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Queen6

macrumors G4
Surface Book fully up looking at 138 processes (security & VPN up), RAM utilisation around 2.3Gb. There's is a distinct difference in how Windows 10 & OS X manage memory, neither theses days to me is terribly bad, equally dependant usage one may fair better.

I would now say for my usage on OS X 16Gb RAM is now mandatory for my 13" class notebook assuming a new purchase, while 8Gb remains to be adequate under W10, not going to get into the better or worse as too many permutations rather more an observation.

For my use now Windows 10 is now the more stable by far, nor do I prescribe that Windows slows/fails by default. I always do clean instals or more recently MS hardware and have had very little if any issue with Windows since W7 SP3

My own opinion of Windows 10S is that it's looks good for usage in controlled conditions and for newcomers. For those in the know Windows 10 Pro is the clear winner. Personally I always manage the "autostart's " in both OS's as the vast majority simply don't need to fire up with the OS

Process Explorer & Autoruns are great free utilities for analysis a Windows base system, as with all such apps should be used prudently with a level of knowledge. Both are available from Microsoft Technet - Sysinternals. Also worth noting Process Explorer can if set up can send active process hashes & submit unknown Executables to VirusTotal allowing you the benefit of 60 Anti Virus/Malware engines. TaskExplorer from Objective-See performs similarly for OS X

Q-6

Agree.. I've had one BSOD on my X1C and that was my fault as I made an error on a regedit change I applied. Other than that, no issues whatsoever.

10S on the SL is very efficient. My machine has been on for 2 days with numerous programs opened and closed and I have to say, it does a stellar job managing the resources..

Compare that to a MacBook and it's not even close.....

View attachment 707057



View attachment 707058

I have not done my usual yet and put Linux on as a dual boot but will do so later today. I am interested in seeing how the SL behaves with Linux.
 

raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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After using 10S for a few days I actually think most could easily get by with it.. By most I mean home users, students and office task type users..

MS could really help themselves and get people to stick with 10S with a few minor tweaks and store apps. They really need to add Chrome and give the ability to change the search engine. Those would be nice and I think more would consider sticking with 10S if those 2 things were implemented.

I personally don't mind Edge and Bing is fine but I'd prefer Chrome and Google for search..

Anyone who needs downloadable programs or more OS features would obviously need to take the free upgrade to Win 10 Pro but so far 10S has done everything I've asked it to do. Of course I know it's limitations and for me at least, its just a really cool and well built secondary machine...

I will eventually take the Pro upgrade just to get the license but so far I am not really missing any of the Pro features for what I am using this machine for..
 

raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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So........................ I lasted about 3 days on 10S! LOL

I ran into an issue earlier where I needed admin PowerShell access so to Win 10 Pro I went. The upgrade took all of about 2 minutes and a reboot..

I did create a factory image of 10S ( https://www.microsoft.com/surface/e...ervice-and-recovery/downloadablerecoveryimage ) so I can go back to 10S later if I want..

Edit:

Also one minor bump on 10S with a Kodak Verite 65 Plus printer.. Windows 10S would not recognize it when I attempted to connect wirelessly... I was able to snag the driver from my X1C and load the driver through Device Manager but since 10S prevents external installs, that was my only option..

Just a heads up for those who might have an oddball printer.. My Brother Laser and HP DeskJet were both detected and installed just fine on 10S but the Kodak was a no-no..
 
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SteveJUAE

macrumors 601
Aug 14, 2015
4,412
4,620
Land of Smiles
That brings up a good point, I just don't think these kinds of laptops are for me. Too much compromise for not much gain IMO. I also don't get the point of the MacBook though.
The rMB is all about footprint and style

The SL is all about ease of use and style with greater potential of W10 Pro, yet maintaining mobility and simplicity
[doublepost=1499124637][/doublepost]
One thing I never understood is why windows laptops always end up with weaker integrated GPU's. The base model has the 620, which is actually a decent bit slower than the standard 640 in the nTB MBP. You only get it in the Surface Laptop if you step up to the i7. The SSD also seems to be quite a bit slower, so I'm not really sure how it's on par with the nTB MBP.

It's part of Apple cunning plan when you only make 3 laptops at high prices you need to ensure there are certain bragging rights even if they are niche and only a small user group

Windows laptops are far more diversified

SL/SP/13"MBP/rMB are not really aimed at graphic intensive apps and most dailies do not need them
 
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raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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Rolled back to 10S today to test it out as many were saying the upgrade to Win 10 Pro was a one way upgrade... That is false!

I used the USB recovery stick I made and the reset / downgrade took a whopping 15 minutes from booting to the USB to Win 10S freshly installed and rocking.
 

raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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I actually like the new Opera browser for Windows 10 with its battery saver feature on my Surface Pro. It seems to do as well as Edge. It also comes with built in Ad-blocker and free VPN as well, but I haven't tried the VPN at all.

