Surface Pro shows what Macbook could have been, what new Macs need?

[boltjames]

Great videos, thanks for posting.

I was shocked to learn that in detached tablet mode the SB only has 3 hours of battery life and then when re-docked cannot pull additional power from the larger battery in the lower keyboard portion.

I use my iPad mostly for media on long duration flights and even if I was inclined, as a Windows loyalist, to give Microsoft hardware a shot over Apple this would be a dealbreaker.

A 3 hour tablet has extremely limited use. I really don't know what they are thinking there. This is not an iPad replacement by any stretch.

BJ

 

[Queen6]

Great videos, thanks for posting.

I was shocked to learn that in detached tablet mode the SB only has 3 hours of battery life and then when re-docked cannot pull additional power from the larger battery in the lower keyboard portion.

I use my iPad mostly for media on long duration flights and even if I was inclined, as a Windows loyalist, to give Microsoft hardware a shot over Apple this would be a dealbreaker.

A 3 hour tablet has extremely limited use. I really don't know what they are thinking there. This is not an iPad replacement by any stretch.

BJ

I don't believe it`s meant to be. It adds utility/functionality over the typical Notebook model for those that need it.

Q-6

 

[maflynn]

I popped into my local Microsoft store and checked out the Surface Book.
I was impressed with the screen, very rich, great display. The build quality seemed to be high - at least in handling it. Only through usage will it become evident if its high quality or not.
It felt a bit heavy, especially if you detach the display, flip it around and use it as a tablet. Taking it completely off the keyboard alleviates this a bit but its still a bit heavy. I'd probably never use it as a tablet but that's just me.
The keyboard was great to use.

Overall its a really nice laptop, is it a 2,000 dollar nice laptop. I don't know. That is the big question.

 

[duervo]

I just watched the fstoppers Youtube videos, there four of them about the Surface Pro and Book and although he did not compare the 13" MBP he did the quad core 15" which he also shows beating the Surface Book duo core

The last video had me actually lol'ing, even though he added an intro explaining his mistake where he assumed the SB had a quad core CPU.

There are more people than I expected in the "tech blogosphere" that have screwed up these reviews by simply making assumptions and/or not doing valid comparisons for one reason or another. Makes me laugh a bit, but at the same time it is kind of sad, because there are people that will base their purchasing decisions on these "reviews".

If there are any lessons to be learned from this, it's at least these:

- If you are a reviewer, pay more attention to what you are reviewing, and put more thought into how to do a fair and valid comparison.
- If you are a viewer, you would do best by checking out the reviews with at least some level of scepticism.

 

[Queen6]

Overall its a really nice laptop, is it a 2,000 dollar nice laptop. I don't know. That is the big question.

Same range as Apple; as long as the quality is present I personally have no issue, especially on the software side as that is what tends in general of getting in the way of things done or burning needless hours attempting to fix. Microsoft is clearly making concerted efforts to significantly improve the reliability of Windows, as for Apple I am no longer sure the same applies.


Q-6

 

[SteveJUAE]

I popped into my local Microsoft store and checked out the Surface Book.
I was impressed with the screen, very rich, great display. The build quality seemed to be high - at least in handling it. Only through usage will it become evident if its high quality or not.
It felt a bit heavy, especially if you detach the display, flip it around and use it as a tablet. Taking it completely off the keyboard alleviates this a bit but its still a bit heavy. I'd probably never use it as a tablet but that's just me.
The keyboard was great to use.

Overall its a really nice laptop, is it a 2,000 dollar nice laptop. I don't know. That is the big question.

I know you have reservations on the hinge durability but at least that's a mechanical issue opposed to an electronic one and I think its not so much it will fail but more the resistance may slacken over time

I know its 2k but at least you will never be tempted to also get an Ipad Pro and probably use it detached mode more times than an Ipad/Tab, using it with the screen reversed in tent like mode seems a great way to watch videos in bed etc

Personally I was not surprised the KB won't charge the Top unit like a battery pack, however you can charge them independently and surprisingly the docking unit is a faster charge unit and offers a full solution opposed to Apple, even the mains charger is more compact with a spare USB charge port, MS seem to have gone all out on thoughtfulness

Screen wobbling is just nit-picking IMO as all clamshells do this to some degree and dust down the gap, geeze what next put the charge plug in the wrong way round and it blocks a port, wow.

