Surface Laptop reviews

[raqball]

I went with the MBA because of MacOS, one more USB port, and the price on a MBA from Best Buy was half the cost of the SL.

Valid reasons if it meets your needs except what I put in bold.. You got a comparably spec'd MBA for $500-$600???

My issue with the MBA has always been the garbage screen.. No way I could deal with it anymore when everything I have is HD.. TV, phone, PC's, tablet ect.. Going from having everything you look at being in HD to the MBA screen is brutal..

 

[skaertus]

I went with the MBA because of MacOS, one more USB port, and the price on a MBA from Best Buy was half the cost of the SL.

Which model did you take?

I saw the 11" MBA on BestBuy for USD 699. It seems toc me that the latest 13" model is selling for USD 799, with a 128 GB SSD.

I would not buy a MBA. I am not willing to accept a lesser machine just for having macOS. If I am buying a Mac, I am going with one of the latest models.

The MBA has a TN 1440x900 screen which is a deal breaker for me. And it is not one of the lightest models around either (but still acceptable weight).

It is aging, but still a good machine if you don't mind not having the latest and greatest. And it has great battery life which cannot be matched by thinner models with ultra high-res super bright screens.

 

[skaertus]

Valid reasons if it meets your needs except what I put in bold.. You got a comparably spec'd MBA for $500-$600???

My issue with the MBA has always been the garbage screen.. No way I could deal with it anymore when everything I have is HD.. TV, phone, PC's, tablet ect.. Going from having everything you look at being in HD to the MBA screen is brutal..

Totally agreed.

 

[raqball]

If someone is able to get the MS student discount then the SL become much more attractive..

$899 for the i5 / 4 / 128
$1169 for the i5 / 8 / 256

If the 13" MBA is $799 then to me the SL is the obvious choice for a few $$ more you get better specs, better screen ect. If someone is locked onto the Mac eco system or they don't want to use Windows then they don't really have many options. Spend an arm and a leg for the Pro which is basically an overpriced fashion statement with a terrible KB or get the Air with outdated specs and an abysmal screen.. The rMB might be an option but it's priced through the roof as well...

Just based off the MBA screen alone, there is no way, at any price, that I'd buy one..

 

[skaertus]

If someone is able to get the MS student discount then the SL become much more attractive..

$899 for the i5 / 4 / 128
$1169 for the i5 / 8 / 256

If the 13" MBA is $799 then to me the SL is the obvious choice for a few $$ more you get better specs, better screen ect. If someone is locked onto the Mac eco system or they don't want to use Windows then they don't really have many options. Spend an arm and a leg for the Pro which is basically an overpriced fashion statement with a terrible KB or get the Air with outdated specs and an abysmal screen.. The rMB might be an option but it's priced through the roof as well...

Just based off the screen alone, there is no way, at any price, that I'd buy one..

The MBA is the "value" laptop made by Apple. Not worth it at USD 999. However, for USD 799, it might be a decent choice. There are not many good laptops that sell for this price. You can get better screens and specs, but the build quality is usually not that good at these prices. The MBA is old and outdated, but well-built and rock solid.

As for the Pros, they are expensive. But you also get very good machines. You can have a Windows machine for less, but, once you put everything in, the prices are not that far away. The Mac is still overpriced, but not absurdly so. A Surface Pro with 8GB and the keyboard will cost you north of USD 1,400, almost the same price as the Non-touchbar MacBook Pro, which has a faster processor and more USB ports. Windows machines can be expensive as well.

 

[zhenya]

The problem with all of the Microsoft hardware is that while the entry-level pricing is attractive, if you want the higher end configurations it's probably not available in quite the configuration you want, and it's insanely expensive. ie. with the Surface Laptop, if you want 16GB of RAM, you have to get the i7 (not ideal for battery life), and the SSD maxes out at 512GB - but the price balloons to $2200! The Surface Book is even worse - at i7/16GB/1TB (and without the dedicated GPU) it runs $2999! A maxed-out Thinkpad X1 Carbon - pretty much considered one of the top PC laptops on the market right now runs about $2400 - and is often available for hundreds less than that. I realize Microsoft thinks they are trying to be Apple in this pricing model, but Apple doesn't have the direct competition Microsoft does. And PC laptops have improved considerably since the Surface line was launched. While Microsoft drags their feet on updating these machines.

