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Surface Pro shows what Macbook could have been, what new Macs need?

Strange, but are our rMB not worthy of comparison or speculation against the new Surface Pro 4

I can google many articles comparing the SP4 against MBA, MBP and IPad Pro but nothing on our rMB
 
cbautis2 said:
M$ placed the surface book against rMB and rMBP while SP4 is aimed at MBA and Ipad Pro.
Click to expand...

Exactly they seem to skip over the rMB

Size/weight and bottom config is a M processor on a SP4 closer to a rMB than an Ipad pro IMO although it is as configurable as the MBA so the higher versions sit more towards the MBA

The Surface Book is clearly aimed at the MBP
 
SteveJUAE said:
The Surface Book is clearly aimed at the MBP
Click to expand...
I agree and their marketing seems to indicate this as well. I'm curious to see real world reviews, usage and benchmarks on this bad boy.

I'm leaning towards getting a desktop this time around, but as I've said a number of times, the SB is a nice machine and its on my short list of possible replacements for my aging MBP. Before I'd even consider it, would be how its actually used in real life as opposed to what MS is marketing 🙂
 
maflynn said:
I agree and their marketing seems to indicate this as well. I'm curious to see real world reviews, usage and benchmarks on this bad boy.

I'm leaning towards getting a desktop this time around, but as I've said a number of times, the SB is a nice machine and its on my short list of possible replacements for my aging MBP. Before I'd even consider it, would be how its actually used in real life as opposed to what MS is marketing 🙂
Click to expand...

Yes some real numbers would be nice

Then we can argue if the real numbers are real 🙂
 
Ghost31 said:
Always funny when people try to predict what Apple would do and think just because Tim said something that they won't just change their mind later. It's pretty myopic to think such short term. If the heads at Apple find an implementation they like, no doubt they will react to what the market wants if the marker wants them.
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The non-Windows notebook market is tiny and the tablet market is vanishing so I'd take Mr. Cook at his word. Making a niche hybrid convertible of two low-performing market items and going after a sub-niche isn't something the world's largest company needs to concern themselves with.

Now, if you're looking for a smoking-gun where Apple could go in and disrupt a huge market as they did very successfully with Music (iTunes Music Store) and Mobile (iPhone) then the discussion gets really interesting:

Apple could CRUSH the personal and enterprise notebook space if they simply made a dedicated Windows MacBook. There are hundreds of millions of people who adore their Apple iOS hardware who are not allowed to enjoy Apple computer hardware because of OS incompatibility. I'm one of them. Tired of using crappy notebooks, forced to run Windows on Boot Camp after a convoluted install process that no average user could handle, my RMB occasionally boots to OSX for no reason. Just release a RMB that comes with Windows preinstalled, allow the Genius Bar to support it, boom, Apple doesn't need some bizzarro hybrid notebook/tablet. Chase the big fish, not the little one.

BJ
 
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boltjames said:
The non-Windows notebook market is tiny and the tablet market is vanishing so I'd take Mr. Cook at his word. Making a niche hybrid convertible of two low-performing market items and going after a sub-niche isn't something the world's largest company needs to concern themselves with.

Now, if you're looking for a smoking-gun where Apple could go in and disrupt a huge market as they did very successfully with Music (iTunes Music Store) and Mobile (iPhone) then the discussion gets really interesting:

Apple could CRUSH the personal and enterprise notebook space if they simply made a dedicated Windows MacBook. There are hundreds of millions of people who adore their Apple iOS hardware who are not allowed to enjoy Apple computer hardware because of OS incompatibility. I'm one of them. Tired of using crappy notebooks, forced to run Windows on Boot Camp after a convoluted install process that no average user could handle, my RMB occasionally boots to OSX for no reason. Just release a RMB that comes with Windows preinstalled, allow the Genius Bar to support it, boom, Apple doesn't need some bizzarro hybrid notebook/tablet. Chase the big fish, not the little one.

BJ
Click to expand...

