Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Swiss Federal Railways Says Apple Copied Its Iconic Railway Clock

Wow, so much hatred...

Why don't you tell us, if the clock is a copy?
Why don't you go out with your wife tonight and be nice with everybody you guys meet for the whole evening? Boy, can you do that?


BRLawyer said:
Trust me, I know how your country works - perhaps too well, in fact.

Direct democracy (for some but not all things, as there is a framework for delegation of powers) doesn't mean your government can't screw up - or your people, for that matter.

----------



Chisnic, I have already explained: my criticism was about the average Swiss customer and the mentality behind it. Read my post again and you'll see it with different colors.
Click to expand...
 
This clock is exactly why I bought my iPhone too!! Clearly a copy, how many clocks think to use lines instead of numbers and a red seconds hand?? This is an easy fix for Apple, a simple redesign of one hand and it is no longer a copy. Can be patched in a quick software update.
 
chr1s60 said:
This clock is exactly why I bought my iPhone too!! Clearly a copy, how many clocks think to use lines instead of numbers and a red seconds hand?? This is an easy fix for Apple, a simple redesign of one hand and it is no longer a copy. Can be patched in a quick software update.
Click to expand...

For your info the iPhone's clock in iOS 6 doesn't look like that.
 
chr1s60 said:
This clock is exactly why I bought my iPhone too!! Clearly a copy, how many clocks think to use lines instead of numbers and a red seconds hand?? This is an easy fix for Apple, a simple redesign of one hand and it is no longer a copy. Can be patched in a quick software update.
Click to expand...


Precisely.....problem sorted.
 
Big effing deal!!!

nirvana101 said:
Make jokes about this but the underlying thing is that Apple actually stole another design without licensing for it. They should have known better and since they are so sue happy, perhaps they should be sued now knowing how many millions of iPhone 5's are out there now... hey, if its good for the goose... etc, etc..
Click to expand...

haruhiko said:
Man that clock face is REALLY stunning. Apple should have paid to use it.
Click to expand...

BIG EFFING DEAL!!!

There's an App called "Night Stand" that uses the same clock face. And it's been available for download from the App Store for quite a while now, years before iOS6

8008557885_6c4099181b_z_d.jpg
 
Last edited:
tdiaz said:
"damages"? How is the railroad "damaged" by the use of a pretty generic looking stupid clock face?

Big whoop. Buy some train passes for the poor and move on.
Click to expand...

It is "damaged" because the design of the Swiss clock face is a piece of intellectual property which is owned by someone else and they are entitled to make money from the time and effort that went into the design (just as Apple were entitled to sit down with a blank piece of paper and design their own cool looking clock face).

As has already been shown on here, Mondaine license that design to sell watches. It is quite possible that they may want to bring out their own clock app at some point so that people can pay to have this design on their iPad. That possibility is pretty much blown out of the water if Apple waltz in and use the design themselves without paying for it.

Given that I recognised the clock the minute I updated the OS on my iPad I can't believe that the designers at Apple weren't well aware of this iconic design. It is incredibly shoddy that they went ahead and used it anyway without investigating the legal position first.
 
Xian Zhu Xuande said:
Whoa, tex. Put them shooters away. I was just saying that the Apple vs. Samsung lawsuit is over something on a scale so far beyond this clock matter that a comparison between them is ridiculous.

To be more specific, it looks like Apple directly copied that clock, and they're going to need to change the design or pay the appropriate fees to use its likeness.
Click to expand...

yeah true, soz trigger happy ATM.... the whole mapsgates got me excited :)
 
theinvid said:
--so are these iPhone 5's being given away or sold? It's selling a clock that is identical to the Swiss copyrighted clock...the ONLY difference is this clock has some additional functionality that the Swiss clock does not.

All in all...it's a blatant copy right infringement that shows Apple just steals what they want and that they are hypocrites.
Click to expand...

Uhm...Are you on heroin? The iPhone isn't a clock!

Don't get me wrong I think that Apple is in the wrong here but this isn't even close to the same thing as what Samsung does. Furthermore, Apple could argue that using little ticks to represent numbers is used all over the place, long before the Swiss did it. But I do concede that it certainly appears that Apple have made an obvious effort to capture the look and feel of this specific clock. They should change the clock face or make it right.
 
