Surface Devices

[c0ppo]

Linus is spot on. Except for bezels. SB3 needs those bezels if you are gonna use it as a tablet as well. If you don't plan on using it as a tablet, well, then you are wasting you're money, because 99% of other laptops in that price range will give you more power and better CPU.

As for the CPU, MS messed up here. If only they went with Ryzen, they would have easily solved underpowered CPU.
But they didn't.

 

[Queen6]

My fantasy Surface Book 4 would include a power-friendly Ryzen CPU, Thunderbolt/USB 4, smaller bezels on the screen, thinner form-factor, and a next-gen Pen & digitizer system.

I'm ok with the bezels as they serve purpose in tablet mode and the 15" is fair size to hold onto.

Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

Linus Tech Tips has a review up as well. They can get a little biased sometimes but I think they hit some key issues with the device. I think Microsoft needs a redesign. Hopefully they also release new models every year instead of every other year.

I liked this review, what it confirmed that MS nailed KB/TP/Pen and finish 5 years back and are not going to fix something that's not broken, like Apple tried with their KB's LOL. Where could MS go with this level of refinement already.

Maybe they would of got less trivial comments if they changed the shell shape slightly/aesthetically and offered a black version but most would of gained little in real terms for this

The 13" is holding it's ground against others as Lisa noted and Linus skipped but to be fair he did note his extreme cases was in his world and not likely to occur for most

I suspect the balance (figuratively and literally) is far more complex in stuffing higher specs in the tablet portion than most of us can imagine and current design is the bottle neck for simply upping the base GPU specs

I often find TB3 comments a bit silly as in truth very few of us are splashing out $500 or more on true TB3 products it's nice on paper but wasted on most, same as hooking up 4x4k monitors

Getting a SB3 is like getting a laptop with a free $600-1000 tablet, if this has no value to you then get a normal clamshell/360 but I doubt there is very few of us that do not have a secondary device of some sort that the SB3 could make redundant.

 

[xraydoc]

I'm ok with the bezels as they serve purpose in tablet mode and the 15" is fair size to hold onto.

Q-6

Looking at my fingerprints on the screen edges, the bezels could still be way smaller. The iPad Pro gets along just fine with much smaller bezels. iPadOS has an edge-thumb detection algorithm that works quite well. Time for Microsoft to copy that.

 

[Dave245]

Looking at my fingerprints on the screen edges, the bezels could still be way smaller. The iPad Pro gets along just fine with much smaller bezels. iPadOS has an edge-thumb detection algorithm that works quite well. Time for Microsoft to copy that.

The iPad has always had great hand/thumb detection. My 2017 iPad Pro is the same. I'm not sure about the new 2018 onwards iPad Pro's as i don't have one. The bezels on those are also a lot smaller than my iPad Pro. The issue i have is how thin they are and possibly prone to bending (there have been a few posts/comments on this forum about the bending issue).

A different design would of been nice for the Surface Book, the thick bezels do make it look older. But then again Apple still hasn't redesigned the iMac and those bezels are BIG.

 

[Dave245]

With the discount I can get for the Surface Book 3 (10%) I have been looking at the following configurations:

13.5” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD = £2,204.10

OR the

15” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD storage = £2,429.10

Would you guys say it’s worth the extra £225 to get the 15” over the 13.5” Surface Book 3? So basically for an extra £225 I can jump from the 13.5” to the 15” Surface Book 3.

 

[LeeW]

Would you guys say

I would say I doubt you are going to buy it 🤣

 

[Queen6]

Personally I'd opt for the 15" larger display & more powerful dGPU

Q-6

 

[Dave245]

I would say I doubt you are going to buy it 🤣

How so?

 

[SteveJUAE]

With the discount I can get for the Surface Book 3 (10%) I have been looking at the following configurations:

13.5” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD = £2,204.10

OR the

15” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD storage = £2,429.10

Would you guys say it’s worth the extra £225 to get the 15” over the 13.5” Surface Book 3? So basically for an extra £225 I can jump from the 13.5” to the 15” Surface Book 3.

yes, 15"

 

[xraydoc]

With the discount I can get for the Surface Book 3 (10%) I have been looking at the following configurations:

13.5” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD = £2,204.10

OR the

15” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD storage = £2,429.10

Would you guys say it’s worth the extra £225 to get the 15” over the 13.5” Surface Book 3? So basically for an extra £225 I can jump from the 13.5” to the 15” Surface Book 3.

