Surface Pro shows what Macbook could have been, what new Macs need?

[jimboutilier]

Watching the Microsoft announcements - It looks like Microsoft's put themselves into the laptop and tablet hardware game, and finally renewed the Lumia a bit.

Microsoft's out with a really interesting hardware and software answer to dockable tablets to make a laptop too - the hinge looks good, and Skylake's ability to use external GPU is being used too.

Looks like they may be turning around, and ahead of Apple in several ways - what do you think?

I found the Surface line compelling enough this year to buy my first PC since Apple went Intel. It was partly due to being part of the Windows 10 beta and Office 2016 beta's - they showed me that Microsoft had picked up its game in innovation and software quality. And it was partly due to the fact that Apple has been doing the opposite - both their innovation and software quality has been on the decline.

So I figured, what the heck, I'll try a MS machine running MS hardware and see what it's like as an everyday driver. Its clear that MS has been closing the gap with Apple, but its also clear to me that the gap isn't completely closed. I have a lot more glitches running W10 on my Surface than on my rMB running OS X. But most are just annoying rather than serious. I'm not in any danger of converting to MS for my primary machine, but I find the Surface/W10 experience compelling enough I will be keeping it as my secondary system. And if my Work required me to use Windows I'd have no huge issue (as I have in the past) with doing that - particularly if I got to use the Surface line.

As folks have said - competition is good. Everyone picks up their game if they want to win.

 

[maflynn]

the Retina MacBook is by far the best thing Apple has released in several years, however fundamentally its`s the same in a smaller albeit better package

How did Apple crush it. They took a MacBook Air, removed all ports, but one, added a retina screen and made it thinner and fanless.

Now I'm nots saying its a bad computer but I do question that its the best thing apple released in years.

 

[Barna Biro]

„best thing” is clearly subjective. I for one am happy with my 1st gen 13" rMBP. Had the rMB been more powerful ( CPU especially ) and with a Thunderbolt port ( to connect my eGPU ), I might have even purchased one. It's by no means a bad piece of technology, but just like anything else, it can't fit all needs. For some, it's a blessing, for others... As for the Surface Book, it does look interesting and while I don't see myself getting one ( although, the more I look at it, the more tempted I seem to get ), Microsoft has definitely been pushing things more than Apple in the past years. They might not have all the pieces in place just yet, but if they keep it up, then it's just a matter of time. Apple needs to step their game up...

In all honesty, the Macbook's touchpad and Thunderbold port are the things keeping me from switching. I really don't like the way things are going in Apple-Land right now...

 

[Queen6]

How did Apple crush it. They took a MacBook Air, removed all ports, but one, added a retina screen and made it thinner and fanless.

Now I'm nots saying its a bad computer but I do question that its the best thing apple released in years.

Well it`s not like they have released anything else remotely exciting for OS X & Mac The rMB is fantastic Ultraportable if it meets your needs, equally I agree it`s a niche product. The rest of the lineup is the same old, same old. When you look at the diversity offered by some other hardware manufacturers, I sometimes wonder why Apple didn't get ahead of the game, like as not they were too busy getting fat & lazy off IOS etc.

People may, or may not care for Windows, equally Microsoft have "nailed" it with the Surface Book. Not the biggest fan of Windows myself, however the usage scenarios make for a tempting proposition. "This is the future of laptop computing." totally valid as some have already stated Microsoft are still on the "journey" all the same is very promising.

Personally I am looking to replace my 15" rMBP, I am hoping that Apple will have something spectacular for 2016, if not frankly although I much prefer OS X the high tier Surface Book may well be it`s replacement. For someone in business and travels frequently it makes sense, equally Microsoft need to deliver as promised...

Q-6

 

[zhenya]

I think the new Surface Book looks like a great product, but it is categorically not a competitor for the MacBook as it weighs in at 3.5lbs. There is also the question of how much battery life the tablet portion gets on it's own - it sounds like it is 3 hours claimed - which means about 1.5-2 hours real life. This is a laptop that can be used sparingly as a tablet.

 

[maflynn]

I think the new Surface Book looks like a great product, but it is categorically not a competitor for the MacBook

I never took it as a competitor of the rMB. I think its going up against the 13" rMBP, and wen you line up the MBP against the SurfaceBook, the RMB comes up lacking in some metrics.

