Swiss Watchmakers Rebuff Apple's Partnership and Hiring Advances

[alexgowers]

Personally think iwatch is a bad move for apple. but that is a weird company stance to what is a real market for watches.

It seems odd knowing what apple does to product categories to totally rule out partnering with apple on potentially something exciting, how exactly does it hurt them?

 

[mrxak]

The analog watchmakers don't have anything to fear from an iWatch (and it's undoubtably many clones). There's always going to be a market for nice analog watches. I'm in that market and always will be. It's going to be the cheap digital watchmakers that will be annihilated. Looking at you, Casio. It'll be like the iPod in the music player business all over again.

That said, even if Apple doesn't want to (and never will) poach customers, Apple does want to poach employees. That's what this is about. Apple needs designers, people who understand the wrist, and people who understand watches as fashion accessories. They're going into these meetings in order to learn what they need to learn, make contact with the people they want to make contact with, not to "partner up" with anybody. You're not going to see a dual-branded Apple-<some Swiss company> iWatch.

 

[kdarling]

The analog watchmakers don't have anything to fear from an iWatch (and it's undoubtably many clones). There's always going to be a market for nice analog watches. I'm in that market and always will be.

Yep.

It's going to be the cheap digital watchmakers that will be annihilated. Looking at you, Casio. It'll be like the iPod in the music player business all over again.

(scratching head) I must be missing something.

Are you talking about $15-$100 (or even more) Casio watches?

If so, I can't see an Apple smartwatch... which is unlikely to be priced that low... annihilating that cheap watch market.

 

[inscrewtable]

Swatch is not Vacheron Constantin.

 

[apolloa]

Like I said, Samsung and Nexus is also overpriced for what it is (see Xiaomi). Yes, they only update each model once a year, but due to multiple models and brands, the public perceives that their previous model is now 'old' and thus the demand drops. That is why they have to drop their prices.

I am sure Samsung (and every other company including Apple for that matter). would love to artificially keep their prices high as well but they can't because the sales would drop further. Your comment doesn't make sense because the demand is still strong for the iPhone up till a month before the next release. So using terms like deliberate and artificially makes no sense. It is the supply/demand that is effecting the pricing.

As for the iPhone vs iPad pricing, funny enough this is the case for all the other vendors as well if you look at their pricing for phones vs tablet. Samsung, LG, Nexus, etc all price their phones higher because the market is there.

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Xiaomi 3

Well, not to burst your bubble but that phone you mention costs MORE then the Nexus 5 does:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Nexus-Sm...e=UTF8&qid=1396227211&sr=8-1&keywords=nexus+5

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xiaomi-Mi3-...=UTF8&qid=1396227194&sr=8-1&keywords=Xiaomi+3

The Nexus is not overpriced, you are reaching very far to state it is, even the phone you state is better costs more.
Apple do keep the iPhones price artificially high, they do force retail and networks to keep the prices high, the others do not, the iPhone is overpriced, you need to understand that really weather you like it or not. Apple likes to charge too much for it's storage also.

As for tablets costing less than phones, I was looking at Apple not Samsung, but I can buy a 16GB S4 for £330

http://www.expansys.com/samsung-galaxy-s-4-16gb-white-frost-247573/

Apple repackages it's old tech instead and sells it at a premium price still. If you don't admit to the iPhone 5C even being overpriced, then their is little point talking to you as you are well under that RDF.

 

[Toltepeceno]

Errr... The iPhone? All the flag ship phones from the major vendors are around the same price (both in US where it is subsidized as well as the non subsidized price).

If you include expandable storage then the iphone is more expensive. Stick a memory chip in the competition and then it compares with the most expensive iphone at a cheaper price. (I have an iphone) The macbook air's are in line, but macbook pro's are more expensive. A 15" starting at 2 grand is not in line with pc's. I like apple stuff but most of it is more expensive and not just by a slight amount.