Depends on how much weight you want to carry around -- presuming it's not going just sit on a desk, the 15" is fairly heavy. The 13.5" weights just under what a 15" MacBook Pro weighs. The 15" SB2/3 is heavier than a 16" MacBook Pro.

The other thing to consider is that at least for the SB2, the 15" had a fan in the tablet portion for the CPU. The 13.5" was fanless. This helped the 15" with extended processor loads and thermals, with the tradeoff of a little bit of noise. I don't know for certain the Surface Book 3 is the same way, but it's something you may want to check.

I own the 13.5" Surface Book 2. The 15" was simply too big/heavy for me as a portable computer.

One other little curiosity: the 13.5" SB has a magnetic mount for the Microsoft Pen on the left hand side. The 15" has magnetic mounts on both the left and the right. Again, at least insofar as the Surface Book 2 line. I can only assume it's the same for the SB3.

 

[Dave245]

Depends on how much weight you want to carry around -- presuming it's not going just sit on a desk, the 15" is fairly heavy. The 13.5" weights just under what a 15" MacBook Pro weighs. The 15" SB2/3 is heavier than a 16" MacBook Pro.

The other thing to consider is that at least for the SB2, the 15" had a fan in the tablet portion for the CPU. The 13.5" was fanless. This helped the 15" with extended processor loads and thermals, with the tradeoff of a little bit of noise. I don't know for certain the Surface Book 3 is the same way, but it's something you may want to check.

I own the 13.5" Surface Book 2. The 15" was simply too big/heavy for me as a portable computer.

One other little curiosity: the 13.5" SB has a magnetic mount for the Microsoft Pen on the left hand side. The 15" has magnetic mounts on both the left and the right. Again, at least insofar as the Surface Book 2 line. I can only assume it's the same for the SB3.

My plan would be to use the Book 3 at my desk (at home) but to remove the tablet section when i want to watch Netflix, take notes, read, browse the web around the house (ie on the couch, kitchen and so on). I know that the tablet mode isn't the same as the iPad/iPadOS but for watching Netflix, iTunes library content and so on i think it should be fine.

 

[kazmac]

Lisa at Mobile Tech Review also has a video out. I like Digital digest, but he like most misses the point of the Surface Book. If you are a person that just needs a good quality ultra book, or laptop there are plenty of options. People that want Surface Book have a reason. For me being an artist, the Book can't be beat. If you want a laptop that can allow you to play your games, and still be a professional device that you can take to the office that is another use case. My brother in law who is an architect, doesn't leave home without it. It runs Rivet and all his pro apps, in addition to Office for his business, and he can take the tablet part with him to show things to his clients, without the awkwardness of a laptop. It is not for everyone, but it is the machine for those that want it.
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Well you know Wacom makes their own Two and One. Their studio laptop. It is a bit larger and heavier than most ultra books, and the first one has some issues, but the second gen I hear has been fine. It is pricy, makes the Surface look affordable, but it will provide the ultimate Wacom experience.

Thanks as always for your input. I’ve actually been thinking about that Wacom 2 in 1. You’re correct, it’s pricey and heavy (As far as weight, if I am not using a tablet one handed, I have no issue with the Surface Book or Wacom studio’s weight as I know they would be desk-table top use for me. I wouldn’t be carrying these out of the house).

Been disappointed with Windows ink using the Wacom bamboo pen, and the Surface pen as an art stylus. Of course some of this falls into my being a hobbyist who hasn’t used Corel, Photoshop or Affinity for digital art. In thinking about more cores and a dGPU, I’ve made so many tech purchase mistakes over the attempts to move to Windows (or just replace this aging iMac), I’d rather have more than less at these price points.

I admire what MS has done with hardware. They are on point. I wish they’d release a Surface Studio that was smaller, cheaper and with powerful internals. For all my research and testing, I do not know what would work until after I’ve used it for several weeks.

 

[Azrael9]

Personally, I'm glad to see M$ trying to compete in this area.

Pen input or 'touch' is getting increasingly popular from iPad to Surface.

I'd like to see a Wacom digitiser come to an easel style iMac variant.

But we have the iPad and Apple Pencil. Marry that to Procreate App and you've got just about the best stylus out there with the best hardware for this sort of thing.

Wacom make much bigger types of these things from modest to 32 inches.

But I do admire M$'s ambition to play 'creatively' in Apple's backyard where they launched the Surface Studio at the same time as Apple's touch strip Macbook.

It seemed like a changing of the guard at the time. Never had M$ more completely upstaged Apple and had their trousers down in public.

Full credit to M$. The Surface Studio desktop is drop. Dead. Gorgeous. The specs are a little behind where they should be...but in time...that will come.