 

[Queen6]

I never took it as a competitor of the rMB. I think its going up against the 13" rMBP, and wen you line up the MBP against the SurfaceBook, the RMB comes up lacking in some metrics.

Literally to the Dollar, $2699 will get you a fully loaded Surface Book or 13" Retina MacBook Pro...

Q-6

 

[Warbrain]

I don't think it does. As much as the tech press wants to tell people that the Surface is popular, I only know one person who uses one daily and have seen only one in public. It's not popular at all. People are interested in these devices but they're not buying these devices.

I think the more accurate comparison is that the Surface Pro 4 is what the iPad Pro should have been. The iPad Pro is, in my opinion, DOA. It's an incapable device for a lot of tasks.

 

[boltjames]

It's so funny that Windoze runs better on a Mac than any Windoze laptops, even on M$ Surface 3/Pro 3. So many returns of SP3/S3 due to so many glitches which is why I only use OS X and anything Windoze sucks while it's only acceptable running on a Mac.

It's also so funny windows 10 runs better on my MacBook than OSX. I use both environments extensively and have to say Windows 10 wins. Apple has come catching up

I love the forum's ignore feature for this kind of garbage.

I know, I can't even figure out where I fit in this discussion. I have a MacBook and I run Windows 10 on it exclusively. So am I a pro-Apple guy because I love the hardware or am I a pro-Windows guy because I need the OS for work?

Getting a migraine.

BJ

 

[boltjames]

Apple is nowhere near being able to do this stuff. OS X isn't close to being touch worthy. So they just keep bringing out bigger tablets which are really just bigger iPhones. You can have the iPhone 6, the 6+,the 6++(iPad mini),the 6+++(iPad Air), or 6++++(iPad pro). They really are all the same. Or you get a computer. Kinda hasn't changed in years. Just bigger or smaller and faster processors. A little better display. Blah blah. Nothingness

I travel extensively for work. The form factor and weight of the RMB is fantastic and I am grateful that Apple made it.

As for touch on a notebook, zero use for that. We buy notebooks for their full sized keyboards and mice. It's why they exist.

BJ

 

[Queen6]

I don't think it does. As much as the tech press wants to tell people that the Surface is popular, I only know one person who uses one daily and have seen only one in public. It's not popular at all. People are interested in these devices but they're not buying these devices.

I think the more accurate comparison is that the Surface Pro 4 is what the iPad Pro should have been. The iPad Pro is, in my opinion, DOA. It's an incapable device for a lot of tasks.

I know a good few with the Surface and the majority love the later versions, as for the iPad Pro couldn't agree more...

Q-3

 

[Warbrain]

I know a good few with the Surface and the majority love the later versions, as for the iPad Pro couldn't agree more...

Q-3

The person I know loves and swears by it. But it's definitely not flying off the shelves like Microsoft and the tech press would want you to believe.

 

[ayushsrk]

Spec-wise both surface pro 4 and surface book trump over macbook air and iPad pro. However I don't think that is what is going to make any apple user change their minds. Apple has always been behind on basis of specs so this really should not be of surprise.

To me the trackpad and os x experience is something I probably will never get enough of. And paired with bettertouchtool my macbook couldn't have been better!! Also one more thing is the stability. The overall stability, speed and security of OS X is without doubt better in the long term..

 

[Queen6]

The person I know loves and swears by it. But it's definitely not flying off the shelves like Microsoft and the tech press would want you to believe.

That`s understandable sales hype and all, equally those that own/use the SP-3 do speak very highly of the device.

Q-6

 

[Queen6]

Spec-wise both surface pro 4 and surface book trump over macbook air and iPad pro. However I don't think that is what is going to make any apple user change their minds. Apple has always been behind on basis of specs so this really should not be of surprise.

To me the trackpad and os x experience is something I probably will never get enough of. And paired with bettertouchtool my macbook couldn't have been better!! Also one more thing is the stability. The overall stability, speed and security of OS X is without doubt better in the long term..