 

[raqball]

My opinion might wander a bit from most.. I don't really see the need for 16GB of RAM in an ultrabook. If 16GB of RAM is needed then a work force type laptop or a desktop might be the better option. I do have 16GB in my X1C but seriously doubt I'll ever push the need for it in an ultrabook..

I think the sweet spot for an untrabook is the i5 / 8 / 256 (or 512) options. At those specs, the SL is the better bargain -v- the MBP

 

[zhenya]

When I buy a computer I expect it to have a lifespan of 5-10 years. 16GB might not make much difference right now, but it will greatly extend the life of the machine in the long run. And from Lenovo going from 8GB to 16GB is usually around $150. On sale it's often $100. No brainer IMO.

 

[raqball]

These new computers are non-repairable and disposable. They will probably be in a landfill long before they reach being outdated...

 

[skaertus]

When I buy a computer I expect it to have a lifespan of 5-10 years. 16GB might not make much difference right now, but it will greatly extend the life of the machine in the long run. And from Lenovo going from 8GB to 16GB is usually around $150. On sale it's often $100. No brainer IMO.

I don't. I buy something I will use for the next 2-3 years. Then I buy another one.

I always buy laptops and I do not intend to use it for 5 or 10 years. In 3 years, even if the specs are still good, and the laptop can deliver good performance, there will be models which are thinner, lighter, more silent, with better screens, and more battery life. I do not look at good performance alone. For me, it is a whole package, and performance is less and less important for me (of course it has to be fast, but I am currently using only tasks that do not require a lot from the processor or the video card).

 

[raqball]

I don't. I buy something I will use for the next 2-3 years. Then I buy another one.

I always buy laptops and I do not intend to use it for 5 or 10 years. In 3 years, even if the specs are still good, and the laptop can deliver good performance, there will be models which are thinner, lighter, more silent, with better screens, and more battery life. I do not look at good performance alone. For me, it is a whole package, and performance is less and less important for me (of course it has to be fast, but I am currently using only tasks that do not require a lot from the processor or the video card).

I figure 2-3 years for a PC as well. Phones are 2-years tops..

 

[zhenya]

I don't. I buy something I will use for the next 2-3 years. Then I buy another one.

I always buy laptops and I do not intend to use it for 5 or 10 years. In 3 years, even if the specs are still good, and the laptop can deliver good performance, there will be models which are thinner, lighter, more silent, with better screens, and more battery life. I do not look at good performance alone. For me, it is a whole package, and performance is less and less important for me (of course it has to be fast, but I am currently using only tasks that do not require a lot from the processor or the video card).

I personally usually have a new machine within 3 years time, but at our office they are continually handed down, and at home they go to my wife/kids/other family. Every time I have tried to save a few hundred dollars on the initial spec it has greatly hindered the useful life of the device later on.

I also don't agree that ultrabooks can't benefit from additional ram today. There are many kinds of workflows that benefit from additional RAM and fast SSD's while not requiring ultra-high-end CPU's.

 

[skaertus]

My opinion might wander a bit from most.. I don't really see the need for 16GB of RAM in an ultrabook. If 16GB of RAM is needed then a work force type laptop or a desktop might be the better option. I do have 16GB in my X1C but seriously doubt I'll ever push the need for it in an ultrabook..

I think the sweet spot for an untrabook is the i5 / 8 / 256 (or 512) options. At those specs, the SL is the better bargain -v- the MBP

It may be. But the MBP is not exactly an ultrabook. The 13" MBPs (standard models) use the Core i5-7360U 2.3 GHz and the Core i5-7267U 3.1 GHz. The i5-7360U is a low-power, 15W, processor, but the i5-7267 is a medium-power, 28W processor, and thus a faster model.

