MH01
Suspended
you can't use a iPad pro as a tablet without KB? It works better as a tablet without the KB due to the weight. I like holding my tablet in my hands.
Surface is a LAPTOP & iPad Pro is a TABLET. PERIOD
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you can't use a iPad pro as a tablet without KB? It works better as a tablet without the KB due to the weight. I like holding my tablet in my hands.
s2mikey
Suspended
You beat me to it. As far as Tim Cook is concerned its a laptop replacement...errrr....ummm... A WINDOWS-based laptop replacement that is.
Not an Apple laptop replacement though. Oh no. Hilarous.These are actually great examples of multitasking. Compared to the iPad pro, much more sophisticated indeed..Wrong. That's like saying car brand A convertible and brand B convertible aren't convertibles. Both cars fall into convertible form factor but where they differ are performance and capabilities. For tablet use which is primarily web surfing and media consumption I find the SP4 better and more capable than my Android then iPad tablets due to better multitasking, full desktop Chrome browser with plugins, ability to easily have four or more windowed Chrome browsers opened, play three if not more videos simultaneously vs one, adjustable kickstand, non-distorting front facing speakers at near to max volume, superior keyboard/trackpad/fingerprint cover, flexibility with playing media sources from not only internet streaming but also internal storage, SD card, USB flash or LAN network storage and productivity is unmatched due to professional software availability and ability to output to external large screen display.
SP4 multitasking three simultaneous YouTube, Twitch.tv and movie videos and virtually unlimited windowed Chrome browsers.
TouchWiz/Android multitasking a close 2nd limited to two simultaneous Twitch.tv and movie videos and two mobile Chrome browsers.
Do you notice any type of lag when having so many apps open and simultaneously running?
Couldn't agree more.
So many people tout the surface pro as the best hybrid, yet nobody ever really talks about using it as an actual TABLET.
IMO, it shines as a light laptop with a unique and cool form factor, but questionable if the tablet use is as good.
engineerben
macrumors regular
I suspect the enemy isn't the iPad or the MBA...it's anyone that threatens their ecosystem. That puts Apple in a funny position - they're big enough that MS wants to be there with Office and support for their hardware, but they're also big enough that they threaten Microsoft's hegemony. So they run ads swatting both the iPad and the MBA while promoting software that runs on them.
I like using the Surface Pro as a tablet for consuming media. It has a big, vibrant, touch responsive screen, and it's as good as any other tablet I've used for watching movies, reading emails or PDFs or books or the news, surfing the web, etc.
They're both tablets. The confusion is in the wording.
The iPad Pro is a tablet that can replace what many people USE a laptop for. So can any iPad for that matter. The compromise is that it can't FULLY replace what a laptop or desktop can do since it only runs iOS and has limited support for external accessories. Of course many people either don't need, or necessarily want those things, especially from their tablet.
Meanwhile, the Surface Pro is a tablet that can FULLY replace a laptop or desktop. The compromise is that it can be more complicated to use and operate, has inferior battery life and a smaller touch optimized ecosystem compared to the iOS/iPad platform.
I totally get why some people don't need the power or complexity of a desktop operating system and full blown applications. Or why other people prefer having two or more devices to meet their needs.
Personally, I like having one device that meets all three needs - a tablet for consumption, a desktop for when I want a big monitor and full keyboard and mouse, and a laptop for productivity on the go.
fieldsphotos
macrumors 6502
Oh, I agree that the surface book has its flaws. I chose not to buy one as well and picked up the powerhouse Vaio Z Canvas tablet instead. I was just pointing out the fact that as long as the Book exists, there is no way MS will ever make a dGPU or battery typecover for a Surface Pro. That would cannabilize too many sales.
mi7chy
Suspended
Virtually none on either device.
