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T-Minus (3) Days Until VEGA!!
- Thread starter fate0311
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AMD won't say, we don't know. But they have indicated enough to know that it's a completely different project from Vega. Exactly what it means architecturally we'll probably find out over the next six months. Navi is more like Vega type performance at Polaris prices, and more aimed at gaming, whereas Vega seems to have been more focused on compute performance and pro applications. The Vega 7nm that's just being released can be thought of as "Vega 2" if you want, but Navi will be a new design.
Does that mean Vega 1 is Polaris 2 and Fiji 3? Navi will be GCN6 most likely, but I don't expect it to be very similar to Vega otherwise.
fokmik
Suspended
If Apple didn't rethink the thermals inside , since this is still 14nm,and you want to work your laptop for at least 2-3 years..i would avoid this Vega...
With my first i9+560X i was getting above 90C always under load/work, and i gave up and bought the i7 2.2+555X and now i have an around 82C
So i bet the i9+vega will burn this laptop from inside out IF Apple will not make something with the cooling
With my first i9+560X i was getting above 90C always under load/work, and i gave up and bought the i7 2.2+555X and now i have an around 82C
So i bet the i9+vega will burn this laptop from inside out IF Apple will not make something with the cooling
maflynn
macrumors Broadwell
I don't follow GPU technology, so Apple may have been waiting for AMD to finalize the GPU, but I hope the time from initial release of the MBP to this November was used to re-engineer the thermal management. I kind of doubt it, and the i9 runs too hot as it is, throw in a more powerful GPU and any possible benefits will be mitigated by throttling.
But, but, it will have the same TDP 😉 Apple says it will be 60% more power efficient than mobile Polaris. Mops the floor with everything Nvidia has, as is tradition 😉
AMD says Navi will be 25% more power efficient than Vega. One has to wonder, why don’t they just use the miraculous mobile Vega scaled up instead of going through all the hassle of die shrink and new architecture.
Whats your point? 90C under load is perfectly fine. Its a perfectly safe operating temperature for the components. I've worked on Apple laptop for over 10 years now and all of then ran hot under load. The 2018 model doesn't run any hotter than any before — it might get hotter faster though (I have recorded over 80Watts CPU power draw occasionally). Thats the tradeoff off packing powerful hardware into a thin and light laptop. But this irrational fear of high operating temperatures is silly.
Vega is more power efficient than Polaris, so I wouldn't bet on the Vega models actually running hotter.
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Because mobile Vega isn't miraculous, and it scales pretty much the same as the desktop chips, i.e. not amazingly. However, the desktop chips also run super cool and quite fast when you tune them. AMD effectively overclocked the Vega at launch to compete with Pascal, and then also had to overvolt it. When you get out of the sweet spot it's an exponential scale, so the Vega cards ended up running hot, when in fact the architecture itself is very power efficient. It just needs to run at lower frequencies. But guess what runs at lower frequencies anyway? Yes exactly, mobile GPU's.
Sweet for sure, but I liked when the top spec was like $3k, maybe $3200...this will probably push the top spec from like $7k to $8k.
Granted a 4TB SSD is absurd and like a third of that cost, but still. Even if you limit the SSD to 1TB, and load the other stuff up, you're close to $4k, even without a graphics option.
Don't get me wrong I'm glad to see it on offer, but prices have gone stratospheric across Apple since the release of the iPhone X.
I mean... Apple have had 24 months since the launch of this generation to rethink thermals. If they haven't done so yet, I frankly don't think they give a flip's flip. They must have been waiting for AMD to finish the mobile chip though. I was expecting it to be ready sooner, but apparently it wasn't. But knowing it was coming, being such a perfect fit for MBP, and the 2018 models launching without it, it seemed pretty obvious that a Vega option was somewhat likely to happen later in the year. I don't quite understand why people are so surprised about it now, running around in circles screaming as if nobody knew it was coming.
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It's not just Apple though. Nvidia are doing the same thing with their RTX series. They add a few hundred $$'s to the price of equivalent performance cards, and then they cut supply of old cards. Intel are doing something similar, where they're just adding price without adding value. And why? Because they can. Because the financial system is set up to encourage businesses to seek monopolies and then exploit customers as much as they can. Bending and breaking laws if necessary, as long as they can get away with it.
The thing is, it is supposed to run at 1300MHz, which is Vega 56 territory and just slightly higher than its ‘sweet spot’ (where power/performance ratio is still kind of linear) of 1250MHz. And we are told we’re going to get about 35%~40% of Vega 56 performance while consuming 16% of its power requirements. Am I really the only one who thinks this doesn’t add up?
Any word on memory clocks? Vega gains quite a lot from overclocking the memory, while not really consuming any more power. It's also possible that they have built it on an updated process from the original launch, but true to style are comparing to launch day Vega 56 to make it look as good as possible.
I wouldn't necessarily read too much into it until it actually gets into the hands of reviewers. Hmm now I kinda wish I could get hold of a review sample myself.
But hey, 40% of Vega 56... that puts it in.... RX 560 territory. Which is what you'd think it already has? Something's not right here. Or are the mobile 560 chips that much slower?
Vega 56 boost is 1470Mhz, good 15% higher. Don't forget that Vega 12 will be die thinned and also the overall configuration of units will be slightly different.
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Anandtech says that this will be 1024-bit HBM2@1.5Gbps, resulting in 192GB/s bandwidth. Not bad for a small GPU... 🙂
True, however to get there you have to use ‘high performance’ bios or whatever the OEM calls it. Almost all benchmarks that can be found are made using ‘balanced’ bios which usually tops at 1300. At 1450 MHz Vega 56 efficiency goes down the drain. Those cards have two bioses that can be selected by a switch on the card.
Ma2k5
macrumors 68030
I kind of lost trust in Apple's "testing". Too many issues, heck we have a thread showing that three years on, the keyboard is stil prone to failure.
Will any of us really be surprised if week 1 we need some emergency patch to fix the vega dGPU issues - or if there is another GPUgate? I am not saying these will happen or even are likely, but it is telling that you are no longer surprised if they did happen. The kind of attitude I have with say a cheap Acer product.
Out of curiousity, why do you think they'll up the price. According to the 9to5mac article, if I remember correctly, this would be a stock option on the higher end MBP.
https://9to5mac.com/2018/10/30/macbook-pro-gpu-update-next-month/
Fact that they refer to it as an option and mention pricing, it doesn't sound like it will be the default on higher end models.
koyoot
macrumors 603
How would it make good room heater if it will have the same TDP as Radeon Pro 560X(35W), because of the 85W PSU power limit?
From the ISA point of view its the same GCN. From the GFX point of view - it is different family of GPUs(Vega is GFX9, Navi is GFX10).
ilikewhey
macrumors 68040
it's not silly its knowing when too much heat is too much,
90c for cpu is fine but there are mirages of other components around the cpu, i for one don't want to put that much thermal in a laptop not to mention its uncomfortable using the device when its that hot.
i'm one of these that keeps m device for more than 5 years + so stressing the components like that definitely shortens life span
koyoot
macrumors 603
Im sorry, but it is not fine, if you want your computer to live long enough.
Holy hell. 80W one of PL states... that thing is power thirsty, as hell...