Something else. The world is not all the US and for example here in Mexico an iphone 5s is about 825.00 US. Laptops have even more than 200.00 of a price increase over the US. The iphone is the most expensive not even adding in the expandable memory of the androids. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just that apple IS more expensive on most stuff, it's ridiculous to not admit it. OK atv is priced the same (I have one of them also) and the macbook air's are close (but with the 200.00 at least markup here still higher), but everything else here are much higher.

 

[Vtwo]

Well, not to burst your bubble but that phone you mention costs MORE then the Nexus 5 does:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/LG-Nexus-Sm...e=UTF8&qid=1396227211&sr=8-1&keywords=nexus+5

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Xiaomi-Mi3-...=UTF8&qid=1396227194&sr=8-1&keywords=Xiaomi+3

The Nexus is not overpriced, you are reaching very far to state it is, even the phone you state is better costs more.
Apple do keep the iPhones price artificially high, they do force retail and networks to keep the prices high, the others do not, the iPhone is overpriced, you need to understand that really weather you like it or not. Apple likes to charge too much for it's storage also.

As for tablets costing less than phones, I was looking at Apple not Samsung, but I can buy a 16GB S4 for £330

http://www.expansys.com/samsung-galaxy-s-4-16gb-white-frost-247573/

Apple repackages it's old tech instead and sells it at a premium price still. If you don't admit to the iPhone 5C even being overpriced, then their is little point talking to you as you are well under that RDF.

Lol, you are quoting a price from amazon uk for a phone made and marketed for China... Please check the local pricing when you want to compare.

As for being overpriced, I never said Apple isn't priced at a higher premium. But so in Samsung, and all the other name brands. Why do you think brand name is so important in marketing? Brand names cost more, that's the way it is. Don't make it sound like Apple is the only brand to charge a premium. As for getting the S4 at 330 now, then why didn't Samsung release it at this price point? The demand went down and thus so did the pricing.

If you don't think any other brands are charging a premium, then there is little point talking to you as you are just focusing on Apple.

 

[Vtwo]

If you include expandable storage then the iphone is more expensive. Stick a memory chip in the competition and then it compares with the most expensive iphone at a cheaper price. (I have an iphone) The macbook air's are in line, but macbook pro's are more expensive. A 15" starting at 2 grand is not in line with pc's. I like apple stuff but most of it is more expensive and not just by a slight amount.

Something else. The world is not all the US and for example here in Mexico an iphone 5s is about 825.00 US. Laptops have even more than 200.00 of a price increase over the US. The iphone is the most expensive not even adding in the expandable memory of the androids. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just that apple IS more expensive on most stuff, it's ridiculous to not admit it. OK atv is priced the same (I have one of them also) and the macbook air's are close (but with the 200.00 at least markup here still higher), but everything else here are much higher.

Ok, I guess the pricing in different countries is different.

As for the 15 inch Mac Pro. Are you just comparing it to a regular 15 inch labtop from Dell? Or are you trying to match specs including display res, weight, thickness, battery life and build quality. Because all the high end 15 inches cost around that price range.

Apple is more expensive but they also provide a higher quality. Some people here seems to thing that every other vendor is selling things at cost and only Apple is charging a premium.

 

[bkushner]

If it is a Apple product won't it be by default over priced?

Why would you say that?

 

[bkushner]

Can't agree. I have seen both and only someone who has not seen the original might be fooled. Maybe I have not seen one of these excellent copies, dunno, what I have seen was obvious.

You should get out more.

http://www.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=176235

 

[bmt134]

The analog watchmakers don't have anything to fear from an iWatch (and it's undoubtably many clones).

You mean when Apple is copying everyone else's smartwatches.

 

[Toltepeceno]

Ok, I guess the pricing in different countries is different.

As for the 15 inch Mac Pro. Are you just comparing it to a regular 15 inch labtop from Dell? Or are you trying to match specs including display res, weight, thickness, battery life and build quality. Because all the high end 15 inches cost around that price range.