That still wouldn't work for most enterprise users. They would also need to make a dock and allow the device to be upgraded/repaired easily. Apple seems to prefer making a premium on upgrades rather than allow batteries/hard drives/ram to be user replaceable.
 
bking10 said:
That still wouldn't work for most enterprise users. They would also need to make a dock and allow the device to be upgraded/repaired easily. Apple seems to prefer making a premium on upgrades rather than allow batteries/hard drives/ram to be user replaceable.
Click to expand...

Interesting angle, but Apple would generate so much revenue off of explosive MacBook sales that taking them back and swapping them out wouldn't be an issue.

Point being, if Apple wanted to be serious about the notebook market from a revenue standpoint all they'd have to do is flip a switch, install Windows natively on the likes of the Air ($799 opening pricepoint) and the Retina MacBook ($1299 premium), and that's that. And with the whopping 2 days worth of work they'd generate more revenue in a day than they would on some hybrid Frankenpad in a decade.

Apple can unleash the Windows cracken any time it chooses. MacBook hardware is less than 3% of the market because it's hindered by OSX. Imagine a world where any business, executive, or homeowner can waltz in to an Apple store and get a Windows notebook and all that great Apple design and all that terrific Genius Bar service. It something no one in the Windows hardware world can compete with. Apple would have similar domination on the desktop as they do with mobile. Methinks that down the road when iPhone sales are flatlined and iPad sales are awful it'll be the next step.

BJ
 
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Why would anyone want Windows. I just tossed a win 7 pro laptop cause of 1/2 hour boot and stop times due to so many updates. Have they fixed that crap yet?
Before that it was constant format C and reload a fresh system every 6 months..... That and I never had a Windows pc of any make or model last more than 2 years of good performance
 
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The surface line is still not attractive whatsoever. I am open to new designs but nothing beats the timeless design of the MacBooks including the new rMb.
 
boltjames said:
Interesting angle, but Apple would generate so much revenue off of explosive MacBook sales that taking them back and swapping them out wouldn't be an issue.

Point being, if Apple wanted to be serious about the notebook market from a revenue standpoint all they'd have to do is flip a switch, install Windows natively on the likes of the Air ($799 opening pricepoint) and the Retina MacBook ($1299 premium), and that's that. And with the whopping 2 days worth of work they'd generate more revenue in a day than they would on some hybrid Frankenpad in a decade.

Apple can unleash the Windows cracken any time it chooses. MacBook hardware is less than 3% of the market because it's hindered by OSX. Imagine a world where any business, executive, or homeowner can waltz in to an Apple store and get a Windows notebook and all that great Apple design and all that terrific Genius Bar service. It something no one in the Windows hardware world can compete with. Apple would have similar domination on the desktop as they do with mobile. Methinks that down the road when iPhone sales are flatlined and iPad sales are awful it'll be the next step.

BJ
Click to expand...

Interesting thought but there maybe a slight problem in a crowded premium market segment especially if you believe Apple already dominate there

Perhaps a simpler solution that may generate more revenue is like Iphone's to convince everyone to trade in and upgrade every 1-2 years on contract/lease plan

Then typically those buyers now sitting on the fence waiting for Skylake upgrade need not worry, just trade up with each new processor upgrade 🙂
 
TheMacApple said:
Why would anyone want Windows. I just tossed a win 7 pro laptop cause of 1/2 hour boot and stop times due to so many updates. Have they fixed that crap yet?
Before that it was constant format C and reload a fresh system every 6 months..... That and I never had a Windows pc of any make or model last more than 2 years of good performance
Click to expand...

For the record, no one "wants" an operating system. It doesn't matter. It's just something that gets out of the way so you can get to your applications. Windows, OSX, Linux, these things don't matter to the average person.

That said, 96% of the world only 'wants' a Windows notebook because a) that's what they're used to and b) that's what they use at work. If you twisted their arms they could adapt to another OS but they don't want to and they won't. History makes that very clear.

BJ

SteveJUAE said:
Interesting thought but there maybe a slight problem in a crowded premium market segment especially if you believe Apple already dominate there

Perhaps a simpler solution that may generate more revenue is like Iphone's to convince everyone to trade in and upgrade every 1-2 years on contract/lease plan

Then typically those buyers now sitting on the fence waiting for Skylake upgrade need not worry, just trade up with each new processor upgrade
Click to expand...