Windows 10S blocks all external installs. The only things that can be installed are what's in the app store. It's Edge only at the moment..
 

SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
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Highlands Ranch, CO
Windows 10S blocks all external installs. The only things that can be installed are what's in the app store. It's Edge only at the moment..

Ah, I have not had any experience with 10s. But for some reason I had tout you had upgraded to Pro. The App store is a bit limited ATM, though the manager at my local store swears Microsoft is reaching out to 1000's of developers to get them to develop for the platform. We shall see huh? :)
 

raqball

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I did go to Pro and then yesterday I rolled back. With Pro you can install anything you want, as normal, so my previous comments were in relation to using the SL with 10S...
 

SDColorado

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I did go to Pro and then yesterday I rolled back. With Pro you can install anything you want, as normal, so my previous comments were in relation to using the SL with 10S...

Gotcha. I thought I had saw where you posted you went Pro, missed where you mentioned you had rolled back, thus my confusion. My bad :)
 
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raqball

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No worries.. These threads get garbled sometimes and become hard to follow..

In my comparison between 10 Pro and 10S I can say that 10S does use much less in the resources department which is kind of expected all things considered. Office is in the Store but it's only available to download if you are on 10S. If you upgrade to Pro then the store version of office stays in tact.

Another tip for anyone with the machine or thinking about getting the machine is how to access the BIOS. To access the BIOS on the SL you press F6 (volume up on the KB) at boot and you come to a very, very, very limited BIOS..
 
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sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,287
13,020
where hip is spoken
Windows 10S blocks all external installs. The only things that can be installed are what's in the app store. It's Edge only at the moment..
So Windows 10S is essentially Windows RT.
I just gave away my Surface 2 but I can get another fully equipped one for $100... poor-man's Surface Laptop!
rotflmao.gif


I really don't understand Microsoft's logic in this. A premium ultrabook with a locked down/limited OS? Offer a Surface Laptop with Win10S for $300 cheaper, and one with full Win10 at the current price makes more sense to me.
 

raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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So Windows 10S is essentially Windows RT.
I just gave away my Surface 2 but I can get another fully equipped one for $100... poor-man's Surface Laptop! View attachment 707609

I really don't understand Microsoft's logic in this. A premium ultrabook with a locked down/limited OS? Offer a Surface Laptop with Win10S for $300 cheaper, and one with full Win10 at the current price makes more sense to me.

No it's not even close to RT.. It's full Windows 10 but it only allows store app installs...

The upgrade to Pro, if you want it, is free and it also comes with a year of Office Personal included.

To me, the reason for 10S is it's MUCH more secure, it manages resources better and most users do not need Pro features.. I firmly believe that most home users, students and office type users will get by just fine on 10S..

RT -v 10S: (a few major differences)

--Windows 10S can run any program from the Store (Win32 & UWP)
--Windows RT can only run Modern UI apps
--Windows RT can't join a domain
 
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SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
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Highlands Ranch, CO
You would almost think it would be the flip though where the Surface Pro came with 10s and a free upgrade and the laptop with full Pro. But I guess the Pro version puts the Pro in Surface Pro
 

raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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You would almost think it would be the flip though where the Surface Pro came with 10s and a free upgrade and the laptop with full Pro. But I guess the Pro version puts the Pro in Surface Pro

I am a bit surprised they didn't slap 10S on the new SP but given the Pro naming I think you are correct.. 10S is not bad at all and like I said, I think it's well suited for the SL.. Home users, students and office users won't miss a beat for the most part..

My issues with 10S are minor. MS needs to add Chrome to the store and they need to let people change the search engine from Bing to something else. They also need to push, pull or pay handsomely for developers to make more store apps.

For the machines intended usage and targeted user market 10S is fine I think.. For those whos needs it does not meet then 10 Pro is free, one click and 2 minutes away...
 

sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,287
13,020
where hip is spoken
No it's not even close to RT.. It's full Windows 10 but it only allows store app installs...

The upgrade to Pro, if you want it, is free and it also comes with a year of Office Personal included.

To me, the reason for 10S is it's MUCH more secure, it manages resources better and most users do not need Pro features.. I firmly believe that most home users, students and office type users will get by just fine on 10S..

RT -v 10S: (a few major differences)

--Windows 10S can run any program from the Store (Win32 & UWP)
--Windows RT can only run Modern UI apps
--Windows RT can't join a domain
The key word was "essentially". :) BTW, Windows RT CAN run desktop apps but need to be signed.
 

raqball

macrumors 68020
Sep 11, 2016
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The key word was "essentially". :) BTW, Windows RT CAN run desktop apps but need to be signed.