The Surface Laptop uses the i5-7200U 2.5 GHz and the i7-7660U 2.5 GHz, both of which are 15W processors, proper for ultrabooks.

 

[macgeek18]

Valid reasons if it meets your needs except what I put in bold.. You got a comparably spec'd MBA for $500-$600???

My issue with the MBA has always been the garbage screen.. No way I could deal with it anymore when everything I have is HD.. TV, phone, PC's, tablet ect.. Going from having everything you look at being in HD to the MBA screen is brutal..

[doublepost=1500841910][/doublepost]

Which model did you take?

I saw the 11" MBA on BestBuy for USD 699. It seems toc me that the latest 13" model is selling for USD 799, with a 128 GB SSD.

I would not buy a MBA. I am not willing to accept a lesser machine just for having macOS. If I am buying a Mac, I am going with one of the latest models.

The MBA has a TN 1440x900 screen which is a deal breaker for me. And it is not one of the lightest models around either (but still acceptable weight).

It is aging, but still a good machine if you don't mind not having the latest and greatest. And it has great battery life which cannot be matched by thinner models with ultra high-res super bright screens.

Base model. 13.3 1.6 i5/8GB/128GB Bought new for $650
I love 1440x900. My 2012 MBP had only 1280x800. I have been using high res screens in notebooks and have set them 1440x900. My eyesight is poor though. And I don't always want to have to wear my glasses for reading just for quick things like this post. It's all about the needs of the user. I have 2 high end desktops at home and the iPP 12.9. I don't need anything more than the air and it fits my needs well.

 

[skaertus]

[doublepost=1500841910][/doublepost]

Base model. 13.3 1.6 i5/8GB/128GB Bought new for $650
I love 1440x900. My 2012 MBP had only 1280x800. I have been using high res screens in notebooks and have set them 1440x900. My eyesight is poor though. And I don't always want to have to wear my glasses for reading just for quick things like this post. It's all about the needs of the user. I have 2 high end desktops at home and the iPP 12.9. I don't need anything more than the air and it fits my needs well.

I wish I didn't care for high resolution screens. I would get laptops much cheaper and with much more battery life!

 

[Queen6]

Valid reasons if it meets your needs except what I put in bold.. You got a comparably spec'd MBA for $500-$600???

My issue with the MBA has always been the garbage screen.. No way I could deal with it anymore when everything I have is HD.. TV, phone, PC's, tablet ect.. Going from having everything you look at being in HD to the MBA screen is brutal..

Always been the stumbling block for me with the Air, with Apple using a $2 display panel just to prevent sales of the Air eating into the MBP & MB. Otherwise a very solid notebook, thin, light, great battery life and ports that make sense in the real world...

Q-6

 

[skaertus]

Always been the stumbling block for me with the Air, with Apple using a $2 display panel just to prevent sales of the Air eating into the MBP & MB. Otherwise a very solid notebook, thin, light, great battery life and ports that make sense in the real world...

Q-6

Exactly. The MacBook Air is a fine machine, it is still thin and light, has useful USB-A ports, and is cheaper than the rest.

Apple could have upgraded it. Put an IPS display with a higher resolution. Shaved off some of the screen bezel. Improve it more than completely redesign it.

But of course Apple won't do that. Apple is purist, and won't do what everybody else is doing.

The "improved" MacBook Air is the non-touchbar MacBook Pro. They both have the same weight and use the same series of Intel processors (15W, low voltage). The non-touchbar Pro has more battery life than the touchbar version, as its battery is larger, it has a slower processor with lower voltage, and it lacks the touchbar. The screen probably consumes much more energy than the one in the Air, but that's the price you pay for having a better display. Oh, that and an additional USD 300.

 

[raqball]

The MBA was at one point a very good machine but Apple has decided to let it stagnate and fall way behind. It's still a decent option if someone who needs MacOS can deal with the sub-par screen and does not mind having older specs.. I suppose Apple needs to have a cheaper machine but they really should update the Air a little.. Maybe a 1080p screen and slightly better specs?