Apple is more expensive but they also provide a higher quality. Some people here seems to thing that every other vendor is selling things at cost and only Apple is charging a premium.

Dell is not a good comparison, but I can build one cheaper. Take a look at this 2000.00 laptop, the spec's. 1920x1080, 2.8 haswell, geforce gtx 880m 8gb, 16gb memory, 120gb ssd AND 1tb hd, blu ray drive, 9 in 1 card reader.

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np8258s-clevo-p157sma-eta-march-p-6989.html?wconfigure=yes

I agree with you on the quality, but it still remains they are much higher. We are saving up for 15" macbook pro's, probably will be a while. There's no denying there is much premium on apple's.

 

[apolloa]

Lol, you are quoting a price from amazon uk for a phone made and marketed for China... Please check the local pricing when you want to compare.

As for being overpriced, I never said Apple isn't priced at a higher premium. But so in Samsung, and all the other name brands. Why do you think brand name is so important in marketing? Brand names cost more, that's the way it is. Don't make it sound like Apple is the only brand to charge a premium. As for getting the S4 at 330 now, then why didn't Samsung release it at this price point? The demand went down and thus so did the pricing.

If you don't think any other brands are charging a premium, then there is little point talking to you as you are just focusing on Apple.

Eh? Check my local pricing? Erm I did! What do you think Amazon.co.uk is? Or are you now deciding to selectively choose which country's I should use the pricing from to match your argument? Which is stupid.

I posted as a FACT that the phone YOU said was cheaper than the Nexus 5 is NOT.
You also have an utterly flawed argument, trying to state why does Samsung not price the S4 cheaper, why does Apple not reduce it's prices then? Because they cost the same to make, in fact an iPhone 5C most likely costs less to make considering it has a lower res screen and older components. Yet Apple charge a ridiculous premium for it.

And I said the iPhone was overpriced, you attempted to argue that by claiming the Nexus 5 was overpriced using a phone which in MY country costs more than the Nexus 5. your argument is utterly flawed.

You also have no idea about mobile phone pricing, withdrawn from the fact that phones drop in cost on tariffs over a year, but the iPhone does not because Apple won't let them.

Anyway, this is going off topic now, not going to say anymore.

 

[lunarman]

The Swiss watch industry is notoriously protective, and incredibly snooty. They do not welcome new players, and especially not a foreign player. I'm not surprised Apple has approached them, as I'm sure they're working on a quality product (more Hublot than Seiko). Apple is in no position to take much sales away from high-end brands ($1,000+ range… people wearing those have no interest in replace in them with a smartwatch), but if I were the head of a Swiss watch firm, I'd be concerned about the lower end of their market. If the idea takes off, I'd expect an eventual partnership with a high-end brand to build in the Apple tech.

I think you are not seeing the whole picture. Apple never goes for the low end. If Apple launches a watch they will go for the high end, where the quality and profits are and they will piss a lot of people, kicking some out of business, as soon as they start selling their products. Apple always gets the majority of the money a market has, in all categories they are since 2001. Name a category and they are eating almost all the money (mp4 players, smartphones, tablets, laptops, desktops, etc. - every category)

 

[fortysomegeek]

I think you are not seeing the whole picture. Apple never goes for the low end. If Apple launches a watch they will go for the high end, where the quality and profits are and they will piss a lot of people, kicking some out of business, as soon as they start selling their products. Apple always gets the majority of the money a market has, in all categories they are since 2001. Name a category and they are eating almost all the money (mp4 players, smartphones, tablets, laptops, desktops, etc. - every category)

High End? Some watches sell for $50,000- 350,000 USD.
Some cost more than an Aston Martin Vanquish; more than a Porsche 918 Spyder; more than a Buggatti Veyron. That, to me is "high end."

It think you get the picture of where I am going here.. NO way on this green earth will Apple ever get into the "high end" watch manufacturing.