On the SP4 YouTube and movie playback take advantage of hardware accelerated decoding so with both videos running the CPU clock is near lower range at under 1GHz. Twitch.tv feels more software processed and heavier but even then with all three videos running plus other stuff it's still not hitting max clock and utilization is about half. Core M-6Y30 is very capable so you'll likely run out of 4GB DRAM before you run out of CPU cycles for typical workloads. With everything running I was just under 3GB DRAM utiilized.
Where TouchWiz Android on Galaxy Tab S2 shines is UI with minimal windows borders to maximize use of screen space and can play a game such as Need for Speed Most Wanted fine while watching Twitch.tv and movie. Have yet to try on SP4 Core M3-6Y30 but on a Lenovo Helix 2 with similar Core M-5Y10 it didn't fare as well for this scenario.
One correction. TouchWiz Android can have more than two side by side Chrome browsers.
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Rogifan
macrumors Penryn
Is there a reason you need to have the keyboard attached to the iPP when using it in portrait? I don't have the keyboard but the only time I use my Smart Cover is when I'm traveling, if my iPad is lying on a surface that could scratch it or if I'm using it to prop up the device when watching movies or something. If I'm just lying on the couch or in bed I don't have anything attached to my iPad.
Quite amazing...color me impressed. My wish is that with ios10, we will see a more refined multitasking experience.Virtually none on either device.
On the SP4 YouTube and movie playback take advantage of hardware accelerated decoding so with both videos running the CPU clock is near lower range at under 1GHz. Twitch.tv feels more software processed and heavier but even then with all three videos running plus other stuff it's still not hitting max clock and utilization is about half. Core M-6Y30 is very capable so you'll likely run out of 4GB DRAM before you run out of CPU cycles for typical workloads. With everything running I was just under 3GB DRAM utiilized.
Where TouchWiz Android on Galaxy Tab S2 shines is UI with minimal windows borders to maximize use of screen space and can play a game such as Need for Speed Most Wanted fine while watching Twitch.tv and movie. Have yet to try on SP4 Core M3-6Y30 but on a Lenovo Helix 2 with similar Core M-5Y10 it didn't fare as well for this scenario.
One correction. TouchWiz Android can have more than two side by side Chrome browsers.
I doubt we will ever see to the extent as shown above, but perhaps the ability to run 2 of the same apps side by side, and at least 3 side by side by side apps running simultaneously
Abazigal
Contributor
I believe the iPad will eventually replace the Macbook as well. Tim Cook knows this better any onion, but he obviously can't say it at this stage because it might compromise sales of their Macs, but when the time comes, I have no doubt that Apple will be more than happy to have the iPad cannibalise sales of their Macs.You beat me to it. As far as Tim Cook is concerned its a laptop replacement...errrr....ummm... A WINDOWS-based laptop replacement that is.
I personally don't understand the use case. One can't focus on that many things at once. I remember I used to try to max out space on a 4K screen. I had a game, a movie some browsers and other crap but it just became more of an annoyance and I could only really focus on one thing at a time.
engineerben
macrumors regular
Right - I really like slideover on the IPP but I guess I don't really get the utility of lots of windows open on a 13" screen. Others have mentioned that they'd like to drive multiple monitors with the IPP and then have lots of windows open, but that's not the kind of beast this is.
Now...what should we expect to see in IOS10 on the IPP? I'd bet you'll see the ability to run multiple windows of the same app. The obvious candidate for this is Safari - but how about multiple instances of Word, for example - highlight and drag text from one instance to the other. Or pick your favorite drawing package - grab the objects from one canvas and drag them to the other.
Once you've opened the possibility of multiple windows, the options multiply.