 

[zhenya]

The MBA was at one point a very good machine but Apple has decided to let it stagnate and fall way behind. It's still a decent option if someone who needs MacOS can deal with the sub-par screen and does not mind having older specs.. I suppose Apple needs to have a cheaper machine but they really should update the Air a little.. Maybe a 1080p screen and slightly better specs?

There is only $300 of difference between the starting prices of the MBA and the new MBP. The new entry level MBP IS the updated Air. I'm not sure why this isn't more obvious?

 

[raqball]

Most don't consider a $1500 machine to be a MBA.. The MBA was always aimed at the cheaper crowd / college students on a budget ect... For $1500 there are MUCH better options out there than the MBP..

Edit that... I forgot Apple introduced the 128GB version of the MBP for $1300.. Still, many looking for a cheaper MacOS device in the past got the 11" MBA and there is a large price difference between what it was priced at and the 128 GB MBP..

The 13" MBA is still priced quite a bit less than the 13" MBP. The $300 difference on a $1000 machine is 30%.. In other words, if you want the MBP you need to pay 30% more to get it.. That's a pretty high percentage for many on a budget to swallow..

 

[Queen6]

Exactly. The MacBook Air is a fine machine, it is still thin and light, has useful USB-A ports, and is cheaper than the rest.

Apple could have upgraded it. Put an IPS display with a higher resolution. Shaved off some of the screen bezel. Improve it more than completely redesign it.

But of course Apple won't do that. Apple is purist, and won't do what everybody else is doing.

The "improved" MacBook Air is the non-touchbar MacBook Pro. They both have the same weight and use the same series of Intel processors (15W, low voltage). The non-touchbar Pro has more battery life than the touchbar version, as its battery is larger, it has a slower processor with lower voltage, and it lacks the touchbar. The screen probably consumes much more energy than the one in the Air, but that's the price you pay for having a better display. Oh, that and an additional USD 300.

Well Apple can do what it wants, equally I am now no longer a professional user of Apple`s hardware thx to pandering to the Starbucks crowd. Steve Jobs once said Apple would never produce garbage, IMHO Apple has never been closer than the new MBP.

Personally I don't know anyone who is using or considering a new MBP for professorial use, either holding onto the older design or switching to more appropriate Windows based hardware. Few surprises here that the professional usage of the platform is now so small...

Q-6
[doublepost=1500997602][/doublepost]

The MBA was at one point a very good machine but Apple has decided to let it stagnate and fall way behind. It's still a decent option if someone who needs MacOS can deal with the sub-par screen and does not mind having older specs.. I suppose Apple needs to have a cheaper machine but they really should update the Air a little.. Maybe a 1080p screen and slightly better specs?

Very simple Apple is both cheap & greedy and certainly doesn't deserve my $$$$

Q-6

 

[raqball]

My main issue with Apple and why I've moved completely away (PC, Phone, Apple TV) is the penny pinching, high price, garbage they are currently producing.

The new Macbooks are aimed at the fashion conscious - Starbucks crowd, the iPhone with all its emoji's and gimmicks is aimed at the teenage crowd and Apple TV is fast becoming and overpriced iTunes box.

I still do not understand Apple's obsession with thin and light. Was the 2015 MBP so large and heavy that Apple needed to remove ports, features and slap a crappy KB in it to achieve thinner and lighter? I can't ever recall hearing people complain that the 2015 MBP was large and heavy.

There are a few areas where the MBP excels. SSD speeds and MacOS are really all that's left to say about them in a positive manner. MacOS is getting less and less attractive though as Windows 10 has caught up to it or surpassed it in terms of stability and usage.

The only reason I can see left for anyone to buy a Mac is if they are hard locked into the MacOS ecosystem via high priced apps and programs.

I spent about $700 to rid myself of Apple's eco system and get the programs and apps I need for Windows / Android. It was a one-time hit but now I have eco system freedom and can choose whatever I want. If I ever go back to Mac my previously purchased items will still be there but I am no longer locked to them.