I know some people like Apps and consider the MS store a bit lacking when compared to Apple/Android for touch use but I understand there is a software that allows you to use android apps in windows so I may look in to this possible functionality

I think as a standalone clamshell vs 13" rMBP it holds it's self up high, it ticks all the right boxes, quality, KB trackpad, screen performance, battery life, chuck in all the extras detachable, touch, pen etc even if you rarely use them it's a no lose scenario IMO

 

[maflynn]

I think as a standalone clamshell vs 13" rMBP it holds it's self up high, it ticks all the right boxes, quality, KB trackpad, screen performance, battery life, chuck in all the extras detachable, touch, pen etc even if you rarely use them it's a no lose scenario IMO

I agree, and it was a nice computer, but what I'm trying to figure out, is what machine gives me the best value for my 2,000 dollars. The SB is on my short list.

 

[zhenya]

FWIW, I'm watching the Windows Weekly podcast and Thurrott is coming out very negatively towards the SurfaceBook. His position on not recommending is due to the issues he had with a pre-production unit. Now he qualifies his statements saying it is a pre-production unit but his concerns are warranted.
His issues are related to actual battery life (though other reviews mention very good battery life)
Lagging on the pen
Sound issues that appears to be feedback or electrical noice. Thurrott said MS will issue a patch to resolve this.

His negatively does give me further pause.

Mary Jo Foley appears more positive to the SB.

I think those are genuine concerns. Windows has not shown itself to be totally reliable with docking of any sort, ever. Even the type covers for the Surface Pro's have had issues where they are sometimes not recognized without removing them and re-seating them. It has gotten better over the years, but the issue has existed from day 1, and continues through the SP3. I use the docking station for my SP3 at work, and have it in and out of that dock several times a day. I still have issues with my monitor getting recognized, and had Ethernet issues until just recently with Win 10. There is also a bug that persists in Win 10 where if the un-docked tablet is put to sleep in portrait and then placed in the dock, it is locked in portrait until you undock it, let the accelerometer do its thing, then re-dock. There is no question that I'd be concerned about how Windows manages the complexity of docking to an external GPU and managing a software/hardware interaction to release the clipboard.

I do think that the clipboard is the perfect Surface design for a laptop, however. I could probably get away with the battery life from the clipboard as it stands because I find the best part about the Surface Pro is how nice it feels to move from my desktop workstation to meeting companion. The Surface book's clipboard is good enough to fit that need. That said, when it comes down to it, I've come to really appreciate the size and weight and form factor of the Surface Pro. I can't imagine going back to a 3.5lb laptop. On my desk it's docked without the keyboard and just feels like another screen, not a huge laptop taking up precious desktop space, much of it wasted with a redundant keyboard and mouse. I'm really hopeful that the new type cover is the advancement I've been waiting for.

 

[AFEPPL]

How does it compare physically to the 13" rMBP?

Q-6

Looks are subjective but I'd say it's a neater design, but familiar to those who like rMBP
Weight felt around the same, I loved the feel of the keyboard and the screen was vivid.
It felt very well put together and worthy of the asking price.

I'd get the device over a MBP and tablet combo. Saves weight overall and its one less thing, while been twice the device.

I think it's a hit

 

[zhenya]

I'd get the device over a MBP and tablet combo. Saves weight overall and its one less thing, while been twice the device.

One big problem with this is that even the Surface Pro doesn't really replace my want for an iPad, and a larger Surface, with less battery life will do so even less. A Macbook Pro and an iPad will provide enough battery life to easily keep you occupied on the longest flight. A Surface would be dead by the halfway point.

 

[AFEPPL]

If you want to carry two devices go for it.
I just plug in on the aircraft but accept not all carriers allow you to do this.

Plus to be honest, I'd rather lose myself in the entertainment or sleep - which I did having just stepped off a 12hour flight around an hour ago. So I would guess for the majority that's simply not an issue or big deal.