People tend to forget that the iPhone never happens without Apple bowing to Windows.

Flash back to 2001, the iPod is released, it only works on Mac OS and can only connect to an iMac. It's a niche product, very few sales. After 3 soft years, Apple realizes that the iPod isn't driving people to convert to iMac's like they thought and they find out that many are using third-party software to allow their iPod's to work on Windows. So in 2004 they switch to USB, they make iTunes for Windows, bing-bang-boom, iPod goes from a small player to world domination overnight, before you know it you have 50 million iTunes accounts.

And those 50 million iTunes accounts were connected to libraries and those libraries needed to sync to the next gen iPod which turned out to be a phone called iPhone.

So, whenever Apple feels like it, they can do the same thing for notebooks. Let Windows users get the best hardware made without being blocked for the sake of an operating system that's becoming obsolete. I'm running Windows 10 on my RMB and it's perfect, couldn't be happier. I never use OSX, ever, except for once in a blue moon for Facetime when I'm on the road and Skype won't do the trick with the kids. Installing Windows is a PITA, well beyond the capabilities of Mr. & Mrs. Average Computer User. When Apple's sales soften and innovation slows all they have to do is announce MacBook For Windows and they'll get a nice three year ride for very little effort.

BJ
 
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AFEPPL said:
I think MS has done wonders with this.
I went to the MS store for a play and I was very impressed.
Click to expand...
I'm looking to see this in person myself - so you're saying the SurfaceBook is in the stores now - at least the demo units?
 
TheMacApple said:
Why would anyone want Windows. I just tossed a win 7 pro laptop cause of 1/2 hour boot and stop times due to so many updates. Have they fixed that crap yet?
Before that it was constant format C and reload a fresh system every 6 months..... That and I never had a Windows pc of any make or model last more than 2 years of good performance
Click to expand...

Sounds like you were doing a really poor job of looking after your PC. Windows Updates are issued on the second Tuesday of each month. I've no idea what you were doing with your PC, but the rest of the world seems to cope just fine with the patching cycle. "They" didn't need to fix anything. Perhaps you just bought a cheap PC with cheap crappy components and you wonder why you had issues?
 
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TheMacApple said:
Why would anyone want Windows. I just tossed a win 7 pro laptop cause of 1/2 hour boot and stop times due to so many updates. Have they fixed that crap yet?
Before that it was constant format C and reload a fresh system every 6 months..... That and I never had a Windows pc of any make or model last more than 2 years of good performance
Click to expand...
My company uses win7 and its been problem free, I've had the computer for years and its been fine.

I have a SP3 and right now is on windows 10 - it boots up much much faster then any of my Macs (by an order of magnitude).

Windows does have a lot of updates, i.e.,patch tuesday but generally speaking the days of needing to reformat and reload windows to fix performance issues are long gone imo.
 
boltjames said:
Interesting angle, but Apple would generate so much revenue off of explosive MacBook sales that taking them back and swapping them out wouldn't be an issue.

Point being, if Apple wanted to be serious about the notebook market from a revenue standpoint all they'd have to do is flip a switch, install Windows natively on the likes of the Air ($799 opening pricepoint) and the Retina MacBook ($1299 premium), and that's that. And with the whopping 2 days worth of work they'd generate more revenue in a day than they would on some hybrid Frankenpad in a decade.

Apple can unleash the Windows cracken any time it chooses. MacBook hardware is less than 3% of the market because it's hindered by OSX. Imagine a world where any business, executive, or homeowner can waltz in to an Apple store and get a Windows notebook and all that great Apple design and all that terrific Genius Bar service. It something no one in the Windows hardware world can compete with. Apple would have similar domination on the desktop as they do with mobile. Methinks that down the road when iPhone sales are flatlined and iPad sales are awful it'll be the next step.

BJ
Click to expand...
this is an interesting concept...
 