 

[Queen6]

Completely agree, being a professional user of the Mac for 20+ Once I would have unequivocally recommended the Mac today just no. Between the hardware and software Apple is as close to producing garbage as it ever has been. No wonder there are so few professionals on the platform and now one more less...

I waited patiently for the new MBP only to be disappointed by a product solely designed to boost margin and have little or no consideration for the customer. These days when I visit the client or their contractors, staff remain to be impressed by my top of the line hardware, equally none is Apple, nor will I recommend...

I still want to keep one Mac in my professorial lineup, and really wanted to give the 15" MBP a shot, the cost is not an issue, however the keyboard is just a joke. It's like "your holding it wrong" all over again, it's so sad it's almost funny. Same as my Retina MacBook the keyboard is simply garbage, difference is i'am no longer willing to blindly defend a company that has more interest in the doorhandles of it's new HQ than it's customers of which it simply views as cash cows...

Q-6

My main issue with Apple and why I've moved completely away (PC, Phone, Apple TV) is the penny pinching, high price, garbage they are currently producing.

The new Macbooks are aimed at the fashion conscious - Starbucks crowd, the iPhone with all its emoji's and gimmicks is aimed at the teenage crowd and Apple TV is fast becoming and overpriced iTunes box.

I still do not understand Apple's obsession with thin and light. Was the 2015 MBP so large and heavy that Apple needed to remove ports, features and slap a crappy KB in it to achieve thinner and lighter? I can't ever recall hearing people complain that the 2015 MBP was large and heavy.

There are a few areas where the MBP excels. SSD speeds and MacOS are really all that's left to say about them in a positive manner. MacOS is getting less and less attractive though as Windows 10 has caught up to it or surpassed it in terms of stability and usage.

The only reason I can see left for anyone to buy a Mac is if they are hard locked into the MacOS ecosystem via high priced apps and programs.

I spent about $700 to rid myself of Apple's eco system and get the programs and apps I need for Windows / Android. It was a one-time hit but now I have eco system freedom and can choose whatever I want. If I ever go back to Mac my previously purchased items will still be there but I am no longer locked to them.

 

[skaertus]

Most don't consider a $1500 machine to be a MBA.. The MBA was always aimed at the cheaper crowd / college students on a budget ect... For $1500 there are MUCH better options out there than the MBP..

Edit that... I forgot Apple introduced the 128GB version of the MBP for $1300.. Still, many looking for a cheaper MacOS device in the past got the 11" MBA and there is a large price difference between what it was priced at and the 128 GB MBP..

The 13" MBA is still priced quite a bit less than the 13" MBP. The $300 difference on a $1000 machine is 30%.. In other words, if you want the MBP you need to pay 30% more to get it.. That's a pretty high percentage for many on a budget to swallow..

In fact, the MBA was introduced in 2008 with a price tag of USD 1,800 for the cheapest model (which had a 4,200 RPM HD). It only became more affordable when a redesigned version (the current design) was introduced in 2011. And the price has been dropping since then.

So, it's not that the MBA has always been the cheapest model. Apple introduces its products at a high price and they become cheaper as time goes by. If you want the best and latest, you have to pay a lot. If you want the cheapest, you have to swallow old tech.

 

[raqball]

In fact, the MBA was introduced in 2008 with a price tag of USD 1,800 for the cheapest model (which had a 4,200 RPM HD). It only became more affordable when a redesigned version (the current design) was introduced in 2011. And the price has been dropping since then.

So, it's not that the MBA has always been the cheapest model. Apple introduces its products at a high price and they become cheaper as time goes by. If you want the best and latest, you have to pay a lot. If you want the cheapest, you have to swallow old tech.

Except you can't really use MBA launch prices as a good indicator. No doubt the MBA pushed the market and they invented the ultrabook. Those days are long gone and the MBA is now easily, and has been for years now, considered their budget machine.

Budget machines are fine but stop the penny pinching and give it a better screen and slightly updated specs and form factor. These could easily be done with Apple still making a profit from them.