Azrael.

 

[KarmaRocket]

My plan would be to use the Book 3 at my desk (at home) but to remove the tablet section when i want to watch Netflix, take notes, read, browse the web around the house (ie on the couch, kitchen and so on). I know that the tablet mode isn't the same as the iPad/iPadOS but for watching Netflix, iTunes library content and so on i think it should be fine.

Why not just get an iPad Mini? I'm thinking of getting one just for reading ebooks/comics on the train to work or taking notes during meetings. I'm waiting to see if Apple ever makes an iPad mini pro. If you can wait, you can see what Apple releases for the iPad and what Microsoft will do with their Surface October event. A Surface Pro 8 with AMD Ryzen could be very interesting. Especially if they add some of the upgrades they made to the SPX. SPX update could also happen in October as well and might fit your needs. I'm very interested in the SPX as well, but want to see how well they implement x86-64 support.

Doesn't seem like you really need the power of the SB3. Might be better cheaper options for you that have better battery life as well. If you need the dGPU then the SB3 might be your best option.

 

[Dave245]

Why not just get an iPad Mini? I'm thinking of getting one just for reading ebooks/comics on the train to work or taking notes during meetings. I'm waiting to see if Apple ever makes an iPad mini pro. If you can wait, you can see what Apple releases for the iPad and what Microsoft will do with their Surface October event. A Surface Pro 8 with AMD Ryzen could be very interesting. Especially if they add some of the upgrades they made to the SPX. SPX update could also happen in October as well and might fit your needs. I'm very interested in the SPX as well, but want to see how well they implement x86-64 support.

Doesn't seem like you really need the power of the SB3. Might be better cheaper options for you that have better battery life as well. If you need the dGPU then the SB3 might be your best option.

Apple did already update the iPad Pro not long ago, it wasn’t a very big update tho (new camera LIDAR system and an A12Z chip). I doubt they will update it again this year. The only other thing they did was release a “Magic Keyboard” that costs £349 for the 12.9” version.

It didn’t really seem like a big update to the iPad Pro’s this time around. Then again I’m still using a 2017 iPad Pro so it might be a bigger update than I think. On the flip side to that tho I keep seeing reviews saying that the SB3 isn’t really a big jump this year around and no design changes what so ever.
the only thing I can see Apple doing this year will be in iPadOS and that’s possibly closing the gap further with the iPad Pro as a laptop replace you (last year they added a number of different things, including iPadOS itself). It will be interesting to see what they do this year on the back of releasing this new Magic Keyboard.

 

[Mendota]

Thanks as always for your input. I’ve actually been thinking about that Wacom 2 in 1. You’re correct, it’s pricey and heavy (As far as weight, if I am not using a tablet one handed, I have no issue with the Surface Book or Wacom studio’s weight as I know they would be desk-table top use for me. I wouldn’t be carrying these out of the house).

Been disappointed with Windows ink using the Wacom bamboo pen, and the Surface pen as an art stylus. Of course some of this falls into my being a hobbyist who hasn’t used Corel, Photoshop or Affinity for digital art. In thinking about more cores and a dGPU, I’ve made so many tech purchase mistakes over the attempts to move to Windows (or just replace this aging iMac), I’d rather have more than less at these price points.

I admire what MS has done with hardware. They are on point. I wish they’d release a Surface Studio that was smaller, cheaper and with powerful internals. For all my research and testing, I do not know what would work until after I’ve used it for several weeks.

Well... To throw another curve into it... I just ordered the new Samsung Galaxy Flex... I just couldn't resist (I need an intervention) I do like the Wacom EMR tech and I it is a way to enjoy Wacom tech without the high price of their Two and One. In addition I will use it as my Linux duel boot machine, as Apple makes that difficult now with the T2 chip. This would be a light weight 15 inch solution that would support your art very well. It doesn't have the dedicated GPU, but it does have Wacom.

On anther note, many people may not be aware of the history of Wacom with Windows. When Microsoft first launched their Surface they used Wacom tech and were very happy to do so. It was Wacom that got their nose out of joint and refused to allow the Wacom tech in Windows PC's 10 inches or more, by Microsoft and other OEM's in a bid to force user to buy the Wacom Two and One. Microsoft ever resourceful was not going to allow that to sink them, so that is when they went to nTrig, and gave them the money and support to get them up to speed, and then later they bought nTrig. Once Wacom realized that Microsoft could and would fight back, and all they were doing was losing potential sales from their tech, they relented. I too just can't help but admire the way Microsoft handles their business and stays in the game.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Well... To throw another curve into it... I just ordered the new Samsung Galaxy Flex... I just couldn't resist (I need an intervention) I do like the Wacom EMR tech and I it is a way to enjoy Wacom tech without the high price of their Two and One. In addition I will use it as my Linux duel boot machine, as Apple makes that difficult now with the T2 chip. This would be a light weight 15 inch solution that would support your art very well. It doesn't have the dedicated GPU, but it does have Wacom.