It is like saying they can make 760 BHP exotic super cars.

 

[882188]

Dear Watchmakers,

A paradigm shift is coming. If you keep doing things the way you always have done them, you will be marginalized. Think of Palm and Blackberry phones.

And--face palm--think of the WATCH industry. In the 1960s, quartz movement was a paradigm shift for watch makers. The Swiss said, "no, thank you" and the Japanese took quartz and ran with it. It changed the whole industry. The mass market moved to away from the Swiss watches and started buying Seiko, Casio, and other Japanese watches. It's about to happen again and they don't see it.

Yeah. lol.
I can't wait for Vacheron/Patek/IWC/A.Lange to release a smart watch. Said no one ever.

This is a smart watch.

----------

high end? Some watches sell for $50,000- 350,000 usd.
Some cost more than an aston martin vanquish; more than a porsche 918 spyder; more than a buggatti veyron. That, to me is "high end."

it think you get the picture of where i am going here.. No way on this green earth will apple ever get into the "high end" watch manufacturing.

It is like saying they can make 760 bhp exotic super cars.

qft.

 

[Nord]

Well, it doesn't surprise me, how could Swiss watch retailers trust a company that purely stole the SBB Railway design clock without asking anyone ?

Watches are a national emblem in Switzerland, I completely understand their reluctance. Plus, I think a –true– watch is a more than a piece of art, it's like a jewel (and I'm not necessarily talking about expensive watches) in many aspects: mechanics, precisions, design, materials, history, durability.

I believe this smart watch business is not yet ready for the market. It's only dumm gadgets for now and have no chance of seriously competing with real mechanic watches in my sense.

 

[olowott]

a lot have been said about this iWatch

Apple for one do take their time in releasing a new product and always look for the best guys in that field - thats the beauty that separates them from others.

And they make sure its working not just a gimmick to say i did it first!

 

[apolloa]

Well, it doesn't surprise me, how could Swiss watch retailers trust a company that purely stole the SBB Railway design clock without asking anyone ?

Watches are a national emblem in Switzerland, I completely understand their reluctance. Plus, I think a –true– watch is a more than a piece of art, it's like a jewel (and I'm not necessarily talking about expensive watches) in many aspects: mechanics, precisions, design, materials, history, durability.

I believe this smart watch business is not yet ready for the market. It's only dumm gadgets for now and have no chance of seriously competing with real mechanic watches in my sense.

Ah good find, I forgot Apple STOLE that one, so funny considering the other thread on the front page.

 

[Rogifan]

Ah good find, I forgot Apple STOLE that one, so funny considering the other thread on the front page.

Ah, maybe that's why Forstall was fired.

 

[everything-i]

I hope you are joking; right?
Swatch Group Brands :
Prestige and Luxury Range: Breguet, Harry Winston, Blancpain, Glashütte Original, Jaquet Droz, Léon Hatot, Omega.
High Range: Longines, Rado, Union Glashütte.
Middle Range: Tissot, Balmain, Certina, Mido, Hamilton; Calvin Klein watches + jewelry.
Basic Range: Swatch, Flik Flak.

Hublot currently makes the most expensive watch in the world at $5 million.

Real watch buyers are different that the iWatch crowd.
I own *LOTS* of watches, a significant number of them manual wind or automatic. I'm not interested in giving up my real watches for some iWatch or Galaxy Gear junk.

I don't want to sit my watch on a charger to have it last for 2-7 days.
Either I wind it or it better last a year or more.

Those are gadgets and not watches.

Yes I was joking but as you say swiss watch makers have nothing to fear from these smart watches as they are a gadget not watch. Hublot is a lot of marketing though for what they are IMO but that is a different horological argument.

 

[apolloa]

Ah, maybe that's why Forstall was fired.

haha, I reckon so.

