps, Apple should look at bringing Final Cut Pro and Logic to the iPad Pro. A lot of video editors would love that, hell I would love that since I really love Final Cut Pro! It’s great video editing software.

The problem with Apple just lately is quality control and bugs slipping through the net. If it wasn’t for this, I wouldn’t even be considering switching to a Surface. Have issues with Apple lately but I also have reservations about Microsoft and Windows! which is why I’m doing a lot of research rather than just jumping in head first, especially since I can’t buy a Surface Book 3 yet anyway because the release date isn’t until June 4th here in U.K, and so it’s giving me time to think and choose.

One of the main issues with Apple and pro apps, to include Apple's own, is that they do not allow for upgrade pricing easily on the iPad. This puts developers at a disadvantage. There is only so much revenue you can generate from first time sales. At some point the market is saturated, then how can you continue to make money for your company? I feel bad for developers of apps like Procreate. The app is worth far more than they charge, but they are caught up in the "entitlement" mentality of so many users these days, especially on mobile devices. In addition I wonder how much longer they can go on without the ability to charge for upgrades for their efforts? This is what stops many serious developers from developing for IOS. Adobe and Microsoft get around it with their subscription pricing, and Apple needs Adobe and Microsoft at this point, and so they are reluctant to try and harass and bully them as they might do to other developers.
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I went for the XPS to replace a 12.9 iPad (wanted to move from Apple & be mobile with Photoshop). I chose a 13" because I thought it would be perfect for traveling, which won't be happening anytime soon now. There's only a £200 difference between the top spec SB3 sizes, so if I got one, might as well go big.

I did! 15 inch here.
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I wanted an EDC device that I can use to write, mark up documents, watch youtube/streaming videos, play some games. I bought the 2018 iPad 12.9" with the keyboard and thought it would suit my needs. I was wrong. Fundamental issues with iOS make it a pain for even writing. My workflow involves doing research by going back and forth from browser, docs and Final Draft (I won't even go into how awful the iOS app is compared to the desktop version). My issue is how the iPad multitasks. It's just not very good, even with split view.

With Surface devices have a full fledged OS with pen support and more importantly options to grow with my needs. I'm starting to get into programming and game development. With a surface device I can easily install Unity, Unreal Engine, or any IDE. iPadOS doesn't even have XCode. Apple seems to want their users to carry multiple devices. And lock them into a very expensive ecosystem. Probably because they know people will pay for it. They do a good job, but if you look over the wall, you might see the grass is a little greener. it just depends on what you need and how much you're willing to go through some growing pains.

I'm a little disappointed with the SB3. If it had a 6 core processor and RTX, it would have been a day one purchase for me. It's not bad, but for what they are asking for, I think the premium price deserves some premium hardware as well. That's why they are getting some grief in reviews. RTX 2070 MaxQ has the same TDP as the RTX Quadro 3000. The RTX 2060 MaxQ is even lower. Not sure why they couldn't fit it in there.

They do have a Quadro, but it is being sold as a "business" class machine for professionals. I debated it, but for my needs the regular one is fine. After all I run a powerful desktop and the Book is not my main device.

 

[michael9891]

@Mendota Do you actually have it in hand? Wondering what the battery life (if not gaming) is like on the 15"? Surely right up there with any available laptop.

 

[Mendota]

@Mendota Do you actually have it in hand? Wondering what the battery life (if not gaming) is like on the 15"? Surely right up there with any available laptop.

Battery life has always been good on Surface Book. Haven't had a chance to put the new one thru it's paces, but I expect the same.

 

[KarmaRocket]

Linus Tech Tips has a review up as well. They can get a little biased sometimes but I think they hit some key issues with the device. I think Microsoft needs a redesign. Hopefully they also release new models every year instead of every other year.

 

[xraydoc]

Linus Tech Tips has a review up as well. They can get a little biased sometimes but I think they hit some key issues with the device. I think Microsoft needs a redesign. Hopefully they also release new models every year instead of every other year.

My fantasy Surface Book 4 would include a power-friendly Ryzen CPU, Thunderbolt/USB 4, smaller bezels on the screen, thinner form-factor, and a next-gen Pen & digitizer system.