Windows has been secure and stable for some years now, it`s the users that cause the problems. Given the user base it`s impressive what Microsoft has accomplished, equally I far prefer the OS X user expense.

Q-6

 

[zhenya]

I never took it as a competitor of the rMB. I think its going up against the 13" rMBP, and wen you line up the MBP against the SurfaceBook, the RMB comes up lacking in some metrics.

I'm referring to the title of this thread and the fact that it's in the MacBook forum.

 

[PDFierro]

Nothing will ever take me from Macs. I'm so tied to OS X with the software I use. As I mentioned on page 1, give me simplicity in a laptop...and I'm not the only one who feels this way. I don't want a touchscreen, I don't want to be able to convert the screen into tablet mode. To me, the rMB is the ultimate portable laptop.

Every Mac I've owned has been a dream. Started with the 11-inch Air, then the 13-inch rMBP, and now the 12-inch rMB. You're also paying for design, yeah sure it looks like Microsoft is designing good products now...but majority of PC laptops are crap. Every now and then Dell comes out with a good one, but their build quality is questionable and they don't last as long as Macs do.

I don't even really pay attention to what Microsoft is doing, because I know I'd never switch. IMO, OS X is the only true desktop OS remaining. And I wouldn't be able to get half of the stuff done on Windows that I do on my Mac.

 

[boltjames]

Nothing will ever take me from Macs. I'm so tied to OS X with the software I use. As I mentioned on page 1, give me simplicity in a laptop...and I'm not the only one who feels this way. I don't want a touchscreen, I don't want to be able to convert the screen into tablet mode. To me, the rMB is the ultimate portable laptop.

The Surface is neither a great notebook nor a great tablet. Instead, it does a below average job of each.

Some things aren't meant to be forced together and this is a perfect example. The world's heaviest tablet and the world's sloppiest notebook would never sell individually, so they'll never sell collectively except to ignorant people like my 76 year old mother who might view it as cost effective. Microsoft makes great operating systems, mice, and office suites, they should stick to that.

BJ

 

[LouisLoh]

No way. Touch screens and convertible mode have no place in OS X. And Apple knows that. Many of us wouldn't have bought the MacBook if it had those things.

If Apple were to release an iPad Pro (standalone 10h battery, Apple Pencil) that docks into a keyboard base similar to that of the Surface Book (but running OS X) to the overall size of a 13-inch MacBook Air, I'd be the first in line to buy that.

 

[Queen6]

If Apple were to release an iPad Pro (standalone 10h battery, Apple Pencil) that docks into a keyboard base similar to that of the Surface Book (but running OS X) to the overall size of a 13-inch MacBook Air, I'd be the first in line to buy that.

As would be many of the detractors of the Surface..

Q-6

 

[Warbrain]

If Apple were to release an iPad Pro (standalone 10h battery, Apple Pencil) that docks into a keyboard base similar to that of the Surface Book (but running OS X) to the overall size of a 13-inch MacBook Air, I'd be the first in line to buy that.

As would be many of the detractors of the Surface..

Q-6

And everyone here would be applauding it as the best thing ever.

 

[Queen6]

And everyone here would be applauding it as the best thing ever.

Never a truer word

Q-6

 

[LouisLoh]

And everyone here would be applauding it as the best thing ever.

TBH though, that would be the best thing for me ever.

Only things holding me back from Surfaces are

• Type Cover track pad (Pro 4)
• Battery life (tablet portion of Book)
• OS (I might be able to live with Windows 10 as a desktop OS, but its mobile apps are seriously lacking c.f. iOS)

Otherwise, these are beautiful machines.. Even the very first Surface had my heart going.

 

[PDFierro]

If Apple were to release an iPad Pro (standalone 10h battery, Apple Pencil) that docks into a keyboard base similar to that of the Surface Book (but running OS X) to the overall size of a 13-inch MacBook Air, I'd be the first in line to buy that.

What's so appealing about something like that? I guess I just don't get it.

 

[LouisLoh]

What's so appealing about something like that? I guess I just don't get it.

I'd imagine the convenience and portability of having just one device. Even then I can supplement this machine with an iPad Mini for pure consumptive purposes (i.e. this can be an amazing convertible without having to be a be all, end all device).