I have to say though, perhaps people are looking at this in the wrong way, what if Apple ignore the smartwatch idea and instead focus on the smart band idea like some of the mock up's seen? That way these people with nice watches, love my Tissot, or just use their smart phones would be more inclined to buy one, have it monitor their health etc as well as give alerts.

I mean I do believe the Nike Fuel Band has been incredibly popular and created a new market, or made one much bigger. If Apple could compete in that, they could be on to a winner, and even more so if they didn't need a phone app too.

Just a thought.

 

[constantsnags!]

Let's see - continue to live in Switzerland, one of the most privileged nations on earth, with European levels of vacation entitlement, employment security, and healthcare provision...or move to California and get 2 weeks off a year if you're lucky, in a car choked, broke state.

Let me think about it.

 

[dudemac]

Interesting

I would be interested to know what Apple would gain from hiring/partnering with high-end watch makers. Hiring a Horologist it might make sense if they were designing a really complicated mechanical watch, but they seem to have all the talent they need to make the miniature electronics needed to power the watch. Aesthetics aside, there does not seem much that they would gain, other than acceptance from a partnership.

Now for the real question. The popularity of this device will be very dependent on a few things. 1. People are pretty accustom to not wearing a watch. So it needs to add something compelling. Seeing who's calling or changing your music is not in my opinion a compelling argument.
2. If you wear a watch now, why? And is there anything that this could add that would make it worth while. As for myself, I like mechanical watches because of the complexity associated with creating them. And they are one of the few precision instruments that you can buy that will last more than a few years. So can an electronic device bridge this gap. Is it enough to convince people to buy this more often? At this point I would say no. Watches are not bought yearly. Will we need a new one when we get a different phone.
3. Could this eliminate the need to carry the phone? This would be a very compelling reason.
4. Battery life. This should employ a similarly "kinetic" type charging system that way you won't have to worry about if you forgot to take it off and now its dead.
5. Do you have to touch it to read it. If you do then this will be a none starter for many as it lacks any convenience over touching your phone.

I have yet to see anyone of the above items be met in any of the competing platforms.

 

[powers74]

... macbook pro's are more expensive. A 15" starting at 2 grand is not in line with pc's. I like apple stuff but most of it is more expensive and not just by a slight amount.

Something else. The world is not all the US and for example here in Mexico an iphone 5s is about 825.00 US. Laptops have even more than 200.00 of a price increase over the US. The iphone is the most expensive not even adding in the expandable memory of the androids. I'm not saying it's not worth it, just that apple IS more expensive on most stuff, it's ridiculous to not admit it.

Ok, I guess the pricing in different countries is different.

As for the 15 inch Mac Pro. Are you just comparing it to a regular 15 inch labtop from Dell? Or are you trying to match specs including display res, weight, thickness, battery life and build quality. Because all the high end 15 inches cost around that price range.

Apple is more expensive but they also provide a higher quality. Some people here seems to thing that every other vendor is selling things at cost and only Apple is charging a premium.

Haven't done it in a while, but yes, once you start spec'ing out the PC's the pricing becomes very competitive. Not only are the specs and hardware on Apple gear top notch, but you have to remember the software. iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, brilliantly synced Mail, Calendar & Address Book, Maps & on & on. Once you start trying to get a Dell to do what an MBP does out of the box, the premium starts to make a little more sense.

haha, I reckon so.

I have to say though, perhaps people are looking at this in the wrong way, what if Apple ignore the smartwatch idea and instead focus on the smart band idea like some of the mock up's seen? That way these people with nice watches, love my Tissot, or just use their smart phones would be more inclined to buy one, have it monitor their health etc as well as give alerts.

I mean I do believe the Nike Fuel Band has been incredibly popular and created a new market, or made one much bigger. If Apple could compete in that, they could be on to a winner, and even more so if they didn't need a phone app too.

Just a thought.

These are the guys that made an MP3 player with no buttons (which I have and love), so I wouldn't rule anything out, including a band with no screen.