A good lawyer will note design differences:

  • The border is different.
  • The width of the bar ticks is different.
  • The spacing between them is different.
  • The length and width of the hour/minute/second hands are different.
  • The second hand red bulb is a different diameter and has a unique smaller red bulb at the point all hands meet.

And one more thing -- it's digital vs. mechanical, so any design patent regarding construction or utility would not apply here. People forget patents are really about property rights, i.e. a patent gives the holder the right to exclude others from, among other things, using, selling, and making the claimed invention. Apple isn't doing that.

Look, I know this is all quite silly, just passing along some facts in case anyone does consider a lawsuit. Good luck with that, is my point.
 
For those in the US: The public transport in Europe and especially Switzerland is something you can not compare with what you have.

The railwais in switzerland (SBB) are used and loved by pretty much everyone. You see workers and buisnessman mixed together. Heck, even the people of the federal council (we have 7 Presidents so to speak) use them.

SBB is a great company which provides extremely high quality for customers and employees. The clock is a protected icon for this quality.

The SBB do not do this because they WANT to sue Apple but because the HAVE to. They are protecting themselves.
 
SrWebDeveloper said:
A good lawyer will note design differences:

  • The border is different.
  • The width of the bar ticks is different.
  • The spacing between them is different.
  • The length and width of the hour/minute/second hands are different.
  • The second hand red bulb is a different diameter and has a unique smaller red bulb at the point all hands meet.

And one more thing -- it's digital vs. mechanical, so any design patent regarding construction or utility would not apply here. People forget patents are really about property rights, i.e. a patent gives the holder the right to exclude others from, among other things, using, selling, and making the claimed invention. Apple isn't doing that.

Look, I know this is all quite silly, just passing along some facts in case anyone does consider a lawsuit. Good luck with that, is my point.
Click to expand...

I agree. This probably won't bring anything to SBB. I think (please correct me if I am wrong), you need to change/make different 5 things than the original and you are considered "not a cheater". IMO, regardless, the clocks look exactly the same (I don't care 5 or 10 things are different) and Apple should be penalized but I am sure Apple probably have the best lawyers in the world.
 
xraytech said:
BIG EFFING DEAL!!!

There's an App called "Night Stand" that uses the same clock face. And it's been available for download from the App Store for quite a while now, years before iOS6

Image
Click to expand...

And probably with proper authorization by the rights holders!

----------
SrWebDeveloper said:
A good lawyer will note design differences:

  • The border is different.
  • The width of the bar ticks is different.
  • The spacing between them is different.
  • The length and width of the hour/minute/second hands are different.
  • The second hand red bulb is a different diameter and has a unique smaller red bulb at the point all hands meet.

And one more thing -- it's digital vs. mechanical, so any design patent regarding construction or utility would not apply here. People forget patents are really about property rights, i.e. a patent gives the holder the right to exclude others from, among other things, using, selling, and making the claimed invention. Apple isn't doing that.

Look, I know this is all quite silly, just passing along some facts in case anyone does consider a lawsuit. Good luck with that, is my point.
Click to expand...


Yeah, right. That's also explaining why photographs taken from the Eiffel tower under special light show are protected. Or why images of the Mona Lisa are protected.
You do realize that legislation in Switzerland is not equal to legislation in the US. And that there are various other means of protection other than patents.

Can you explain me why the silouhette of the Coca Cola bottle can possibly be protected? What about Deutsche Telekom's trademarked color, magenta? Did you know that you can protect even a simple series of musical notes? Do you have even the slightest idea of the magnitude of things you can legally protect?
 
When you look closely, the differences are obvious. I guess Apple knew they were essentially stealing the design so they modified it just enough to be on good legal ground in case of a lawsuit.
 
celo48 said:
I agree. This probably won't bring anything to SBB. I think (please correct me if I am wrong), you need to change/make different 5 things than the original and you are considered "not a cheater". IMO, regardless, the clocks look exactly the same (I don't care 5 or 10 things are different) and Apple should be penalized but I am sure Apple probably have the best lawyers in the world.
Click to expand...