 

[SteveJUAE]

I agree, and it was a nice computer, but what I'm trying to figure out, is what machine gives me the best value for my 2,000 dollars. The SB is on my short list.

Just make it top of your shortlist then problem solved

I just tried the Bluestacks Android emulator http://www.bluestacks.com/

Its available for both Apple and Windows laptops although you will need a touch screen windows laptop to get the best results

However for those criticising you need apps specifically for touch it certainly gives greater access to Android apps on a laptop/tablet like the surface line if the MS Store is a bit lacking or you have a particular favourite App on your smartphone/Ipad/Tablet etc

Its a bit clunky to use and I do not use many apps on my phone but one particularly large app I do use is for boating "Navionics" and all my charts etc synched and downloaded fine

 

[SteveJUAE]

One big problem with this is that even the Surface Pro doesn't really replace my want for an iPad, and a larger Surface, with less battery life will do so even less. A Macbook Pro and an iPad will provide enough battery life to easily keep you occupied on the longest flight. A Surface would be dead by the halfway point.

This is only assuming you removed the KB part on the SB, if you simply reverse the screen and keep the KB attached 12 hours ish time should suffice if not better than an Ipad also assuming there is no power supply available in flight

 

[zhenya]

This is only assuming you removed the KB part on the SB, if you simply reverse the screen and keep the KB attached 12 hours ish time should suffice if not better than an Ipad also assuming there is no power supply available in flight

An iPad and a Macbook have a combined battery life of well over 20 hours. A Surface book has a claimed battery life of 12 hours combined, which means about 8-9 in practice. I have a Surface Pro. I still carry my iPad.

 

[maflynn]

I have a Surface Pro. I still carry my iPad.

That's what I don't do. With my SP3, I have no need (or desire) to carry my iPad.

 

[zhenya]

That's what I don't do. With my SP3, I have no need (or desire) to carry my iPad.

I really mean on my longer trips and flights where my iPad is my newspaper, magazine, and book. I trust that I'll always have something to read, and a device ready to read it on no matter what. The Surface still doesn't fill that role for me very well, and I can't trust that it will have that much battery left when I go to use it.

Admittedly, after nearly a year, Microsoft has finally done something to update my SP such that it no longer drains the battery quite so aggressively. And it came on the heels of my worst week ever with the device - when one of their updates sent the machine into 100% CPU usage for days, literally costing me 2+ days of work. Suddenly however the fans rarely come on and while I still can't get anything like 9 hours, 7 hours is at least in the realm of possibility.

 

[maflynn]

Ah, I see what you're saying and yes that makes perfect sense.

I have an SP3 and I guess I've been lucky, I've never incurred any battery draining issues.

 

[SteveJUAE]

An iPad and a Macbook have a combined battery life of well over 20 hours. A Surface book has a claimed battery life of 12 hours combined, which means about 8-9 in practice. I have a Surface Pro. I still carry my iPad.

Considering the typical longest non stop flights are around 17 hrs, less 2-3hrs for take-off, landing, eating, and toilet breaks etc comes down to 14-15 hrs a SB and your smartphone which I already assume you are carrying would cover that period.

All the airlines covering the top 10 flights over 15hrs have on-board charging facilities with maybe the exception of Delta, but I suspect they do.

For what its worth most reviews are reporting far higher playback times than you are considering for the SB

However each to their own and if 2/3 devices are what you require that's fine. I certainly could not watch any screen for that amount of time whilst flying and I have done the Houston - Doha flight quite a few times.

 

[zhenya]

Considering the typical longest non stop flights are around 17 hrs, less 2-3hrs for take-off, landing, eating, and toilet breaks etc comes down to 14-15 hrs a SB and your smartphone which I already assume you are carrying would cover that period.

All the airlines covering the top 10 flights over 15hrs have on-board charging facilities with maybe the exception of Delta, but I suspect they do.

For what its worth most reviews are reporting far higher playback times than you are considering for the SB

However each to their own and if 2/3 devices are what you require that's fine. I certainly could not watch any screen for that amount of time whilst flying and I have done the Houston - Doha flight quite a few times.