It really depends on an individual basis and it really makes a difference if there is some relationship among what is happening in each of the windows - a game, a browser, and a movie are all quite independent of each other whereas a text document, a spreadsheet, and a presentation (or multiples of each) may be used simultaneously for one purpose.
mi7chy
Suspended
Supposedly iPad and iPP claim to be PC replacements but it's taboo when bringing up PC capabilities. Multiple instances of browser windows, multitasking different software, etc. are very common and basic PC tasks. I also regularly virtualize other OS' and devices. People also forget that some of these devices can output to large screen displays. It's like the reverse gear example on a car. Many might not use it often but no way can they live without it when it's needed.
engineerben
macrumors regular
Interesting example - but look at it this way: there are PC users that run a browser and an email client, and not much more. There are others that may occasionally use a word processor, finance program or spreadsheet, but generally stick with the aforementioned browser and email program. For them, an iPad or IPP does everything they need, in a smaller package, and they may find the experience superior to the more complex PC paradigm.
As for me, I practically never run more than one browser window - although I may run a gazillion tabs in the one window I have open. Not saying I'm "right" or anything, but that's how I use the machine. Others use it differently.
But I do hope Apple allows multiple instances of a particular program to run side-by-side in the IPP - I'd love to touch-drag text from one Word or Pages document to the other.
As for the other tasks you mention - virtual OS instances and multiple external monitors - I suspect for those use cases, a PC or Mac will be your go-to machine for some time to come.
Steve686
macrumors 68040
My iPad Pro is actually going to replace my laptop for everyday non-power crunching use. There are enough projects I can do on the IPP to get by comfortably.
If I need to do serious video editing or the like, I'll just use the iMac at home.
I really do with OSX-Touch or iOS-Pro would be a reality very soon, but for now I can manage.
masotime
macrumors 68030
This is ridiculous. How can anyone consider that mass of windows randomly dispersed and overlapping a refined experience? It is utterly impractical. Why would you want so many random windows all over the place not showing their full content all the time? It would take a very specific use case (sports commentator or stock broker?) to be able to multitask to that extent.
Even as a developer who uses multiple windows simultaneously, I never considered mucking around with multiple windows refined.
Good grief.
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mi7chy
Suspended
Of course some have also claimed there's no need for more than 3.5" display, 1GB DRAM, split view multitasking, precision pen input, etc. And, because some don't know how to utilize it or output to a large screen it's useless for everyone else.
MH01
Suspended
With my iPad Air 2 there is no reason to remove the Smart Cover ever. To be honest with around 5 years of iPad and 7 years of iPhone ownership.....make that any apple product I have ever owned, never have I had a cover that I needed to remove due to design, that being being the difference between well designed cover and a dock.
Just from habits, and user experience of owning apple iPads, the natural response is to fold the Smart Cover behind the iPad if I go portrait. The user experience should not change, the fault is with the smart keyboard cover and its design, apples answer to the kickstand.
Guess we are different . I've never seen the need to remove the Smart Cover off my iPad Air, it provides protection when closed and grip when used in portrait for me.
MH01
Suspended
If Tim can sell you man iPad that weighs more than a laptop with a keyboard cover attached and costs about the same, he is a genius , however he spins it. Cause there is more profit in an iPad than there is in a MacBook . That would make tim very happy.
Robnsn2015
macrumors 6502
Microsoft owns about 20% of my employer and we specialize in Microsoft enterprise software. The upper level managers at my employer all have Surface Pros as their standard computer. I'm just an underling, but I strongly considered getting an Surface Pro, also. However, I noticed that about 80% of the time, people use the Surface Pro the same way they would use any standard Windows laptop. That led me to wonder: why even by a tablet if you are going to use it in the exact same way (software and form factor) as a laptop? You can get a Windows laptop that does 80% of what people I've seen use a Surface Pro for, at about 65% of the Surface Pro's price. That's why I think of the Surface Pro as being more of a laptop than a tablet. Also, I have tried the Surface Pro 3 and 4 in portrait mode, and their aspect ratios don't seem to be made for portrait orientation.
Night Spring
macrumors P6
How do you know this? Any sources?
MH01
Suspended
That's were clever marketing comes into play. I returned my surface for that reason, by the time you get all the accessories to make a tablet a replacement for a laptop, a laptop is a much cleaner solution. Not to mention a tablet that size is awkward in portrait usage.