However, you have to remember that this is still a copyrighted design belonging to the Schweizerische Bundesbahnen (SBB), and as such is protected by the Berne Convention on international copyrights, of which the US is a signatory to that agreement. Because of this, SBB has all legal right to protect the design of that clock, and given that Apple didn't ask for permission to use that design, SBB could sue Apple in US Court or an European Union court to ask for cease and desist order and/or a monetary compensation payment for unauthorized use of the design. Given that iOS 6.0 will be soon on many millions of iPhones, iPads and iPod touch devices, SBB could ask for a pretty hefty sum over this matter, especially given that the clock face Apple used is a near-identical copy of the SBB-copyrighted original.
 
I don't see any complication here..

The Apple clock looks like SBB's clock, therefore Apple is wrong.

Apples clock looks closer to the SBB clock than Samsung phones looked to the iPhone.
 
ttp said:
Ah, the good old average argument. But you do know that this does not exist, it's a statistical approximation, nothing else. And I don't believe in over-simplyfing individuals. And I'm sure you don't want to get to the average US-American discussion here. My point: If you don't like the place you live, the service you get and how the people behave - just leave.
Click to expand...

Well said, couldn't agree more!
 
SrWebDeveloper said:
And one more thing -- it's digital vs. mechanical, so any design patent regarding construction or utility would not apply here. People forget patents are really about property rights, i.e. a patent gives the holder the right to exclude others from, among other things, using, selling, and making the claimed invention. Apple isn't doing that.

Look, I know this is all quite silly, just passing along some facts in case anyone does consider a lawsuit. Good luck with that, is my point.
Click to expand...

This has nothing to do with patents, it's about trademarks and copyright.
 
it's amusing to see peoples opinions shifting very drastically. everyone was pretty vocal about shading and colors of icons on Samsung phones. we've seen some thorough analysis of icons.. lol.
 
SrWebDeveloper said:
A good lawyer will note design differences:

  • The border is different.
  • The width of the bar ticks is different.
  • The spacing between them is different.
  • The length and width of the hour/minute/second hands are different.
  • The second hand red bulb is a different diameter and has a unique smaller red bulb at the point all hands meet.

And one more thing -- it's digital vs. mechanical, so any design patent regarding construction or utility would not apply here. People forget patents are really about property rights, i.e. a patent gives the holder the right to exclude others from, among other things, using, selling, and making the claimed invention. Apple isn't doing that.

Look, I know this is all quite silly, just passing along some facts in case anyone does consider a lawsuit. Good luck with that, is my point.
Click to expand...

I have no idea why you are talking about patents - that's completely the wrong branch of IP law (they are there to protect inventions, we are not talking about the an invention).

The Swiss Railway would have had an unregistered design right in this (now expired), they would probably have had a registered design right as well (which also would have expired by now).

They may have a copyright in the image although that raises some interesting questions as there is room for debate over whether the original drawings for the clock would attract copyright as an artistic work (this may depend on whether the clock itself qualifies as a work of artistic craftmanship which is not always obvious in the case of a mass produced industrial design).

Another possibility is that the clock image may have been registered as a trademark (no idea if they have done this or not).

A final possibility is that Apple could be sued using the tort of passing off. There is goodwill (in the legal sense) associated with this design. I would argue that there is also a clear misrepresentation which suggests an association between the Apple and the Swiss Railway. There is a connection between the two because both are using the design for the purpose of enabling users to tell the time. Minor tweaks to the design make no difference if the overall impression is that Apple are using an SFR owned design (which would be established by interviewing people and asking them if there is a confusion. Good luck doing that in Europe Apple!) .

Apple's best bet in a passing off claim would be to focus on a lack of damage to SFR's goodwill in order to limit potential damages. All that is academic though. Apple have already suffered reputational damage themselves as it looks as if they can't be bothered to design their own clock and would prefer to rip off someone else's design (a design which is still being used as a source of revenue for the SFR).

Apple will want this to go away as quickly as possible, so it won't go anywhere near a court.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back