Flying inevitably involves an hour or two beforehand in the lounge or at the gate, layovers, delays, etc. I'd love it if my Surface was really the device that could integrate everything, but I've used one every day pretty much since the release of the SP1. I don't place any value in the battery life estimates of reviewers running controlled tests on vanilla Windows installs. I've never, ever, gotten anywhere near the rated battery life on a Surface Pro, despite heavy power management on my end. There is also the very real problem that you can't assume that just because you put the thing in your bag at 100% it will still be there when you go to use it. It's routinely at 90% after half a day of sitting around, and it's not like it's infrequent that it's at 80% or less. That means my 6 hours of battery life is now 4 or so.

Really though, the lack of apps is equally at fault. The Kindle app is miserable, as are the few magazine apps that exist.

 

[boltjames]

One big problem with this is that even the Surface Pro doesn't really replace my want for an iPad, and a larger Surface, with less battery life will do so even less. A Macbook Pro and an iPad will provide enough battery life to easily keep you occupied on the longest flight. A Surface would be dead by the halfway point.

+1

It makes no sense for Microsoft to go through all the trouble of making a detachable tablet if it has only 3 hours of battery life.

They should have just made a fantastic notebook, no hinge, no removable screen, and called it a day. At face value, they created an expensive and complex notebook that has a weak benefit of a removable screen for a short presentation or class notes? How big is the audience for something like that?

The hype and the promise of a convertible is that you can leave your tablet at home, just bring one device that is both a notebook and a tablet and make it easier on yourself. That's not what's going on with the SB. And unless I'm missing something, the only way the detachable tablet "stands" on a flight is if its bolted onto its keyboard, yes? That makes no sense either. Then its not a tablet when its not in your hands, won't fit on an airline tray table while you eat your meal, has to go away.

BJ

 

[burgman]

Haha LOLz. Imagine you just working on a project then all of a sudden BSOD: http://news.softpedia.com/news/micr...hdog-violation-bsod-promises-fix-493754.shtml

That **** is universal for people running Windoze. It's a POS OS like any Windoze version.

And only masochists like Windoze users love to tinker their OS every minute just to make it work right

Too be taken seriously don't post like 14 year old unless of course you are one.

 

[SteveJUAE]

Really though, the lack of apps is equally at fault. The Kindle app is miserable, as are the few magazine apps that exist.

Be interesting if the native Android Kindle app runs ok under Bluestacks

As much as I am drawn to the Surface book specs etc I can't get over the weight so I may have to just try out a maxed out Surface Pro 4

Only problem is getting hold of one other than ordering one from the USA I may see if my Son can bring me one from the UK and let him have my rMB 1.2 to replace his 2 year old MBA 11"

Then if I don't like it I can always revert back to the rMB but a 2016 version when it comes

 

[ahostmadsen]

On my desk it's docked without the keyboard and just feels like another screen, not a huge laptop taking up precious desktop space, much of it wasted with a redundant keyboard and mouse. I'm really hopeful that the new type cover is the advancement I've been waiting for.

That is a good point. On my desk I connect my rMB to an external monitor and bluetooth keyboard, and use the rMB screen as a second screen. The rMB keyboard is always in the way.

I bought a Surface Pro 4 for my wife. Then I can play around with it and see if I want to replace my Apple products with a Surface next time I upgrade.

 

[torana355]

My mate got a surface pro 3 the other day and i must say im pretty impressed with it overall. He upgraded it to Windows 10 and it just flies. I can only imagine how good the SP4 is going to be. Unless Apple pull their finger out i could see my self moving back to windows for my next laptop purchase. Apple rely heavily on their previous success to sell products there days and they are not really being as innovative as they could be.

 

[torana355]

Why would anyone want Windows. I just tossed a win 7 pro laptop cause of 1/2 hour boot and stop times due to so many updates. Have they fixed that crap yet?
Before that it was constant format C and reload a fresh system every 6 months..... That and I never had a Windows pc of any make or model last more than 2 years of good performance

Ive had Windows 7 running on my HTPC for years and it runs like the day i built it. From what i hear Windows has gotten even better since 7. Gone are the days of Windows XP with its constant slowdowns ect ect.