On anther note, many people may not be aware of the history of Wacom with Windows. When Microsoft first launched their Surface they used Wacom tech and were very happy to do so. It was Wacom that got their nose out of joint and refused to allow the Wacom tech in Windows PC's 10 inches or more, by Microsoft and other OEM's in a bid to force user to buy the Wacom Two and One. Microsoft ever resourceful was not going to allow that to sink them, so that is when they went to nTrig, and gave them the money and support to get them up to speed, and then later they bought nTrig. Once Wacom realized that Microsoft could and would fight back, and all they were doing was losing potential sales from their tech, they relented. I too just can't help but admire the way Microsoft handles their business and stays in the game.

Yep I want a Galaxy Flex to replace my wife's Macbook 12" but can't find them in this neck of the woods

Not that she would ever use the S-Pen but I think she would enjoy via tent mode reading her online daily newspaper in bed over clamshell mode and of course hardware wise a considerable upgrade

 

[Mendota]

With the discount I can get for the Surface Book 3 (10%) I have been looking at the following configurations:

13.5” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD = £2,204.10

OR the

15” intel Core i7 with 32GB Ram and 512GB SSD storage = £2,429.10

Would you guys say it’s worth the extra £225 to get the 15” over the 13.5” Surface Book 3? So basically for an extra £225 I can jump from the 13.5” to the 15” Surface Book 3.

I got the 15 with 16 gig ram and 512 SSD. I wanted the larger screen. Since I have a desktop, those specs are more than enough for my use case.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I got the 15 with 16 gig ram and 512 SSD. I wanted the larger screen. Since I have a desktop, those specs are more than enough for my use case.

Thought the 15" 16G Ram only came with 256SSD ?

 

[Dave245]

I got the 15 with 16 gig ram and 512 SSD. I wanted the larger screen. Since I have a desktop, those specs are more than enough for my use case.

you can’t get the 15” with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD, at least not here in the U.K. It seems like if you want more storage they are trying to up sell to the 32GB Ram version and make it more expensive. I think Microsoft should have more configurations (what about a 512 with 8gb ram, 1TB with 16GB Ram).
i do like the nice touch of if you pre-order they throw in the pen (in a colour of your choice).

 

[SteveJUAE]

you can’t get the 15” with 16GB ram and 512GB SSD, at least not here in the U.K. It seems like if you want more storage they are trying to up sell to the 32GB Ram version and make it more expensive. I think Microsoft should have more configurations (what about a 512 with 8gb ram, 1TB with 16GB Ram).
i do like the nice touch of if you pre-order they throw in the pen (in a colour of your choice).

Dave

I checked US site said the same for 512 GB

I also note with the production numbers of SB's to stock every variant will increase costs on all items so don't think this is an Apple type move IMO

 

[Dave245]

 

[SteveJUAE]

Yep just confirm other reports 13" holds it own in that size category and the 15" is not really comparable to latest models in that category and its just a bigger 13" plus a little bit more GPU

Still there is a lot more in life to playing with video's and maybe nice to see these YouTubers being involved in something else for a change and glad to see he noted what's 20 seconds or so LOL for most hobbits more like whats 20 mins LOL, go and get a cup of tea

 

[Dave245]

Yep just confirm other reports 13" holds it own in that size category and the 15" is not really comparable to latest models in that category and its just a bigger 13" plus a little bit more GPU

Still there is a lot more in life to playing with video's and maybe nice to see these YouTubers being involved in something else for a change and glad to see he noted what's 20 seconds or so LOL for most hobbits more like whats 20 mins LOL, go and get a cup of tea

For someone like me it's a none issue, I edit videos on my iMac in Final Cut. Adobe Premier just isn't there and I wouldn't know where to start (when at university we learned video editing on Final Cut Pro.) It would be great if Apple allowed Final Cut Pro to be cross platform and used on Windows machines as well, or if they made an iPad Pro version.

The most that I would push something like the Surface Book 3, would be in playing the odd game and editing photos. Again the only problem I see is that I use Pixelmator Pro, which is Mac/iPad Pro only .