TheMacApple said:
Why would anyone want Windows. I just tossed a win 7 pro laptop cause of 1/2 hour boot and stop times due to so many updates. Have they fixed that crap yet?
Before that it was constant format C and reload a fresh system every 6 months..... That and I never had a Windows pc of any make or model last more than 2 years of good performance
Click to expand...

I not quite sure why you think it's so difficult to update in windows, my wife even manages to click an OK button occasionally when prompted and her computer awareness is minimal

If anything the recent free upgrade to windows 10 on her old 2014 rMBP laptop was a breeze just a couple of simple clicks on automated acceptance prompts, yet the free upgrade to El Capitan involved numerous steps, logging in confirming details, telephone numbers etc etc before the free upgrade would download

In the end I just put gibberish to get around the questions and selected no credit card this is opposed to MS who asked for nothing to upgrade.
 
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iA724 said:
this is an interesting concept...
Click to expand...

What I find interesting is that Apple's platform for Apple TV and Apple Music is loosely "these industries are broken, fragmented, we're going to make things easier for everyone!" and then Apple goes ahead and continues its 20 year quest to disregard the Windows environment and its users, perpetuates the same broken, fragmented and needlessly competitive operating system disconnect.

No one cares about operating systems anyway, it's just a conduit to the apps we need. I don't think about Windows for even a second as I power up my PC, I just need to get to Outlook and Office so I can get my work done. And what kudos people point to OSX for like Finder and iMessage and FaceTime and Spotlight are all just apps anyway. There really is nothing special about the operating system. It's just a place to click a mouse to get to where you really want to go.

Wave the white flag, accept the final score of 96-4, release MacBook for Windows, put the best hardware together with the most popular operating system, give your damn consumers what they want, let's go already. It shouldn't be that as a price to pay for the stellar hardware one must accept an operating system that is foreign and not work-friendly. As they criticize the Music industry and the TV industry, Apple is the problem in the computing industry.

BJ
 
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Reviews are coming in today! From the surface Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/Surface/comments/3pmrt1/surface_book_surface_pro_4_reviews_coming_in/

Surface Book

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9732/the-microsoft-surface-book-first-look

http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/microsoft-surface-book

http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/21/surface-book-review/

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9574381/microsoft-surface-book-laptop-review

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/10/surface-book-review-the-laptop-that-replaces-your-tablet/

http://gizmodo.com/microsoft-surface-book-review-so-good-i-might-switch-1737680767

http://www.wired.com/2015/10/review-microsoft-surface-book/

http://www.pcworld.com/video/59003/microsoft-surface-book-review-it-really-is-this-good

http://www.cnet.com/products/microsoft-surface-book/

http://mashable.com/2015/10/21/microsoft-surface-book-review/#2.Ad40Qkmkqf

https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/mic...crosoft-surface-book-core-i58-gb256-gb-review

http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/21/hands-on-with-microsofts-new-surface-book-laptop-hybrid/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/microso...view-new-hope-for-windows-hardware-1445435304


Surface Pro 4

http://www.anandtech.com/show/9727/the-microsoft-surface-pro-4-review-raising-the-bar

http://www.engadget.com/2015/10/21/surface-pro-4-review/

http://www.theverge.com/2015/10/21/9579265/microsoft-surface-pro-4-review

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015...-that-still-doesnt-quite-replace-your-laptop/

http://gizmodo.com/microsoft-surface-pro-4-review-i-love-it-but-not-for-1737565503

http://www.wired.com/2015/10/review-microsoft-surface-pro-4/

http://www.pcworld.com/video/58984/...kylake-a-better-keyboard-and-more-competition

http://www.cnet.com/products/microsoft-surface-pro-4/

http://mashable.com/2015/10/21/microsoft-surface-pro-4-review/#F4wS.1vpmGqi

http://www.windowscentral.com/surface-pro-4-review

https://www.thurrott.com/mobile/microsoft-surface/7061/microsoft-surface-pro-4-review

http://techcrunch.com/2015/10/21/hands-on-with-microsofts-new-surface-pro-4/

http://www.wsj.com/articles/microso...view-new-hope-for-windows-hardware-1445435304
 
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