Nope... Not even "essentially" the same.. I'd suggest you do a little research into 10S before convincing yourself they are similar as they are not even close.. I used RT and I am now using 10S.. Night and day different.

As far as RT running desktop apps that's for geeks and not the general public.. I believe you have to compile the signed program correct? Most home users, students and office type users that the SL is aimed at are not going to be interested in doing that.. Heck most geeks could not even get some to work correctly..

I could not function on RT just like most which is why it suffered a rather fast death at the hands of MS.. It was a terrible OS.. 10S is actually pretty sweet and can run UWP and Win 32 apps right out of the box...

My .02

Edit to add:

I do think MS needs to push hard for developers to move their programs over. Maybe they can sweeten the financial pot to entice developers to do so.. Getting more programs in the Store is really the only way that many will stay on 10S, long term.
 
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sracer

macrumors G4
Apr 9, 2010
10,287
13,020
where hip is spoken
Nope... Not even "essentially" the same.. I'd suggest you do a little research into 10S before convincing yourself they are similar as they are not even close.. I used RT and I am now using 10S.. Night and day different.

As far as RT running desktop apps that's for geeks and not the general public.. I believe you have to compile the signed program correct? Most home users, students and office type users that the SL is aimed at are not going to be interested in doing that.. Heck most geeks could not even get some to work correctly..

I could not function on RT just like most which is why it suffered a rather fast death at the hands of MS.. It was a terrible OS.. 10S is actually pretty sweet and can run UWP and Win 32 apps right out of the box...

My .02

Edit to add:

I do think MS needs to push hard for developers to move their programs over. Maybe they can sweeten the financial pot to entice developers to do so.. Getting more programs in the Store is really the only way that many will stay on 10S, long term.
No worries. I've done enough research on 10S. My comments regarding 10S vs Windows RT are from Microsoft's perspective and what they're trying to do with 10S rather than a technical equality. Microsoft is once again "cheaping out" on the development of a limited function version of Windows that is supposed to be more secure and more of an ecosystem platform.

Windows RT still had all of the enterprise subsystem components in it that x86 Windows has. That was a mistake. Windows 10S is a repetition of that mistake. But again, it is more of a marketing perspective than a technical one.
 

SDColorado

macrumors 601
Nov 6, 2011
4,360
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Highlands Ranch, CO
I am a bit surprised they didn't slap 10S on the new SP but given the Pro naming I think you are correct.. 10S is not bad at all and like I said, I think it's well suited for the SL.. Home users, students and office users won't miss a beat for the most part..

My issues with 10S are minor. MS needs to add Chrome to the store and they need to let people change the search engine from Bing to something else. They also need to push, pull or pay handsomely for developers to make more store apps.

For the machines intended usage and targeted user market 10S is fine I think.. For those whos needs it does not meet then 10 Pro is free, one click and 2 minutes away...

From what the store manager told me, Microsoft is really motivated to grow the store and add more apps. He claims that they really are watching and paying attention to the store feedback and to keep submitting requests and ideas. I have submitted a few, I guess we will see what comes of it.

10S sounds like it would have been at home on the more tablet oriented SP. Surprised it wasn’t even an option. What comes on the Surface Book?
 
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raqball

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Sep 11, 2016
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From what the store manager told me, Microsoft is really motivated to grow the store and add more apps. He claims that they really are watching and paying attention to the store feedback and to keep submitting requests and ideas. I have submitted a few, I guess we will see what comes of it.

10S sounds like it would have been at home on the more tablet oriented SP. Surprised it wasn’t even an option. What comes on the Surface Book?

I bet we start to see 10S on more and more of the budget machines. The SL is probably the only high end laptop we'll see it on. MS put it there I think to showcase it..

I believe the SB comes with 10 Pro.. @Queen6 has one so maybe he can respond.
 

Queen6

macrumors G4
I bet we start to see 10S on more and more of the budget machines. The SL is probably the only high end laptop we'll see it on. MS put it there I think to showcase it..

I believe the SB comes with 10 Pro.. @Queen6 has one so maybe he can respond.

Confirmed Surface Book comes with W10 Pro out the box. Personally I would just upgrade from W10 S to W10 Pro, same as I have just done with my new Huawei MateBook X. For many average users W10S will make a lot of sense, I can see this same may very well be applied to controlled environments, for us freelancers W10 Pro remains the weapon of choice.

Q-6
 
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zhenya

macrumors 604
Jan 6, 2005
6,929
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I wonder if the real reason for the existence of 10S is so Microsoft can migrate that to the free version in the future. They have long given away Windows licensing very cheaply to OEM's, but they've also experimented with cut-down free versions for budget machines. Windows S could occupy this niche in the future which could make it marginally easier for Microsoft to go back to charging for Windows 10 which is going to be a tough sell after they gave it away to essentially the whole world.
 
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